So have I... I stand by what I typed. It's simple common sense...
American Airlines plane crash
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
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So have I... I stand by what I typed. It's simple common sense...
I am mostly concerned that the FAA/ATC hire the best possible people for the job. Obviously, the prior administration had no such goal.
Did you miss the news about the FAA hiring policies being unchanged, since at least well BEFORE the FIRST Trump administration?
Simply move the same flights to the other two nearby airports (if they have to cut duplicate flights so be it). Safety comes first...
The bottom line of airlines doesn't concern me even slightly when weighed against passenger safety and/or enhanced security for the Capital of the United States of America...
Even better, turn Reagan over to the Air Force and make all those flights Official Personnel Only (for Congress and the Cabinet and others designated as on Official government business...)
Stated Policies don’t equal actual hiring practices
Do you really not see a difference between administrations in that regard? Good Lord
I guess I don’t get how you seem to believe that it’s suddenly and irrevocably unsafe to fly into and out of Reagan. I don’t believe it is.
I'm guessing the FAA targets people with disabilities for hiring.
I'd bet a large sum of money that they aren't allowing people with severe intellectual disabilities to be ATCs, though. FAA, I'm sure, has hundreds or thousands of different jobs that need doing.
What would be wrong with hiring someone with low IQ or something similar to be a janitor, for example?
Absolutely. I’m all for it. But as someone said in the thread there are certain jobs where the best of the best is needed and we can’t demand diversity solely for the sake of same. If that’s all black ees. All Asian. All white. Too bad.
They’re saying now one controller was working two different tower positions at the time of the crash. I guess that’s not sop
A) Extremely Overcrowded Airspace
B) Sits right next to the largest number of high value terrorism targets on the planet (our US Military and Government HQ's)
C) Is easily replaced as a D.C. access point by either Dulles or BWI
I've never said it was "irrevocably unsafe" to fly into Reagan... I'm just saying we can easily make it safer...
Convenience should never supersede enhanced safety, in my opinion...
Common Sense
It’s always been my DMV airport of choice when I’m going to DC. It’s easy, nice, and close to town. Dulles is a pain and out in the boonies. BWI is very good, but pretty far out.
So DEI = Abby Normal ? Is that what I am hearing?
Don't use the abby normal brain.
YEP, it was an annual recert flight. Even general aviators (like me) have to do the same thing every 2 years. This was an experienced crew.If you watch very many airplane videos you will see that a lot are not contributed to pilot error. But when you talk about human mistakes then there are a lot more.
I've read several places not to read too much into that because even on a training mission the pilot may have lots of hours.
If you want to play the flight back go here (if it works that is):
Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24
View flight on Flightradar24www.flightradar24.com
I agree.
Let's remember that we mostly only learn about incidents like this one. There may be a near-miss here or there that makes the news. But those news reports are rare.
There are way more safety-related situations that we don't learn about. For instance, ATC may have to issue vectors for collision avoidance or airspace transition. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that certain kinds of clearances and instructions are catalogued and, at least periodically, reviewed. In other words, if they were happening frequently somewhere, even without some kind of an actual safety incident, then those areas would (excuse the pun) be on the FAA's radar.
And I'm quite sure that all separation conflicts are reviewed. In fact, I'd bet they're even followed up on -- but I've personally never been involved in one. A separation conflict is a very big deal in that world, even if it happens once. If it was happening repeatedly somewhere, I guarantee they wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and tell controllers to be more careful.
I agree with that.
But I've seen no evidence anywhere as of now that that's what happened with these ATCs, or any others, for that matter.
Sorry brother but I can't agree with your line of solution here. So far, this seems simple that 1) ATC didn't have control over the Blackhawk 2) something weird was going on in the blackhawk cockpit to not see that CRJ in front of them.
Can you explain this to me?
President Joe Biden signaled his commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) on his first day in office by rescinding a Trump executive order that had denied systemic racism’s existence and restricted diversity training within the federal government, its contractors, and its grant recipients.
Saying three **** ups from an expert
1. Policy. Copter needed more people for visuals on board. At least 4.
2. Copter pilot air. Cluttered airspace and those goggles make it difficult to discern what’s up and the pilot was at the wrong height
3. Tower fck up. Said you see the plane but there were two planes. Copter said yes. But he did see one plane but not the other
Starting to interview families now. Skaters’ parents and shit. Too much. Unbearable
None of those are Biden's fault. None of those are Trump's fault. I don't think it's even fair to call this a "**** up." Bad things happen in a complex world. It's no one individual's responsibility, I'd guess. But we'll find out in time.
What this thread shows is certain, though, is that we humans do have an innate desire to have a narrative to hold on to, and make us feel like we can control everything and stop all bad things from happening. If in the process we get to blame someone we hate, so much the better.
But we'd be better off, I think, to consider:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Peace be with you.
No president (Obama, Trump, or Biden) can know everything that needs to be fixed or that they think should be fixed. If the hiring practices were not adequate then someone has to bring it up to get it fixed. They need to see what was changed the last time they were changed and go from there. Unfortunately, it takes something like this crash to get someone to look at things sometimes. I hope they do look at hiring practices to see if they tried to hire the best available and ignored the sex, color, and anything else that might enter into hiring.
Okay but don’t step on vpm’s toes! Definitely too soon to judge. I was just relating what a Blackhawk expert on cnn deemed to be at fault. As for fck ups we’ll find out. But believe me. As a long time follower of Air Disasters there’s always a fck up and usually more than one. Wrong screw. Staffing issue we’ll be okay. Pilot error. Usually a combo of things
VPM texted me and asked to sub in for him. He's trying to convert me.
The lawyers--who over the last 24 hours have broken any number of laws about contacting family members of the dead and barratry--will pin the blame on someone or some agency, no doubt. They're going to make a lot of money.
Mayor Pete:
We put safety first, drove down close calls, grew Air Traffic Control, and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch,” Mr. Buttigieg said. “Time for the President to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again.”
We put safety first, drove down close calls, grew Air Traffic Control, and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch,” Mr. Buttigieg said. “Time for the President to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again.”
Within hours of a tragedy that took 67 lives, the President of the United States offered callous, reckless and irresponsible comments that were a slap in the face to the families of the victims. He politicized the tragedy and baselessly blamed Democrats and DEI for the horrific loss of life.
Let’s not forget, then, who started the finger-pointing. It was Trump, manifesting yet again his unbridled hatred of his opponents. Any expectation of quiet acquiescence to his reprehensible commentary is woefully naive.
I believe you’ve previously acknowledged that you’re an atheist. That said, I’m encouraged by your reference to
the Beatitudes. A conversion, perhaps?
Yup. Barratry won’t mean shit compared to that lotto ticket. Condo collapse. Same drill
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I am an atheist. Just because I don't believe Jesus of Nazareth was supernatural, or that he might not have actually uttered those words, doesn't mean I have to reject wholesale the outlook on life, human psychology, and morality expressed in Matthew.
I could also quote Confucius or Buddha or Marcus Aurelius or maybe Atticus Finch. They convey wisdom, too. Doubt it would hold the same sway here, though.
Trump shouldn't have said what he said. No one is expecting "quiet acquiescence" about that. Jesus would ask you to love and forgive him, though. Do you?
Little personal story. My edibles guy in Chicago is one of my two best friends. Since first grade. His biological dad flew an army copter in Vietnam. Got shot down and crashed it and died in Vietnam. His mom remarried a few years later to his current step dad who is like my second pop. He was a copter pilot in Vietnam too. He crashed his copter there too but lived!!!
Anyway my buddy never had contact with his real dad’s fam. Didn’t know em. I was living in Columbus going to grad school and playing soccer and he calls and asks if I’d do him a favor. He’ll pick me up and drive to Pittsburgh to meet his dad’s parents and family. He’d met them when he was like 3. Never since. 20 plus years. So go do that and hit the igloo for a hockey game and get fckd up at the Oakland bars. I think it was Oakland.
Anyway when he turned 18 he got a big check from the gov for his pop dying. Bought a dodge stealth 🤣. Took it down to southwest for school and totaled it.
We met the grandma at a Denny’s. I kept goin oh I hope that’s not her. Ewww we don’t want this one. She finally came. Introduced herself to us and took us to her home where all of his relatives and extended family were waiting. Bawling. Hugging him. Mind you he was 23. All over the walls were pics of his dad in his military uniform. It was surreal.
He had a crazy uncle who took us out that night in his stealth. My buddy told him he had one too but wrecked it. The uncle got so excited he spun out on the entrance to the highway and wrecked his 🤣. I guess those cars were meant to be wrecked.
Ate primantis with fries on corned beef.
Was a surreal weekend. His dad dying wrecked his parents’ lives. You could tell they were stuck. With a cloud over em.
It’s heartrending to think of all these families. In the copter. On the plane. Easier to make jokes and sling tribal insults. 67 lives gone. Thousands changed forever
No surprise, dbm's Twitter twits are wrong
A MALE instructor pilot, named Andrew Eaves, was serving as pilot-in-command,. He had about 1,000 flight hours, not 500.
The instructor pilot was evaluating the second pilot — who was also qualified as a pilot in command — for that night training flight and the pilot who was being evaluated had about 500 flight hours. It is the SECOND PILOT, not in command, aka co-pilot, who hasn't been identified yet, but rumors are was female. The third person on board, the crew chief, was male.
They had flown this same flight path many times, in the day and at night. They were flying with night vision goggles on.
Some info here, on the crew:
https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/20...w-chief-blackhawk-helicopter-that-crashed-dc/
A MALE instructor pilot, named Andrew Eaves, was serving as pilot-in-command,. He had about 1,000 flight hours, not 500.
The instructor pilot was evaluating the second pilot — who was also qualified as a pilot in command — for that night training flight and the pilot who was being evaluated had about 500 flight hours. It is the SECOND PILOT, not in command, aka co-pilot, who hasn't been identified yet, but rumors are was female. The third person on board, the crew chief, was male.
They had flown this same flight path many times, in the day and at night. They were flying with night vision goggles on.
Some info here, on the crew:
https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/20...w-chief-blackhawk-helicopter-that-crashed-dc/
Black Hawk pilot from Mississippi killed in DC plane-helicopter crash
A Noxubee County native was among those aboard a Black Hawk helicopter that collided with a regional jet Wednesday in Washington, D.C., reports say.
www.clarionledger.com
Much, much easier. Most people don't have the capacity to sit and mourn. The other stuff is, like you imply, a defense mechanism. Anger and hate are usually secondary emotions, protecting us from feeling the underlying sadness, shame, or guilt.
That's really cool that your friend wanted you there and you were there for him. I've got people like that, too. Sometimes I take them for granted, but they're a very special part of my life.
Yeah don’t. Always make the effort. It pays more dividends than anything
A friend of 12+ years called me a couple of hours ago. He has a friend who he has raced with and against for 15 years. He called this friend just before our conversation
The friend lives in Paw Paw Michigan, is a Senior pilot for American Airlines, flies out of O'Hare.
He was flying the aircraft taking off moments before the collision. Said his crew didn't know what exactly had happened, but knew 'something was up', as all incoming flights were put in holding patterns as he was climbing to altitude for Chicago.
Is certain the Army pilot mistook his aircraft for the incoming flight when asked if he had the incoming aircraft in sight.
When the initial accident news started to become public, his wife was panicking, fearing it was his flight.
Says he will be under increased pressure to retire.
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