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Thoughts on last night, and IUs future

Obviously they're a good team. I said as much. But lets not make them out to be something they aren't. You're making them out to be the Warriors...they aren't. They aren't even a modern style team, as you claimed. Throughout the season, they play one of the slowest paces of any team in the nation. They are literally the WCC version of Wisconsin.

Speaking of Wisconsin, they lost to them in a strikingly similar fashion, and margin, to what we did in our games with them. They also lost to Colorado State, BYU, Santa Clara, San Diego State, and obviously Gonzaga. And their wins over tournament level teams were nearly all close games.

So, I repeat, they aren't good enough to do to us what they did last night. Their talent level doesn't suggest it. Their recent history in games this year doesn't suggest it. And their school history doesn't suggest it.
Wisconsin beat St. Mary's 61-55. But the way some are talking I would expect this St. Marys team to make the final four!! But like you stated they they lost to the above teams and barely beat Notre Dame. We simply cannot hit three pointers and you are going to have to knock down outside shots to beat them. I will not be shocked if UCLA beats them but the talk of this machine team would make me think some of you think it is a final four team.
 
that comment alone tells you how good St Marys and their team and system are: you wouldn't be surprised if the higher-rated West Coast powerhouse that has a higher rated bench players than St Marys, beats them? No, me neither. But I do think they're going to be motivated and give them a game and I won't be at all surprised of St Marys beats them.
Vegas has the line at 3. Bet it's a one or two possession game either way. UCLA going to have to hit some perimeter shots.
 
Yeah the 50-12 run was weird and was definitely a combination of mental/physical fatigue on top of IU lacking any kind of consistency throughout the year. Saw glimpses of it in the BTT, but IU all year lacked on court leadership that prevents something like that from happening. Doesn't hurt that St. Mary's played pretty much flawless until they called off the dogs.
I don't even know what I'm searching for here...ha ha. But I'm also not buying the fatigue angle. These are college athletes. Playing a sport where in middle school and high school, they spend all their summers traveling all across the country, playing 2,3.4 games a day, 7-10 over a weekend usually. All usually at a much more frenetic pace than what we see in college games. And they do so, without the benefit of nutritionists, strength and conditioning coaches, chartered flights. And that's not even taking into account the adrenaline and excitement of playing in the NCAA tournament, on national TV, etc...

And again, this comes from someone that flys a lot, and even posted yesterday that St Mary's would have a decided advantage...being in their own time zone, not having to fly overnight, etc...

But as a college aged athlete, fatigue shouldn't have led to what happened last night.

Obviously its mental. And to me, its obvious they just quit. Which is weird, as these same kids hadn't done that all year long.
 
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Wisconsin beat St. Mary's 61-55. But the way some are talking I would expect this St. Marys team to make the final four!! But like you stated they they lost to the above teams and barely beat Notre Dame. We simply cannot hit three pointers and you are going to have to knock down outside shots to beat them. I will not be shocked if UCLA beats them but the talk of this machine team would make me think some of you think it is a final four team.
Great point. They play that packline (a lot better than Coach Miller's) defense which forces teams to shoot outside. IU just didn't have the outside guys to do it well.
 
Wisconsin beat St. Mary's 61-55. But the way some are talking I would expect this St. Marys team to make the final four!! But like you stated they they lost to the above teams and barely beat Notre Dame. We simply cannot hit three pointers and you are going to have to knock down outside shots to beat them. I will not be shocked if UCLA beats them but the talk of this machine team would make me think some of you think it is a final four team.
Absolutely no reason to think St. Mary's can't make the F4. With the way they defend they will be in every game. They make shots like they did last night they are going to be a tough out for anyone.
 
Ummm, good but not great? We must've watched 2 different games. And if you're talking "program" vs team, the only thing that's kept them from being a great mid-major is Gonzaga. They've been really good for a good while now. That was just the college version of the NBA game: perimeter oriented, move the ball and get a 3 or a layup and they executed it perfectly. We were tired, but we weren't beating that team last night no matter how well we played. That was a Model T vs a horse drawn wagon and we know how that turned out.

I thought they were fantastic and fun to watch if it weren't my Hoosiers being cut up and thrown to the floor. I am looking forward to watching them vs UCLA. Don't think they don't relish the chance to take down the Goliath on the west coast, and I hope they do. Congrats Gaels and good luck!
They are not 30 points better than IU. 10 points? Maybe. Probably. I believe that was Norths point with the good not great comment. Semantics I guess.
 
Ummm, good but not great? We must've watched 2 different games. And if you're talking "program" vs team, the only thing that's kept them from being a great mid-major is Gonzaga. They've been really good for a good while now. That was just the college version of the NBA game: perimeter oriented, move the ball and get a 3 or a layup and they executed it perfectly. We were tired, but we weren't beating that team last night no matter how well we played. That was a Model T vs a horse drawn wagon and we know how that turned out.

I thought they were fantastic and fun to watch if it weren't my Hoosiers being cut up and thrown to the floor. I am looking forward to watching them vs UCLA. Don't think they don't relish the chance to take down the Goliath on the west coast, and I hope they do. Congrats Gaels and good luck!
Agree about Saint Mary's! I was already becoming a believer in watching replays of their games. I think they were already good, but improved greatly as the season went on. This is not a strong season for college hoops, so I'm going to bet Saint Mary's the rest of the way. They destroyed us yesterday the way we did Maryland back in 81. Baylor's perimeter defense might get them, if not I think they'll get to the Final Four. Which is probably the kiss of death and UCLA gives them a beat down... lol
 
your answer as to why they were able to put on such a run lies with IU, not St Marys. They'd just had enough and were tired after the BTT, # of games, travel, lack of sleep, but I truly believe that team would beat ours 8-9 out of 10, just because they are everything we aren't: disciplined, good shooting, smart... This group of players has frustrated me for years with how careless they are with leads and it just all came to a head last night, but it's why we've struggled so much vs WI and I think would struggle against St Marys if we played them repeatedly. Doubtful they'd ever lay that type of ass-whipping on us again, but I think they'd hang a whole bunch of Ls on us.
I know it lies with IU...which is my point. St Mary's isn't good enough to put a 50-12 run on us. They did it last night. It happened. So obviously its possible. But I never would have dreamed it was possible. And while I don't particularly enjoy the slower, methodical, St Mary's/Wisconsin style, I do respect it. And I do respect what Bennett has built and done at St Mary's.

We can for sure agree to disagree on how good St Mary's is. And I'll certainly admit I'm wrong if they go on a run. If they're as good as you're saying, they should beat both UCLA and Baylor.
 
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not everyone will. That is the safest bet of this week.
I dont like bad mouthing players. I'd thank Kopp and Stewart for their hard work. They will always be Hoosiers. Appreciate everything but their playing days at IU have come to a close. And they both got to play in a NCAA tournament. Pretty cool! Tamar, Galloway and JHS will absorb their minutes.
 
Experience, talent, execution, luck, fatigue. All played a role. Tired legs became a factor because we were getting schooled, not the other way around. I just hate not being competitive, regardless of the cause.

Great point in the OP about the importance of who leaves and why. I really don't want any of the bench guys to leave because I think Woodson's message was that he'll give them every opportunity to succeed going forward as he did with the starters. Hopefully they buy it.

For that reason, I'm kind of indifferent to Race and TJD returning. I think we risk losing Geronimo if that happens. And if I'm Bates, I'm probably not wanting to have to focus on feeding TJD every possession.
 
I don't even know what I'm searching for here...ha ha. But I'm also not buying the fatigue angle. These are college athletes. Playing a sport where in middle school and high school, they spend all their summers traveling all across the country, playing 2,3.4 games a day, 7-10 over a weekend usually. All usually at a much more frenetic pace than what we see in college games. And they do so, without the benefit of nutritionists, strength and conditioning coaches, chartered flights. And that's not even taking into account the adrenaline and excitement of playing in the NCAA tournament, on national TV, etc...
Just silly.

The fatigue angle is negated in high school and AAU when the other team you're playing is also playing on the same days rest. St. Mary's hadn't played a game in 9 days and didn't have to fly cross country 36 hours prior to tip. They comfortably slept in their dorms in the same time zone and traveled on their own terms with adequate preparation and time. Physical fatigue is the leading cursor to mental fatigue which was absolutely on display last night. If you don't know you don't know.
 
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Kind of my point. Its weird.

And no, there's NOTHING about St Mary's that should have produced that level of dominance. Obviously they're better than we are top to bottom. I think they beat us more times than not. But 50-12 run us??? That literally should never happen against a team like St Mary's. They're not good enough or athletic enough to do that. I'd venture a guess that they didn't do that to a single other team on their schedule.
aside from early season games pairing University of Blue Blood vs SW Cupcake state, you never see a 50-12 run. Never. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing, so I started punching numbers on my calculator app...and felt even worse. 50-12, yep the math was correct.
 
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I dont like bad mouthing players. I'd thank Kopp and Stewart for their hard work. They will always be Hoosiers. Appreciate everything but their playing days at IU have come to a close. And they both got to play in a NCAA tournament. Pretty cool! Tamar, Galloway and JHS will absorb their minutes.
agreed, I know they work hard and they wanted to succeed. But I've been in some form of a 'sales' career for 25 yrs, and at the end of the year, it's not the effort that pays everyone's salary, it's the results. The math doesn't lie. Math never lies.
 
and it worked the other way too, when RMK lovers used to say he was such a better coach than Dean Smith, who was just a recruiter. Isn't recruiting part of coaching? It's never been like the old IROC races with evenly prepared rosters. Getting the best players is certainly part of coaching and having discipline and being willing to do the work is a talent or skill in my book. Anyone can, but few do.
From what I've heard and read, RMK himself got a little lazy in recruiting during the final 5-7 yrs at IU (or maybe just sick of it?). And the results started to show.
 
Agree about Saint Mary's! I was already becoming a believer in watching replays of their games. I think they were already good, but improved greatly as the season went on. This is not a strong season for college hoops, so I'm going to bet Saint Mary's the rest of the way. They destroyed us yesterday the way we did Maryland back in 81. Baylor's perimeter defense might get them, if not I think they'll get to the Final Four. Which is probably the kiss of death and UCLA gives them a beat down... lol
I hear the word “talent” frequently. Seems that people skew towards athleticism.

Frankly I’d prefer to be the smartest team in college basketball, or the mentally toughest, or the hardest working than be the most athletic.

a few years ago I was speaking to a friend of my Dads , super bright guy that has unfortunately since passed away. All B10 basketball player, NFL player, author. We were talking about NFL QBs and he said arm strength and accuracy were pretty much irrelevant, but that’s what the casual fan focuses on. If you get to the NFL you have the arm strength, you have the accuracy. But, can you read a defense? It’s 90% mental. Better to be the smartest QB, and the most prepared. And, have the best offensive line (VBG).

I guess getting back to my point in a roundabout way, talent is just as much about the stuff between the ears as anything physical.
 
I'm betting you haven't watched an NBA game in that 5 year period. pick and roll and isolation... nope. I don't watch a ton, but every team I see plays 4-5 out with laser passes, moving the ball for the best 3 or layup they can find. The only isolation is if someone has an exceptional player like Giannis or Doncic and then it's generally after they've created a mismatch with their passing. It's chess vs checkers.

I agree with you that the 3-point shot and the analytics revolution have changed the game in the NBA, but the pick and roll is still the most-used play in the NBA according to Synergy and the linked article below. It is how they create mismatches, and is the primary driver for most offenses to start their possessions. According to this article from NBA.com, pick and roll plays account for 17% of all offensive possessions and the top 5 pick-and-roll ballhandlers rank among the top eight overall scorers in the league:

Pick and roll scorers

The Golden State Warriors typically are at the bottom of the league in percentage of possessions using a ball screen, but generally most NBA offenses are predicated on the ball screen from what I have seen: have three shooters around the 3-point line, have the 5 come and screen for the point guard or de factor ball handler (e.g. Luka) and then hunt the mismatch, lob to the rolling big, or pass to a shooter standing in the corner if help overcommits. Yes, there is often a lot of quick perimeter passing as the defense scrambles, but most NBA offenses use the 5 screening for the ball handler to initiate their offense more than anything else.

Also, I felt it was what St. Mary's was doing as well - my memory may be fuzzy from the pain of watching that game, but I thought pretty much every possession they had started with a big screening for the ball handler.
 
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Good Thoughts IUNorth.

here is another thought. Was this a classic letdown after winning the first NCAA game since eons ago? This may have been much more like the Mi letdown after PU than fans would like to admit.

Wyoming had the raw end of the travel stick versus us. We got basically a home game. Everyone was looking ahead.

As to culture: Anyone catch the announcers talking about St Mary’s culture last night? They built that program the old school way. No portal, just recruiting and let the kids develop in a program (that is all about the program, and the culture established). Anyone else feel like their entire team was recruited based upon what is between their ears?
in reply to the culture:

Years ago (knight was current coach back then), my brother-in-law (lives in PA... huge Penn State fan) asked me how Coach Knight recruited such good players.

My response back to him was: He recruits players that have brains and basketball IQ, plus athleticism if they have it. The main thing I think Knight taught them was during Offense, read their defense and watch where they move when you move around. See how they defend you and use that to your advantage to get open throughout the game.

In today's game.... players just want to isolate and back your opponent down under the basket.
There was a game yesterday, I think it was the Iowa game, where the opposing team ran backdoor cuts
all game long and beat Iowa's defenders. Good smart fundamental basketball.

This is where I agree with Gerdis.... "No portal, just recruiting and let the kids develop in a program (that is all about the program, and the culture established)"
 
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I don't even know what I'm searching for here...ha ha. But I'm also not buying the fatigue angle. These are college athletes. Playing a sport where in middle school and high school, they spend all their summers traveling all across the country, playing 2,3.4 games a day, 7-10 over a weekend usually. All usually at a much more frenetic pace than what we see in college games. And they do so, without the benefit of nutritionists, strength and conditioning coaches, chartered flights. And that's not even taking into account the adrenaline and excitement of playing in the NCAA tournament, on national TV, etc...

And again, this comes from someone that flys a lot, and even posted yesterday that St Mary's would have a decided advantage...being in their own time zone, not having to fly overnight, etc...

But as a college aged athlete, fatigue shouldn't have led to what happened last night.

Obviously its mental. And to me, its obvious they just quit. Which is weird, as these same kids hadn't done that all year long.

While fatigue may wasn't the main cause of the loss, it very well could have caused the game to spiral from what maybe could have been a 15 point loss to a 30 point loss.

Also, while lack of sleep doesn't really impact physical strength/stamina, it does slow reflexes (effecting neurological function but not muscle function) and limits ability to focus/concentrate.
 
I know it lies with IU...which is my point. St Mary's isn't good enough to put a 50-12 run on us. They did it last night. It happened. So obviously its possible. But I never would have dreamed it was possible. And while I don't particularly enjoy the slower, methodical, St Mary's/Wisconsin style, I do respect it. And I do respect what Bennett has built and done at St Mary's.

We can for sure agree to disagree on how good St Mary's is. And I'll certainly admit I'm wrong if they go on a run. If they're as good as you're saying, they should beat both UCLA and Baylor.
No, I'm not saying they'll beat both, I'm saying their system gives them a chance at both. Personally, I do kind of think they'll beat UCLA, just because you know these kids have been dying for a shot at them. Beyond that, who knows? UNC has really started to play well, if they can stay out of foul trouble, they may take care of Baylor. They just don't have much of a bench.
 
No, I'm saying they play a style similar to NBA teams, and have tweaked it to their benefit, specifically because they don't have the best talent. The results are the same: they get good looks from 3 or layups. And you can suggest they aren't good enough to do what they did and I could buy that, except that the score says they were. Do they play as well as they did last night, every game? Obviously no, but they are playing a smart and disciplined system that allows them to have greater success than what their recruiting or athletic talent would suggest.

Good article on the changes to the NBA game over the years:

Yep, college game has grown to mimic NBA. Steph Curry has probably changed the game more than any player in recent memory. I couldn't help but wonder, many times this season, with 2 guards at 6'5, ever think of posting them up? Posting guards up in college seems to be a lost art. I know they probably have never really worked on that aspect of their game, but if they aren't being productive from the outside, can we take advantage of their size in other ways against smaller guards, when applicable? But, alas, that was a pipedream.
 
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aside from early season games pairing University of Blue Blood vs SW Cupcake state, you never see a 50-12 run. Never. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing, so I started punching numbers on my calculator app...and felt even worse. 50-12, yep the math was correct.
Yeah that is simply amazing. You would usually only see that kind of run if it was like Kansas vs some low low level Division one school. I remember last week people saying they loved this draw and now St. Mary's a is a machine I guess. The bottom line is we basically quit in the second half. There is no way that team is 30 points better than us. No way.
 
Yeah that is simply amazing. You would usually only see that kind of run if it was like Kansas vs some low low level Division one school. I remember last week people saying they loved this draw and now St. Mary's a is a machine I guess. The bottom line is we basically quit in the second half. There is no way that team is 30 points better than us. No way.

I think it started out as panic and trying too hard - rushing/forcing things on offense, and being too aggressive on defense. But then after IU missed its first few shots in the second half, it quit.

Against Michigan, even though a similar half time lead ballooned in 2nd half, IU's offense was at least consistently generating points which kept them in the game mentally
 
Yeah that is simply amazing. You would usually only see that kind of run if it was like Kansas vs some low low level Division one school. I remember last week people saying they loved this draw and now St. Mary's a is a machine I guess. The bottom line is we basically quit in the second half. There is no way that team is 30 points better than us. No way.
Yeah, we quit. Maybe the team was just happy to be there?

Either way, we got to play a game in Dayton in front of our fans. Would it have been better to have played WY in Portland and lost the play in game?
 
Yeah that is simply amazing. You would usually only see that kind of run if it was like Kansas vs some low low level Division one school. I remember last week people saying they loved this draw and now St. Mary's a is a machine I guess. The bottom line is we basically quit in the second half. There is no way that team is 30 points better than us. No way.
I hate to admit it, but this IU team laid down and quit in the second half. Many fans don't have the stomach to admit it, but it's the truth. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it needs to be said. It's one thing to play hard with effort and lose to a better team (which I believe Saint Mary's is) by a respectable score, but it's another to simply go through the motions and have your ass handed to you.
 
Just silly.

The fatigue angle is negated in high school and AAU when the other team you're playing is also playing on the same days rest. St. Mary's hadn't played a game in 9 days and didn't have to fly cross country 36 hours prior to tip. They comfortably slept in their dorms in the same time zone and traveled on their own terms with adequate preparation and time. Physical fatigue is the leading cursor to mental fatigue which was absolutely on display last night. If you don't know you don't know.
Nah. Not buying it. Their practices are harder on their bodies than the games are. Especially for all the kids that don’t play more than 15 minutes in a game.

I’ve played a lot. I played in college. I’ve played games at 12 Noon, after sleeping on a hotel room floor, which was after an 8 hour drive cramped into a passenger van (small college ball is so glamorous!). So I do know. By the time you’re through the shoot around before warmups, you’re fine.

What you described as advantage for St Marys is absolutely true. But IU should not have been “fatigued”. And that’s not why they got housed.
 
Nah. Not buying it. Their practices are harder on their bodies than the games are. Especially for all the kids that don’t play more than 15 minutes in a game.

I’ve played a lot. I played in college. I’ve played games at 12 Noon, after sleeping on a hotel room floor, which was after an 8 hour drive cramped into a passenger van (small college ball is so glamorous!). So I do know. By the time you’re through the shoot around before warmups, you’re fine.

What you described as advantage for St Marys is absolutely true. But IU should not have been “fatigued”. And that’s not why they got housed.
If you don't know, you don't know.

You wouldn't have written what you did if you knew.

IU didn't lose solely because they were "fatigued". Never said that let alone implied it. To not think it played a part in that massive run however is more than disingenuous.
 
If you don't know, you don't know.

You wouldn't have written what you did if you knew.

IU didn't lose solely because they were "fatigued". Never said that let alone implied it. To not think it played a part in that massive run however is more than disingenuous.
Probably arguing over semantics here. I don't think mental fatigue and physical fatigue are any where close to the same thing.

I don't buy...like at all...that they could have been physically fatigued. A normal week full of practice puts more physical activity, workout time, and stresses the muscles and joints more than playing 5 games in 7 days does. Especially for the guys that only play 15-20 minutes or so, but also even for the X's and TJD's that play over 30 minutes. That's probably 1/2, maybe even 1/3 the amount of time and physical exertion they have combined daily in practices and strength training sessions. And games often have shorter intervals of exertion, with longer intervals of rest in between, than any kind of normal practice would.

Mentally...the 5 games in 7 days...with that messed up Dayton/late flight/West coast game...yeah, I'm sure that played a factor. And maybe that caused/allowed them to quit mentally? Possible, obviously.

Something with the makeup of our team this year didn't often allow them to sustain energy or success for even entire games. There's a thread somewhere in here, that I hope Woody figures out.
 
I hate to admit it, but this IU team laid down and quit in the second half. Many fans don't have the stomach to admit it, but it's the truth. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it needs to be said. It's one thing to play hard with effort and lose to a better team (which I believe Saint Mary's is) by a respectable score, but it's another to simply go through the motions and have your ass handed to you.
I think we may have even quit at the half or shortly before . You usually come out with some big urgency down that much with the season on the line. Insead St. Mary's opened up the half running the lead out to 20 in a matter of minutes. People can blame it on travel or whatever but the fact of the matter is we did quit. You could see it in their body language and lack of hustle. Honesltly Woodson should have just put in Leal and those guys for the last 15 mintues they were fresh and probably would have given a better effort. We were down 21 points with 15 miunutes to go so put in the fresh legs.
 
I hate to admit it, but this IU team laid down and quit in the second half. Many fans don't have the stomach to admit it, but it's the truth. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it needs to be said. It's one thing to play hard with effort and lose to a better team (which I believe Saint Mary's is) by a respectable score, but it's another to simply go through the motions and have your ass handed to you.
They did.

We've seen it from them for stretches this year. Heck, it was a pretty reliable trend throughout the season that we were going to fade late in games.

Whatever caused last night, might be what caused the blown lead at Minny, the 2nd half in Madison, the late collapse against OSU, etc... Its just that we never fought back last night?? Weird to me.
 
Probably arguing over semantics here. I don't think mental fatigue and physical fatigue are any where close to the same thing.

I don't buy...like at all...that they could have been physically fatigued. A normal week full of practice puts more physical activity, workout time, and stresses the muscles and joints more than playing 5 games in 7 days does. Especially for the guys that only play 15-20 minutes or so, but also even for the X's and TJD's that play over 30 minutes. That's probably 1/2, maybe even 1/3 the amount of time and physical exertion they have combined daily in practices and strength training sessions. And games often have shorter intervals of exertion, with longer intervals of rest in between, than any kind of normal practice would.

Mentally...the 5 games in 7 days...with that messed up Dayton/late flight/West coast game...yeah, I'm sure that played a factor. And maybe that caused/allowed them to quit mentally? Possible, obviously.

Something with the makeup of our team this year didn't often allow them to sustain energy or success for even entire games. There's a thread somewhere in here, that I hope Woody figures out.
Physical fatigue is the precursor to mental fatigue. I mean seriously, what are you talking about? Teams that are tired are more prone to making mistakes.

You're absolutely nuts if you think a normal practice equates to a high level game situation, let alone 5 in 7 days. Players aren't running on adrenaline in practice like they are in games. There's a reason why teams practice every day but don't play games every day.

Again, if you don't know, you don't know. I'm not arguing semantics with you, I'm flat telling you you're wrong.
 
I think we may have even quit at the half or shortly before . You usually come out with some big urgency down that much with the season on the line. Insead St. Mary's opened up the half running the lead out to 20 in a matter of minutes. People can blame it on travel or whatever but the fact of the matter is we did quit. You could see it in their body language and lack of hustle. Honesltly Woodson should have just put in Leal and those guys for the last 15 mintues they were fresh and probably would have given a better effort. We were down 21 points with 15 miunutes to go so put in the fresh legs.
I was yelling at my TV begging Woodson to play Leal, Lander, Bates and even Duncomb. You're already down an insurmountable lead, so what's the harm in giving the young guys some run on the big stage?
 
I was yelling at my TV begging Woodson to play Leal, Lander, Bates and even Duncomb. You're already down an insurmountable lead, so what's the harm in giving the young guys some run on the big stage?
It was obvious we were not going to win at least with the lineup we had on the court. I mean he finally put them in but with only 5 minutes left. I was dumb enough to keep watching instead of flipping over to the Kentucky game. Lol.
 
They did.

We've seen it from them for stretches this year. Heck, it was a pretty reliable trend throughout the season that we were going to fade late in games.

Whatever caused last night, might be what caused the blown lead at Minny, the 2nd half in Madison, the late collapse against OSU, etc... Its just that we never fought back last night?? Weird to me.
Good point I almost forgot about Minnesota werent we up by like 30 at one point and they cut it to 3? I would have thought we would have seen some fight in the beginning of the second half but nothing. St. Mays is good but we made them look way better than they actually are. I would be stunned if they get past the sweet sixeteen.
 
Wisconsin beat St. Mary's 61-55. But the way some are talking I would expect this St. Marys team to make the final four!! But like you stated they they lost to the above teams and barely beat Notre Dame. We simply cannot hit three pointers and you are going to have to knock down outside shots to beat them. I will not be shocked if UCLA beats them but the talk of this machine team would make me think some of you think it is a final four team.
St. Mary's is a good three-point-shooting team, but had a good inside game too.

To beat St. Mary's, it would help to to something, anything, to make St. Mary's play aggressive defense to make them commit fouls. They had only 14 fouls against IU and only two of them had three fouls (none had more).

We just didn't give them a challenge.
 
St Mary’s Johnson was the most talented player on the floor. Tass & their pg were very, very good. Everyone else on their team filled their role - disciplined, could shoot, play d & rebound
Tass was surprising good...in part because TJD looks spent. There were a few times where Tass did the spin/pump fake/spin again/duck under for layups against TJD and Trayce looked like he was dizzy and tired.
 
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I hate to admit it, but this IU team laid down and quit in the second half. Many fans don't have the stomach to admit it, but it's the truth. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it needs to be said. It's one thing to play hard with effort and lose to a better team (which I believe Saint Mary's is) by a respectable score, but it's another to simply go through the motions and have your ass handed to you.
And, when the entire team plays like that, it makes sense to look for a reason that affected the entire team's performance.

They all didn't play the same number of minutes over the last 10-14 days, so leg fatigue probably didn't affect each of them equally.

What would have affected each player equally between March 15 and 17?
 
St. Mary's is a good three-point-shooting team, but had a good inside game too.

To beat St. Mary's, it would help to to something, anything, to make St. Mary's play aggressive defense to make them commit fouls. They had only 14 fouls against IU and only two of them had three fouls (none had more).

We just didn't give them a challenge.
Yep I said before the game we needed to hit in the 7-9 three pointer range to have a good shot. Instead we hit 2. In fact we only attempted 5 in the second half even though we were down big. Crean had all kinds of three point shooters. Archie had none. So here we are. I do think UCLA will give them a much tougher game they can knock down the three ball.
 
Nah. Not buying it. Their practices are harder on their bodies than the games are. Especially for all the kids that don’t play more than 15 minutes in a game.

I’ve played a lot. I played in college. I’ve played games at 12 Noon, after sleeping on a hotel room floor, which was after an 8 hour drive cramped into a passenger van (small college ball is so glamorous!). So I do know. By the time you’re through the shoot around before warmups, you’re fine.

What you described as advantage for St Marys is absolutely true. But IU should not have been “fatigued”. And that’s not why they got housed.
I think a bigger factor than fatigue was preparation. Saint Mary's is not a team that you can prepare to play in short order the way IU did. Early Sunday evening the players and staff find out that Saint Mary's is looming on Thursday, but on the way to Portland we have to stop off in Dayton and beat a Wyoming team that set basketball offense back 100 years.

IU maybe would have been sliced and diced by Saint Mary's anyway, but it looked like they just walked in off the street and challenged the Gaels to a game. They may as well have jumped off the bus and challenged Army to a game of football and tried to stop the wishbone.

I've seen a lot of IU games, but only a couple of times has it looked like the Hoosiers were chosen as stand-ins for the Washington Generals, and this was one of those times. I just don't think fatigue was the #1 factor, but I guess it don't matter... on to next year.
 
I think a bigger factor than fatigue was preparation. Saint Mary's is not a team that you can prepare to play in short order the way IU did. Early Sunday evening the players and staff find out that Saint Mary's is looming on Thursday, but on the way to Portland we have to stop off in Dayton and beat a Wyoming team that set basketball offense back 100 years.

IU maybe would have been sliced and diced by Saint Mary's anyway, but it looked like they just walked in off the street and challenged the Gaels to a game. They may as well have jumped off the bus and challenged Army to a game of football and tried to stop the wishbone.

I've seen a lot of IU games, but only a couple of times has it looked like the Hoosiers were chosen as stand-ins for the Washington Generals, and this was one of those times. I just don't think fatigue was the #1 factor, but I guess it don't matter... on to next year.
Don’t forget the emotional aspect of the Wyoming game.

years and years ago I was in an old school fantasy football league. Call into a phone number with the lineup, results were mailed. I had to check the newspaper box scores to see if I won. Pre internet.

anyhow, we had a golf outing draft weekend. Never failed, I fell apart like a broken China doll as soon as that draft was over. Drinking all day plus the emotional letdown after it was all finally done.

flash forward to Dayton. First tournament game for any of our players. Maybe they were satisfied just being in the tournament. A big win in front of all IU fans. Massive locker room celebration . Then the kids Jitterbugging into all hours of the night on the plane.

I think they had a classic emotional letdown and were spent
 
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