But it hasn't come close to working at IU and, if the issue is depth, then either get it or run something else. Regardless, KW and his high octane offense hasn't been good enough to overcome his horrid defense and dismal special teams in 80% of the Big Ten games he's coached. I'm all for giving him sufficient time to build the program, but when will it be okay to question whether he's the right guy?
Win or lose extend CKW's contract
- Thread starter 82hoosier
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Unfortunately we're in between a rock and a hard place right now. I for one think that Wilson is no longer the head coach we need, but at the same time, who are we going to get? So far this season there are already so many head coaching positions that have opened up for better off programs that even if we fire Wilson there's a good chance we're stuck having to hire Al Golden or Derek Dooley because any other coach wanting to look for a new job will be able to find one at a school that's going to be willing to support them more than IU will.
High profile jobs open up every year, including this year. Get out and sell the university and the commitment to football. And bring a really big checkbook to show you mean business. Otherwise, accept being at the bottom of the conference and do your best to control expenses.
Big jobs open every year, true, but have we had this many jobs open up this early? And you know that as the season ends there will be more. Miami, both USCs, they're already open. On a lower tier we got Maryland and Illinois both looking for new coaches. So are North Texas and UCF. Now, while we ought to beat out North Texas for a coach, I feel like if I were a coach and had the choice to go to either IU or UCF I'd choose UCF. And there's only going to be more open positions as the year goes along, and I wouldn't be surprised if another big player, Texas or Tennessee to name a couple, might end up looking for a new coach as well.
If IU can't outsell ucf, then they'd better really control expenses, and Illinois will probably keep Cubit. The other guys are shopping at a different store. That's part of what IU needs to change.
A good defensive coach would not come here next year if Wilson is not extended because there would be absolutely know job security and the coaching staff could be fired the next year.
To me this sounds like you are saying that high profile job every year and we should go out and sell the program so to me you were saying that this was a high profile job.
That's not close to what I said. The excuse was that IU shouldn't get into the market for a new coach because several high profile jobs were open thus draining the talent pool. I said high profile jobs open every year and it's not a reason to delay letting go a coach if that is warranted. Not sure how you came to the conclusion you did.
Don't kill the recruiting....... that kind of thinking got us Mike Davis as BB coach.
When we start worrying about losing current or future players, we're falling into a trap. In the business world, there is sunk cost - it's in the past. Going forward, you can't be held back by past bad investments.
Let's not be held hostage by 'recruiting' by a coach that can't put up enough Ws.
Recruiting is already sliding back to Lynch levels
hell, 6 out of the 10 guys listed are 2-stars
Can't go off the number of stars a kid has. Some highly ranked kids don't work out-some over achieve. CKW and his staff have done a great job identifying talent and closing. Most of these kids have multiple offers. A two star from Ohio or Georgia might be a 3 star or even 4 star elsewhere. There's a lot of recruiting season left.
Sure, I can.
Plenty of evidence that the schools that land 4- and 5-star players generally outperform schools that land 2- and 3-stars.
It's science
I would dispute that recruiting is sliding back to Lynch levels. It's October for God's sake, the kids we are recruiting are still in their high school season and can't even sign for 3 1/2 months. Plenty of time for things to change drastically. If our coach's future is unsettled, however, recruiting will certainly be in the toilet, and probably will be anyway if we make a change.
While the number of stars is certainly a factor in predicting success, it's far from science. If it were science the outcomes would be predictable and certain. The team with the highest-rated recruits would always win. I'm not going to the trouble of doing the research, but I'd bet my house that doesn't always happen.
You are correct Sope. I say extend his contract at least another 3 years and let him to continue to build. I wonder if the powers behind the scenes at IU are that smart. Firing him now will destroy recruiting for next year and also cause several transfers from this team. Come on people use your heads.
This is going to be a very tough year to be looking for a HC. IU will be left looking at either retreads or trying to pluck that gem out of the lower conferences. Neither one is a great scenario. Unless we absolutely implode and lose out, then I would have no problem with giving KW a 3 year extension with a super low buyout. If IU goes 6-6, which is still totally realistic, then we go to a bowl. That earns him an extension right there. Beating Iowa at home, Maryland on the road and Purdue on the road are all possibilities. I certainly don't think we will win all 3 of those games, but they are all winnable.
Now let's say IU goes 5-7 with another bucket win over Purdue. Do we really want to fire him? In my mind, establishing a nice winning streak over Purdue is just as important as going bowling. Let's not kid ourselves, if we could go 6-6 every year and beat Purdue regularly, what IU football fan wouldn't take that in a heartbeat??? I know that I would!!! KW is close to establishing that now. He might even do it this season. It's right there for the taking. He controls his own destiny in so many ways right now.
Now let's say IU goes 5-7 with another bucket win over Purdue. Do we really want to fire him? In my mind, establishing a nice winning streak over Purdue is just as important as going bowling. Let's not kid ourselves, if we could go 6-6 every year and beat Purdue regularly, what IU football fan wouldn't take that in a heartbeat??? I know that I would!!! KW is close to establishing that now. He might even do it this season. It's right there for the taking. He controls his own destiny in so many ways right now.
1967 ... IU
The team with no history is Iowa State ... zero titles in Big 8 or 12.
I agree with everything you said except for the interview. Who invites someone to their show and then makes fun of the guest's team before they have their guest on the show? Just a couples of tools who deserved what he gave them in defense of the program and players.
What do you mean, "if IU can't outsell UCF??" UCF just had the greatest game in their history in the Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago. There is talk in Florida that they may become part of the ACC. It is warm year round, the beach is 30 minutes away, Disney and Universal is 15 minutes away. New on campus stadium. UCF has the largest undergrad population in the US, as of this year, and it is a fun campus atmosphere. Let's not forget that the central Florida area is one of the major recruiting areas in all the US and there are HS teams with more Rivals ranked players on a single team as in the entire state of Indiana. (IMG Academy where former Carmel coach Kevin Wright coaches now, has over 19 players that are seniors with 2 stars or better and has 10 w/ 4 or 5 stars and another 8 juniors with 4 stars or better) There are over 200+ rivals 2-star players or better in central Florida alone and over 500+ in Florida all together with rankings, and over 1000+ mentioned as potential recruits and that is just the seniors this year. In the juniors, there is another 75 central Florida ranked players 125 total ranked so far and 500+ prospects. And, they can play close to home. The entire total of Indiana ranked HS prospects is 27, So..... explain to me how Bloomington is an easier sell?? Cold weather, small city, no attractions (well, I guess you can say Brown County), poor history of success in football, a "basketball school", no committment to the football program etc. So tell me again how IU is an easier sell?
UCF isn't likely to ever be admitted to the ACC based on academics alone (it's so large because it's uber easy to get admitted). Not every kid is cut out to attend school in the Big Ten and deal with the academic rigors presented by it. But any coach will want to compete on that stage rather than the one presented by UCF, which isn't close.
Hmmm . . . well, Louisville is in the ACC. Is UL an outstanding academic institution? IIRC, any discussion on Peegs from time to time about UL joining the BiG 10 was snuffed out by citing academic concerns . . . if the ACC lowered its academic standards to admit UL, would it be far fetched to think it might admit UCF?
Now it may be that the ACC didn't lower its standards to admit UL . . . but I don't think UL is BiG 10 academic quality, and because of that I wouldn't have thought it was ACC academic quality either.
Beats me; but I've never considered UL to be a top academic school like the rest of the ACC schools are - yes, including Clemson and FShoeU. I will happily admit that I am wrong if someone wants to do the research and prove to me that UL ranks right up there with Duke, Wake Forest, UNC (well, other than the athletic tutoring program . . .), Virginia, VA Tech, NC State, BC, GA Tech . . . .
It's not my impression that Louisville is a perfect fit academically in the ACC but it's interesting that the beauty contest involved several candidates (WV wanted in a few years ago and was told no, and UC, Memphis, UCF and USF all lobbied for inclusion). Maybe Louisville was the trade school valedictorian who made the cut, delivering a combination of decent academics and excellent athletics in a stew just acceptable enough to Swofford and his minions.
This is incorrect. UCF doesn't yet have the research production of many major conference institutions, and its path to academic relevancy is young, but it's just as hard to get into UCF as it is to several of ACC and B1G institutions (including IU). It still suffers from the commuter school moniker of its first few decades, but the freshman profile reads as: Average ACT - 27.6; Average GPA 4.0; Admissions rate - 49%. That's nothing to sneeze at. Perfectly respectable academic institution. It just lacks 150 years of prestige building that many institutions benefit from.
Have been told by several Florida residents that UCF and USF are the schools of choice for kids who can't get into FSU and UF, which is why their growth has been so big.
That is generally true, but it does not mean that the numbers I gave you are incorrect or that either are easy schools to get into. The numbers are accurate and disprove your point about ease of access.
The fact is that it is very difficult to get into UF and (slightly less) FSU, and difficult to get into UCF and USF (as I said, just as difficult/more difficult than many power conference schools). There are over 20 million Florida residents - UF and FSU simply can't meet the need of such a large state alone, allowing schools like UCF and USF to capitalize on really bright students left out of the admissions process of the flagships. It's more akin to a California situation in which there are multiple schools with very rigorous admissions standards simply because of the sheer size of the state.
So, again, the point is that to say that UCF wouldn't get ACC/P5 entry because the admissions standards are too lax is simply foolish. It's based on faulty perception and not fact. There are lots of valid reasons to discuss regarding the likelihood of an invitation, but that's not one.
Are you at familiar with UCF or did you merely look up statistics to try to make your point? If so, you obviously know nothing of the Florida public schools. Talk about a foolish and ignorant post.
Just the facts (from the University of Central Florida website):
How competitive is UCF?
For freshmen, the mid-range (middle 50%) of our Fall 2015 entering class was:
- GPA : 3.7 – 4.3
(recalculated academic core) - SAT : 1190 – 1310
(critical reading and math) - SAT : 1760 – 1940
(critical reading, math, and writing) - ACT : 25 – 29
(composite)
When Cameron was fired IU could not line up a coach until January. The program had a terrible recruiting class and the the program was set back several years (and that is being kind). IU landed recruits that years who's biggest accolade was being named all-county.
I suggest stopping. It doesn't matter if you get each ACC president to publicly state UCF meets their academic requirements Dana will still not admit he was wrong. As you can see when presented with facts he replies with insults. It is what it is
I'm starting to think ordfan got another username
I would hope we'd have an AD who is more competent than McNeeley.
Ironic that the coach he wanted then has ended up the coach of Nebraska now. And his wife ended up in Nebraska - what an exciting place - instead of Indiana, which is where she refused to move.
Did Gene Smith tell you about Florida public schools too? I'm sure he mentioned they shot up like a bullet to 168 in the 2015 US News ranking of US colleges. It's amazing that you and the other poster don't think IU can compete with that.
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You refuse to maintain any consistent conversation because you've been proven wrong. You asserted that it was uber easy to get into UCF. You are factually incorrect. You've been given proof.
Once proven wrong, you reply with a sweeping generalization that you heard something from a friend. Actually does not matter or prove anything. You're still wrong.
Then you continue to insult and cite a straw man argument of U.S. News rankings, which are, again, unrelated to your original assertion.
Best of all, you know what other school is tied at 168? Recently added ACC member, Louisville. So, to say that by admissions standards or U.S. News ranking, UCF is obviously too inferior to be admitted to the ACC, is silly. UCF has higher admissions standards, brings in more research dollars, and is tied (via a completely arbitrary ranking) with a recent conference addition.
Do I think IU is a better school than UCF? I do. But 1) that's unrelated to your original assertion, and 2) UCF can compete on some measures, one of them being admissions standards, which you mocked. I forgot more today about higher education in the US than you'll know collectively in your whole life.
Really, though, if UCF goes anywhere, it gets a Big XII invite. Keep being simple. You really add a lot of enjoyment to the board. Everyone really appreciates your wild and usually factually incorrect assertions.
UCF is overwhelmingly comprised of Florida kids who are products of substandard public schools. They can't get into UF or FSU which is why UCF and USF have flourished in size. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and some generic admissions research on their website proves nothing, with the possible exception that you're not terribly smart. And here I thought you just had idiotic views about football but it turns out you're stupid on several fronts. And since Luke is reading this, I'm sure he'll chime in with another lie. He's already been proven so dishonest that he now runs like a coward, so you're in good company. And a Big 12 invitation? You don't follow college sports, do you?
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Ever find those newspaper articles citing the NEZ and SEZ costs? You know, the ones that you made up? Funny how that always happens with you.
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