Assistant Coach Salaries

[Bucket Getter]

With another massive swing and miss in recruiting, is it fair to ask what kind of ROI Dolson is getting for Woody’s merry band of recruiting gurus?

Last info I could find is 2 years old following the incredible success of actually reaching the dance. Raises all around! $375k and associate head coach titles for Kenya and Rosemond. $225k for the new kid (and Fife replacement). No mention about his old nba buddy, Calbert, or Jordy.

Found it a bit alarming that Ya, with his deep ties to the peach tree state, is credited with the amazing haul of Banks and Newton. 😳 True game changers.

 

[Shuski]

I understand your points, but I don't consider Queen a swing and miss. He had been leaning to be close to home and where his mom wanted him to go to Maryland. The reason we were in there was because of Jalen, Renau and Liam M. The Montverde connection was not enough to overcome how we are playing and his draw to his home area. We have had a lot of swing and misses but this was another competition we unfortunately lost.

I am also not sure that I would discount Newton before he ever plays a game for the Hoosiers. I don't expect him to set the world on fire, but I believe if healthy can be a solid contributor to a good team. Coming back from injuries are never an easy thing. Glen Grunwald was number 2 player coming out of high school, and he never fully recovered from his knee injuries before his freshman season and was never the same in his career. Fortunately for him he was smart and knowledgeable becoming a decent NBA team executive.

 

[76-1]

With another massive swing and miss in recruiting, is it fair to ask what kind of ROI Dolson is getting for Woody’s merry band of recruiting gurus?

Last info I could find is 2 years old following the incredible success of actually reaching the dance. Raises all around! $375k and associate head coach titles for Kenya and Rosemond. $225k for the new kid (and Fife replacement). No mention about his old nba buddy, Calbert, or Jordy.

Found it a bit alarming that Ya, with his deep ties to the peach tree state, is credited with the amazing haul of Banks and Newton. 😳 True game changers.

Whatever they're making they're clearly overpaid.

 

[IUNorth]

I understand your points, but I don't consider Queen a swing and miss. He had been leaning to be close to home and where his mom wanted him to go to Maryland. The reason we were in there was because of Jalen, Renau and Liam M. The Montverde connection was not enough to overcome how we are playing and his draw to his home area. We have had a lot of swing and misses but this was another competition we unfortunately lost.

I am also not sure that I would discount Newton before he ever plays a game for the Hoosiers. I don't expect him to set the world on fire, but I believe if healthy can be a solid contributor to a good team. Coming back from injuries are never an easy thing. Glen Grunwald was number 2 player coming out of high school, and he never fully recovered from his knee injuries before his freshman season and was never the same in his career. Fortunately for him he was smart and knowledgeable becoming a decent NBA team executive.

I'll be surprised if Newton doesn't eventually make a full recovery. And I know I've gushed about his performance against Isaiah Collier on ESPN his senior year, a lot...but man, if he can play that dude straight up with a tore up knee... I just have a feeling he's gonna be a special player, for someone, when he does get healthy. I hope that's true for him, and I hope for us that its at IU.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I understand your points, but I don't consider Queen a swing and miss. He had been leaning to be close to home and where his mom wanted him to go to Maryland. The reason we were in there was because of Jalen, Renau and Liam M. The Montverde connection was not enough to overcome how we are playing and his draw to his home area. We have had a lot of swing and misses but this was another competition we unfortunately lost.

I am also not sure that I would discount Newton before he ever plays a game for the Hoosiers. I don't expect him to set the world on fire, but I believe if healthy can be a solid contributor to a good team. Coming back from injuries are never an easy thing. Glen Grunwald was number 2 player coming out of high school, and he never fully recovered from his knee injuries before his freshman season and was never the same in his career. Fortunately for him he was smart and knowledgeable becoming a decent NBA team executive.

I guess I’d like to see the total bill for all those trips to Florida before I’d say it wasn’t a wild swing and miss. If they honestly didn’t think they could get him, I wouldn’t think they’d have made all those trips. And maybe, just maybe, they could have focused a little bit of energy on someone (anyone) else.

I’m hesitant to discard Newton, but bringing him in this year while leaving an open scholarship, just reeks of recruiting malpractice. At least for this year. Lord help us all if he ends up having any type of career similar to Grunwald’s.

 

[IUNorth]

With another massive swing and miss in recruiting, is it fair to ask what kind of ROI Dolson is getting for Woody’s merry band of recruiting gurus?

Last info I could find is 2 years old following the incredible success of actually reaching the dance. Raises all around! $375k and associate head coach titles for Kenya and Rosemond. $225k for the new kid (and Fife replacement). No mention about his old nba buddy, Calbert, or Jordy.

Found it a bit alarming that Ya, with his deep ties to the peach tree state, is credited with the amazing haul of Banks and Newton. 😳 True game changers.

A decent amount of our recruiting successes, thus far under Woody have come in the spring.

So lets wait until June or so until this particular class is done and graded. Plenty of other recruiting issues, and basketball issues, to freak out about in the mean time.

After seeing this years team, after seeing his first two teams, I can honestly say I wasn't overly excited about getting Queen anyways, with the assumption that Reneau is gonna be back. As I think that increased the likelihood that Woody would continue to play his post focused style. Queen comes, he's gonna play a lot, if not start...alongside Reneau. We need to become quicker, more dynamic, more perimeter focused...

 

[Bucket Getter]

A decent amount of our recruiting successes, thus far under Woody have come in the spring.

So lets wait until June or so until this particular class is done and graded. Plenty of other recruiting issues, and basketball issues, to freak out about in the mean time.

After seeing this years team, after seeing his first two teams, I can honestly say I wasn't overly excited about getting Queen anyways, with the assumption that Reneau is gonna be back. As I think that increased the likelihood that Woody would continue to play his post focused style. Queen comes, he's gonna play a lot, if not start...alongside Reneau. We need to become quicker, more dynamic, more perimeter focused...

Who are the Spring guys (so far) that Woody is building a program with?

 

[IUNorth]

I guess I’d like to see the total bill for all those trips to Florida before I’d say it wasn’t a wild swing and miss. If they honestly didn’t think they could get him, I wouldn’t think they’d have made all those trips. And maybe, just maybe, they could have focused a little bit of energy on someone (anyone) else.

I’m hesitant to discard Newton, but bringing him in this year while leaving an open scholarship, just reeks of recruiting malpractice. At least for this year. Lord help us all if he ends up having any type of career similar to Grunwald’s.

For the majority of those trips, we were still trying to close McNeeley. Not sure they've went on all that many after McNeeley officially signed with IU? Maybe a couple?

Also, Montverde always has plenty of D1 level talent. And there are always coaching changes that lead to recruitments being opened up in the spring. I wouldn't worry about dollars spent on making trips to a place like Montverde. Woody and IU should continue to cultivate that relationship. I wish he had recognized earlier, and went after harder, their point guard on this years team. A guy like that completely changes our program around.

 

[IUNorth]

Who are the Spring guys (so far) that Woody is building a program with?

He's had plenty of portal guys in his 3 recruiting cycles. And he got Reneau and Bates late, I believe. Obviously I get your point, I've made the same point...that maybe signing people so late is part of his issue?

Just saying he'll likely get some more "talent" in this class. And that for various reasons, Queen choosing Maryland isn't as massive a miss as you think it is.

 

[Shuski]

I guess I’d like to see the total bill for all those trips to Florida before I’d say it wasn’t a wild swing and miss. If they honestly didn’t think they could get him, I wouldn’t think they’d have made all those trips. And maybe, just maybe, they could have focused a little bit of energy on someone (anyone) else.

I’m hesitant to discard Newton, but bringing him in this year while leaving an open scholarship, just reeks of recruiting malpractice. At least for this year. Lord help us all if he ends up having any type of career similar to Grunwald’s.

I appreciate your post and understand some of your points but sometimes you just lose out. We got Mac after it appeared he was most likely going to Kansas. I think we came close on Queen because we made him a priority. I do think we sometimes focus on too few players and they do seem to be spreading it out a little more for 25 and 26 recruits. It is never a perfect science and roster management has not been good.

As I was acquaintance/friend of Grunwald at IU his playing career did not pan out, but I bet he has made more in life than we have. Basketball does not work out for a lot of guys but those that don't make it playing basketball or in school have had a lot worse lives than him.

 

[Bucket Getter]

He's had plenty of portal guys in his 3 recruiting cycles. And he got Reneau and Bates late, I believe. Obviously I get your point, I've made the same point...that maybe signing people so late is part of his issue?

Just saying he'll likely get some more "talent" in this class. And that for various reasons, Queen choosing Maryland isn't as massive a miss as you think it is.

I’m not sure it is. I’m not sure it’s not. As always, time will tell. Maybe only for old times sake, I’d love to sign a few good high school players in the fall. You know, the time-tested way that still builds championship caliber teams. This new age smash and grab portal crap for other team’s castoffs has been an abject failure around here.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I appreciate your post and understand some of your points but sometimes you just lose out. We got Mac after it appeared he was most likely going to Kansas. I think we came close on Queen because we made him a priority. I do think we sometimes focus on too few players and they do seem to be spreading it out a little more for 25 and 26 recruits. It is never a perfect science and roster management has not been good.

As I was acquaintance/friend of Grunwald at IU his playing career did not pan out, but I bet he has made more in life than we have. Basketball does not work out for a lot of guys but those that don't make it playing basketball or in school have had a lot worse lives than him.

what years was he at IU? I remember him don't think he ever played much, don't recall him being the #2 player out of high school. He was born to soon knee injuries back then ruined careers, today he probably would have been out 6 months and came back as good as new.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I appreciate your post and understand some of your points but sometimes you just lose out. We got Mac after it appeared he was most likely going to Kansas. I think we came close on Queen because we made him a priority. I do think we sometimes focus on too few players and they do seem to be spreading it out a little more for 25 and 26 recruits. It is never a perfect science and roster management has not been good.

As I was acquaintance/friend of Grunwald at IU his playing career did not pan out, but I bet he has made more in life than we have. Basketball does not work out for a lot of guys but those that don't make it playing basketball or in school have had a lot worse lives than him.

No doubt about your GG sentiments. But damn it man, I am getting older by the minute. I want to see at least one more great season before I leave here for the great field house in the sky. We need badass players, not future executives.

 

[wi_hoosier]

With another massive swing and miss in recruiting, is it fair to ask what kind of ROI Dolson is getting for Woody’s merry band of recruiting gurus?

Last info I could find is 2 years old following the incredible success of actually reaching the dance. Raises all around! $375k and associate head coach titles for Kenya and Rosemond. $225k for the new kid (and Fife replacement). No mention about his old nba buddy, Calbert, or Jordy.

Found it a bit alarming that Ya, with his deep ties to the peach tree state, is credited with the amazing haul of Banks and Newton. 😳 True game changers.

My biggest concern with the associates is more centered around who is doing the in-game strategies and out-of-game developing... because I'm not seeing it.

 

[jaygyure]

With another massive swing and miss in recruiting, is it fair to ask what kind of ROI Dolson is getting for Woody’s merry band of recruiting gurus?

Last info I could find is 2 years old following the incredible success of actually reaching the dance. Raises all around! $375k and associate head coach titles for Kenya and Rosemond. $225k for the new kid (and Fife replacement). No mention about his old nba buddy, Calbert, or Jordy.

Found it a bit alarming that Ya, with his deep ties to the peach tree state, is credited with the amazing haul of Banks and Newton. 😳 True game changers.

I am fairly certain that Ya had some kind of connection with Kel'el Ware and was the main reason we were able to land him.

 

[Bucket Getter]

what years was he at IU? I remember him don't think he ever played much, don't recall him being the #2 player out of high school. He was born to soon knee injuries back then ruined careers, today he probably would have been out 6 months and came back as good as new.

76-81 HS All-American from Illinois. Injured before he arrived in Bloomington. Knight tried his best to play him, but it was a disaster.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I am fairly certain that Ya had some kind of connection with Kel'el Ware and was the main reason we were able to land him.

Good for him. One player (probably for one season) in 3 years on the job. Helluva gig if you can get it. Probably didn’t have anything to do with a dump truck of NIL funds.

 

[bawlmer]

I'm increasingly doubting our staff's eye for talent. Yeah, we get Monteverde guys. But they've been vetted and trained.. The only trick there is selling them on IU. Who else have they recruited who is helping us? Ware and MgBako are likely gone and all we got to see was raw potential. Sorry to be so pessimistic.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I'm increasingly doubting our staff's eye for talent. Yeah, we get Monteverde guys. But they've been vetted and trained.. The only trick there is selling them on IU. Who else have they recruited who is helping us? Ware and MgBako are likely gone and all we got to see was raw potential. Sorry to be so pessimistic.

Since we will once again be relegated to picking up scraps, here’s a year by year of the spring signees:

2023
Ware
MgBako
Walker
Sparks

2022
Bates

2021
Kopp
Geronimo?
Stewart
Durr

Hardly much in the way of program building foundation pieces.

 

[IUNorth]

I'm increasingly doubting our staff's eye for talent. Yeah, we get Monteverde guys. But they've been vetted and trained.. The only trick there is selling them on IU. Who else have they recruited who is helping us? Ware and MgBako are likely gone and all we got to see was raw potential. Sorry to be so pessimistic.

I think they've been decent identifying talent. I just don't think they've made enough of an effort to bring in high caliber guards.

They went after some really good ones, both in HS and in the portal. But its very obvious, they didn't see it as enough of a priority, or emergency, to have changed the whole identity and makeup of the team. I've been barking about it since their first few games Woody's 1st year...the style he CHOSE to play, and continues to CHOOSE to play, is holding us back. Its allowing them a false sense of security with what we need on the perimeter. And its alienating a big chunk of the higher caliber perimeter players we are going after.

I fell for it myself, argued at length with people on here that we didn't need to "reach" for guards. X and Trey were going to be one of the better backcourts in the conference. Gabe and CJ could back them up just fine...

Woody and his staff must have agreed with that, and it was a big mistake, that's still hurting us. He needs to resolve, right now, to change that. And they need to cast a wide net, and purposefully reshape their roster.

 

[bawlmer]

Since we will once again be relegated to picking up scraps, here’s a year by year of the spring signees:

2023
Ware
MgBako
Walker
Sparks

2022
Bates

2021
Kopp
Geronimo?
Stewart
Durr

Hardly much in the way of program building foundation pieces.

Add Reneau, who may be the lone "program" guy.

My guess is we'll bring in someone through the portal to play in front of Cupps and he'll be the same player a year from now that he is today.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I think they've been decent identifying talent. I just don't think they've made enough of an effort to bring in high caliber guards.

They went after some really good ones, both in HS and in the portal. But its very obvious, they didn't see it as enough of a priority, or emergency, to have changed the whole identity and makeup of the team. I've been barking about it since their first few games Woody's 1st year...the style he CHOSE to play, and continues to CHOOSE to play, is holding us back. Its allowing them a false sense of security with what we need on the perimeter. And its alienating a big chunk of the higher caliber perimeter players we are going after.

I fell for it myself, argued at length with people on here that we didn't need to "reach" for guards. X and Trey were going to be one of the better backcourts in the conference. Gabe and CJ could back them up just fine...

Woody and his staff must have agreed with that, and it was a big mistake, that's still hurting us. He needs to resolve, right now, to change that. And they need to cast a wide net, and purposefully reshape their roster.

No offense North, but you’re just a dude on a message board like the rest of us. I’d sure as hell like to think Woody and his 6 assistants were paying attention in workouts and practices enough to know full damn well they needed additional help. If they truly are as surprised at the results as you are, we’ve got some very wealthy dudes in sneakers who don’t know shinola from 3rd base.

 

[bawlmer]

I think they've been decent identifying talent. I just don't think they've made enough of an effort to bring in high caliber guards.

They went after some really good ones, both in HS and in the portal. But its very obvious, they didn't see it as enough of a priority, or emergency, to have changed the whole identity and makeup of the team. I've been barking about it since their first few games Woody's 1st year...the style he CHOSE to play, and continues to CHOOSE to play, is holding us back. Its allowing them a false sense of security with what we need on the perimeter. And its alienating a big chunk of the higher caliber perimeter players we are going after.

I fell for it myself, argued at length with people on here that we didn't need to "reach" for guards. X and Trey were going to be one of the better backcourts in the conference. Gabe and CJ could back them up just fine...

Woody and his staff must have agreed with that, and it was a big mistake, that's still hurting us. He needs to resolve, right now, to change that. And they need to cast a wide net, and purposefully reshape their roster.

I'm talking mostly about our bench. That's where you grow your own talent. I was one of the few not stressing using the bench so much early in the season, even when it made games closer than they could have been. You want to see growth from putting guys in a position where they have to generate offense.

But we don't seem to have gotten any benefit. Either we have inferior talent or we aren't helping guys to improve. I actually think it's more the latter, but either is an indictment of the staff. Is there anyone in 3 years other than Malik (who should have been playing in front of Race at the end of last season) who has developed into a role player?

 

[Shuski]

I appreciate your post and understand some of your points but sometimes you just lose out. We got Mac after it appeared he was most likely going to Kansas. I think we came close on Queen because we made him a priority. I do think we sometimes focus on too few players and they do seem to be spreading it out a little more for 25 and 26 recruits. It is never a perfect science and roster management has not been good.

As I was acquaintance/friend of Grunwald at IU his playing career did not pan out, but I bet he has made more in life than we have. Basketball does not work out for a lot of guys but those that don't make it playing basketball or in school have had a lot worse lives than hi

what years was he at IU? I remember him don't think he ever played much, don't reca.ll him being the #2 player out of high school. He was born to soon knee injuries back then ruined careers, today he probably would have been out 6 months and came back as good as new.

He was a freshman in 1976 same as me. Bill Cartwright was number 1. Yes, you are right about knees. I had ACL reconstruction in 1987 and was back playing softball in 4 months and brace but no comparison to power 5 basketball. No zippers just orthoscopic unlike some of my friends' knees.

 

[Shuski]

No doubt about your GG sentiments. But damn it man, I am getting older by the minute. I want to see at least one more great season before I leave here for the great field house in the sky. We need badass players, not future executives.

I am with you Bucket Getter; I am old too and was 9 when IU went Rose Bowl and 17 when Knight's IU team went undefeated. I always said if IU ever made it to the Rose Bowl, I would find a way to go. The same with a basketball national championship game. Was planning on 2012 but Anthony Davis, Kentucky and the refs (Zeller, Oladipo cheap fouls called) I was at that game and still haunts me some.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I am fairly certain that Ya had some kind of connection with Kel'el Ware and was the main reason we were able to land him.

Our primary Assistants are recruiters. We need recruiters but we also need X and O guys.

 

[T.M.P.]

No offense North, but you’re just a dude on a message board like the rest of us. I’d sure as hell like to think Woody and his 6 assistants were paying attention in workouts and practices enough to know full damn well they needed additional help.

You don't know how well or poorly they performed in practices and workouts to make that determination.

 

[Bucket Getter]

You don't know how well or poorly they performed in practices and workouts to make that determination.

So you believe they used up all the good stuff before the season got here?

 

[Bucket Getter]

Our primary Assistants are recruiters. We need recruiters but we also need X and O guys.

Gotta tip your cap then. They’re doing a helluva job. Can’t wait to see their haul for next year. Did they leave anything for Kansas, Kentucky, and Duke?

 

[bawlmer]

Our primary Assistants are recruiters. We need recruiters but we also need X and O guys.

I'm questioning whether our recruiters (can't quibble with the Montverde connection) are able to spot the HS guy who is going to become a role player to keep things solid while the young stars find their way. We don't have that now.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I'm questioning whether our recruiters (can't quibble with the Montverde connection) are able to spot the HS guy who is going to become a role player to keep things solid while the young stars find their way. We don't have that now.

They are not looking for that now.

 

[wi_hoosier]

I'm questioning whether our recruiters (can't quibble with the Montverde connection) are able to spot the HS guy who is going to become a role player to keep things solid while the young stars find their way. We don't have that now.

I feel like it is not about spotting HS players that are going to become role players... and more about, having a freaking team building plan. I mean, what is the plan with our recruiting? Just trying to sing as many 5* as possible regardless of positions/roles???

I don't like it, but Purdue, Bucky and Sparty all seem to know who they are and what players they need to be successful. Which is why they are consistently successful.

 

[jaygyure]

Our primary Assistants are recruiters. We need recruiters but we also need X and O guys.

It's kind of interesting to me. Woodson being head coach with YA, Brian Walsh, & Kenya as the assistants. We then have Armond Hill, Calbert Cheaney, Jordan Hulls with Randy Wittman also around. That's 8 coaches for 12 scholarship players

 

[IUNorth]

No offense North, but you’re just a dude on a message board like the rest of us. I’d sure as hell like to think Woody and his 6 assistants were paying attention in workouts and practices enough to know full damn well they needed additional help. If they truly are as surprised at the results as you are, we’ve got some very wealthy dudes in sneakers who don’t know shinola from 3rd base.

None taken...

And I have no clue what they were thinking. But they didn't bring in ANY rotation level portal guards.

To say they didn't go after ANY guards in the portal wouldn't be factual. But the guards they did go after, were all a specific type...bigger, shooter/scorers, that weren't necessarily known as PGs or primary ball handler/playmakers.

Doesn't take too much of a leap to think maybe that's because they thought they were good with X, Trey, and Gabe...

Dalton Knecht, quite obviously, makes this IU team better. But we'd still have issues getting an offense going, guarding other teams ball handlers, etc... without a healthy "good X".

Since we didn't go after anyone to cover that potential vulnerability...yeah, I think its possible our coaching staff didn't think it was necessary. And as I said, I fell for that, and didn't think it was either. And I was wrong, as they were if they were thinking that way.

 

[bawlmer]

None taken...

And I have no clue what they were thinking. But they didn't bring in ANY rotation level portal guards.

To say they didn't go after ANY guards in the portal wouldn't be factual. But the guards they did go after, were all a specific type...bigger, shooter/scorers, that weren't necessarily known as PGs or primary ball handler/playmakers.

Doesn't take too much of a leap to think maybe that's because they thought they were good with X, Trey, and Gabe...

Dalton Knecht, quite obviously, makes this IU team better. But we'd still have issues getting an offense going, guarding other teams ball handlers, etc... without a healthy "good X".

Since we didn't go after anyone to cover that potential vulnerability...yeah, I think its possible our coaching staff didn't think it was necessary. And as I said, I fell for that, and didn't think it was either. And I was wrong, as they were if they were thinking that way.

My assumption is they thought Cupps would be a serviceable back-up for X. Many on here were saying the same.

Frankly, after watching him I'm not sure what they saw on the offensive side. It's telling that his rate of fouls drawn is the lowest on the team. He puts zero pressure on the opposing defense. His defense is not bad and that's probably why he starts.

I can understand and even support not bringing portal guys in front of your HS recruits. But if you go that route, you have to have a strong player development component to get guys ready fast. That ain't happening at IU.

 

[CriticArisen]

No doubt about your GG sentiments. But damn it man, I am getting older by the minute. I want to see at least one more great season before I leave here for the great field house in the sky. We need badass players, not future executives.

Then it might be wise to plan to have your ashes spread on the grounds of Assembly Hall. I don’t think they will lease actual grave sites.

 

[IUNorth]

My assumption is they thought Cupps would be a serviceable back-up for X. Many on here were saying the same.

Frankly, after watching him I'm not sure what they saw on the offensive side. It's telling that his rate of fouls drawn is the lowest on the team. He puts zero pressure on the opposing defense. His defense is not bad and that's probably why he starts.

I can understand and even support not bringing portal guys in front of your HS recruits. But if you go that route, you have to have a strong player development component to get guys ready fast. That ain't happening at IU.

I don't really care whether he was brought in as a starter or back up guy. When Cupps is on the court, he needs to be surrounded by good, high level guys...for him to reach his full potential. Actually a case could be made that he's better in the starter role, than he is/was as a bench guy. I know there are lineups analytics that back this up a little bit.

Last night, you could see that he's high level with his vision, and his ability to move the ball around. He made a handful of incredible one handed push/skip passes. If the other end of those passes were teammates more comfortable and capable of making plays, I think more people would see Cupps value.

Defensively...he's small. Its always going to be somewhat of an issue. But positionally he's pretty good. And he usually forces his man to hit contested shots. But like the offense, when Cupps is surrounded by more capable defenders, that will help him. And he'll be more free to be "pesky", knowing if that causes him to get beat every now and then, his teammates will be more able to help him out.

He's not as good as Smith, and he's a very different player, but I think on a team like Purdue, Cupps would look 10x better than he does for IU.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I don't really care whether he was brought in as a starter or back up guy. When Cupps is on the court, he needs to be surrounded by good, high level guys...for him to reach his full potential. Actually a case could be made that he's better in the starter role, than he is/was as a bench guy. I know there are lineups analytics that back this up a little bit.

Last night, you could see that he's high level with his vision, and his ability to move the ball around. He made a handful of incredible one handed push/skip passes. If the other end of those passes were teammates more comfortable and capable of making plays, I think more people would see Cupps value.

Defensively...he's small. Its always going to be somewhat of an issue. But positionally he's pretty good. And he usually forces his man to hit contested shots. But like the offense, when Cupps is surrounded by more capable defenders, that will help him. And he'll be more free to be "pesky", knowing if that causes him to get beat every now and then, his teammates will be more able to help him out.

He's not as good as Smith, and he's a very different player, but I think on a team like Purdue, Cupps would look 10x better than he does for IU.

I’m sorry to say this, but I just don’t see it. To me, he’s Jordy Hulls with a broken shot. Everyone says he’s a better defender than Smith. I say bullshit. He tries, but he’s too little and too weak. Gets bounced around like a rag doll. I hope I’m wrong and he turns into a serviceable 4 year player. But he’s sure not right now.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

It's kind of interesting to me. Woodson being head coach with YA, Brian Walsh, & Kenya as the assistants. We then have Armond Hill, Calbert Cheaney, Jordan Hulls with Randy Wittman also around. That's 8 coaches for 12 scholarship players

I think we are four short

 

[IUNorth]

I’m sorry to say this, but I just don’t see it. To me, he’s Jordy Hulls with a broken shot. Everyone says he’s a better defender than Smith. I say bullshit. He tries, but he’s too little and too weak. Gets bounced around like a rag doll. I hope I’m wrong and he turns into a serviceable 4 year player. But he’s sure not right now.

You could be right. And we may never get to see Gabe playing with an elite team surrounding him, so maybe we won't ever know if I'm right or not?

He's A LOT better defender than Hulls was. He's faster/quicker than Hulls was. He's not nearly as good a shooter, spot up or off the dribble than Hulls was. But Hulls is also one of the better shooters in IU's history. I get the comp, they kinda look similar...but that's a tough one.

But since you brought Hulls up, I'd bet my F150 that Cupps would look really, really good passing the ball to Victor Olidipo, Christian Watford, and Cody Zeller. And having those guys cover him with helpside defense.