American Airlines plane crash
- Thread starter JamieDimonsBalls
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My comment wasn’t meant to be a criticism, just a thought/reflection about lack of context for much of what appears here and what often flows from that. It applies to me as much as anyone. Sorry if it came across as though it was directed specifically at you. You’re one of the best posters here.
I probably have the world's largest collection of books that have never been (or only partially) read. I read about one book every 5-6 years, and buy 10+ per year.
In fairness to @dbmhoosier, he didn’t actually say this was the result of a DEI hiring policy. He just said that it “has all the classic earmarks of a DEI hiring policy.”
We all owe it to each other to be precise in our quotations.
I wonder what the actual failure rate of what would be considered a DEI hire vs whatever the opposite/alternative of that would be.
My guess is that they’re not that drastically different.
I think it depends on the position/role. Forcing diversity may reduce quality in some fields like stem. Blacks occupy 5 percent of the engineering class at MIT. If Tesla says we must be more diverse so we’re going to hire black kids from IU engineering. Wouldn’t that likely dilute the quality of Tesla’s workforce. DEi may improve that quality in some areas/fields. But others likely dilutes
If you want to know about DEI's effect generally on ATCs look at "Diversity in the Skies: FAA's Controversial Shift in Air Traffic Controller Hiring", Jan 29, 2014 by Gary Loff, Also "Bowing to Wokeness Since 2010", January 30, 2024, by Mariana Angela".
There are also numerous articles concerning DEI's effects on airplane manufacturing and pilot hiring, which would be of concern to non-Leftists or even Leftists when they are passengers.
Questions: who signed off on allowing the helo mission to fly short a second crew chief that many units employ when night vision is used? The left side pilot vision was impaired, as much as 40% by the NV equip due to the 'tunnel' vision effect. The B Co. Commander? The 12th Aviation Commander?
The second crew chief would have been positioned on the left side to have 'eyes on' the left field of vision.
The combined flight hours reported as 2000/500, and the pilots described as 'experienced'.
500 hours is a 'rookie'
2000 hours is equivalent to a second-year pilot.
Why would a rookie and second-year pilot fly in one of the most congested and controlled air space in the US, at night, short one crew chief?
The helo was outside it's assigned airspace, 100 to 200 feet higher in altitude than standing orders for that corridor. The command pilot 'should' have been aware of this and corrected this dangerous combination of errors.
The question of 'DEI' involvement will be investigated up the chain of command of both the Army Aviation unit and the FAA at Reagan Intl.
Sounds like a classic CYA from both pieces.
The Mission Plan and Risk assessment documents will be interesting.
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Hiring ANY kids from IU engineering would dilute the quality of a company's workforce.
You could be right but how do you explain running into 5342 if s/he saw it? The pilot of the helicopter apparently saw something that s/he thought was a plane because s/he acknowledged it when the ATC guy told him. Of course the one on the radio is probably not the one piloting the helicopter.
I thought this was a Purdue fan board? Boiler Up!
Word is Woody will receive a standing ovation tonight from the Paint Crew.
Is 500 rookie and 2000 "second year' true for helos. According to this link:
The substantial gap in pilot training requirements between commercial airliners and helicopter tour operators prompts serious consideration regarding safety. To become a commercial airline pilot, the Federal Aviation Administration mandates a minimum of 1,500 flight hours. In stark contrast, helicopter tour pilots only need 150 flight hours to qualify for a commercial license.
Below is what Google's AI says. Last night I heard a helicopter pilot say they don't get near the hours that fixed-wing pilots get so I had been looking it up:- Helicopter Pilot Requirements:
Typically require fewer total flight hours for a commercial license, often around 150 hours, due to the specialized nature of helicopter flying, including hovering and vertical takeoffs and landings.
- Fixed-Wing Pilot Requirements:
Usually require a significantly higher number of flight hours for a commercial license, often exceeding 1,500 hours, to gain proficiency in long-distance navigation and complex instrument flying.
I don’t know. Maybe.
But, whatever the difference, I still don’t think race or ethnicity or anything like that should play any role in hiring, college admissions, or anything else.
You can’t give favor to people of any one group without giving disfavor to people of other ones. And, as best we can, everybody should be treated as the unique individuals that they are.
I didn't quote him, and I didn't put words in his mouth either. I said "you've gone from DEI to Islamic Terrorist".
Saying something has "all the classic earmarks" is a coy implication. It is a parlor trick.
Maybe, I really don't know. There isn't a lot out there comparing flight hours. The guy I heard last night simply said helo pilots have a lot of short hops, so they don't accumulate hours quickly. But he could be wrong for all I know.
Atalanta plays great soccer. Fun stuff.
Like watching Brighton from a few years ago. No money to speak of and just a bunch of ballers playing great soccer
That was very informative. The only thing he left out was that the ATC didn't give a descriptive location of the inbound aircraft to the helicopter, such as: Do you see the CRJ at your 11 o'clock inbound? (This was brought up by both a Blackhawk pilot and a former FAA crash investigator on Fox over the past two days)...
The helicopter pilot made a fatal mistake but it might have been avoided had the ATC made certain he knew Exactly where the aircraft of concern was positioned relative to his flight path. That doesn't explain why the helicopter was 150 feet Above were he should have been or why he made an odd manuver (relative to his normally utilized flightpath) just prior to climbing... Those questions probably won't be answered for another 4-6 months when the investigation report comes out...
I still don't believe there's anything beyond human error involved but stuff like the helicopters last second manuver and 150' climb allow the conspiracy theorists an opening... Hopefully we'll find answers to the "why" of those questions sooner than later...
My "guess" is that this was just a combination of the helicopter misidentifing the aircraft he was supposed to have visual separation with and the complications of night flying while wearing NVGs...
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I just can't believe that. Think about it.... the plane taking off would have been taking off in the same direction as 5342 was landing so it would have been out towards the end of the runway before it got air born so the helicopter wouldn't have been close to it . Unless the helicopter pilot was really confused the plane taking off would have been off to his right. I'm honestly beginning to think the helicopter pilot thought he saw something that wasn't there because like you said he was told to go behind the CRJ. I read somewhere that he was suppose to be flying at 200 feet.
Best I remember is that the ATC said the plane was at 1200 feet or something like that. But the helicopter pilot should have known with direction to look because highway in the sky is the approach highway into the airport.
I think his manuver and climb may indicate that he was suddenly having second thoughts about exactly where the aircraft was that he was supposed to have visual separation from and may have thought he saw aircraft lights that weren't really aircraft lights (just another "guess" of mine),,,
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