Auburn expects basketball program to receive Notice of Allegations from NCAA

[Squonk too]

https://www.al.com/auburn/2019/07/auburn-expects-basketball-program-to-receive-ncaa-penalties.html

Very long, because it contains the entire affidavit Auburn filed in court. It's all about Assistant Coach Chuck Pearson's payments to two players. Pearson was sentenced to no prison time and 200 hours of community service.

"In a victim impact statement that Auburn University filed to the Manhattan federal court last week, it stated that it expected to receive a formal Notice of Allegations form [sic] the NCAA."

 

[ufo33]

Likely more schools to follow.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Likely more schools to follow.

Nobody that matters.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Nobody that matters.

UofL will likely be another one. Probably Arizona too. They kind of matter.

 

[76-1]

https://www.al.com/auburn/2019/07/auburn-expects-basketball-program-to-receive-ncaa-penalties.html

Very long, because it contains the entire affidavit Auburn filed in court. It's all about Assistant Coach Chuck Pearson's payments to two players. Pearson was sentenced to no prison time and 200 hours of community service.

"In a victim impact statement that Auburn University filed to the Manhattan federal court last week, it stated that it expected to receive a formal Notice of Allegations form [sic] the NCAA."

Auburn has been cheating pretty much forever...

They were setting up full ride academic scholarships for key recruits girlfriends going all the way back to the early "70's"...

I don't expect they'll ever change. If f they expect to stay in the upper third of SEC basketball and football they really don't have a choice.

It's an institutional thing in the SEC and most likely throughout the country.

 

[ufo33]

Auburn has been cheating pretty much forever...

They were setting up full ride academic scholarships for key recruits girlfriends going all the way back to the early "70's"...

I don't expect they'll ever change. If f they expect to stay in the upper third of SEC basketball and football they really don't have a choice.

It's an institutional thing in the SEC and most likely throughout the country.

SEC = Somewhere Everybody Cheats

 

[SIhoosier26]

UofL will likely be another one. Probably Arizona too. They kind of matter.

I will acknowledge it when it actually happens, to this point the NCAA has been completely biased when handing out sanctions. I mean look what North Carolina got away with? They got off scott free on their way to another title.

The NCAA are a bunch of pu**ys.

 

[PranksterMary]

I will acknowledge it when it actually happens, to this point the NCAA has been completely biased when handing out sanctions. I mean look what North Carolina got away with? They got off scott free on their way to another title.

The NCAA are a bunch of pu**ys.

UNC didn’t get punished because they didn’t violate ncaa rules.

 

[SIhoosier26]

UNC didn’t get punished because they didn’t violate ncaa rules.

It’s not a rule to not have a fake class (that students didn’t have to attend) largely for athletes to help recruiting? A few of their former players were even admitting to it.



GTFOHWTS North Carolina should’ve been buried. The fact that they weren’t makes any sanctions the NCAA hands out going forward almost meaningless.

 

[PranksterMary]

It’s not a rule to not have a fake class (that students didn’t have to attend) largely for athletes to help recruiting? A few of their former players were even admitting to it.



GTFOHWTS North Carolina should’ve been buried. The fact that they weren’t makes any sanctions the NCAA hands out going forward almost meaningless.

You probably should familiarize yourself with both the rules, as well as what UNC actually did, before you arrive at erroneous conclusions.

 

[SIhoosier26]

You probably should familiarize yourself with both the rules, as well as what UNC actually did, before you arrive at erroneous conclusions.

Oh I’ve read up on it but go ahead and enlighten me, what did North Carolina “actually” do?

 

[Squonk too]

It’s not a rule to not have a fake class (that students didn’t have to attend) largely for athletes to help recruiting? A few of their former players were even admitting to it.



GTFOHWTS North Carolina should’ve been buried. The fact that they weren’t makes any sanctions the NCAA hands out going forward almost meaningless.

Timeline: Here's what happened during the NCAA investigation of North Carolina
https://www.cbssports.com/g00/colle...ing-the-ncaa-investigation-of-north-carolina/

tl;dr: UNC got off on a technicality: not only athletes were using the fake classes. This investigation featured three Notices of Allegations and took years. In the end NCAA had to admit they had no jurisdiction, and that their bylaws were not violated.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Timeline: Here's what happened during the NCAA investigation of North Carolina
https://www.cbssports.com/g00/colle...ing-the-ncaa-investigation-of-north-carolina/

tl;dr: UNC got off on a technicality: not only athletes were using the fake classes. This investigation featured three Notices of Allegations and took years. In the end NCAA had to admit they had no jurisdiction, and that their bylaws were not violated.

So there was a loophole created by North Carolina themselves.



The NCAA are pu**ys that will never do anything major to any programs of note.

 

[PranksterMary]

Oh I’ve read up on it but go ahead and enlighten me, what did North Carolina “actually” do?

Their academics c programs were designed for and made available to the entire student body, with over half the enrollment in n most classes comprised of non-athletes. Do some research.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I will acknowledge it when it actually happens, to this point the NCAA has been completely biased when handing out sanctions. I mean look what North Carolina got away with? They got off scott free on their way to another title.

The NCAA are a bunch of pu**ys.

Because NC didn’t actually violate any NCAA rules. Don’t have to like that, but it’s true. These are actual rule violations and if UofL and Arizona don’t also receive notice I’ll be very surprised.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Because NC didn’t actually violate any NCAA rules. Don’t have to like that, but it’s true. These are actual rule violations and if UofL and Arizona don’t also receive notice I’ll be very surprised.

There’s been rumors about Arizona for over a year, what’s come of it? Absolutely nothing, I’ll believe it when I see it. Either way Arizona isn’t really one of the main protected programs.

Programs like Duke could buy the top 10 recruits in the country, 5 starters, 5 bench players, and the NCAA wouldn’t bat an eye. It’s not an even playing field, and all they NCAA cares about is their money. F*ck em.

 

[T.M.P.]

There’s been rumors about Arizona for over a year, what’s come of it? Absolutely nothing, I’ll believe it when I see it. Either way Arizona isn’t really one of the main protected programs.

Programs like Duke could buy the top 10 recruits in the country, 5 starters, 5 bench players, and the NCAA wouldn’t bat an eye. It’s not an even playing field, and all they NCAA cares about is their money. F*ck em.

Maybe nothing from the ncaa but dude went to prison today .. if you want to call it that.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawi...cle_84989810-4533-5fca-9b07-4085002979d6.html

 

[Squonk too]

There’s been rumors about Arizona for over a year, what’s come of it? Absolutely nothing, I’ll believe it when I see it. Either way Arizona isn’t really one of the main protected programs.

Programs like Duke could buy the top 10 recruits in the country, 5 starters, 5 bench players, and the NCAA wouldn’t bat an eye. It’s not an even playing field, and all they NCAA cares about is their money. F*ck em.

Re: Duke, I think you are buying into a conspiracy theory. It is far more reasonable, in my opinion anyway, that Coach Krzyżewski's cultivated record and reputation is a self-propelling phenomenon. I'd be surprised if it ever came to light that Duke buys players. Duke is a smallish institution, easier to monitor for compliance, as well as an excellent institution academically.

 

[hoosierhat]

Re: Duke, I think you are buying into a conspiracy theory. It is far more reasonable, in my opinion anyway, that Coach Krzyżewski's cultivated record and reputation is a self-propelling phenomenon. I'd be surprised if it ever came to light that Duke buys players. Duke is a smallish institution, easier to monitor for compliance, as well as an excellent institution academically.

In recorded phone conversations, I believe it was going to cost Kansas $100,000 and a few other considerations to get Zion. Do you think he went to Duke for free? Bagley was nailed for Jewelry?

 

[hoosierhat]

You probably should familiarize yourself with both the rules, as well as what UNC actually did, before you arrive at erroneous conclusions.

I lived in Raleigh for 8 years, back in early 2000's. The New and Observer constantly did stories about the rules that were being destroyed by UNC. It would always get buried. A lot of high powered judges and lawyers came out of that school. See if you can find out anything about Joseph Forte and his moms $80,000 dollar a year job, answering a dead phone. This was a factual story that was reported, then swept under the rug. Then it disappeared. A lot of protecting Dean Smith went on back then. Couldn't have Father Dean's name besmirched.
Dan D talked about knowing someone on Phi Slamma Jamma, who told him the NCAA would call ahead and tell Houston that they would be there ahead of time. Guy Lewis would tell Clyde Drexler and the boys to park their high priced luxury cars across the street, in a parking garage. He would also tell them they weren't allowed to wear their fur coats and jewelry to practice, like they apparently did on a regular basis.
If IU had not self reported, to get rid of Sampson, none of that insignificant, trivial nonsense that it self imposed on itself, would have amounted to a hill of beans.
The NCAA is a sham organization. It has been said many times, "Major college X is being investigated, looks like SMU is getting the death penalty for it".

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

There’s been rumors about Arizona for over a year, what’s come of it? Absolutely nothing, I’ll believe it when I see it. Either way Arizona isn’t really one of the main protected programs.

Programs like Duke could buy the top 10 recruits in the country, 5 starters, 5 bench players, and the NCAA wouldn’t bat an eye. It’s not an even playing field, and all they NCAA cares about is their money. F*ck em.

NCAA had to wait until the trials from the FBI investigation concluded. They have and that’s why the penalty notifications have begun. There will be more, and I think UofL and Arizona will be among them.

 

[Squonk too]

From what I read, it is far more established that the shoe companies are making payments to families of players and recruits, rather than schools themselves. The schools are affiliated with a particular shoe company. I think this is where the corruption lies. This is where NCAA will have to do its heavy lifting. I am allowing for the circumstance that some coaches are more honest than others.

 

[PranksterMary]

NCAA had to wait until the trials from the FBI investigation concluded. They have and that’s why the penalty notifications have begun. There will be more, and I think UofL and Arizona will be among them.

There is no such thing as “penalty notifications”. Schools are receiving Notices of Inquiry. The NCAA notifies schools that they’re under official scrutiny, they investigate allegations, determine guilt or innocence, and only then do they render punishment (there’s an appeal process that follows, as well, for those schools that believe they’ve been wrong “convicted” or harshly punished). But punishment isn’t at the beginning of the process, it’s at the end, and only after schools have been determined to have violated the rules.

 

[Squonk too]

There is no such thing as “penalty notifications”. Schools are receiving Notices of Inquiry. The NCAA notifies schools that they’re under official scrutiny, they investigate allegations, determine guilt or innocence, and only then do they render punishment (there’s an appeal process that follows, as well, for those schools that believe they’ve been wrong “convicted” or harshly punished). But punishment isn’t at the beginning of the process, it’s at the end, and only after schools have been determined to have violated the rules.

Just a small nit: there are Notices of Inquiry, but they are followed by Notices of Allegations, if inquiry merits it.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Att6_Bylaw_19_101112.pdf

 

[PranksterMary]

Just a small nit: there are Notices of Inquiry, but they are followed by Notices of Allegations, if inquiry merits it.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Att6_Bylaw_19_101112.pdf

Thanks. Not a nit at all. Appreciate the detail.

 

[kkott]

Their academics c programs were designed for and made available to the entire student body, with over half the enrollment in n most classes comprised of non-athletes. Do some research.

That's BS... you must be a UNC fan/grad. What they did was completely and entirely wrong and probably the biggest fraud I can think of for an "institution of higher learning", especially one that used to tout it's academic prowess. It was NOT created for the entire student body, the programs were created to keep their athletes eligible. It was made available to the entire student body, but considering that athletes probably comprise less than 10% of the entire student body, the fact that they comprised a much higher percentage of these classes demonstrates who it was created for and it's intent. It was systemic cheating to keep their athletes eligible. And Roy's (and prior Coaches) "aww shucks, I didn't know" pathetic plausible deniability excuse is just that. When poor students like Rashad McCants start getting As, the bball coach BETTER know what's going on... unless he doesn't want to. The fact that there isn't a specific ruling that doesn't allow the NCAA to police that still doesn't make it less wrong. At one time, slavery and discrimination were legal too. UNC's air of superiority evaporated with this travesty. Pathetic.

 

[PranksterMary]

That's BS... you must be a UNC fan/grad. What they did was completely and entirely wrong and probably the biggest fraud I can think of for an "institution of higher learning", especially one that used to tout it's academic prowess. It was NOT created for the entire student body, the programs were created to keep their athletes eligible. It was made available to the entire student body, but considering that athletes probably comprise less than 10% of the entire student body, the fact that they comprised a much higher percentage of these classes demonstrates who it was created for and it's intent. It was systemic cheating to keep their athletes eligible. And Roy's (and prior Coaches) "aww shucks, I didn't know" pathetic plausible deniability excuse is just that. When poor students like Rashad McCants start getting As, the bball coach BETTER know what's going on... unless he doesn't want to. The fact that there isn't a specific ruling that doesn't allow the NCAA to police that still doesn't make it less wrong. At one time, slavery and discrimination were legal too. UNC's air of superiority evaporated with this travesty. Pathetic.

Divorce your emotion from it and take some time to actually read and understand what went on and how the ncaa viewed it. I get the visceral reaction that some fans have, but they didn’t violate ncaa rules, and that’s really what had to happen for the regulator to render a guilty verdict and levy punishment. Again, pay attention to the facts and think about the ripple effect of the ncaa determining the quality of academic offerings and you might have better insight into their decision.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

So there was a loophole created by North Carolina themselves.



The NCAA are pu**ys that will never do anything major to any programs of note.

A wise farmer does not slaughter his ca$h cows....(not saying it's right...just sayin')

 

[kkott]

Divorce your emotion from it and take some time to actually read and understand what went on and how the ncaa viewed it. I get the visceral reaction that some fans have, but they didn’t violate ncaa rules, and that’s really what had to happen for the regulator to render a guilty verdict and levy punishment. Again, pay attention to the facts and think about the ripple effect of the ncaa determining the quality of academic offerings and you might have better insight into their decision.

I can't divorce my emotion from it... it was an academic advisor for athletes scheming with staff to create a program to keep players eligible... and it was in place for almost 20 years I believe. And it worked to an astonishing degree. Vastly different than "an easy course from a professor who "likes" athletes" which do exist on almost all campuses. I think there were multiple players on both their most recent NC teams who were AA students.

What in this, which is one of the few you can still find that get in to specifics and includes #s, do you think is incorrect? Or, are you defending this, and please explain how? Just that it wasn't against the NCAA rules? I guess that much we can agree on.

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article144837309.html

 

[PranksterMary]

I can't divorce my emotion from it... it was an academic advisor for athletes scheming with staff to create a program to keep players eligible... and it was in place for almost 20 years I believe. And it worked to an astonishing degree. Vastly different than "an easy course from a professor who "likes" athletes" which do exist on almost all campuses. I think there were multiple players on both their most recent NC teams who were AA students.

What in this, which is one of the few you can still find that get in to specifics and includes #s, do you think is incorrect? Or, are you defending this, and please explain how? Just that it wasn't against the NCAA rules? I guess that much we can agree on.

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article144837309.html

So, if it wasn’t against NCAA rules, why should the NCAA find them guilty of rules violations (that they didn’t commit) and levy punishment for violations for which they weren’t guilty? I’m not exonerating UNC for their choice to offer exceedingly “modest” courses for some of their students, but they’re hardly alone. And do we really want to have the ncaa be the arbiter of what is and isn’t an acceptable standard of academic course work? That’s an extremely slippery for an organization that, to be kind, already has a full plate.

Anyone who attended a P5 university likely can recount a story or two of the extraordinary lengths schools went to in an effort to ensure academic eligibility. Most, if not all, were within the rules as they exist(ed), but it would strain credulity to assert that they were consistent with the academic mission of the university. And I would include IU in that list, based on first hand observations as well as experiences and first hand accounts from student athletes that I knew. It would also be the case for another P5 university I attended where athletics are every bit as prominent as they are in Bloomington.

UNC didn’t emerge from their time on the hot seat unscathed, and their decision to end the programs under scrutiny confirms their embarrassment of them. But asking the NCAA to punish them “just because” isn’t any more just. Two wrongs never make a “right”, and it wouldn’t have in this instance.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

That's BS... you must be a UNC fan/grad. What they did was completely and entirely wrong and probably the biggest fraud I can think of for an "institution of higher learning", especially one that used to tout it's academic prowess. It was NOT created for the entire student body, the programs were created to keep their athletes eligible. It was made available to the entire student body, but considering that athletes probably comprise less than 10% of the entire student body, the fact that they comprised a much higher percentage of these classes demonstrates who it was created for and it's intent. It was systemic cheating to keep their athletes eligible. And Roy's (and prior Coaches) "aww shucks, I didn't know" pathetic plausible deniability excuse is just that. When poor students like Rashad McCants start getting As, the bball coach BETTER know what's going on... unless he doesn't want to. The fact that there isn't a specific ruling that doesn't allow the NCAA to police that still doesn't make it less wrong. At one time, slavery and discrimination were legal too. UNC's air of superiority evaporated with this travesty. Pathetic.

The classes were everything you claim them to be and done for the reasons you explain. Unfortunately, they were also beyond the purview of the NCAA because UNC was smart enough to offer the classes to the genpop. UNC got away with this from an NCAA standpoint but not from a PR standpoint. All universities have pud majors that athletes flock to, but this was over the top.

 

[kkott]

So, if it wasn’t against NCAA rules, why should the NCAA find them guilty of rules violations (that they didn’t commit) and levy punishment for violations for which they weren’t guilty? I’m not exonerating UNC for their choice to offer exceedingly “modest” courses for some of their students, but they’re hardly alone. And do we really want to have the ncaa be the arbiter of what is and isn’t an acceptable standard of academic course work? That’s an extremely slippery for an organization that, to be kind, already has a full plate.

Anyone who attended a P5 university likely can recount a story or two of the extraordinary lengths schools went to in an effort to ensure academic eligibility. Most, if not all, were within the rules as they exist(ed), but it would strain credulity to assert that they were consistent with the academic mission of the university. And I would include IU in that list, based on first hand observations as well as experiences and first hand accounts from student athletes that I knew. It would also be the case for another P5 university I attended where athletics are every bit as prominent as they are in Bloomington.

UNC didn’t emerge from their time on the hot seat unscathed, and their decision to end the programs u dear scrutiny confirms their embarrassment of them. Bit asking the NCAA to punishment “just because” isn’t any more just. Two wrongs never make a “right”, and it wouldn’t have in this instance.

Who said they should punish them? I agree you can't punish them if there aren't rules that address them. All I'm saying is create those rules. It should have been, and should be a violation of NCAA rules to intentionally create courses that require less than a minimum curriculum baseline, for any academic advisor or staff member. It also should be the responsibility of coaches to police the classes their athletes are taking and report such findings, when they notice a pattern. There is 0% chance that Roy Williams didn't know that 1) Rashad McCants was a challenged student, and 2) that he was taking lots of courses in AA Studies and those were bolstering his grades. He didn't want to know. If he doesn't investigate that, then that would/should be a violation.

 

[Squonk too]

"While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called 'paper courses' offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes," Greg Sankey, the panel's chief hearing officer and commissioner of the SEC said in the report. "The panel is troubled by the university's shifting positions about whether academic fraud occurred on its campus and the credibility of the Cadwalader report, which it distanced itself from after initially supporting the findings. However, NCAA policy is clear. The NCAA defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred and, ultimately, the panel is bound to making decisions within the rules set by the membership."

 

[PranksterMary]

Who said they should punish them? I agree you can't punish them if there aren't rules that address them. All I'm saying is create those rules. It should have been, and should be a violation of NCAA rules to intentionally create courses that require less than a minimum curriculum baseline, for any academic advisor or staff member. It also should be the responsibility of coaches to police the classes their athletes are taking and report such findings, when they notice a pattern. There is 0% chance that Roy Williams didn't know that 1) Rashad McCants was a challenged student, and 2) that he was taking lots of courses in AA Studies and those were bolstering his grades. He didn't want to know. If he doesn't investigate that, then that would/should be a violation.

And I’m saying that involving the regulator in the highly subjective business of deciding what is and isn’t an acceptable standard of academics in this regard is foolish, at best. The slippery slope of what is and isn’t acceptable will be endlessly debated and “litigated”, with an unknowing and unqualified regulator in a unilateral position of power. Not sure any school wants to go there, especially when the ncaa struggles mightily to do the job in front of them.

 

[dtodd4475]

The NCAA did everything they could to punish UNC. The problem they had is they had no violations. They spent 18 million and 5 years applying pressure. UNC as a blue blood with deep pockets spent 22 million to lawyer up and defend any NCAA over reach.

The biggest problem, of many, the NCAA had was they had already on several occasions, thoroughly and effectively, argued in federal court that they have zero jurisdiction in the rigor of courses. That is a accredidation matter ( ironically one of the class action suits they defended their self successfully with included RaShad McCants).

They tried to lean on a school that did something clearly wrong, UNC had the wherewithal to hold out, dealt with the accreditation agency, and prepared the case against the NCAA if they tried to punish outside of their established jurisdiction. They would have got obliterated in court if they tried to ignore their own bylaws and numerous arguments and precedent they already set in federal court.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Just a small nit: there are Notices of Inquiry, but they are followed by Notices of Allegations, if inquiry merits it.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Att6_Bylaw_19_101112.pdf

Yep, I see I mistyped that too. Thanks.

 

[kkott]

And I’m saying that involving the regulator in the highly subjective business of deciding what is and isn’t an acceptable standard of academics in this regard is foolish, at best. The slippery slope of what is and isn’t acceptable will be endlessly debated and “litigated”, with an unknowing and unqualified regulator in a unilateral position of power. Not sure any school wants to go there, especially when the ncaa struggles mightily to do the job in front of them.

there's not much more slippery, I mean slimy, than an "academic advisor" who with accomplices, creates a curriculum that requires little to no work, no attendance and questionable standards for content or quality of work, to keep athletes eligible. That really isn't that hard to regulate or see that it's wrong. There have always been, and will always be, "easy A classes". What I'm talking about is the willful intent to create courses who's sole purpose is to give away good grades to keep athletes eligible. It blows me away how many think this is OK. Frankly it's made me believe we are heading to non academic athletes and at this point, I think it's only fair after the sham (shame!) that UNC perpetrated.

 

[hondo314]

NCAA had to wait until the trials from the FBI investigation concluded. They have and that’s why the penalty notifications have begun. There will be more, and I think UofL and Arizona will be among them.

I’m thinking KU gets got too. Self basically got caught in the stash house right next to the dope. If not for shitty FBI equipment, he probably never coaches again...

 

[PranksterMary]

there's not much more slippery, I mean slimy, than an "academic advisor" who with accomplices, creates a curriculum that requires little to no work, no attendance and questionable standards for content or quality of work, to keep athletes eligible. That really isn't that hard to regulate or see that it's wrong. There have always been, and will always be, "easy A classes". What I'm talking about is the willful intent to create courses who's sole purpose is to give away good grades to keep athletes eligible. It blows me away how many think this is OK. Frankly it's made me believe we are heading to non academic athletes and at this point, I think it's only fair after the sham (shame!) that UNC perpetrated.

Again, I would encourage you to actually read what the NCAA found.

 

[TommyCracker]

SEC = Somewhere Everybody Cheats

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