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50 Combat Missions; Then Home

CO. Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2001
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We had dinner a few weeks ago with a lawyer and wife (who taught with my stoker) we hadn’t seen for 5 years or so. When catching up he mentioned a trip to Eastern Europe and visiting town where his dad was hospitalized during WWII.

What followed was a truly amazing story. His dad documented his war experiences a 35 page booklet a copy of which my friend sent to me. I asked him if I can share the story and he said definitely.

Some highlights.

His dad was a B 24 Pilot stationed in Italy. He arrived in April 1944. Fresh out of training and with a 10 person crew (4 officers and 6 enlisted) He flew his brand new B 24 from California, to Florida, to Brazil, to North Africa, and finally to Italy. Good training for his navigator who became is best friend on the crew. The airfield in Italy was dirt, with metal mats on the runway landing zone, tents with dirt floors and no permanent buildings. The nearest Italian village was in bad shape and still recovering from the effects of German occupation. A 13 year-old Italian boy became a good friend. (The boy became a maître d' in Rome and they had a Reunion years after the war) They arrived at the Italian base in considerable sorrow. Just the previous day, only one bomber returned from a mission of 16.. On his very fist mission, to the Ploiesti Oil refinery in Romania, his navigator was killed from flack. (I saw a B 24 at the Wright Patterson Museum and the navigator is like a sitting duck in the nose). His vivid description of the flack guns and shrapnel is like nothing I have read before and I have read a lot about our bombers. He saw B 24's exploding with crew and airplane parts thrown in all directions. On one mission, his bomber was the only one to return from a squadron of 6. On another he has to return to Italy and land with no ailerons. Very difficult. After 50 missions, the airmen would be sent home. The dad reported that he didn't dwell on the considerable danger; his only prayer was that when his time came, death would be quick. On his 50th mission, my friend's dad was shot down. The #2 engine caught fire and they could not put it out, they bailed out before the aircraft exploded. He was the last to leave the burning bomber. As he descended, he heard gun fire from below and assumed they were shooting at the crew and he was over Nazi territory. He waited as long as possible before opening his chute and landed in tall trees, his chute became fouled in the trees and a free fell to the ground from 50 or 60 feet. He injured his spine and couldn't move. Passed out and woke up to kids looking at him, soon adults came and carried him in his chute to a village in Slovenia. He was in the hands of Partisans who hated the Germans but where the Germans hadn't occupied. He was treated by a Jewish refugee doctor who trained in Detroit and spoke fluent English. Placed in a body cast. Finally the Germans came, and he became a POW. Transported to Vienna and taken to a hospital where dozens of downed and injured American Airmen were being cared for. Vienna was an important rail hub for German logistics and troop movement and the Americans regularly bombed it. If the target was clouded they dropped the bombs on the city. When the sirens went off, on a cloudy day, the patients were moved to the basement. In one such raid, the hospital suffered a direct hit, collapsed and he and a few others were buried in total darkness for an unknown length of time. Finally they were dug out by German soldiers. He was taken to Frankfurt and held in a pitch black small cell, literally fed bread and water through a trap door in the ceiling. Again for an unknown period of time because of complete darkness. Then was questioned by the Gestapo and threatened with beatings and a firing squad, both of which happened where he could hear and see. But he was subjected to neither. Yet he only would say name, rank and serial number. His interrogator gave him a file, that amazingly contained his home town, phone number, college, training, route taken to Italy, a description of the base in Italy, and that he was shot down on his 50th mission. He was moved to a POW medical facility and cared for by captured British doctors.. He finally was placed in a POW camp where he had access to supplies from the American Red Cross. He was very thankful for the Red Cross. Then elements of Patton's Third Army liberated the camp and he survived.

Back to the 13 year old Italian boy. The boy waited near the runway for 24 hours with wine and flowers to celebrate his friend's 50th mission. The bomber never landed.

This was truly the greatest generation.

Postscript. The dad/pilot became a successful rancher in Western Nebraska and is a member of the Nebraska Aviation Hall of Fame. When my friend visited the town in Slovenia where his dad was first taken, some of the old timers remembered him.
 
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We had dinner a few weeks ago with a lawyer and wife (who taught with my stoker) we hadn’t seen for 5 years or so. When catching up he mentioned a trip to Eastern Europe and visiting town where his dad was hospitalized during WWII.

What followed was a truly amazing story. His dad documented his war experiences a 35 page booklet a copy of which my friend sent to me. I asked him if I can share the story and he said definitely.

Some highlights.

His dad was a B 24 Pilot stationed in Italy. He arrived in April 1944. Fresh out of training and with a 10 person crew (4 officers and 6 enlisted) He flew his brand new B 24 from California, to Florida, to Brazil, to North Africa, and finally to Italy. Good training for his navigator who became is best friend on the crew. The airfield in Italy was dirt, with metal mats on the runway landing zone, tents with dirt floors and no permanent buildings. The nearest Italian village was in bad shape and still recovering from the effects of German occupation. A 13 year-old Italian boy became a good friend. (The boy became a maître d' in Rome and they had a Reunion years after the war) They arrived at the Italian base in considerable sorrow. Just the previous day, only one bomber returned from a mission of 16.. On his very fist mission, to the Ploiesti Oil refinery in Romania, his navigator was killed from flack. (I saw a B 24 at the Wright Patterson Museum and the navigator is like a sitting duck in the nose). His vivid description of the flack guns and shrapnel is like nothing I have read before and I have read a lot about our bombers. He saw B 24's exploding with crew and airplane parts thrown in all directions. On one mission, his bomber was the only one to return from a squadron of 6. On another he has to return to Italy and land with no ailerons. Very difficult. After 50 missions, the airmen would be sent home. The dad reported that he didn't dwell on the considerable danger; his only prayer was that when his time came, death would be quick. On his 50th mission, my friend's dad was shot down. The #2 engine caught fire and they could not put it out, they bailed out before the aircraft exploded. He was the last to leave the burning Bomber. As he descended, he heard gun fire from below and assumed they were shooting at the crew and he was over Nazi territory. He waited as long as possible before opening his chute and landed in tall trees, his chute became fouled in the trees and a free fell to the ground from 50 or 60 feet. He injured his spine and couldn't move. Passed out and woke up to kids looking at him, soon adults came and carried him in his chute to a village in Slovenia. He was in the hands of Partisans who hated the Germans but where the Germans hadn't occupied. He was treated by a Jewish refugee doctor who trained in Detroit and spoke fluent English. Placed in a body cast. Finally the Germans came, and he became a POW. Transported to Vienna and taken to a hospital where dozens of downed and injured American Airmen were being cared for. Vienna was an important rail hub for German logistics and troop movement and the Americans regularly bombed it. If the target was clouded they dropped the bombs on the city. When the sirens went off, on a cloudy day, the patients were moved to the basement. In one such raid, the hospital suffered a direct hit, collapsed and he and a few others were buried in total darkness for an unknown length of time. Finally they were dug out by German soldiers. He was taken to Frankfurt and held in a pitch black small cell, literally fed bread and water through a trap door in the ceiling. Again for an unknown period of time because of complete darkness. Then was questioned by the Gestapo and threatened with beatings and a firing squad, both of which happened where he could hear and see. But he was subjected to neither. Yet he only would say name, rank and serial number. His interrogator gave him a file, that amazingly contained his home town, phone number college, training, route taken to Italy, a description of the base in Italy, and that he was shot down on his 50th mission. He was moved to a POW medical facility and cared for by captured British doctors.. He finally was placed in a POW camp where he had access to supplies from the American Red Cross. He was very thankful for the Red Cross. Then elements of Patton's Third Army liberated the camp and he survived.

Back to the 13 year old Italian boy. The boy waited near the runway for 24 hours with wine and flowers to celebrate his friend's, 50th mission. The bomber never landed.

This was truly the greatest generation.

Postscript. The dad/pilot became a successful rancher in Western Nebraska and is a member of the Nebraska Aviation Hall of Fame. When my friend visited the town in Slovenia where his dad was first taken, some of the old timers remembered him.
What an incredible story. To be shot down on his 50th mission. Unbelievable.

Ploesti was such a screw up. The Germans thought it was well planned because different waves, who had become lost and were late, came in on them. In Masters of the Air, one (or maybe more) crew flew to North Africa and landed and had to get transportation back to the UK.

The guts of those crews and those who flew in the Pacific is just unimaginable.
 
We had dinner a few weeks ago with a lawyer and wife (who taught with my stoker) we hadn’t seen for 5 years or so. When catching up he mentioned a trip to Eastern Europe and visiting town where his dad was hospitalized during WWII.

What followed was a truly amazing story. His dad documented his war experiences a 35 page booklet a copy of which my friend sent to me. I asked him if I can share the story and he said definitely.

Some highlights.

His dad was a B 24 Pilot stationed in Italy. He arrived in April 1944. Fresh out of training and with a 10 person crew (4 officers and 6 enlisted) He flew his brand new B 24 from California, to Florida, to Brazil, to North Africa, and finally to Italy. Good training for his navigator who became is best friend on the crew. The airfield in Italy was dirt, with metal mats on the runway landing zone, tents with dirt floors and no permanent buildings. The nearest Italian village was in bad shape and still recovering from the effects of German occupation. A 13 year-old Italian boy became a good friend. (The boy became a maître d' in Rome and they had a Reunion years after the war) They arrived at the Italian base in considerable sorrow. Just the previous day, only one bomber returned from a mission of 16.. On his very fist mission, to the Ploiesti Oil refinery in Romania, his navigator was killed from flack. (I saw a B 24 at the Wright Patterson Museum and the navigator is like a sitting duck in the nose). His vivid description of the flack guns and shrapnel is like nothing I have read before and I have read a lot about our bombers. He saw B 24's exploding with crew and airplane parts thrown in all directions. On one mission, his bomber was the only one to return from a squadron of 6. On another he has to return to Italy and land with no ailerons. Very difficult. After 50 missions, the airmen would be sent home. The dad reported that he didn't dwell on the considerable danger; his only prayer was that when his time came, death would be quick. On his 50th mission, my friend's dad was shot down. The #2 engine caught fire and they could not put it out, they bailed out before the aircraft exploded. He was the last to leave the burning Bomber. As he descended, he heard gun fire from below and assumed they were shooting at the crew and he was over Nazi territory. He waited as long as possible before opening his chute and landed in tall trees, his chute became fouled in the trees and a free fell to the ground from 50 or 60 feet. He injured his spine and couldn't move. Passed out and woke up to kids looking at him, soon adults came and carried him in his chute to a village in Slovenia. He was in the hands of Partisans who hated the Germans but where the Germans hadn't occupied. He was treated by a Jewish refugee doctor who trained in Detroit and spoke fluent English. Placed in a body cast. Finally the Germans came, and he became a POW. Transported to Vienna and taken to a hospital where dozens of downed and injured American Airmen were being cared for. Vienna was an important rail hub for German logistics and troop movement and the Americans regularly bombed it. If the target was clouded they dropped the bombs on the city. When the sirens went off, on a cloudy day, the patients were moved to the basement. In one such raid, the hospital suffered a direct hit, collapsed and he and a few others were buried in total darkness for an unknown length of time. Finally they were dug out by German soldiers. He was taken to Frankfurt and held in a pitch black small cell, literally fed bread and water through a trap door in the ceiling. Again for an unknown period of time because of complete darkness. Then was questioned by the Gestapo and threatened with beatings and a firing squad, both of which happened where he could hear and see. But he was subjected to neither. Yet he only would say name, rank and serial number. His interrogator gave him a file, that amazingly contained his home town, phone number college, training, route taken to Italy, a description of the base in Italy, and that he was shot down on his 50th mission. He was moved to a POW medical facility and cared for by captured British doctors.. He finally was placed in a POW camp where he had access to supplies from the American Red Cross. He was very thankful for the Red Cross. Then elements of Patton's Third Army liberated the camp and he survived.

Back to the 13 year old Italian boy. The boy waited near the runway for 24 hours with wine and flowers to celebrate his friend's, 50th mission. The bomber never landed.

This was truly the greatest generation.

Postscript. The dad/pilot became a successful rancher in Western Nebraska and is a member of the Nebraska Aviation Hall of Fame. When my friend visited the town in Slovenia where his dad was first taken, some of the old timers remembered him.

Rough Duty. 🇺🇸

Getting through 50 missions unscathed would have been really extremely difficult...

The early B-17 crews flying out of England (of initial Daylight Bombing fame) only had to reach half that number and still had a tough time surviving their tour.
 
Rough Duty. 🇺🇸

Getting through 50 missions unscathed would have been really extremely difficult...

The early B-17 crews flying out of England (of initial Daylight Bombing fame) only had to reach half that number and still had a tough time surviving their tour.
My all time favorite movie is The Best Years of Their Lives.

Right behind it is 12 O'Clock High.

Both capturing the effect of combat and psychological damage.
 
My all time favorite movie is The Best Years of Their Lives.

Right behind it is 12 O'Clock High.

Both capturing the effect of combat and psychological damage.

Both are masterpieces. 12 O'Clock is phenomenal in showing the stress without the Saving Private Ryan type scenes. You just see the mental damage and leave the exact how it came about to our imagination. I sometimes feel it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

I keep threatening to track down the TV show, I know it is available. I haven't seen it since I was 6 so I don't recall if it was good or not.
 
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We had dinner a few weeks ago with a lawyer and wife (who taught with my stoker) we hadn’t seen for 5 years or so. When catching up he mentioned a trip to Eastern Europe and visiting town where his dad was hospitalized during WWII.

What followed was a truly amazing story. His dad documented his war experiences a 35 page booklet a copy of which my friend sent to me. I asked him if I can share the story and he said definitely.

Some highlights.

His dad was a B 24 Pilot stationed in Italy. He arrived in April 1944. Fresh out of training and with a 10 person crew (4 officers and 6 enlisted) He flew his brand new B 24 from California, to Florida, to Brazil, to North Africa, and finally to Italy. Good training for his navigator who became is best friend on the crew. The airfield in Italy was dirt, with metal mats on the runway landing zone, tents with dirt floors and no permanent buildings. The nearest Italian village was in bad shape and still recovering from the effects of German occupation. A 13 year-old Italian boy became a good friend. (The boy became a maître d' in Rome and they had a Reunion years after the war) They arrived at the Italian base in considerable sorrow. Just the previous day, only one bomber returned from a mission of 16.. On his very fist mission, to the Ploiesti Oil refinery in Romania, his navigator was killed from flack. (I saw a B 24 at the Wright Patterson Museum and the navigator is like a sitting duck in the nose). His vivid description of the flack guns and shrapnel is like nothing I have read before and I have read a lot about our bombers. He saw B 24's exploding with crew and airplane parts thrown in all directions. On one mission, his bomber was the only one to return from a squadron of 6. On another he has to return to Italy and land with no ailerons. Very difficult. After 50 missions, the airmen would be sent home. The dad reported that he didn't dwell on the considerable danger; his only prayer was that when his time came, death would be quick. On his 50th mission, my friend's dad was shot down. The #2 engine caught fire and they could not put it out, they bailed out before the aircraft exploded. He was the last to leave the burning bomber. As he descended, he heard gun fire from below and assumed they were shooting at the crew and he was over Nazi territory. He waited as long as possible before opening his chute and landed in tall trees, his chute became fouled in the trees and a free fell to the ground from 50 or 60 feet. He injured his spine and couldn't move. Passed out and woke up to kids looking at him, soon adults came and carried him in his chute to a village in Slovenia. He was in the hands of Partisans who hated the Germans but where the Germans hadn't occupied. He was treated by a Jewish refugee doctor who trained in Detroit and spoke fluent English. Placed in a body cast. Finally the Germans came, and he became a POW. Transported to Vienna and taken to a hospital where dozens of downed and injured American Airmen were being cared for. Vienna was an important rail hub for German logistics and troop movement and the Americans regularly bombed it. If the target was clouded they dropped the bombs on the city. When the sirens went off, on a cloudy day, the patients were moved to the basement. In one such raid, the hospital suffered a direct hit, collapsed and he and a few others were buried in total darkness for an unknown length of time. Finally they were dug out by German soldiers. He was taken to Frankfurt and held in a pitch black small cell, literally fed bread and water through a trap door in the ceiling. Again for an unknown period of time because of complete darkness. Then was questioned by the Gestapo and threatened with beatings and a firing squad, both of which happened where he could hear and see. But he was subjected to neither. Yet he only would say name, rank and serial number. His interrogator gave him a file, that amazingly contained his home town, phone number, college, training, route taken to Italy, a description of the base in Italy, and that he was shot down on his 50th mission. He was moved to a POW medical facility and cared for by captured British doctors.. He finally was placed in a POW camp where he had access to supplies from the American Red Cross. He was very thankful for the Red Cross. Then elements of Patton's Third Army liberated the camp and he survived.

Back to the 13 year old Italian boy. The boy waited near the runway for 24 hours with wine and flowers to celebrate his friend's 50th mission. The bomber never landed.

This was truly the greatest generation.

Postscript. The dad/pilot became a successful rancher in Western Nebraska and is a member of the Nebraska Aviation Hall of Fame. When my friend visited the town in Slovenia where his dad was first taken, some of the old timers remembered him.
Name of the village?
 
What an incredible story. To be shot down on his 50th mission. Unbelievable.

Ploesti was such a screw up. The Germans thought it was well planned because different waves, who had become lost and were late, came in on them. In Masters of the Air, one (or maybe more) crew flew to North Africa and landed and had to get transportation back to the UK.

The guts of those crews and those who flew in the Pacific is just unimaginable.


As I've mentioned before my father was on Tinian at the end of the war in the Pacific and he said that people didn't realize what an incredibly dangerous job those B-29 crews had... He was told (when he first moved to this particular unit) to sleep on the tent floor with his foot locker against the outside wall between him and the airstrip to protect himself from sharpnel from aircraft explosions... He thought his tent mate was just pulling his leg in a sort of screw with the new guy head game prank...

He went to chow area later that evening and returned back to his bivouac area to find it and everything around it shredded and flattened by exploding harbor mines that had been on a B-29 that had cracked up on takeoff (no survivors)... He said that sort of thing was a routine occurrence on both takeoff and landings... (they eventually moved their tents)...

He had seen enough of them crash, that when offered a spot on one of the B-29s that overflew the USS Missouri during the Japanese Surrender Signing Ceremony at the official end of the war, he declined, figuring he had survived the entire war and he wasn't going to take any chances at that point (he'd thought he was a dead man walking after having seen the sand table mock ups of the Japanese defenses that he and his Marines would encounter on Kyushu...). He'd seen enough B-29 guys either crash on take off or landing or just not make it back at all, disappearing somewhere in the North Pacific...

He had a photo taken just below the nose of the Enola Gay (and "may have been" the Officer of the Day that was in charge of transfering the scientists, and the Triggering Device (for the A-bomb) from the USS Indianapolis to shore...

He never claimed that to be the case, or made any big deal about it. He said he didn't have any idea what was in those crates, just that everything was Extremely High Priority...

He also said they (the Marines) knew something was up because the scientists coming ashore were in civilian clothes and they hadn't seen anyone out of uniform and in civilian clothes for over 3 years out there. That and they had them carrying their weapons even in the Secure areas (which was unusual)...

They told the Marines on Tinian about the Bomb fairly soon after they both were dropped... Dad had a friend who did the Beach Defense Survey in the area where the 2nd Marine Division was intending to Land immediately after the Japanese surrender and the guy said that while they (the Marines) were expecting 60% causalites, he figured from what he'd seen that it would have been closer to 80%...

That nuke and all those other bombs dropped by those B-29's saved a Lot of guys (Marines, Army & Navy) who didn't have to hit Kyushu and later Honshu if the ground Invasion of Japan had gone off as originally planned...

The Marines were Very happy with Air Force/Army air Corp General Curtis Lemay at the end of war and most felt Trumans decision to drop the nukes probably, almost certainly, saved their lives... The Marines, Army and Navy (while taking nothing away from the bravery of the Air Force/Army Air Corp) would have had to fight on the Japanese Home Islands until their unit(s) or ships became "combat ineffective" and then the survivors would have been rolled into other units as needed, if necessary... No one had any expectations of making it back Home... They never thought the Japanese would surrender based on what they had seen of them...
 
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Name of the village?
When he was first picked up, the Partisans took him through a German check point, buried in a hay wagon (just like the movies) where he assumed the Partisans killed the Germans, through a few villages then to Trencine where he was treated by the English speaking doctor. He explained that part of his journey in more detail but I omitted it for brevity sake. He wore the body cast for the whole time until liberation. When leaving Vienna he was on a troop train full of SS troops whom he described as big fair haired guys who ridiculed him but didn't otherwise do anything to him.
 
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As I've mentioned before my father was on Tinian at the end of the war in the Pacific and he said that people didn't realize what an incredibly dangerous job those B-29 crews had... He was told (when he first moved to this particular unit) to sleep on the tent floor with his foot locker against the outside wall between him and the airstrip to protect himself from sharpnel from aircraft explosions... He thought his tent mate was just pulling his leg in a sort of screw with the new guy head game prank...

He went to chow area later that evening and returned back to his tentage area to find it and everything around it shredded and flattened by exploding harbor mines that had been on a B-29 that had cracked up on takeoff (no survivors)... He said that sort of thing was a routine occurrence on both takeoff and landings... ( they moved eventually their tents)...

He had seen enough of them crash, that when offered a spot on one of the B-29s that overflew the USS Missouri during the Japanese Surrender Signing Ceremony at the official end of the war, he declined, figuring he had survived the entire war and he wasn't going to take any chances at that point (he'd thought he was a dead man walking after having seen the sand table mock ups of the Japanese defenses that he and his Marines would encounter on Kyushu...). He'd seen enough B-29 guys either crash on take off or landing or just not make it back at all, disappearing somewhere in the North Pacific...

He had a photo taken just below the nose of the Enola Gay (and "may have been" the Officer of the Day that was in charge of transfering the scientists, and the Triggering Device (for the A-bomb) from the USS Indianapolis to shore...

He never claimed that to be the case, or made any big deal about it. He said he didn't have any idea what was in those crates, just that everything was Extremely High Priority...

He also said they (the Marines) knew something was up because the scientists coming ashore were in civilian clothes and they hadn't seen anyone out of uniform and in civilian clothes for over 3 years out there. That and they had them carrying their weapons even in the Secure areas (which was unusual)...

They told the Marines on Tinian about the Bomb fairly soon after they both were dropped... Dad had a friend who did the Beach Defense Survey in the area where the 2nd Marine Division was intending to Land immediately after the Japanese surrender and the guy said that while they (the Marines) were expecting 60% causalites, he figured from what he'd seen that it would have been closer to 80%...

That nuke and all those other bombs dropped by those B-29's saved a Lot of guys (Marines, Army & Navy) who didn't have to hit Kyushu and later Honshu if the ground Invasion of Japan had gone off as originally planned...

The Marines were Very happy with Air Force General Curtis Lemay at the end of war and most felt Trumans decision to drop the nukes probably, almost certainly, saved their lives... The Marines, Army and Navy (while taking nothing away from the bravery of the Air Force) would have had to fight on the Japanese Home Islands until their unit(s) or ships became "combat ineffective" and then the survivors would have been rolled into other units as needed, if necessary... No one had any expectations of making it back Home... They never thought the Japanese would surrender based on what they had seen of them...
Those atomic bombs ultimately saved 100s of thousands of Japanese lives too.
 
As I've mentioned before my father was on Tinian at the end of the war in the Pacific and he said that people didn't realize what an incredibly dangerous job those B-29 crews had... He was told (when he first moved to this particular unit) to sleep on the tent floor with his foot locker against the outside wall between him and the airstrip to protect himself from sharpnel from aircraft explosions... He thought his tent mate was just pulling his leg in a sort of screw with the new guy head game prank...

He went to chow area later that evening and returned back to his tentage area to find it and everything around it shredded and flattened by exploding harbor mines that had been on a B-29 that had cracked up on takeoff (no survivors)... He said that sort of thing was a routine occurrence on both takeoff and landings... ( they moved eventually their tents)...

He had seen enough of them crash, that when offered a spot on one of the B-29s that overflew the USS Missouri during the Japanese Surrender Signing Ceremony at the official end of the war, he declined, figuring he had survived the entire war and he wasn't going to take any chances at that point (he'd thought he was a dead man walking after having seen the sand table mock ups of the Japanese defenses that he and his Marines would encounter on Kyushu...). He'd seen enough B-29 guys either crash on take off or landing or just not make it back at all, disappearing somewhere in the North Pacific...

He had a photo taken just below the nose of the Enola Gay (and "may have been" the Officer of the Day that was in charge of transfering the scientists, and the Triggering Device (for the A-bomb) from the USS Indianapolis to shore...

He never claimed that to be the case, or made any big deal about it. He said he didn't have any idea what was in those crates, just that everything was Extremely High Priority...

He also said they (the Marines) knew something was up because the scientists coming ashore were in civilian clothes and they hadn't seen anyone out of uniform and in civilian clothes for over 3 years out there. That and they had them carrying their weapons even in the Secure areas (which was unusual)...

They told the Marines on Tinian about the Bomb fairly soon after they both were dropped... Dad had a friend who did the Beach Defense Survey in the area where the 2nd Marine Division was intending to Land immediately after the Japanese surrender and the guy said that while they (the Marines) were expecting 60% causalites, he figured from what he'd seen that it would have been closer to 80%...

That nuke and all those other bombs dropped by those B-29's saved a Lot of guys (Marines, Army & Navy) who didn't have to hit Kyushu and later Honshu if the ground Invasion of Japan had gone off as originally planned...

The Marines were Very happy with Air Force General Curtis Lemay at the end of war and most felt Trumans decision to drop the nukes probably, almost certainly, saved their lives... The Marines, Army and Navy (while taking nothing away from the bravery of the Air Force) would have had to fight on the Japanese Home Islands until their unit(s) or ships became "combat ineffective" and then the survivors would have been rolled into other units as needed, if necessary... No one had any expectations of making it back Home... They never thought the Japanese would surrender based on what they had seen of them...
I’ve read stuff about the battle on Okinawa. That was a hell hole. The homeland would have been worse.
 
As I've mentioned before my father was on Tinian at the end of the war in the Pacific and he said that people didn't realize what an incredibly dangerous job those B-29 crews had... He was told (when he first moved to this particular unit) to sleep on the tent floor with his foot locker against the outside wall between him and the airstrip to protect himself from sharpnel from aircraft explosions... He thought his tent mate was just pulling his leg in a sort of screw with the new guy head game prank...

He went to chow area later that evening and returned back to his tentage area to find it and everything around it shredded and flattened by exploding harbor mines that had been on a B-29 that had cracked up on takeoff (no survivors)... He said that sort of thing was a routine occurrence on both takeoff and landings... ( they moved eventually their tents)...

He had seen enough of them crash, that when offered a spot on one of the B-29s that overflew the USS Missouri during the Japanese Surrender Signing Ceremony at the official end of the war, he declined, figuring he had survived the entire war and he wasn't going to take any chances at that point (he'd thought he was a dead man walking after having seen the sand table mock ups of the Japanese defenses that he and his Marines would encounter on Kyushu...). He'd seen enough B-29 guys either crash on take off or landing or just not make it back at all, disappearing somewhere in the North Pacific...

He had a photo taken just below the nose of the Enola Gay (and "may have been" the Officer of the Day that was in charge of transfering the scientists, and the Triggering Device (for the A-bomb) from the USS Indianapolis to shore...

He never claimed that to be the case, or made any big deal about it. He said he didn't have any idea what was in those crates, just that everything was Extremely High Priority...

He also said they (the Marines) knew something was up because the scientists coming ashore were in civilian clothes and they hadn't seen anyone out of uniform and in civilian clothes for over 3 years out there. That and they had them carrying their weapons even in the Secure areas (which was unusual)...

They told the Marines on Tinian about the Bomb fairly soon after they both were dropped... Dad had a friend who did the Beach Defense Survey in the area where the 2nd Marine Division was intending to Land immediately after the Japanese surrender and the guy said that while they (the Marines) were expecting 60% causalites, he figured from what he'd seen that it would have been closer to 80%...

That nuke and all those other bombs dropped by those B-29's saved a Lot of guys (Marines, Army & Navy) who didn't have to hit Kyushu and later Honshu if the ground Invasion of Japan had gone off as originally planned...

The Marines were Very happy with Air Force General Curtis Lemay at the end of war and most felt Trumans decision to drop the nukes probably, almost certainly, saved their lives... The Marines, Army and Navy (while taking nothing away from the bravery of the Air Force) would have had to fight on the Japanese Home Islands until their unit(s) or ships became "combat ineffective" and then the survivors would have been rolled into other units as needed, if necessary... No one had any expectations of making it back Home... They never thought the Japanese would surrender based on what they had seen of them...
The Air Force did not exist until after WW2.
Army, Marines and Navy had Air assets of their own.
 
The Air Force did not exist until after WW2.
Army, Marines and Navy had Air assets of their own.

You're right it was the Army Air Corps...

Those bomber wings in Europe and Asia are a big part of what propelled them to gain their status as a stand alone service (USAF) in 1947... The reality..., however, was that most recognized that the Air arm of the Army (the Army Air Corp) had, by as early as 1944, become a stand alone command for all intents and purposes...

By the way, that nomenclature error was mine alone not my father's. He knew who he was working with. He played poker with many of those B-29 pilots and was acutely aware when several of them didn't return from missions to the Japanese Islands... A close friend of his knew Tibbets from a running poker game.
 
Those atomic bombs ultimately saved 100s of thousands of Japanese lives too.

That's correct... They had been training their women and children to conduct suicide attacks with pikes/spears...

All one has to do is look at the Japanese population on Saipan murdering their own children and suiciding themselves, after the battle was already lost, to be able to extrapolate as to what would have gone on once we had landed on Kyushu and later Honshu... (along with the rest of the home islands)...
 
We had dinner a few weeks ago with a lawyer and wife (who taught with my stoker) we hadn’t seen for 5 years or so. When catching up he mentioned a trip to Eastern Europe and visiting town where his dad was hospitalized during WWII.

What followed was a truly amazing story. His dad documented his war experiences a 35 page booklet a copy of which my friend sent to me. I asked him if I can share the story and he said definitely.

Some highlights.

His dad was a B 24 Pilot stationed in Italy. He arrived in April 1944. Fresh out of training and with a 10 person crew (4 officers and 6 enlisted) He flew his brand new B 24 from California, to Florida, to Brazil, to North Africa, and finally to Italy. Good training for his navigator who became is best friend on the crew. The airfield in Italy was dirt, with metal mats on the runway landing zone, tents with dirt floors and no permanent buildings. The nearest Italian village was in bad shape and still recovering from the effects of German occupation. A 13 year-old Italian boy became a good friend. (The boy became a maître d' in Rome and they had a Reunion years after the war) They arrived at the Italian base in considerable sorrow. Just the previous day, only one bomber returned from a mission of 16.. On his very fist mission, to the Ploiesti Oil refinery in Romania, his navigator was killed from flack. (I saw a B 24 at the Wright Patterson Museum and the navigator is like a sitting duck in the nose). His vivid description of the flack guns and shrapnel is like nothing I have read before and I have read a lot about our bombers. He saw B 24's exploding with crew and airplane parts thrown in all directions. On one mission, his bomber was the only one to return from a squadron of 6. On another he has to return to Italy and land with no ailerons. Very difficult. After 50 missions, the airmen would be sent home. The dad reported that he didn't dwell on the considerable danger; his only prayer was that when his time came, death would be quick. On his 50th mission, my friend's dad was shot down. The #2 engine caught fire and they could not put it out, they bailed out before the aircraft exploded. He was the last to leave the burning bomber. As he descended, he heard gun fire from below and assumed they were shooting at the crew and he was over Nazi territory. He waited as long as possible before opening his chute and landed in tall trees, his chute became fouled in the trees and a free fell to the ground from 50 or 60 feet. He injured his spine and couldn't move. Passed out and woke up to kids looking at him, soon adults came and carried him in his chute to a village in Slovenia. He was in the hands of Partisans who hated the Germans but where the Germans hadn't occupied. He was treated by a Jewish refugee doctor who trained in Detroit and spoke fluent English. Placed in a body cast. Finally the Germans came, and he became a POW. Transported to Vienna and taken to a hospital where dozens of downed and injured American Airmen were being cared for. Vienna was an important rail hub for German logistics and troop movement and the Americans regularly bombed it. If the target was clouded they dropped the bombs on the city. When the sirens went off, on a cloudy day, the patients were moved to the basement. In one such raid, the hospital suffered a direct hit, collapsed and he and a few others were buried in total darkness for an unknown length of time. Finally they were dug out by German soldiers. He was taken to Frankfurt and held in a pitch black small cell, literally fed bread and water through a trap door in the ceiling. Again for an unknown period of time because of complete darkness. Then was questioned by the Gestapo and threatened with beatings and a firing squad, both of which happened where he could hear and see. But he was subjected to neither. Yet he only would say name, rank and serial number. His interrogator gave him a file, that amazingly contained his home town, phone number, college, training, route taken to Italy, a description of the base in Italy, and that he was shot down on his 50th mission. He was moved to a POW medical facility and cared for by captured British doctors.. He finally was placed in a POW camp where he had access to supplies from the American Red Cross. He was very thankful for the Red Cross. Then elements of Patton's Third Army liberated the camp and he survived.

Back to the 13 year old Italian boy. The boy waited near the runway for 24 hours with wine and flowers to celebrate his friend's 50th mission. The bomber never landed.

This was truly the greatest generation.

Postscript. The dad/pilot became a successful rancher in Western Nebraska and is a member of the Nebraska Aviation Hall of Fame. When my friend visited the town in Slovenia where his dad was first taken, some of the old timers remembered him.
I assume you've seen Masters of the Air?
 
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Both are masterpieces. 12 O'Clock is phenomenal in showing the stress without the Saving Private Ryan type scenes. You just see the mental damage and leave the exact how it came about to our imagination. I sometimes feel it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

I keep threatening to track down the TV show, I know it is available. I haven't seen it since I was 6 so I don't recall if it was good or not.
I remember it as a kid. It was must-watch TV for our family.
 
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As I've mentioned before my father was on Tinian at the end of the war in the Pacific and he said that people didn't realize what an incredibly dangerous job those B-29 crews had... He was told (when he first moved to this particular unit) to sleep on the tent floor with his foot locker against the outside wall between him and the airstrip to protect himself from sharpnel from aircraft explosions... He thought his tent mate was just pulling his leg in a sort of screw with the new guy head game prank...

He went to chow area later that evening and returned back to his bivouac area to find it and everything around it shredded and flattened by exploding harbor mines that had been on a B-29 that had cracked up on takeoff (no survivors)... He said that sort of thing was a routine occurrence on both takeoff and landings... (they eventually moved their tents)...

He had seen enough of them crash, that when offered a spot on one of the B-29s that overflew the USS Missouri during the Japanese Surrender Signing Ceremony at the official end of the war, he declined, figuring he had survived the entire war and he wasn't going to take any chances at that point (he'd thought he was a dead man walking after having seen the sand table mock ups of the Japanese defenses that he and his Marines would encounter on Kyushu...). He'd seen enough B-29 guys either crash on take off or landing or just not make it back at all, disappearing somewhere in the North Pacific...

He had a photo taken just below the nose of the Enola Gay (and "may have been" the Officer of the Day that was in charge of transfering the scientists, and the Triggering Device (for the A-bomb) from the USS Indianapolis to shore...

He never claimed that to be the case, or made any big deal about it. He said he didn't have any idea what was in those crates, just that everything was Extremely High Priority...

He also said they (the Marines) knew something was up because the scientists coming ashore were in civilian clothes and they hadn't seen anyone out of uniform and in civilian clothes for over 3 years out there. That and they had them carrying their weapons even in the Secure areas (which was unusual)...

They told the Marines on Tinian about the Bomb fairly soon after they both were dropped... Dad had a friend who did the Beach Defense Survey in the area where the 2nd Marine Division was intending to Land immediately after the Japanese surrender and the guy said that while they (the Marines) were expecting 60% causalites, he figured from what he'd seen that it would have been closer to 80%...

That nuke and all those other bombs dropped by those B-29's saved a Lot of guys (Marines, Army & Navy) who didn't have to hit Kyushu and later Honshu if the ground Invasion of Japan had gone off as originally planned...

The Marines were Very happy with Air Force General Curtis Lemay at the end of war and most felt Trumans decision to drop the nukes probably, almost certainly, saved their lives... The Marines, Army and Navy (while taking nothing away from the bravery of the Air Force) would have had to fight on the Japanese Home Islands until their unit(s) or ships became "combat ineffective" and then the survivors would have been rolled into other units as needed, if necessary... No one had any expectations of making it back Home... They never thought the Japanese would surrender based on what they had seen of them...
My friend who I met at an IU football game - I've mentioned him before - was at Omaha Beach on D-Day and hit the beach at H-hour +40 minutes. His unit was sent back to the States after they got to Paris, because it had been in SIcily and N. Africa.

When he got back to the States, they assigned him to a unit going to Okinawa and he was in the Army unit that landed there. He was set to go to Japan before the A-bombs went off.

He was Assistant Superindendant at Elkhart schools and his son and daughter were criticizing the used of the atomic bombs and he told them if it wasn't for that, they wouldn't be here.

He would talk about D-Day and his time in France. He never talked about Okinawa and I didn't ask - I knew better.
 
Great book related to the topic.

The Forgotten 500


During a bombing campaign over Romanian oil fields, hundreds of American airmen were shot down in Nazi-occupied Yugoslavia. Local Serbian farmers and peasants risked their own lives to give refuge to the soldiers while they waited for rescue, and in 1944, Operation Halyard was born. The risks were incredible. The starving Americans in Yugoslavia had to construct a landing strip large enough for C-47 cargo planes—without tools, without alerting the Germans, and without endangering the villagers. And the cargo planes had to make it through enemy airspace and back—without getting shot down themselves.
 
My friend who I met at an IU football game - I've mentioned him before - was at Omaha Beach on D-Day and hit the beach at H-hour +40 minutes. His unit was sent back to the States after they got to Paris, because it had been in SIcily and N. Africa.

When he got back to the States, they assigned him to a unit going to Okinawa and he was in the Army unit that landed there. He was set to go to Japan before the A-bombs went off.

He was Assistant Superindendant at Elkhart schools and his son and daughter were criticizing the used of the atomic bombs and he told them if it wasn't for that, they wouldn't be here.

He would talk about D-Day and his time in France. He never talked about Okinawa and I didn't ask - I knew better.

Evidently a lot of people still aren't aware of the Fact that Army Air Corp General Lemay was systematically Fire bombing the Japanese cities right up to the time of the two atomic bombings...

The general attitude at the time reflected that of what Navy Admiral Halsey is reported to have uttered upon seeing the wreckage of the Pearl Harbor anchorage: "Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will be only spoken in hell."

It was a no quarter environment and for good reason...; the military knew very well of documented instances of the torture and murder of American prisoners and captured civilians by the Japanese and had seen what they were willing to do to their own children on Saipan... The level of "sympathy" towards the Japanese populace was pretty near zero by August of 1945...
 
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Evidently a lot of people still aren't aware of the Fact that Army Air Corp General Lemay was systematically Fire bombing the Japanese cities right up to the time of the two atomic bombings...

The general attitude at the time reflected that of what Navy Admiral Halsey is reported to have uttered upon seeing the wreckage of the Pearl Harbor anchorage: "Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will only be spoken will be in hell."

It was a no quarter environment and for good reason... The military knew very well of documented instances of the torture and murder of American prisoners and captured civilians by the Japanese and had seen what they were willing to do to there own children on Saipan... The level of "sympathy" towards the Japanese populace was pretty near zero by August of 1945...
That's right. More people died in firebombing than by nuclear bombs. It was the shock value of instant destruction and devastation that finally forced the Japanese to surrender. And, even then, some of the military tried to stop the Emperor from surrendering.

WWII in the Pacific was killed or be killed. Simple as that.
 
Great book related to the topic.

The Forgotten 500


During a bombing campaign over Romanian oil fields, hundreds of American airmen were shot down in Nazi-occupied Yugoslavia. Local Serbian farmers and peasants risked their own lives to give refuge to the soldiers while they waited for rescue, and in 1944, Operation Halyard was born. The risks were incredible. The starving Americans in Yugoslavia had to construct a landing strip large enough for C-47 cargo planes—without tools, without alerting the Germans, and without endangering the villagers. And the cargo planes had to make it through enemy airspace and back—without getting shot down themselves.
Ordering that today
 
Another example of applying modern standards to the past. WW2 was total war. It wasn't just military against military. Damn near everyone in their countries was involved in some capacity.

The Japanese had a fanatical, insane devotion to Japan and the emperor. People think Okinawa was bad, which it was, invading the mainland would have nearly eradicated the Japanese.

Can't forget what they did to the Chinese when questioning the bomb.
 
You're right it was the Army Air Corps...

Those bomber wings in Europe and Asia are a big part of what propelled them to gain their status as a stand alone service (USAF) in 1947... The reality..., however, was that most recognized that the Air arm of the Army (the Army Air Corp) had, by as early as 1944, become a stand alone command for all intents and purposes...

By the way, that nomenclature error was mine alone not my father's. He knew who he was working with. He played poker with many of those B-29 pilots and was acutely aware when several of them didn't return from missions to the Japanese Islands... A close friend of his knew Tibbets from a running poker game.
My father enlisted 6 months before he turned 18 in June 1940. Army Air Corps in New Guinea.
 
Great book related to the topic.

The Forgotten 500


During a bombing campaign over Romanian oil fields, hundreds of American airmen were shot down in Nazi-occupied Yugoslavia. Local Serbian farmers and peasants risked their own lives to give refuge to the soldiers while they waited for rescue, and in 1944, Operation Halyard was born. The risks were incredible. The starving Americans in Yugoslavia had to construct a landing strip large enough for C-47 cargo planes—without tools, without alerting the Germans, and without endangering the villagers. And the cargo planes had to make it through enemy airspace and back—without getting shot down themselves.
I have that book in my collection but haven't gotten to it yet. Might move it up in the lineup!
 
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