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A very average team in a very average league

kurt cloverdales

All-American
Mar 3, 2020
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other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
 
other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
Rutgers has a pretty large and enthusiastic fanbase considering their lack of historical success, imo. They also have a very active Rivals site.
 
other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
What shocked me was how slow our guys looked. It was hard to tell how much was due to them actually being quicker at almost evert position v. our guys playing in a stupor.
 
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Rutgers has a pretty large and enthusiastic fanbase considering their lack of historical success, imo. They also have a very active Rivals site.
Yep, they are really building something. I know we're not in the market for a coach, but he is probably doing the most impressive job of program building in the league and one of the better ones in the country. We'll probably be undone by timing, but he'd be on my list if I were AD.
 
other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
Has been since about '94/'95 (a few rare exceptions)-28 years. RMK had about 23 great years: '71-'93
 
Well most teams are average teams. Makes one realize how rare a great team really is.
 
Yep, they are really building something. I know we're not in the market for a coach, but he is probably doing the most impressive job of program building in the league and one of the better ones in the country. We'll probably be undone by timing, but he'd be on my list if I were AD.
I've thought of him for IU, but he truly seems like a Jersey/New York guy.

I was watching their game the other night and they said he's got two 5* recruits coming. Don't know what years.

We're probably at the point now where if Woody fails we wouldn't be able to get any of out top 3-4 choices, whoever that might be, other than by over-paying.
 
Well most teams are average teams. Makes one realize how rare a great team really is.
it's all about coaching, don't think there is another sport where coaching is as important as it is in college basketball, Galloway was the only guard doing anything last night, pulls him with 4 fouls about the 7 min mark. puts him back in with 52 seconds left down 11
 
I've thought of him for IU, but he truly seems like a Jersey/New York guy.

I was watching their game the other night and they said he's got two 5* recruits coming. Don't know what years.

We're probably at the point now where if Woody fails we wouldn't be able to get any of out top 3-4 choices, whoever that might be, other than by over-paying.
id hire Collins from northwestern.,
 
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The league is really bad outside of Purdue. Again. And Purdue really just feeds off of the rest of us. They’d probably have at least three losses in the Big 12.
 
it's all about coaching, don't think there is another sport where coaching is as important as it is in college basketball, Galloway was the only guard doing anything last night, pulls him with 4 fouls about the 7 min mark. puts him back in with 52 seconds left down 11
Kopp last night: 34 minutes, 2-3 on 2s, 1-4 on 3s, no FT attempts, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals.

Kopp rebounding the last 8 games:

NW---2 in 26M
PSU---0 in 29M
ILL---2 in 33M
MSU---2 in 31M
MINN--3 in 40M
OSU---2 in 30M
MD---1 in 34M

For the entire year he has 50 rebounds in 626 minutes, or 3.2 for every 40 minutes played.

Do we blame the players because no one's good enough to claim his time? Or do we blame Woodson for not developing anyone to the point where they claim his time?
 
id hire Collins from northwestern.,
He has certainly rehabilitated himself this year.

Didn't he go out and hire an assistant coach with a specialty in defense?

It appears that with us most of the recruiting is with the assistants, and most of the coaching by Woodson. He needs to shake his staff up but it doesn't feel like he will.
 
Kopp last night: 34 minutes, 2-3 on 2s, 1-4 on 3s, no FT attempts, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals.

Kopp rebounding the last 8 games:

NW---2 in 26M
PSU---0 in 29M
ILL---2 in 33M
MSU---2 in 31M
MINN--3 in 40M
OSU---2 in 30M
MD---1 in 34M

For the entire year he has 50 rebounds in 626 minutes, or 3.2 for every 40 minutes played.

Do we blame the players because no one's good enough to claim his time? Or do we blame Woodson for not developing anyone to the point where they claim his time?
he plays hard about all I can say for him, I'm beyond thinking he will hit 6 3s one night and step up when we need it. can't get his shot off against decent competition...
 
The league is really bad outside of Purdue. Again. And Purdue really just feeds off of the rest of us. They’d probably have at least three losses in the Big 12.
It seems like everyone other than Minnesota and Nebraska is at least decent......just not good. Remember that the preseason BT results were pretty good--beat the BIg East, lost by one game v. the ACC and should have won.

It does seem that no one has really developed as they might have.....IU, MSU, ILL, OSU most particularly. They all appeared to have potential at the beginning of the year.
 
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he plays hard about all I can say for him, I'm beyond thinking he will hit 6 3s one night and step up when we need it. can't get his shot off against decent competition...

I think TJD is so good all of these guys other than MR think he should get every rebound. There are times the ball is up for grabs and no one is going after it. Maryland hurt us last night with their offensive rebounding.

I feel bad for TJD. He deserves more than having to play with these bums.
 
Kopp last night: 34 minutes, 2-3 on 2s, 1-4 on 3s, no FT attempts, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals.

Kopp rebounding the last 8 games:

NW---2 in 26M
PSU---0 in 29M
ILL---2 in 33M
MSU---2 in 31M
MINN--3 in 40M
OSU---2 in 30M
MD---1 in 34M

For the entire year he has 50 rebounds in 626 minutes, or 3.2 for every 40 minutes played.

Do we blame the players because no one's good enough to claim his time? Or do we blame Woodson for not developing anyone to the point where they claim his time?
Getting mad at Miller Kopp's rebound numbers is the worst hill to die on. He's a perimeter shooter who guards the other teams weakest perimeter player. Kopp needs to be shooting 8-10 three's a game. It's the only frustrating part of his game, he doesn't shoot enough/doesn't have enough designed plays run for him.
 
Getting mad at Miller Kopp's rebound numbers is the worst hill to die on. He's a perimeter shooter who guards the other teams weakest perimeter player. Kopp needs to be shooting 8-10 three's a game. It's the only frustrating part of his game, he doesn't shoot enough/doesn't have enough designed plays run for him.
when your post player is getting tripled teamed, and he can't get open for a spot up 3 what are they supposed to design for him.
 
Getting mad at Miller Kopp's rebound numbers is the worst hill to die on. He's a perimeter shooter who guards the other teams weakest perimeter player. Kopp needs to be shooting 8-10 three's a game. It's the only frustrating part of his game, he doesn't shoot enough/doesn't have enough designed plays run for him.
Good Lord he's 6-7. Get his ass out of there if he can't get 4-5 defensive rebounds every 40 minutes. He gives us nothing as a rebounder, passer or shot blocker. 0. He's a 3 point specialist who passes up 3 point attempts all the time.

I love it when he passes up an open 3, shot fakes, then dribbles 2 feet to the left and lets it fly. Hits about 10% of those. Wonderful.
 
Good Lord he's 6-7. Get his ass out of there if he can't get 4-5 defensive rebounds every 40 minutes. He gives us nothing as a rebounder, passer or shot blocker. 0. He's a 3 point specialist who passes up 3 point attempts all the time
Like I said, getting mad over a 3 pt specialists rebound numbers is the worst hill to die on. He needs to be shooting more. Period.
 
Good Lord he's 6-7. Get his ass out of there if he can't get 4-5 defensive rebounds every 40 minutes. He gives us nothing as a rebounder, passer or shot blocker. 0. He's a 3 point specialist who passes up 3 point attempts all the time.

I love it when he passes up an open 3, shot fakes, then dribbles 2 feet to the left and lets it fly. Hits about 10% of those. Wonderful.
100 percent correct. I've said that all season or when he shoots a lean in pull up 3 on the break. he might hit 5 percent of those.
 
other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
Hey, don't worry - as soon as we get rid of Knight, we'll have 5 stars knocking down our door to play here and we'll win national championships on the regular.

Oh, wait.....
 
May be the kids today are not as good as the kids from the 70s, 80s in terms of work ethics and mentality? I blame the technology.
But that doesn’t make any sense, because for every team that loses a game, there’s a team winning it, doing the things necessary. And they’re all pretty nearly the same age, growing up in the same environment.
 
Mike Davis 115-79 (55-41)

Kelvin Sampson 43-15 (21-8)

Dan Dakich 3-4 (3-2)

Tom Crean 166-135 (71-91)

Archie Miller 67-58 (33-44)

Mike Woodson 36-20 (15-15)

Indiana program 430-311 .580 (198-201) (.496)

Almost 23 years. At a certain point you just kind of are what you are. This was supposed to be a breakout year and here we are, 1 game past the midpoint of the conference season, hovering right above .500. You will hear all the excuses in the world for why we are where we are at. Some may have some validity, but at the end of the day we have just settled into much celebrated mediocrity. We may go on another 5 game run, who knows, but this is absolutely not where anyone thought this team would be right now at the beginning of the year.
 
Pretty pathetic really. It all starts at the top. A one time blue blood program is now a blood bath. The IU admin got wha tthey wanted.
I don't think this is what they wanted, they are just afraid of doing anything bold and I'm not sure of their "pronouns", but I'd hazard a guess. Like maybe not firing those that produce horrible to mediocre results every year. for years, fire anybody that complains. and keep the hot seat and buyout talk to a constant topic every damn year with zero product and you want to be my latex salesman? Can't we just get a good coach and good staff and pay to do it, haven't we paid enough to say if we don't it is just simply bad management?

Wait, we had one on salary, and he's coaching Butler now, how fantastic
 
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I don't think this is what they wanted, they are just afraid of doing anything bold and I'm not sure of their "pronouns", but I'd hazard a guess. Like maybe not firing those that produce horrible to mediocre results every year. for years, fire anybody that complains. and keep the hot seat and buyout talk to a constant topic every damn year with zero product and you want to be my latex salesman? Can't we just get a good coach and good staff and pay to do it, haven't we paid enough to say if we don't it is just simply bad management?

Wait, we had one on salary, and he's coaching Butler now, how fantastic
The guy who is 3-9 in the Big East?
 
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Yet he's still a far better coach than Woodson.
Maybe 10 years ago. Matta looks terrible on the sideline and they’re terrible this year. He’s a filler for the Butler job until he’s promoted AD and can hire his own replacement.
 
The guy who is 3-9 in the Big East?
Free pass on anyone's first year.

Knight went through a Big Ten losing streak his first year, but he righted the ship by the end of the year. It's not where you start, it's where you finish. Butler will take some time to rebuild, but if they're improved at the end of the year, he's doing his job.
 
Free pass on anyone's first year.

Knight went through a Big Ten losing streak his first year, but he righted the ship by the end of the year. It's not where you start, it's where you finish. Butler will take some time to rebuild, but if they're improved at the end of the year, he's doing his job.
Butler’s lost 6 out of their last 7 games, all of them by double digits and five of them have been by 20+ points. They’re terrible, Matta looks terrible on the sideline…he sits on his stool half the game because he can barely move. This is a 2-3 year stop gap for him.
 
I've thought of him for IU, but he truly seems like a Jersey/New York guy.

I was watching their game the other night and they said he's got two 5* recruits coming. Don't know what years.

We're probably at the point now where if Woody fails we wouldn't be able to get any of out top 3-4 choices, whoever that might be, other than by over-paying.
Indiana is still a blue blood, and HS kids will come. You just need the right coach to get the most out of the players.

The commits for Rutgers you're talking about are Griffiths, who bump up to a 5-star (rivals-20th ranked)) in the new rankings. Griffith will enroll at Rutgers for summer school in June. The other 5-star is "Ace" Bailey, who is 5th overall in the 2024 rivals rankings. Also committed to Rutgers (2024 class) is 4-star Warren (rivals-91st ranked). Dylan Harper (5-star, 10th overall rivals 2024 class) has Rutgers and Indiana in his top five.
 
other than history, what really makes us different than Illinois Iowa Wisconsin Michigan and all the rest of them, everyone but Penn st and Rutgers have large fan bases who support their programs. Yeah, we won titles 40 years ago but who really cares about that today.
Thought this would be the year to start building something but it's basically the same old shit.
Sad but true
 
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Butler’s lost 6 out of their last 7 games, all of them by double digits and five of them have been by 20+ points. They’re terrible, Matta looks terrible on the sideline…he sits on his stool half the game because he can barely move. This is a 2-3 year stop gap for him.
agree on Matta his time has passed, Coach what are your thoughts on Woodson, I think Hes great guy and decent coach. but will never bring us back to national prominence.
 
Indiana is still a blue blood, and HS kids will come. You just need the right coach to get the most out of the players.

The commits for Rutgers you're talking about are Griffiths, who bump up to a 5-star (rivals-20th ranked)) in the new rankings. Griffith will enroll at Rutgers for summer school in June. The other 5-star is "Ace" Bailey, who is 5th overall in the 2024 rivals rankings. Also committed to Rutgers (2024 class) is 4-star Warren (rivals-91st ranked). Dylan Harper (5-star, 10th overall rivals 2024 class) has Rutgers and Indiana in his top five.
I disagree, Indiana is no longer a blue blood. No other University views us that way and honestly most IU fans don't. No NCAA basketball player that is currently playing has ever seen an elite and successful Indiana Men's Basketball team! Not one. I am 52yrs old and our successful seasons are quickly fading from my own memories and I do not see IU as even mediocre anymore.....we are consistently among the bottom 5 teams in the B1G.........Fact. Purdue is now our Superbowl...Fact.
 
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