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Amtrak Cascades high speed train derails on 1st day of service

dahldc said:
That's laughable. No manslaughter. Justice will be served in the civil suits.

Signed,

Co Hoosier
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Obstruction on the tracks is a suspected cause. If that was deliberate, I think murder is on the table.

Civil suits will provide substantial justice. I don’t understand your idiotic attempted joke. What is your issue with civil suits?
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Obstruction on the tracks is a suspected cause. If that was deliberate, I think murder is on the table.

Civil suits will provide substantial justice. I don’t understand your idiotic attempted joke. What is your issue with civil suits?
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If it's that easy to derail a train by placing obstructions on the tracks, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more than it does.

Obviously, passenger rail is not nearly as common here as it is in other parts of the world. What steps are taken to ensure that the track is free of obstructions?
 
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crazed_hoosier2 said:
If it's that easy to derail a train by placing obstructions on the tracks, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more than it does.

Obviously, passenger rail is not nearly as common here as it is in other parts of the world. What steps are taken to ensure that the track is free of obstructions?
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No, it isn’t that easy to derail a train with obstructions. If the obstruction cause is true, the obstruction would have been substantial and, in my view, would have taken deliberate human intervention.

I have no doubt that line was tested with train traffic for months, and at the maximum permitted speeds. There were no switches or grade crossings in the area of the derailment.

It’s suspicious.
 
i'vegotwinners said:
perhaps it hit an iceberg.
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What's with all the jokes? 6 dead, dozens have serious injuries and their lives are altered forever. Some will never again be able to live as they have lived. Others will never be able to earn a living. Others may only be able to pee and crap in a bag. You'd rather make up sympathy for other victims who have suffered nothing but hurt feelings.

Some liberals on this board can't even be liberal when there are real victims. You are just pathetic.
 
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Sope Creek said:
NPR had someone on tonight who said that excessive speed going into the curve where the accident occurred was a significant contributing factor.
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I saw that from another source awhile ago. Something like around 80 in a 30 mph curve. That is incredible. I can't imagine how the train crew would not be better trained.

The initial reports was that this was a new line. It turns out that it is apparently only new ballast, ties, and rails, on an old freight line. Not exactly built for high speed.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
I saw that from another source awhile ago. Something like around 80 in a 30 mph curve. That is incredible. I can't imagine how the train crew would not be better trained.

The initial reports was that this was a new line. It turns out that it is apparently only new ballast, ties, and rails, on an old freight line. Not exactly built for high speed.
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Since a crash in 1993 or so, Amtrack has been touting Positive Train Control that would force trains slower even if crews were irresponsible. But it still isn't in use. Money is rumored to be the problem.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Since a crash in 1993 or so, Amtrack has been touting Positive Train Control that would force trains slower even if crews were irresponsible. But it still isn't in use. Money is rumored to be the problem.
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Positive Train Control is part of new commuter rail line from downtown Denver to Denver International Airport. The Line opened in April of 2016. It has never worked the way it was supposed to. One systems glitch after another. PTC seems to be a great theory, but it is a very high maintenance apparatus. All the sensors, relays, microchips, controlllers and all the rest need to be in top shape. Nobody has talked about whether the whole system can be hacked and how to stop that.

It appears they finally have it worked out though. Early next year the PUC will likely finally approve the line for operation under PTC and without extra safety measures.
 
There was a pic in a Seattle newspaper that showed the curve that train had to make. It was a pretty sharp turn.
 
Lesson #1 our teacher taught us after playing a learning game: Pioneers die. Don't be the first to try something new. Witness: the Titanic.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Positive Train Control is part of new commuter rail line from downtown Denver to Denver International Airport. The Line opened in April of 2016. It has never worked the way it was supposed to. One systems glitch after another. PTC seems to be a great theory, but it is a very high maintenance apparatus. All the sensors, relays, microchips, controlllers and all the rest need to be in top shape. Nobody has talked about whether the whole system can be hacked and how to stop that.

It appears they finally have it worked out though. Early next year the PUC will likely finally approve the line for operation under PTC and without extra safety measures.
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Tied into the crash and PTC, Trump mentioned infrastructure today in a tweet on the crash. I fully back increased infrastructure spending. Is there any chance it gets through, because I can't see it happening. Or i cannot see it happening if the House sticks to the Hastert Rule.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
Tied into the crash and PTC, Trump mentioned infrastructure today in a tweet on the crash. I fully back increased infrastructure spending. Is there any chance it gets through, because I can't see it happening. Or i cannot see it happening if the House sticks to the Hastert Rule.
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As do I. This is an issue both parties have let slide. In the early '90's, I think, there was a massive power outage on the east coast. IIRC, a subdivision actually worked somewhere in Ohio that saved that outage from spreading further west. Our power grid is outdated and sux, our rail system is outdated and sux, our airline system is outdated and sux...
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
Tied into the crash and PTC, Trump mentioned infrastructure today in a tweet on the crash. I fully back increased infrastructure spending. Is there any chance it gets through, because I can't see it happening. Or i cannot see it happening if the House sticks to the Hastert Rule.
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I seem to think every presidential candidate spent some time, especially during the election, talking about infrastructure spending. I know for sure Obama did. I seem to remember Hilary and Trump did as well. So, this is the topic that sounds good to get elected but once they are in office, either they forget or they have trouble convincing the Congress. :rolleyes:
 
meridian said:
Yeah, Obama is the engineer and he also built the train.
Good catch, Lucy!
You forgot to add that Trump was there, cheering the derailing!
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This high speed train has Obama’s prints all over it, Sure glad Trump is rolling back every thing Obama’s done:)
 
JamieDimonsBalls said:
Heads need to literally roll. With this kind of negligence, I really hope involuntary manslaughter is on the table.
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Well they have the ( black boxes ) clean shaven by the way, So that should shed some light on what went on.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Tied into the crash and PTC, Trump mentioned infrastructure today in a tweet on the crash. I fully back increased infrastructure spending. Is there any chance it gets through, because I can't see it happening. Or i cannot see it happening if the House sticks to the Hastert Rule.
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I agree. I think when the government actually buys things and builds infrastructure, we get the most economic bang for the buck. The problem is that our public servants have even managed to politicize infrastructure spending. To reach a compromise on all this pork, we end up with highway reconstruction that still has traffic jams, buses and trains that are substantially empty, walkways and bikeways that take up space, and crowed court dockets with all the litigation these projects bring.* From my experience almost every infrastructure project has opposition. And, as I have posted before, a wealthy community like Fort Collins Colorado gets a multi-million dollar federal grant to build a bus-only transit corridor which the local voters twice rejected building with a local tax increase.

*Many of these lawsuits stem from non-compliance with the myriad of rules and regulations involved at every phase of a large project. Fortunately the Trump administration is dumping the worst of these regs.
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Positive Train Control is part of new commuter rail line from downtown Denver to Denver International Airport. The Line opened in April of 2016. It has never worked the way it was supposed to. One systems glitch after another. PTC seems to be a great theory, but it is a very high maintenance apparatus. All the sensors, relays, microchips, controlllers and all the rest need to be in top shape. Nobody has talked about whether the whole system can be hacked and how to stop that.

It appears they finally have it worked out though. Early next year the PUC will likely finally approve the line for operation under PTC and without extra safety measures.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this today....and I obliviously don't understand what's so complex about it.

I was playing golf in Texas last month....all the carts had GPS....And if you drove a cart into a restricted area of the fairway/near green....the cart would automatically slow to a crawl until you got back out of the restricted area.

How is it really THAT hard to put that into locomotives?
 
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twenty02 said:
I was thinking about this today....and I oblivious don't understand what's so complex about it.

I was playing golf in Texas last month....all the carts had GPS....And if you drove a cart into a restricted area of the fairway/near green....the cart would automatically slow to a crawl until you got back out of the restricted area.

How is it really THAT hard to put that into locomotives?
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I could be snotty and say that the golf cart works because there are no federal and state regulations about how a golf cart is to be operated on a golf course. But I won't say that because a bureaucrat might read this post, submit a budget request, do a study, hire staff, and regulate where a golf cart can be driven. ;)
 
CO. Hoosier said:
I could be snotty and say that the golf cart works because there are no federal and state regulations about how a golf cart is to be operated on a golf course. But I won't say that because a bureaucrat might read this post, submit a budget request, do a study, hire staff, and regulate where a golf cart can be driven. ;)
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I was gonna post about the regulation that you have to be at least 14 to legally drive one. This sort of needless regulation puts people in a golf cart who weren’t previously in the golf cart. Just think of all the innovation and competition we’d have if, like, any age were legally allowed to drive them.
 
twenty02 said:
I was thinking about this today....and I obliviously don't understand what's so complex about it.

I was playing golf in Texas last month....all the carts had GPS....And if you drove a cart into a restricted area of the fairway/near green....the cart would automatically slow to a crawl until you got back out of the restricted area.

How is it really THAT hard to put that into locomotives?
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I was thinking.

On a side note.... It kind of amazes me that they can lose an airplane (MH370) when there are devices like SPOT that will transmit your position to a satellite ever so often and they are cheap. I talk to a guy up in the Yukon and ever so often he'll give me a link to monitor where he is. He only sends his locating every 15 minutes but it's still interesting to monitor sometimes.
 
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