11 points from IU guards against Harvard.....
- Thread starter Tru2Irish
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Reneau Is similar to TJD in that he has a very strong hand preference. He wants the ball on the right side of the basket then drive into the lane for a jump hook from 4’ or so. I expect he will have an increasingly tough time avoiding a double team to take that sequence away. Then it depends on passing out to someone that can hit a jumper.
One thing to consider... guys like Galloway, Gunn, X, Cupps...will probably hit shots at a higher rate if/when teams start collapsing more on Ware and Reneau. X and Galloway have shown that they will, anyways. Obviously Gunn hasn't, and Cupps is unproven...but stands to reason, they'll fare better with more space.
I've been very active pushing the need to change our style of offense...and I still believe that to be true...but we do have decided advantages inside against most of the teams on our schedule. When teams adjust to that, and try to take it away, it'll leave our perimeter guys more space and room than they've seen thus far... in all likelihood. I don't think that'll produce "enough" perimeter production for us to be a high level offense...but I think it'll naturally lead to more production from the guards than we've seen thus far.
Galloway? He looks lost offensively to me. Looks like a guy shooting because he knows he's supposed to, but doesn't believe it's going in. Shooting 44/16/65% on the season so not a high rate in any aspect.
I do think MM's shot looks good and he was shooting with confidence last night. Hope that continues.
Last year, nearly all his shots came from TJD/Race type kickouts, wiiiidddee open. This year, not nearly as many. I think he'll start knocking down shots at a better clip when/if teams start really collapsing down hard on our bigs...
I'll agree he looks like everything is indecisive and forced this year. Its easy to see us "reverting" fully back to our double post/high low/big man focused offense. I don't agree with that, but it is probably going to be the most efficient offense we can run, at this point. And I think Trey will end up being more comfortable when teams start adjusting and fully guarding our strengths, how they did last year.
"One thing to consider... guys like Galloway, Gunn, X, Cupps...will probably hit shots at a higher rate if/when teams start collapsing more on Ware and Reneau. X and Galloway have shown that they will, anyways. Obviously Gunn hasn't, and Cupps is unproven...but stands to reason, they'll fare better with more space." Six games in.....that hasn't happened yet. There is something fundamentally wrong with the schemes, the coaching and the player confidence/focus on the perimeter. The bigs are more motivated to fire from beyond the arc than the guards are. (likely to round out their game for the pro prospects).
agreed...but I suspect it'll improve a bit when teams start sucking back in more and truly doubling Ware and Reneau. I haven't seen a ton of that from our opponents thus far.
The obvious argument in favor of playing offensively how we have in the first 2 years and some change, is it plays to our best players strengths. I think that's obvious. But 2 full offseasons is an eternity to shape your roster, and style, however you want...these days. Woody has went after guards since he's arrived, he's landed some good ones in JHS, Cupps, and Newton...and I think McNeeley is a guy that will help stretch things a bit... But it doesn't take too much time analyzing it to see what Woody has focused on and valued...size and length.
He had to keep...and then replace TJD and Race, and he tried to get some good perimeter guys, so its not like he's overtly neglecting the back court. But he didn't have to sign Ware, Sparks, Mack, and Walker, this offseason. He could have cast a much wider net with perimeter guys, and increased his chances of landing a couple guys that would have allowed him to change his style of play. There are SOOOO many more high level guards running around AAU gyms, and on mid/lower level college teams, than there are bigs. He should literally reach out to 40-50 of them, and take the first 2-3 good ones that would come.
This is all rich coming from me, who was not an advocate for reaching on marginal perimeter prospects this offseason. But I was assuming Newton would be healthy, and throughout the process, I assumed he'd land at least 1 main rotation level guy. If Newton had been healthy, and we had another main rotation perimeter player, our team could look completely different.
Now...I think our style is so limiting...that I think he needs to reach and reshape the roster this offseason and flip the roster to be 7-8 guards, 2-3 wings, 2-3 bigs. Even if that means not having as many 5 star level kids.
VanPastorMan
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I'd love to see us push the pace more and think overall we have the roster to do it, but ironically, it may be that it's our primary ball handlers who don't. Neither XJ or Cupps seem to really push the pace, but I think pushing the pace would help our team, assuming we lock up the rebound!
Gunn's was ruled a 2 because he was on the line, as was the early one MM hit. I swear they didn't review that until about 5 minutes in. Don't think I ever recall them reviewing a shot that late (had to be at least 5 minutes in, because I think it took our score from 17 to 16).
Definitely...it has looked like we're trying to push it up the floor more, at times. I think its had mixed results, thus far. But I agree...that's a pretty reliable formula for national success...Defend, rebound, push for transition opportunities.
Galloway, and the bigs ironically, have been pretty aggressive pushing for transition opportunities. X and Gabe haven't, as much, agreed.
Perhaps he’s focused on competing in the conference as far as roster management goes. Playing big physical teams in the conference can influence roster construction and style.
I'm sure he has his reasons...and that very well could be one of them.
Seems like a "path of least resistance" type of approach thus far...and the results have been mixed, at best.
But to be fair, he has changed the trajectory of the program in a positive way. And this season has yet to play out, obviously. I just worry about some of the fundamental issues we've seen, and his inability or unwillingness to change the roster/program to a more modern, perimeter focused program.
Its obviously not outlandish to focus a lot on guys like TJD, Race, JHS, Ware, and Reneau...they're all really good basketball players. I just think he's missing opportunities to reshape the program for longer term success...and its not like the path he's choosing is having resounding success as it is.
good point....TJD always knew the double teams were coming and became as good as any big in the country in kicking out to open man on perimeter. Also helped having a guy like Kopp out there who the defense knew had to be played closely. All that is presently missing in this year's squad.
Right now Trey looks all out of sorts out there on offense. He's much more suited as a super-sub high energy sixth man, not a pure 2 guard who can light it up. Never has been that type of player. He's athletic, can run and jump with the best, a slasher type and good on the break. But he's limited playing the perimeter in a plodding half court offense.
Whatever happened to the arugument that we did not need portal guards cause gunn would be ready to give major minutes? We basically have three guards. Good think we kept that grant wide open!
Funny I was just thinking that on Sunday. How deadly this team would be with a true floor general loke Yogi that could also shoot the ball
If Mgbako initiates a set as a 1, is he a guard? If he's in the 2 slot in a set is he a two-guard? If a team runs 3 'guards', which one is the forward? When Trey goes to the corner in a set, which is generally the 3 spot in most plays, is he now a forward? If Mack was 6'6 instead of 6'8 but lined up as a 3 in a set, would his points count as guard points or forward points?
How about fast MF'ers that can handle the ball, shoot, set up other players for buckets, and create their own shots off the dribble?
Sorry, we don't have any of those except X on a good day .. should we cry about it or just play the hand dealt?
fwiw - I don't get why Mack has been pushed to the interior position when he plays on the perimeter... he had an effortless 18 but that's being discounted because the points didn't come from the 1 or 2? WGAFF which position scores from the perimeter? We need perimeter scoring, we finally get some and the cherry-picked complaint is it doesn't come from the 1 or 2 spot.
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Revisionist history. There never was an argument. Good grief, how many guards/wings did we go after late and in the portal? We just whiffed.
I'm not sure our bigs are really getting up the floor the way they could. Particularly Ware, who I don't recall ever really sprinting back. Doesn't do any good to go fast up the court if there aren't mismatches when you get there.
all our bigs run well, even Sparks. I think it's a tactic that would work vs Edey especially because he's slow and I thought he was gassed vs MU. I'd have his guy meet him at half court and fight him for position all the way down to the lane and try and frustrate and tire him out. On O, I'd push it and look for scoring opps before Edey is even down the floor.
They can run. But they don't always. Not like TJD did last year. If Ware will start running the court like that he'll be at a whole other level.
I agree it is revisionist in that we did indeed go after a number of guards/wings.
That being said….During the off season I posted that we needed to land a triple threat 2 guard, and that I wanted to see Trey as a Sheehey (in his junior year) type guy off the bench, and some reacted as though I took a dump on a slice of All American apple pie.
Well Trey is white and from Indiana. That makes him a hell of a bball player in a lot of folks mind from this state.
. Why do you think everyone thought Cupps was a god walking in at 6’ nothing ranked 150th in his class?"But he does alot of things that don't show up in the box score." I have heard that too many times in here. The White Kid from Indiana comment is prophetic.Well Trey is white and from Indiana. That makes him a hell of a bball player in a lot of folks mind from this state.
They had shots [guards] but looked terrible at it. Galloway is erratic at best. Cupps needs to settle down. X just seems to either be prone to injury or isn't happy not being the star!
The former unfortunately with his feet. He actually knows that he isn't playing well (assist rate is down a ton), and told me he would change that. Self awareness is good.
Care to elaborate on the “feet” comment?
Coming off his injury from last year I’m sure any rational person would have concerns on how that surgery would hold up, not to mention the risk of a different injury (other foot, soft tissue, etc.) .
I don’t know the details of the injury, but the other foot is now for sure a concern and I would expect IU to be very cautious on his return. I hope he rests till he is 100%, because if he really messes it up we are done IMO.
Well you're probably not entirely wrong but both are coaches kids, recruited pretty heavily, etc. Plenty of "white kids" on the roster who most people probably could not even name. Trey had 5 assists vs. Harvard. The rest of his stat line was not remarkable but that's at least 10 points in my book.
Knecht with 37 pts two min to go vs UNC. Damn we could have really used him.
I jinxed him. One min later rolls his ankle and had to be carried off the court.
I jinxed him. One min later rolls his ankle and had to be carried off the court.
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