Where can Jews

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That is ridiculous. You ignore 5K years of documented history and are limiting the sovereignty to the time in which they established independence from the 5th empirical dynasty.

By that logic, Palestine has no claim on Israel, since Israel was established in 1948.

Did I do it right?

Also having a hard time getting over "empirical dynasty."

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Also having a hard time getting over "empirical dynasty."

That was a good one. Typing on a phone got me there.

Now how about the argument overall?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That was a good one. Typing on a phone got me there.

Now how about the argument overall?

I already did.

 

[stollcpa]

No generalization. Just want to point out that if you and Stoll got together with a bunch of other French-German Americans and migrated to Alsace, and then declared independence as the reborn state of Lotharingia, you'd be laughed off the stage, and rightfully so.

Israel has a right to exist, but it has nothing to do with the fact there was a Jewish state 2500 years ago.

Stoll isn’t trying to start a new State anywhere.

Are you questioning whether Israel is a legitimate Country?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Stoll isn’t trying to start a new State anywhere.

Are you questioning whether Israel is a legitimate Country?

Keep reading. I'm saying that Israel's legitimacy has nothing to do with Ancient Israel.

 

[stollcpa]

Keep reading. I'm saying that Israel's legitimacy has nothing to do with Ancient Israel.

Ok. Agree.

 

[DANC]

No generalization. Just want to point out that if you and Stoll got together with a bunch of other French-German Americans and migrated to Alsace, and then declared independence as the reborn state of Lotharingia, you'd be laughed off the stage, and rightfully so.

Israel has a right to exist, but it has nothing to do with the fact there was a Jewish state 2500 years ago.

Sure, that's a fair comparison.

You know the Alsace-Lorraine area was also German at one time, right? War determined its nationality, just as Israel's was decided.

 

[DANC]

But if my ancestors had formed the state of Lotharingia 3000 years beforehand, doesn't that make the argument a bit different? Particularly if it was at the direction of God?

Doesn't have anything to do with God. Jews had lived there for centuries and were buying up land in the area long before WWII. the Arab world sided with the Nazis and the UN designated that as a Jewish state, along with a Palestinian state. They were supposed to live together, but the Arab countries went to war. It's not difficult.

Israel won the war and got the land. That's how countries are formed.

 

[DANC]

I thought you wanted to have an "intellectual discussion." This ain't it.

I'd rather see an intelligent discussion more than an intellectual one.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

War determined its nationality, just as Israel's was decided.

That was a major plot point of my posts.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

I already did.

I just saw that.

I do agree that some Palestinian people, particularly the Christian Palestinians, have genetic characteristics that link them tightly to the ancient Israelites. That further complicates the discussion.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Doesn't have anything to do with God. Jews had lived there for centuries and were buying up land in the area long before WWII. the Arab world sided with the Nazis and the UN designated that as a Jewish state, along with a Palestinian state. They were supposed to live together, but the Arab countries went to war. It's not difficult.

Israel won the war and got the land. That's how countries are formed.

Why had they lived there for centuries?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I just saw that.

I do agree that some Palestinian people, particularly the Christian Palestinians, have genetic characteristics that link them tightly to the ancient Israelites. That further complicates the discussion.

I thought you wanted to be serious.

 

[UncleMark]

But if my ancestors had formed the state of Lotharingia 3000 years beforehand, doesn't that make the argument a bit different? Particularly if it was at the direction of God?

Direction of God? Please tell me you're not going to consider that a factor. Do the settlers have a "divine right" to the lands of the West Bank?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Direction of God? Please tell me you're not going to consider that a factor. Do the settlers have a "divine right" to the lands of the West Bank?

Plus if they only get the lands God gave them, then they have to give up all of the Negev south of Beersheba, since that actually belonged to the Edomites.

 

[DANC]

Why had they lived there for centuries?

Duh!

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Direction of God? Please tell me you're not going to consider that a factor. Do the settlers have a "divine right" to the lands of the West Bank?

According to the Muslims’, who control Palestine, own holy scriptures, the answer is unequivocally yes.

 

[UncleMark]

According to the Muslims’, who control Palestine, own holy scriptures, the answer is unequivocally yes.

Nevermind.

 

[Hoosier in Mad Town]

Nevermind.

You did know that, right? The Quran is one of 4 holy scriptures accords to Mohammed. Along with the Tawrat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms) and Injil (Gospels).

And are you to suggest that worldview, rooted in God, doesn’t impact this particular issue?

 

[UncleMark]

You did know that, right? The Quran is one of 4 holy scriptures accords to Mohammed. Along with the Tawrat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms) and Injil (Gospels).

And are you to suggest that worldview, rooted in God, doesn’t impact this particular issue?

I can't abide any worldview that involves "divine right." That takes rationality off the table.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You did know that, right? The Quran is one of 4 holy scriptures accords to Mohammed. Along with the Tawrat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms) and Injil (Gospels).

And are you to suggest that worldview, rooted in God, doesn’t impact this particular issue?

I love watching Christians try to explain Islam by quoting what their pastors said about Islam.

 

[BradStevens]

I love watching Christians try to explain Islam by quoting what their pastors said about Islam.

Thank God we have the Book of Mormon, guaranteeing the Americas to all those who follow Jesus Christ!

 

[IUINSB]

I'd rather see an intelligent discussion more than an intellectual one.

You are in the wrong place for either.