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Adjusted MOV Ranks - How good is IU so far, really?

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Oct 4, 2010
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This is going to be my first ranking of adjusted margin of victory for the B1G this year. Normally, I would wait until closer to the midway point of the season, on the assumption that you can't learn anything valuable from 2 or 3 games, but I'm doing this very early this year as an experiment, to see if that assumption holds up. I explained the math on this last year, so even though I'll enjoy doing it again (since I'm a math geek), I'm going to save all the math for the end of the post, so it's easy for people to skip who don't care about it.

What these rankings represent is essentially a Sagarin or KenPom style value for teams, but based only on in-conference games. There are no assumptions built in, preseason or otherwise. They simply measure how teams have actually performed in the conference, relative to their opponents. The actual number is supposed to represent how much a team would expect to win or lose by on a neutral court against a perfectly average B1G team. They are:
Code:
Rank    Team    Avg
1       UM      14.74
2       Iowa     7.61
3       Mary     6.81
4       PU       4.99
5       Ill      3.43
6       Wiscy    2.45
7       OSU      2.44
8       Ind      0.72
9       PSU     -2.25
10      MSU     -2.38
11      NW      -2.64
12      Neb     -7.68
13      Minny  -11.06
14      RU     -12.07
Not a lot of surprises. The computer doesn't like MSU's performance so far, and IU seems a little low for a 3-0 team, while Illinois seems a little high for an 0-2 squad, but by and large, they seem to make sense.

As for IU specifically, the computer puts the Hoosiers right smack dab in the middle largely because, even though we overperformed slightly against Nebraska and Wiscy (2.6 and 1.7 points, respectively), we underperformed by 4.8 points against Rutgers. If the Rutgers performance was an aberration, you'll see IU gradually move up this list.

Early in the season, the disparity in schedule strength is obviously glaring from team to team. This accounts for Illinois ranking so far ahead of IU. Illinois has had the #1 SOS so far, while IU has had the #14 SOS. Based on the schedule remaining, IU is predicted to finish 10-8, and in 7th place.

Home court advantage has been minor in the early going, exactly 1 point. Last year, the final home court advantage was 2.96. Also, if last year is any indication, at least some of the teams at the very top and bottom will come back to the pack. Wiscy was the only double-digit team last year, at 11.12. Rutgers was the only double-digit at the bottom, at -11.78. Every other team was between 6 and -6.

Finally, since the whole reason I started doing this was as a gambling experiment, for tonight's games, Maryland should be a 20-point favorite, while Northwestern should be 4-point dogs. Last I saw, Maryland was favored by 22, while Northwestern was actually a 2-point favorite. My computer says betting on the Buckeyes tonight is where you can make some money.

The Math

For those who are interested in the math, this started many years ago as an experiment to come up with a pure alternative to Sagarin ratings that was based only on actual margin of victory. What I did was take each game, and adjust the real MOV according to the average MOVs of the participating teams. I then refigured each team's average MOV using the new numbers, and went back and forth through several iterations. I quickly realized that I only had to do a few iterations for the numbers to start trending toward a stable average. However, while the ratings were very good at predicting games in late December, once the conference season started, they fell apart. I figure the wildly unbalanced non-conference schedules make a lot of early games pretty useless for predicting conference success. Therefore, I now simply skip the non-con season, and use conference games only. I only do the B1G, because I don't care about other conferences, and I have much more limited time than I did back then.

These rankings are actually the averages of two different methods of trying to figure the same thing. One is a multiple-iteration approach, as described above. The other is a simulated approach, based on the RPI formula, which assigns different weights to opponent's strength, opponent's opponent's strength, etc. This is only my second year with this method, but I believe in the long run, I will find it to be more accurate than the original.
 
W
This is going to be my first ranking of adjusted margin of victory for the B1G this year. Normally, I would wait until closer to the midway point of the season, on the assumption that you can't learn anything valuable from 2 or 3 games, but I'm doing this very early this year as an experiment, to see if that assumption holds up. I explained the math on this last year, so even though I'll enjoy doing it again (since I'm a math geek), I'm going to save all the math for the end of the post, so it's easy for people to skip who don't care about it.

What these rankings represent is essentially a Sagarin or KenPom style value for teams, but based only on in-conference games. There are no assumptions built in, preseason or otherwise. They simply measure how teams have actually performed in the conference, relative to their opponents. The actual number is supposed to represent how much a team would expect to win or lose by on a neutral court against a perfectly average B1G team. They are:
Code:
Rank    Team    Avg
1       UM      14.74
2       Iowa     7.61
3       Mary     6.81
4       PU       4.99
5       Ill      3.43
6       Wiscy    2.45
7       OSU      2.44
8       Ind      0.72
9       PSU     -2.25
10      MSU     -2.38
11      NW      -2.64
12      Neb     -7.68
13      Minny  -11.06
14      RU     -12.07
Not a lot of surprises. The computer doesn't like MSU's performance so far, and IU seems a little low for a 3-0 team, while Illinois seems a little high for an 0-2 squad, but by and large, they seem to make sense.

As for IU specifically, the computer puts the Hoosiers right smack dab in the middle largely because, even though we overperformed slightly against Nebraska and Wiscy (2.6 and 1.7 points, respectively), we underperformed by 4.8 points against Rutgers. If the Rutgers performance was an aberration, you'll see IU gradually move up this list.

Early in the season, the disparity in schedule strength is obviously glaring from team to team. This accounts for Illinois ranking so far ahead of IU. Illinois has had the #1 SOS so far, while IU has had the #14 SOS. Based on the schedule remaining, IU is predicted to finish 10-8, and in 7th place.

Home court advantage has been minor in the early going, exactly 1 point. Last year, the final home court advantage was 2.96. Also, if last year is any indication, at least some of the teams at the very top and bottom will come back to the pack. Wiscy was the only double-digit team last year, at 11.12. Rutgers was the only double-digit at the bottom, at -11.78. Every other team was between 6 and -6.

Finally, since the whole reason I started doing this was as a gambling experiment, for tonight's games, Maryland should be a 20-point favorite, while Northwestern should be 4-point dogs. Last I saw, Maryland was favored by 22, while Northwestern was actually a 2-point favorite. My computer says betting on the Buckeyes tonight is where you can make some money.

The Math

For those who are interested in the math, this started many years ago as an experiment to come up with a pure alternative to Sagarin ratings that was based only on actual margin of victory. What I did was take each game, and adjust the real MOV according to the average MOVs of the participating teams. I then refigured each team's average MOV using the new numbers, and went back and forth through several iterations. I quickly realized that I only had to do a few iterations for the numbers to start trending toward a stable average. However, while the ratings were very good at predicting games in late December, once the conference season started, they fell apart. I figure the wildly unbalanced non-conference schedules make a lot of early games pretty useless for predicting conference success. Therefore, I now simply skip the non-con season, and use conference games only. I only do the B1G, because I don't care about other conferences, and I have much more limited time than I did back then.

These rankings are actually the averages of two different methods of trying to figure the same thing. One is a multiple-iteration approach, as described above. The other is a simulated approach, based on the RPI formula, which assigns different weights to opponent's strength, opponent's opponent's strength, etc. This is only my second year with this method, but I believe in the long run, I will find it to be more accurate than the original.
Will you be posting the index every week thru the conference season?
 
W

Will you be posting the index every week thru the conference season?
I'll be posting it roughly whenever I feel like it. :D

Assuming people find it of interest. I think I posted it after every IU game last year, or maybe every other game, starting about 6 or 8 games in, and we had a few interesting discussions based on what I found. Not as much interesting to see yet, this early in the season. I really did this just because I wanted to see whether I was right that rankings this early are pretty worthless. But I will put my reputation on the line and call OSU +2 an official prediction.
 
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I'll be posting it roughly whenever I feel like it. :D

Assuming people find it of interest. I think I posted it after every IU game last year, or maybe every other game, starting about 6 or 8 games in, and we had a few interesting discussions based on what I found. Not as much interesting to see yet, this early in the season. I really did this just because I wanted to see whether I was right that rankings this early are pretty worthless. But I will put my reputation on the line and call OSU +2 an official prediction.
Well I for one will be looking for it. You taking that number to your book?
 
Well I for one will be looking for it. You taking that number to your book?
I don't bet real money, mostly because I don't own enough of it. My system was about 50/50 exactly last year, so not worth it, anyway. We'll see how it does this year with the slight adjustments I made.

Thanks for the kind words, though. Good to know at least a few people actually find this junk interesting. I'd still do it, just for my own interest, anyway, but it's definitely more satisfying to be able to share it.
 
One thing to keep in mind - Vegas doesnt set the line by what it predicts the outcome of the game to be. The Vegas line is set at the number they determine necessary to cause betting public to split...and they adjust their line accordingly.
 
One thing to keep in mind - Vegas doesnt set the line by what it predicts the outcome of the game to be. The Vegas line is set at the number they determine necessary to cause betting public to split...and they adjust their line accordingly.
Yep. That's the cornerstone to this entire experiment. The idea was in two parts:
1. We've long known that scoring margin is the single best predictor of future success.
2. Finding a way to accurately quantify that should help highlight those games where the Vegas line is skewed for other reasons.
 
This is going to be my first ranking of adjusted margin of victory for the B1G this year. Normally, I would wait until closer to the midway point of the season, on the assumption that you can't learn anything valuable from 2 or 3 games, but I'm doing this very early this year as an experiment, to see if that assumption holds up. I explained the math on this last year, so even though I'll enjoy doing it again (since I'm a math geek), I'm going to save all the math for the end of the post, so it's easy for people to skip who don't care about it.

What these rankings represent is essentially a Sagarin or KenPom style value for teams, but based only on in-conference games. There are no assumptions built in, preseason or otherwise. They simply measure how teams have actually performed in the conference, relative to their opponents. The actual number is supposed to represent how much a team would expect to win or lose by on a neutral court against a perfectly average B1G team. They are:
Code:
Rank    Team    Avg
1       UM      14.74
2       Iowa     7.61
3       Mary     6.81
4       PU       4.99
5       Ill      3.43
6       Wiscy    2.45
7       OSU      2.44
8       Ind      0.72
9       PSU     -2.25
10      MSU     -2.38
11      NW      -2.64
12      Neb     -7.68
13      Minny  -11.06
14      RU     -12.07
Not a lot of surprises. The computer doesn't like MSU's performance so far, and IU seems a little low for a 3-0 team, while Illinois seems a little high for an 0-2 squad, but by and large, they seem to make sense.

As for IU specifically, the computer puts the Hoosiers right smack dab in the middle largely because, even though we overperformed slightly against Nebraska and Wiscy (2.6 and 1.7 points, respectively), we underperformed by 4.8 points against Rutgers. If the Rutgers performance was an aberration, you'll see IU gradually move up this list.

Early in the season, the disparity in schedule strength is obviously glaring from team to team. This accounts for Illinois ranking so far ahead of IU. Illinois has had the #1 SOS so far, while IU has had the #14 SOS. Based on the schedule remaining, IU is predicted to finish 10-8, and in 7th place.

Home court advantage has been minor in the early going, exactly 1 point. Last year, the final home court advantage was 2.96. Also, if last year is any indication, at least some of the teams at the very top and bottom will come back to the pack. Wiscy was the only double-digit team last year, at 11.12. Rutgers was the only double-digit at the bottom, at -11.78. Every other team was between 6 and -6.

Finally, since the whole reason I started doing this was as a gambling experiment, for tonight's games, Maryland should be a 20-point favorite, while Northwestern should be 4-point dogs. Last I saw, Maryland was favored by 22, while Northwestern was actually a 2-point favorite. My computer says betting on the Buckeyes tonight is where you can make some money.

The Math

For those who are interested in the math, this started many years ago as an experiment to come up with a pure alternative to Sagarin ratings that was based only on actual margin of victory. What I did was take each game, and adjust the real MOV according to the average MOVs of the participating teams. I then refigured each team's average MOV using the new numbers, and went back and forth through several iterations. I quickly realized that I only had to do a few iterations for the numbers to start trending toward a stable average. However, while the ratings were very good at predicting games in late December, once the conference season started, they fell apart. I figure the wildly unbalanced non-conference schedules make a lot of early games pretty useless for predicting conference success. Therefore, I now simply skip the non-con season, and use conference games only. I only do the B1G, because I don't care about other conferences, and I have much more limited time than I did back then.

These rankings are actually the averages of two different methods of trying to figure the same thing. One is a multiple-iteration approach, as described above. The other is a simulated approach, based on the RPI formula, which assigns different weights to opponent's strength, opponent's opponent's strength, etc. This is only my second year with this method, but I believe in the long run, I will find it to be more accurate than the original.
I applaud your effort. You will probably improve it over the next several years.

Nonetheless, I see a list with 0-2 Illinois in 5th with 3-0 IU in 8th and wonder why I should even glance at something that looks like Big Ten standings, when in reality Illinois would have to win the next 5 games and IU would have to lose the next 5 games for Illinois to tie IU.

I am not sure what this list is.
 
I applaud your effort. You will probably improve it over the next several years.

Nonetheless, I see a list with 0-2 Illinois in 5th with 3-0 IU in 8th and wonder why I should even glance at something that looks like Big Ten standings, when in reality Illinois would have to win the next 5 games and IU would have to lose the next 5 games for Illinois to tie IU.

I am not sure what this list is.
Again, that's entirely explained by the schedule. Illinois has played only two games, and has the toughest SOS so far. IU has played 3, but has the easiest SOS so far. The difference in SOS between the two teams is ASTRONOMICAL at this moment, because it's so early, and that will change.

That is the primary reason I have always operated under the assumption that doing this so early in the season is a waste of time. I'm just giving it a shot this year for the hell of it, and to challenge my own assumption. I believe it was sometime during the third or fourth week of January when I posted these numbers for the first time last season.

Once Jeopardy is over and I update files I'm transferring between computers, I'll post some SOS info, along with the predicted final records, to illustrate why this is such a big factor this early in the season.
 
I see a list with 0-2 Illinois in 5th with 3-0 IU in 8th and wonder... Illinois would have to win the next 5 games and IU would have to lose the next 5 games for Illinois to tie IU.

I am not sure what this list is.

I'm not a math expert, but if Illinois won their next five, they would be 5-2 in the league and if IU lost the next five, they would be 3-5. That's not tied in Hancock County. Again, not a math geek, so I'm open to being wrong.
 
More on SOS and predicted records. What follows is each team ranked by projected record. The wins and losses do NOT both add up to 126, because they are based on percentages, result in fractions, and are rounded. The two SOS rankings are based on the two different mathematical models I described. You'll see that both models peg Illinois as the #1 SOS and IU as the #14 SOS. This is obviously to be expected based on the early schedule at this point.
Code:
Team    ITERSOS    Rank    SIMSOS    Rank    PredW    PredL
UM      -1.25       8       2.43      4      16        2
Iowa    -2.51      11      -0.87      9      14        4
Mary    -3.05      12      -1.84     10      13        5
PU       5.97       2       4.09      2      11        7
OSU     -5.02      13      -2.60     13      11        7
Ill     10.12       1       7.06      1      11        7
Ind     -5.69      14      -5.84     14      10        8
Wiscy   -2.35      10      -1.89     11       9        9
NW      -0.37       6      -0.51      7       7       11
MSU     -1.34       9      -2.11     12       7       11
PSU      3.91       3       3.08      3       7       11
Neb      2.57       4       1.23      5       4       14
RU       2.42       5       0.75      6       2       16
Minny   -0.90       7      -0.56      8       2       16
These SOS numbers explain why a team like Ill can be projected to have a better record than IU, despite being 2.5 games behind them in real life right now. Those projected records are based on actual records right now and actual games remaining, with a percentage likelihood of winning assigned using a standard Pythagorean formula for each game based on opponent and home/away.

NB to the math nerds: for the Pyth. formula, I use an exponent of 13.9. I may experiment with changing that in the offseason.
 
I'm not a math expert, but if Illinois won their next five, they would be 5-2 in the league and if IU lost the next five, they would be 3-5. That's not tied in Hancock County. Again, not a math geek, so I'm open to being wrong.
Looks like you're right. My example should have said that Illinois won the nect two and IU lost the next three.

Good thing GOAT didn't catch this - he would have brutal.
 
Looks like you're right. My example should have said that Illinois won the nect two and IU lost the next three.

Good thing GOAT didn't catch this - he would have brutal.
I assumed you were talking about overall records. And even though my rankings don't consider non-con games, that still would have been a good point for the point I thought it was you were making.

(Double-checking to see if that sentence I just wrote was English.)

Anyway, like I said, this early in the conference season, SOS is way out of whack, and that explains the Illinois/Indiana anomaly.
 
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Well, I'm 1-0, so far, thanks to that OSU win. Updated rankings, including the SIM strength of schedule and the projected records (again, they don't add up to 126 both ways because of rounding):
Code:
Rank   Team   Avg    SOS   PredW   PredL
1      UM     15.39   2    17       1
2      Iowa    7.51   9    13       5
3      Mary    7.42  13    13       5
4      Ill     4.59   1    11       7
5      PU      4.52   3    11       7
6      OSU     4.13  11    12       6
7      Wiscy   1.49  12     8      10
8      Ind     0.00  14     9       9
9      PSU    -0.82   4     8      10
10     MSU    -1.63  10     7      11
11     NW     -2.91   8     7      11
12     Neb    -8.76   7     3      15
13     Minny  -9.99   6     3      15
14     RU    -13.31   5     2      16
Home court advantage has increased to 1.34 tonight. Still too low, but on the right trend.

Numbers predict two more road winners tomorrow: UM -9.5 and Ill -5.0. I don't trust either one of those, so I'll wait to see the lines tomorrow before I suggest picking one of them. My program requires a 1.5-point cushion before it recommends a bet, but I am looking for at least a 3.0-point cushion for road teams, because I don't believe that low home court advantage is realistic. And I don't believe that UM number is trustworthy at any rate.

EDIT: Okay, I'm talking UM +7.5 and Illinois +13 on the road. This will be the first real test of just how useless these early rankings are.

You'll note that Indiana is now officially an exactly average Big Ten team. For what that's worth. You might wonder how that translates to a 9-9 record with our schedule and 3-0 start, but it actually projects to a 9.49-8.51 schedule. That's an extreme example of rounding playing a role right there. In other words, 10-8 is still almost as likely as 9-9.
 
Last edited:
I think you may get better predictions by capping the top of your MOV scoring. Personally, I might pick 20-25 points as a margin cap so a 38 point win would be the same as a 20-25 point win. If that is too arbitrary, maybe you could take a list of all MOV's in the conference from last year or the last few years and lop off above the 95th percentile.

Further, it seems you could use AP ranking to help as a multiplier. 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 21-25 - add in a multiplying factor for wins against ranked opponents. Beating a top 5 team on the road by 12 points, for example, is such a feat, it should be rewarded.

And then finally, the biggest problem thus far is that your rankings are completely based on scheduling. It doesn't mean a thing until late in the season. Michigan beat a crummy team by a lot of points at home. Not a big deal.

Plus, what happens if you lose by 40 on the road at MSU when one of your players has a suspension, but then win the next 6 by a total of 12 points? 6-1 in that stretch would be a whole lot more valuable than whatever the scoring showed, wouldn't it? Maybe I don't understand the scoring system very well. But I do see that you are rewarding UM vastly for beating Penn State.
 
I think you may get better predictions by capping the top of your MOV scoring. Personally, I might pick 20-25 points as a margin cap so a 38 point win would be the same as a 20-25 point win. If that is too arbitrary, maybe you could take a list of all MOV's in the conference from last year or the last few years and lop off above the 95th percentile.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it. I have specific responses to the points you bring up, and will try to be as definitive as I can.

As for your cap idea, I realize it makes sense, but years of statistics and study (by people who are not me, and start with a guy named Sagarin) show that it's not true. No cap should be put on margin of victory. Scoring margin is the best predictor of future performance, period. It's not comfortable. A lot of people hate it. That's one reason the BCS was such a colossal failure. But it's a fact. Scoring margin predicts future results.
Further, it seems you could use AP ranking to help as a multiplier. 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 21-25 - add in a multiplying factor for wins against ranked opponents. Beating a top 5 team on the road by 12 points, for example, is such a feat, it should be rewarded.
The whole point of my system is to not include any assumptions whatsoever. The numbers are based on what teams do in conference games. Nothing else. Ever. At all. I will not include outside assumptions, and that includes AP rankings, or any other rankings.
And then finally, the biggest problem thus far is that your rankings are completely based on scheduling. It doesn't mean a thing until late in the season. Michigan beat a crummy team by a lot of points at home. Not a big deal.
I've mentioned multiple times that SOS is completely out of whack early in the season, and that is why I normally would never even think to post these rankings at this point in the calendar, but I am doing so as an experiment, to see if my (and everyone else's) assumptions about SOS and other early season skewing are really justified.
Plus, what happens if you lose by 40 on the road at MSU when one of your players has a suspension, but then win the next 6 by a total of 12 points? 6-1 in that stretch would be a whole lot more valuable than whatever the scoring showed, wouldn't it? Maybe I don't understand the scoring system very well. But I do see that you are rewarding UM vastly for beating Penn State.
None of these systems can take injuries and suspensions into account in any quantifiable way. That's a fact of life, and one of the many reasons you should never try to make a living by gambling.

But, as for big losses followed by stretches of close wins, we can quantify that. In the sports ranking world, we call that "luck"* and it's a rating of how much a team wins or loses compared to what's expected from their scoring. This early in the season, it absolutely means nothing. That's why I haven't shared it. And it's also far less important than people assume, as I discovered last year.

I hope I answered your questions.

* In case anyone missed the conversation last year, much like "deflections," the term "luck" is just a handy name. Don't get bent out of shape about it. It's not about luck in the traditional sense. It's actually a measure of the difference between a team's win/loss record in close games vs. blowouts (math nerds: it's the difference between the schedule-adjusted Pyth. winning pct. and the actual winning pct.). I had a lot of fights last season about the fact we call this "luck." I'm at the point now where I say, "Just get over it. That's what we call it. Period."
 
I hope I answered your questions.

Yes, you did. The margin predicting future results is very interesting. It makes me wonder how many games it takes before it is accurate, then.

In good faith, what, then, is the point of your system if no assumptions are taken into account? What can someone derive from it?
 
Yes, you did. The margin predicting future results is very interesting. It makes me wonder how many games it takes before it is accurate, then.

In good faith, what, then, is the point of your system if no assumptions are taken into account? What can someone derive from it?
Good question. The answer is: This is a measure of how B1G teams have performed against other B1G teams, and nothing more. Alcorn State doesn't matter. Duke doesn't matter. Just B1G vs. B1G. Nothing else.
 
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