All eyes should be on the OL and the RBs

[IUCX9]

So... we have a competition between 3 QBs, all coming off injuries, being developed by a new OC/QBCoach who doesn't have a proven track record of developing successful QBs.

Sounds like we are going to go with the game managing distributor QB. Whoever wins isn't going to carry the offense on the power of his arm. The offense is going to succeed based on the QBs ability to facilitate the offense.


In other words... it may not matter who the QB is because Walt Bell's previous offenses never had/used/needed a prolific QB to operate.

All eyes should be on the OL and the Running game. The QB is not going to be the headliner.

 

[Jackskip23]

So... we have a competition between 3 QBs, all coming off injuries, being developed by a new OC/QBCoach who doesn't have a proven track record of developing successful QBs.

Sounds like we are going to go with the game managing distributor QB. Whoever wins isn't going to carry the offense on the power of his arm. The offense is going to succeed based on the QBs ability to facilitate the offense.


In other words... it may not matter who the QB is because Walt Bell's previous offenses never had/used/needed a prolific QB to operate.

All eyes should be on the OL and the Running game. The QB is not going to be the headliner.

I think it’s two guys competing, not three.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

So... we have a competition between 3 QBs, all coming off injuries, being developed by a new OC/QBCoach who doesn't have a proven track record of developing successful QBs.

Sounds like we are going to go with the game managing distributor QB. Whoever wins isn't going to carry the offense on the power of his arm. The offense is going to succeed based on the QBs ability to facilitate the offense.


In other words... it may not matter who the QB is because Walt Bell's previous offenses never had/used/needed a prolific QB to operate.

All eyes should be on the OL and the Running game. The QB is not going to be the headliner.

CB will be QB1. This is why he was brought in. Think PR 2.0

 

[Champs1976]

If the OL becomes the key to the offense this year, we are in for another very tough year. I have zero confidence that the guys there are going to be significantly better this year and that is what they'd have to be in order to just reach the level of mediocre.

For example, Bedford is in his fourth year as a starter. Has he really shown the level of improvement each year you'd expect of someone with all of those starts? In fact, I could argue that there has been very little improvement since his freshman year. And he is demonstrably the best O lineman we have.

Those guys as a group have not shown toughness and have not shown the impact of developing OL technical skills. I am going to guess that they are not receiving much in the way of technique development/coaching and hence show very little improvement over time. The lack of virtually any individual improvement by any lineman over the last five years should be enough evidence to warrant change in the position coach.

Yes, scheme should help mask some of the deficiencies, but why should that be necessary? Why should Walt Bell have to face a season with virtually no one on the OL he can rely on to consistently block effectively?

Maybe I just don't understand how we expect an effective offense with the OL so questionable. Daily Hoosier had an article today ranking the position groups from strongest to weakest. Guess which unit got ranked weakest? Yup, OL. If the game is won in the trenches and limiting TOs, how can IU expect to win consistently with such a consistently glaring weakness in the trenches? A weakness that gets key players injured. A weakness that prevents the offense from getting big yardage plays.

Needless to say, while I'll still be watching every single IU game this fall, the fact that the OL play is so obviously a central problem just eats at me. That CTA adressed other position coach issues but not the most obvious one is really sad and indicates to me that CTA still really doesn't get what you sometimes need to do when you are the head guy - which is fire your friends if necessary for the good of the program.

 

[IUCX9]

If the OL becomes the key to the offense this year, we are in for another very tough year. I have zero confidence that the guys there are going to be significantly better this year and that is what they'd have to be in order to just reach the level of mediocre.

For example, Bedford is in his fourth year as a starter. Has he really shown the level of improvement each year you'd expect of someone with all of those starts? In fact, I could argue that there has been very little improvement since his freshman year. And he is demonstrably the best O lineman we have.

Those guys as a group have not shown toughness and have not shown the impact of developing OL technical skills. I am going to guess that they are not receiving much in the way of technique development/coaching and hence show very little improvement over time. The lack of virtually any individual improvement by any lineman over the last five years should be enough evidence to warrant change in the position coach.

Yes, scheme should help mask some of the deficiencies, but why should that be necessary? Why should Walt Bell have to face a season with virtually no one on the OL he can rely on to consistently block effectively?

Maybe I just don't understand how we expect an effective offense with the OL so questionable. Daily Hoosier had an article today ranking the position groups from strongest to weakest. Guess which unit got ranked weakest? Yup, OL. If the game is won in the trenches and limiting TOs, how can IU expect to win consistently with such a consistently glaring weakness in the trenches? A weakness that gets key players injured. A weakness that prevents the offense from getting big yardage plays.

Needless to say, while I'll still be watching every single IU game this fall, the fact that the OL play is so obviously a central problem just eats at me. That CTA adressed other position coach issues but not the most obvious one is really sad and indicates to me that CTA still really doesn't get what you sometimes need to do when you are the head guy - which is fire your friends if necessary for the good of the program.

Very well said. The game is won/lost in the trenches.

Now there are coaches that can scheme around a bad OL. I'm just not sure Bell is that type of OC.

All eyes up front, folks.

 

[vesuvius13]

If the OL becomes the key to the offense this year, we are in for another very tough year. I have zero confidence that the guys there are going to be significantly better this year and that is what they'd have to be in order to just reach the level of mediocre.

For example, Bedford is in his fourth year as a starter. Has he really shown the level of improvement each year you'd expect of someone with all of those starts? In fact, I could argue that there has been very little improvement since his freshman year. And he is demonstrably the best O lineman we have.

Those guys as a group have not shown toughness and have not shown the impact of developing OL technical skills. I am going to guess that they are not receiving much in the way of technique development/coaching and hence show very little improvement over time. The lack of virtually any individual improvement by any lineman over the last five years should be enough evidence to warrant change in the position coach.

Yes, scheme should help mask some of the deficiencies, but why should that be necessary? Why should Walt Bell have to face a season with virtually no one on the OL he can rely on to consistently block effectively?

Maybe I just don't understand how we expect an effective offense with the OL so questionable. Daily Hoosier had an article today ranking the position groups from strongest to weakest. Guess which unit got ranked weakest? Yup, OL. If the game is won in the trenches and limiting TOs, how can IU expect to win consistently with such a consistently glaring weakness in the trenches? A weakness that gets key players injured. A weakness that prevents the offense from getting big yardage plays.

Needless to say, while I'll still be watching every single IU game this fall, the fact that the OL play is so obviously a central problem just eats at me. That CTA adressed other position coach issues but not the most obvious one is really sad and indicates to me that CTA still really doesn't get what you sometimes need to do when you are the head guy - which is fire your friends if necessary for the good of the program.

The lack of development in players is why I want Hiller gone. I will see this season if the OL is better but if not then he needs to be let go and bring in someone better. He got a lot of help with the OL so that shows he can't develop players.

 

[CC Mac]

CB will be QB1. This is why he was brought in. Think PR 2.0

I’d take PR 2.0 in a heartbeat

 

[Courtsensetwo]

The lack of development in players is why I want Hiller gone. I will see this season if the OL is better but if not then he needs to be let go and bring in someone better. He got a lot of help with the OL so that shows he can't develop players.

Those are the reasons most of us wanted him gone. That said, he is back, i can't change that so I hope he kicks ass.

Sort of like when trump and Obama were elected. I didn't vote for either one, but once they were there I hoped they suceeded.

 

[ORG]

So... we have a competition between 3 QBs, all coming off injuries, being developed by a new OC/QBCoach who doesn't have a proven track record of developing successful QBs.

Sounds like we are going to go with the game managing distributor QB. Whoever wins isn't going to carry the offense on the power of his arm. The offense is going to succeed based on the QBs ability to facilitate the offense.


In other words... it may not matter who the QB is because Walt Bell's previous offenses never had/used/needed a prolific QB to operate.

All eyes should be on the OL and the Running game. The QB is not going to be the headliner.

The QB, if the team is successful, will be one of the headliners.

 

[jlasson]

Hiller should've been in the same meeting as Sheridan the day after the Purdue game. I have little faith that we will see any major improvement from the O-line YoY as it seems that both Bedford and Haggard haven't developed a whole lot since stepping into starting roles, but since it's clear he'll be the O-line coach for 2022, I digress. Let's just hope Bell knows how to work with what will at it's best be a mediocre O-line. The way CTA talks about the O-line in general makes me a little nervous, obviously he has said he believes the group has been doing well and that he think's they are developing nicely, but anyone can say nice things to the media, he said he was feeling really confident about the offense going into the PSU game and we all know how that turned out. He uses so many buzz words that make it seem like he doesn't really know specifics on the development of his O-line. Given the fact that the O-line was the only relatively healthy group on the offensive side of the ball last year(outside of TE) and they still sucked, you'd think he'd be watching them very closely and would have more to say than "yeah, the group has been progressing well".

I'm sure he's more involved in the defense now after the drop off on that side of the ball in 2020, and I'm pretty confident he will steer the defense back on track in 2022. But he still needs to make sure the offense is seriously improved in 2022 because they were the single worst offense in the B1G last year. Outsider looking in, it's hard for me to be extremely optimistic about the offense when I see a defensive HC, a cost efficient OC hire to say the least, and an O-line coach who has fielded a mediocre to downright terrible unit in each of the past two seasons. Football is becoming more and more centered around the offense every year. Unless you just have a loaded defense filled with NFL bodies, it's very difficult to hold real offenses(so not the B1G West) under 21 points. Meaning the bar should be 21 points per game in B1G play, which IU got to against only one team in their nine conference games last year.

IMO the defense really wasn't as bad as it looked statistically. Yes the last three games were ugly, but the defense was depleted by injuries and unfortunately just gave up on the offense scoring points. For the first half of the season, we had a legit defense that was bogged down in PPG by three pick sixes and a turnover that put the ball on our own 10 yard line for an easy score. But if we had even an average offense, MSU should've been a win, and PSU should've at least been competitive, ntm the turnovers that gave the Cincy game away. The good news is our death row of B1G East opponents is considerably later in the season this year, so the defense should be healthier and more optimistic mentally when we play most of our winnable games. I just hope I'm wrong on Bell(and Hiller for that matter) and this offense turns around in a big way next season, because if not, we're looking down the barrel of a really brutal season.

 

[Hatchets7times]

The QB, if the team is successful, will be one of the headliners.

You think ?.lol.
It's just the most important position in all of sports..

 

[iueyedoc99]

You think ?.lol.
It's just the most important position in all of sports.

 

[iueyedoc99]

So... we have a competition between 3 QBs, all coming off injuries, being developed by a new OC/QBCoach who doesn't have a proven track record of developing successful QBs.

Sounds like we are going to go with the game managing distributor QB. Whoever wins isn't going to carry the offense on the power of his arm. The offense is going to succeed based on the QBs ability to facilitate the offense.


In other words... it may not matter who the QB is because Walt Bell's previous offenses never had/used/needed a prolific QB to operate.

All eyes should be on the OL and the Running game. The QB is not going to be the headliner.

What top tier B1G teams has Walt Bell beaten with a game manager under center?

IU won’t win in the B1G without dynamic QB play. That’s a direct quote from CKW so I won’t claim it but it’s true. We’ve barely done it with guys who WERE headliners.

 

[82hoosier]

When Caleb Jones was selected for that postseason senior game, after having such a crappy season, my thought was that people said he's so freaking big perhaps his lack of success was due to crappy coaching. Let's take our own look at him for a couple of days.

Time will tell.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

What top tier B1G teams has Walt Bell beaten with a game manager under center?

IU won’t win in the B1G without dynamic QB play. That’s a direct quote from CKW so I won’t claim it but it’s true. We’ve barely done it with guys who WERE headliners.

Interesting quote from a coach that so badly mismanaged the position

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Interesting quote from a coach that so badly mismanaged the position

So true.

The only solid qb he had his time here was Nate. It was always seemed like we just went out and got whoever would say yes. I give him credit for recruiting Ramsey here as well, but he never played for Wilson.

I've heard a story back in 2017 (before he was fired), that we had a kid that wanted to commit (Tyler Lytle). Wilson wouldn't take it because he thought we had Braxton Burmeister coming in. Problem was, we didn't have him at all and ended up pissing off Lytle when we went back to him.

There was no direction with the qbs. Nate was the man. Zander couldn't do what Nate could do. Tre couldn't either. Nate couldn't do what either of them did. Coffman was a slinger but inconsistent. Lagow had a much different skill set then Ramsey. He also recruited Austin King and Danny Cameron, both never did anything here.

At least with this staff, we're starting to see they want a certain type of qb, and they are sticking to that mold. We won't have to change up the playbook when qb1 goes down because qb2 skillset (meaning running/throwing type) isn't so far off that it's noticeable.

 

[daddyhoosier]

Here is Matthew Bedford Miced up last week:



I share this because I was happy to see Bedford 1) being a leader and coaching up his teammates 2) repeatedly emphasizing technique

Also I read / heard somewhere, apologies I cannot remember where, that Walt Bell is being pretty hands-on and is actively working directly with the offensive line. I'm assuming this means he is wanting to make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of pass-pro and run schemes.

Caleb Jones - NFL scouts are in love with prototypes and upside and all of that crap. It's nothing personal but I highly doubt Jones will ever start a game in the NFL. That said, he might be worth having in your goalline / short-yardage package though. A couple of times last year when he leaned on guys inside the two...the way they collapsed was absolutely epic lolol.

 

[IUCX9]

What top tier B1G teams has Walt Bell beaten with a game manager under center?

IU won’t win in the B1G without dynamic QB play. That’s a direct quote from CKW so I won’t claim it but it’s true. We’ve barely done it with guys who WERE headliners.

Baby steps.

Step 1, win 6 games.

Step 2, beat top tier B1G teams.

 

[IUCX9]

The QB, if the team is successful, will be one of the headliners.

I'll be happy with: "not the reason we lost games" QB

 

[cshartle123]

The offensive line last year may have been the worst I’ve seen in my fifteen years as a fan. I went to four games and was astonished how much worse they looked in person than on tv. The only caveat i’ll add is that Sheridan’s play calling was so vanilla that defenses could anticipate where the ball was going.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Hiller's past results is a topic to bitch about. But my expectations for the entire offense are heightened by the rejection of Sheridan's lack of management skills. New but experienced O staff bring fresh attitude and no doubt better coaching. Having a stout, aggressive, opportunistic defense will cut a wide swath toward a successful "22". Gotta give a chance cause it won't be a repeat of last year.

 

[vesuvius13]

Hiller's past results is a topic to bitch about. But my expectations for the entire offense are heightened by the rejection of Sheridan's lack of management skills. New but experienced O staff bring fresh attitude and no doubt better coaching. Having a stout, aggressive, opportunistic defense will cut a wide swath toward a successful "22". Gotta give a chance cause it won't be a repeat of last year.

The OL played better on running plays in the goal line situations, hopefully the new offense is better by replicating that situation. The run blocking got bad when coach DeBoer took over as OC and continued under coach Sheridan. If it was the offense, maybe it will change this year with the new offense since coach Bell works with them along with coach Hiller.

 

[jacksback]

What top tier B1G teams has Walt Bell beaten with a game manager under center?

IU won’t win in the B1G without dynamic QB play. That’s a direct quote from CKW so I won’t claim it but it’s true. We’ve barely done it with guys who WERE headliners.

Agree with CKW's quote which is why I was so disappointed when McCulley moved to WR.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

The OL played better on running plays in the goal line situations, hopefully the new offense is better by replicating that situation. The run blocking got bad when coach DeBoer took over as OC and continued under coach Sheridan. If it was the offense, maybe it will change this year with the new offense since coach Bell works with them along with coach Hiller.

...and Bell's emphasis on an offense with a rushing attack...

 

[MMcCormick]

I have seen some offensive lines that completely changed under new coordinators when the line coach did not change. Will be interesting to see if that happens. Sure looked like an oline coach issue, but something bad coordinators can make an oline look worse than they are.

 

[It Will Do]

What bothered me the most was what appeared to be apathy displayed by our o.line. With the results we had I don’t know why they didn’t play more players and give someone new a chance.

 

[fieldjock]

Hiller will be on a short leash. He needs help and I hope he gets some. The in game coaching needs to be better From DH. We need development of backups. Keep an open mind but always play the best players based off their performances.

 

[Radio Zero]

Short leash? DH’s leash is probably at least 12 games long. I doubt TA would fire him in-season when he wasn’t willing to do so after the conclusion of a two win campaign.

EDIT. Or maybe you meant something else which didn’t come to mind. Didn’t mean to sound rude.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

The offensive line last year may have been the worst I’ve seen in my fifteen years as a fan. I went to four games and was astonished how much worse they looked in person than on tv. The only caveat i’ll add is that Sheridan’s play calling was so vanilla that defenses could anticipate where the ball was going.

Try the worst offensive line in decades here (plural).
Did you hear the promise Bedford made in the clip?
He said “ain’t gonna get to that Quarterback.”

Holding him to that.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Short leash? DH’s leash is probably at least 12 games long. I doubt TA would fire him in-season when he wasn’t willing to do so after the conclusion of a two win campaign.

EDIT. Or maybe you meant something else which didn’t come to mind. Didn’t mean to sound rude.

Hiller will surprise this year because he has a much better puppeteer pulling his strings. Allen brought in Bell and our former player to oversee him entirely.

 

[The one and only ACE]

CB will be QB1. This is why he was brought in. Think PR 2.0

With a quicker arm release

 

[Courtsensetwo]

With a quicker arm release

Quicker release and hopefully just as much grit as PR.

 

[The one and only ACE]

I thought RB’s were in the headline? Not seeing any discussion on them

 

[Jackskip23]

I thought RB’s were in the headline? Not seeing any discussion on them

We’ll be relying on two transfers who weren’t heavily used last season at their previous schools, three guys who are holdovers who’ve logged little time for us, and a late add recruit whom we persuaded to de-commit from Tulane. There is some size and speed, but it’s mostly untested. Oh, and we have a new offensive coordinator who‘s installing a run-first, tempo spread attack. The Illinois game will be the coming out party for all of that. Should be very interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[The one and only ACE]

We’ll be relying on two transfers who weren’t heavily used last season at their previous schools, three guys who are holdovers who’ve logged little time for us, and a late add recruit whom we persuaded to de-commit from Tulane. There is some size and speed, but it’s mostly untested. Oh, and we have a new offensive coordinator who‘s installing a run-first, tempo spread attack. The Illinois game will be the coming out party for all of that. Should be very interesting to see how it pans out.

Shivers is good

 

[Jackskip23]

Shivers is good

I hope so. It’s been awhile since he’s gotten much playing time, so he should be fresh. Hope the change of scenery is a positive for him and us.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Hiller will surprise this year because he has a much better puppeteer pulling his strings. Allen brought in Bell and our former player to oversee him entirely.

Even with some of his better lines they have had bad starts. Usually by mid season they were decent but that didn’t happen last year. It will be interesting to see how it goes this year.

 

[ekk]

If the OL becomes the key to the offense this year, we are in for another very tough year. I have zero confidence that the guys there are going to be significantly better this year and that is what they'd have to be in order to just reach the level of mediocre.

For example, Bedford is in his fourth year as a starter. Has he really shown the level of improvement each year you'd expect of someone with all of those starts? In fact, I could argue that there has been very little improvement since his freshman year. And he is demonstrably the best O lineman we have.

Those guys as a group have not shown toughness and have not shown the impact of developing OL technical skills. I am going to guess that they are not receiving much in the way of technique development/coaching and hence show very little improvement over time. The lack of virtually any individual improvement by any lineman over the last five years should be enough evidence to warrant change in the position coach.

Yes, scheme should help mask some of the deficiencies, but why should that be necessary? Why should Walt Bell have to face a season with virtually no one on the OL he can rely on to consistently block effectively?

Maybe I just don't understand how we expect an effective offense with the OL so questionable. Daily Hoosier had an article today ranking the position groups from strongest to weakest. Guess which unit got ranked weakest? Yup, OL. If the game is won in the trenches and limiting TOs, how can IU expect to win consistently with such a consistently glaring weakness in the trenches? A weakness that gets key players injured. A weakness that prevents the offense from getting big yardage plays.

Needless to say, while I'll still be watching every single IU game this fall, the fact that the OL play is so obviously a central problem just eats at me. That CTA adressed other position coach issues but not the most obvious one is really sad and indicates to me that CTA still really doesn't get what you sometimes need to do when you are the head guy - which is fire your friends if necessary for the good of the program.

Well said! We're in need of some big surprises or a miracle in this category.

 

[vesuvius13]

Despite some poster dismissing the talent of the players brought to IU this season they don't lose their athleticism because they are new. IU has much more speed and players with more shiftiness for their positions and they don't lose that coming to IU. Add in Matthews coming back from injury and there are play-makers all over the field we didn't have in the past since before the turn of the century.

 

[82hoosier]

My guess is that when Cam went to talk to coach Allen about players being lazy he was talking about players on the offensive side of the ball. And if so the offensive line was probably pretty high on the list. If it was defensive players it would have been able to be handled during daily practice