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American Airlines plane crash

In conclusion
It’s at once a rush to judgment to pin this on DEI without further info
The timing is poor optics in keeping with trump’s dreadful decorum
It’s an opportunity to later review the hires to ensure we have the best people possible
Last election was a referendum on Biden Harris hence it was their duty to have a primary

Now I’m going to have a lovely lunch with my fat bald partners and turn on Europa and secretly hope manu loses @larsIU
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
Biden could barely function
 
There could be a million different reasons. My brother is a West Point grad and spent several years flying the Blackhawk. I talked to him at lunch and his thoughts were: (1) it is up to the blackhawk pilot to avoid commercial aircraft; (2) the Blackhawk is nearly impossible to see at night; (3) radar at airports is limited, and it is starting to be come antiquated. He pointed out that the radio reports indicate that the helicopter pilot was aware of jet, ATC told him about it, and he acknowledged it. Could be an instrument failure, could be an issue where the blackhawk pilot and crew were focused on internal controls. Could be anything.

I really don't need to blame anyone. 60 plus people lost their lives in an accident. I'm almost think some people on this board are actually not too upset because it becomes an easy off road to take a shit on someone.
Loss of life is the main concern. But we have to investigate so it won't be repeated.
 
You miss the germane distinction. Again. Policy. Pubs were only going to elect someone who advocated the policies trump did. So whether it was Desantis or the vek or trump didn’t matter. Pubs were good. They had the policies Americans wanted

Conversely the public did not want the policies of harris and Biden. So it was their burden to get someone with DIFFERENT policies. When Harris said she’d do nothing different it was game over

Sure I’d prefer it wasn’t trump. Today we get ugly trump. There will be more of these days. But I’ve always said both sides lie incessantly so vote on policy

I am not missing that, I flatly pointed out I expected the policy change so you haven't heard me complain about them (until things go to hell). He deserves the right to do the wrong things he said he was going to do. Except for RFK, I am moot on his policies until results are known.

My point is we could have had those policies AND someone who doesn't have athlete's foot of the tongue from sticking his foot in his mouth all the time. That was an option. People decided they wanted the crazy.

A person dates two women that are both 8s. One is nice, polite, smart. The other is a diva and will stab someone rather than look at them. They marry the second. That's there fault. The GOP wanted the second one. They wanted the crazy.
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
It would be nice if we could organize a prayer in this thread that you could lead us in. Say 4 eastern time. We could all bow our heads wherever we are. Be something we could start doing on here
 
There could be a million different reasons. My brother is a West Point grad and spent several years flying the Blackhawk. I talked to him at lunch and his thoughts were: (1) it is up to the blackhawk pilot to avoid commercial aircraft; (2) the Blackhawk is nearly impossible to see at night; (3) radar at airports is limited, and it is starting to be come antiquated. He pointed out that the radio reports indicate that the helicopter pilot was aware of jet, ATC told him about it, and he acknowledged it. Could be an instrument failure, could be an issue where the blackhawk pilot and crew were focused on internal controls. Could be anything.

I really don't need to blame anyone. 60 plus people lost their lives in an accident. I'm almost think some people on this board are actually not too upset because it becomes an easy off road to take a shit on someone.
I keep reading conflicting reports on whether the helo acknowledged the tower. Some say the pilot says he saw the plane, others say the tower never received a response. In the snippet released that I heard there was no response. But who knows if it was edited.
 
I am not missing that, I flatly pointed out I expected the policy change so you haven't heard me complain about them (until things go to hell). He deserves the right to do the wrong things he said he was going to do. Except for RFK, I am moot on his policies until results are known.

My point is we could have had those policies AND someone who doesn't have athlete's foot of the tongue from sticking his foot in his mouth all the time. That was an option. People decided they wanted the crazy.

A person dates two women that are both 8s. One is nice, polite, smart. The other is a diva and will stab someone rather than look at them. They marry the second. That's there fault. The GOP wanted the second one. They wanted the crazy.
People decided they didn’t want the policies of the last 4 years. Dems doubled down on them. Everything else is secondary. We have trump bc of Dem policies
 
So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
Last month (while receiving security briefings), Trump wanted to shoot them down!

So what do you think of the heartless, soulless bastard assigning blame and politicizing this horrible tragedy just hours after it occurred?
 
It would be nice if we could organize a prayer in this thread that you could lead us in. Say 4 eastern time. We could all bow our heads. Be something we could start doing on here
The fact his wife thinks it was deliberate does not shock me. And the announcement on drones the other day was nothing but theatrics. Late breaking news my ass.
 
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The fact his wife thinks it was deliberate does not shock me. And the announcement on drones the other day was nothing but theatrics. Late breaking news my ass.
Let’s get confirmation first that we’re going to pray. We can do a here post.
 
Let’s get confirmation first that we’re going to pray. We can do a here post.
If they all survived Van would likely thank God or say by the grace of God. Since everyone died, are we allowed to blame God?

Just want to know the rules of the road for the big Prayer meeting. I'll put some long pants for it.
 
If they all survived Van would likely thank God or say by the grace of God. Since everyone died, are we allowed to blame God?

Just want to know the rules of the road for the big Prayer meeting. I'll put some long pants for it.
Yes. Church pants thank you. I don’t know either. It should be illuminating
 
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People decided they didn’t want the policies of the last 4 years. Dems doubled down on them. Everything else is secondary. We have trump bc of Dem policies
So Biden MADE YOU VOTE TRUMP IN THE PRIMARY. Is that what you are saying, you had no FREE WILL? I believe Republicans had a free will to vote for others in the primary but I guess not, the party are just automatons that voted as Trump commanded.

Again, I have never argued the policy point, I have argued and continue to that in Jan of 24 there were a lot of options to vote for someone who would change all of Biden's policies. It wasn't just Trump. I don't get why you don't see that there were options. Was DeSantis in the race? Would he have changed virtually all of Biden's policies. You are fixated only on the general. I thought there was a primary.

I'm tapping out, we are getting nowhere. I am off to edit the Wiki to remove all references to a Republican primary in 24 as obviously there was not one.
 
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My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
you can't handle the truth, and your wife seems very intelligent, lucky to have her
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
I think your comment about "why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form" is telling. It is hard to govern a group of people who are prone to immediately reaching for the Aliens Built the Pyramids playbook
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.

Last month (while receiving security briefings), Trump wanted to shoot them down!

So what do you think of the heartless, soulless bastard assigning blame and politicizing this horrible tragedy just hours after it occurred?
This (below) will help bring you up to speed, Van.

The DEI policy was in place during the entirety of Trump's first term.

He's full of shit, Van. And evil to the core.

 
There could be a million different reasons. My brother is a West Point grad and spent several years flying the Blackhawk. I talked to him at lunch and his thoughts were: (1) it is up to the blackhawk pilot to avoid commercial aircraft; (2) the Blackhawk is nearly impossible to see at night; (3) radar at airports is limited, and it is starting to be come antiquated. He pointed out that the radio reports indicate that the helicopter pilot was aware of jet, ATC told him about it, and he acknowledged it. Could be an instrument failure, could be an issue where the blackhawk pilot and crew were focused on internal controls. Could be anything.

I really don't need to blame anyone at the moment. 60 plus people lost their lives in an accident. I'm almost think some people on this board are actually not too upset because it becomes an easy off road to take a shit on someone.
Blame will be determined and assigned. Very likely the blame will be assigned to the helo pilot or a helo equipment malfunction. The helo has the responsibility of avoiding the jet. This is the same requirement in the busy skies surrounding a carrier strike force.
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.
Why in the world would your wife think it’s deliberate? There is no basis for that.
 
So why didn't people vote for them? They promised virtually the same thing.

People like DBM WANT the Trump circus. They Want the hostility. They chose the stupid comments. Yet you place zero blame that way

You miss the germane distinction. Again. Policy. Pubs were only going to elect someone who advocated the policies trump did. So whether it was Desantis or the vek or trump didn’t matter. Pubs were good. They had the policies Americans wanted

Conversely the public did not want the policies of harris and Biden. So it was their burden to get someone with DIFFERENT policies. When Harris said she’d do nothing different it was game over

Sure I’d prefer it wasn’t trump. Today we get ugly trump. There will be more of these days. But I’ve always said both sides lie incessantly so vote on policy
I actually agree with both of you. I think it was a referendum on Democrats and the old GOP (RINOs or whatever you want to call them).
 
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Is what he’s saying accurate re recruiting? Remember the prior admin comprised the dumbest administration of my lifetime where woke was the motivating factor for policy. It why they were curb stomped. And now we have Gru
An in-law is an air traffic controller - I want to ask him about all of the events surrounding this but he’s a PU grad so I am avoiding him until next football season…
 
So Biden MADE YOU VOTE TRUMP IN THE PRIMARY. Is that what you are saying, you had no FREE WILL? I believe Republicans had a free will to vote for others in the primary but I guess not, the party are just automatons that voted as Trump commanded.

Again, I have never argued the policy point, I have argued and continue to that in Jan of 24 there were a lot of options to vote for someone who would change all of Biden's policies. It wasn't just Trump. I don't get why you don't see that there were options. Was DeSantis in the race? Would he have changed virtually all of Biden's policies. You are fixated only on the general. I thought there was a primary.

I'm tapping out, we are getting nowhere. I am off to edit the Wiki to remove all references to a Republican primary in 24 as obviously there was not one.
The general is all I cared about. And for the tenth time I wanted a maga whether it was trump or Desantis. It wasn’t that important to me.

What was important was defeating the policies of the last four years. As it was to most Americans. So the duty rested squarely with the Dems to find a candidate to disavow those policies. That was the dem’s burden. Not the republicans. I’m fine with trump. Would have preferred someone else. But like most of America it was anyone but Harris that was dispositive. If you have the party with the bad policies Americans don’t want you have the burden.
 
Yes. Church pants thank you. I don’t know either. It should be illuminating
We go to church in Hawaii wearing shorts. I’d replace my normal flip flops (slippahs, as they’re referred to in Hawaii) with leather sandals. Basically I wore normal golfing attire and I was not at all underdressed! I miss it.
 
Blame will be determined and assigned. Very likely the blame will be assigned to the helo pilot or a helo equipment malfunction. The helo has the responsibility of avoiding the jet. This is the same requirement in the busy skies surrounding a carrier strike force.
Yes, the plane was in a landing dissent and we all know that it feels like the plane is just "floating" down to the runway when it's in that stage, so there is nothing it can really do to avoid a helicopter. It could be a ATC mistake, but more often it's pilot error or equipment malfunction.
 
My wife thinks it was deliberate. I tend to think it was negligence. So our government should work real hard and tell us the truth. It is like these mysterious drones in NJ. Trump's new press sex plainly explained what they were and whose it was. Why didn't our government tell us the truth so conspiracies did not form.

In my Opinion, thers no conspiracy here, it's simply a horrible intersection of small errors and misunderstandings that came together to create a horrible tragedy...

The chopper pilot evidently mistook an outbound plane for the aircraft mentioned by the ATC and never clearly saw the inbound plane until a split second before he impacted it...

How's that possible (?) you may ask...; well..., the pilot was wearing NVGs which limit his peripheral vision..., and the plane appears to have been descending from his left (port side), while he was slightly ascending (for reasons unknown (that would be a major error on his part but gaining a 100 feet in a Blackhawk doesn't take a major input to the flight controls)...

The landing aircraft did nothing wrong (outside of not aborting the landing..., but the crew had no reason to believe that the helicopter would deviate from its correct altitude and probably identified and discounted the incoming helicopter as a threat, then moving onto focusing on landing procedures...

This was just a horrible intersection of factors that shouldn't have occurred had the chopper maintained its altitude below the flight path of the inbound plane, in my Opinion...

We'll get the NTSB Report 5-6 months from now but it won't change what occurred...

My take on how to avoid this sort of thing is to limit the number of aircraft landing at Reagan to those containing individuals involved with or doing official business with the US Government... (or maybe even limit it to Senators, Congressmen, and Cabinet members)... All others (visitors/tourists), should be diverted to Dulles or BWI...

Dulles has a Metro (subway) connection to D.C. and the way I recall it there's a railroad line to D.C. from either BWI proper or a connection very near it..., at any rate if you're not heading to D.C. for official business you can spend an extra 40- 80 bucks and find auxiliary transportation into the Capital... Doing this should cut the flight load into Reagan by a significant amount, in my opinion... This would also enhance the airspace security of the Capital... Seems like a no brainer to me...

The above wouldn't have prevented this accident given the specific circumstances involved but it would lower the odds of it happening again just due to a lower number of inbound flights subject to similar circumstances...
 
In my Opinion, thers no conspiracy here, it's simply a horrible intersection of small errors and misunderstandings that came together to create a horrible tragedy...
I think it was probably the helicopter pilot's fault. It's like Aloha mentioned above and I've read long before this happened that it's their responsibility to watch for other aircraft. JMO
 
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In my Opinion, thers no conspiracy here, it's simply a horrible intersection of small errors and misunderstandings that came together to create a horrible tragedy...

The chopper pilot evidently mistook an outbound plane for the aircraft mentioned by the ATC and never clearly saw the inbound plane until a split second before he impacted it...

How's that possible (?) you may ask...; well..., the pilot was wearing NVGs which limit his peripheral vision..., and the plane appears to have been descending from his left (port side), while he was slightly ascending (for reasons unknown (that would be a major error on his part but gaining a 100 feet in a Blackhawk doesn't take a major input to the flight controls)...

The landing aircraft did nothing wrong (outside of not aborting the landing..., but the crew had no reason to believe that the helicopter would deviate from its correct altitude and probably identified and discounted the incoming helicopter as a threat, then moving onto focusing on landing procedures...

This was just a horrible intersection of factors that shouldn't have occurred had the chopper maintained its altitude below the flight path of the inbound plane, in my Opinion...

We'll get the NTSB Report 5-6 months from now but it won't change what occurred...

My take on how to avoid this sort of thing is to limit the number of aircraft landing at Reagan to those containing individuals involved with or doing official business with the US Government... (or maybe even limit it to Senators, Congressmen, and Cabinet members)... All others (visitors/tourists), should be diverted to Dulles or BWI...

Dulles has a Metro (subway) connection to D.C. and the way I recall it there's a railroad line to D.C. from either BWI proper or a connection very near it..., at any rate if you're not heading to C.C. for official business you can spend an extra 40- 80 bucks and find auxiliary transportation into the Capital... Doing this should count the flight load into Reagan by a significant amount, in my opinion... This would also enhance the airspace security of the Capital... Seems like a no brainer to me...

The above wouldn't have prevented this accident given the specific circumstances involved but it would lower the odds of it happening again just due to a lower number of inbound flights subject to similar circumstances...
I’ve flown in and out of Reagan dozens of times. Even in the same model aircraft in this crash. Reagan is closest to where I needed to go. If they limited the passengers as you proposed, every flight is going to lose money. I’m confident it’ll be safe to fly into Reagan going forward. They’ll figure this out.
 
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Two primary reasons for this: 1) ATCs are being pushed to the limits. The United States has experienced an ATC shortage for at least 20 years. It got worse in 2020 when Covid hit, demand for commercial air travel plummeted, numerous ATCs accepted retirement packages, and hiring/training initiatives came to a screeching halt; 2) commercial air travel set records in the US in 2024. The TSA experienced 17 of its 20 busiest days in history in '24. Several major airports set single-year passenger records. US passenger and cargo airlines reached their largest workforce (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, agents, etc.) ever. Meanwhile, the number of ATCs continued to lag behind.

Fortunately, in response to the shortage, the FAA expanded the College Training Initiative to include a number of colleges and universities. This program allows graduates to bypass the FAA Academy while still required to pass the FAA's stringent testing for certification as an ATC.

Senator John Hoeven (R-ND) said that the FAA Academy program created a "bottleneck" that slows hiring and contributes to the ATC shortage. "We need more qualified air traffic controllers out in the workforce, and it makes sense to leverage the expertise of [UND's aviation school] to meet this critical need,” Hoeven said. “That’s an incredible value to students and a benefit to communities across the country, whose local economies rely on safe and reliable air service.”

Despite the ATC shortage, commercial air travel in the United States has remained exceptionally safe. But carry on with the Trump narrative.
I am not carrying on with any narrative. I made the comment last night before Trump made any comment that there seems to be more "near misses" than I can remember in the past. I really don't give a shit what Trump says. I can make my own conclusions. When there is an accident of this magnitude, everything will be examined, including ATC and the hiring practices of them. The fact that Trump just signed last week an EO dramatically changing that practice is relevant, contrary to what you and Bulk want to believe.
 
I think it was probably the helicopter pilot's fault. It's like Aloha mentioned above and I've read long before this happened that it's their responsibility to watch for other aircraft. JMO

Yeah..., the talking head "TV experts" consensus is that the Blackhawk pilot(s) didn't scan side to side properly or if they did they lost the inbound aircraft in the background lights Or maybe they did their scan a few seconds Before the the aircraft was even visible... Had they (the Blackhawk pilot(s)) maintained the correct altitude the tragedy would have been averted...

In addition to what I typed above I'd suggest that Reagan also limit all flights to daylight also... You'd still have to deal with weather limiting visibility but those types of situations could be diverted to Dulles and/or BWI or elsewhere...
 
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