Jon Rothstein, CBSSports.com says his pick for
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Here's my take
First, let me say that CTC is doing a decent job this so far this year (though, let's see how the next couple weeks play out).
The praise I've seen for Crean is usually for the job he's doing after a disastrous offseason and without any true big men. But they aren't penalizing him for his subpar performance in recruiting, roster management, and team discipline that created low expectations to begin with. They're giving him credit for overcoming these obstacles on the court that exist in no small part due to his failings off the court.
First, let me say that CTC is doing a decent job this so far this year (though, let's see how the next couple weeks play out).
The praise I've seen for Crean is usually for the job he's doing after a disastrous offseason and without any true big men. But they aren't penalizing him for his subpar performance in recruiting, roster management, and team discipline that created low expectations to begin with. They're giving him credit for overcoming these obstacles on the court that exist in no small part due to his failings off the court.
Will the next 6 games change your opinion of CTC?
Win those games or not, he is still the same guy. If you don't like him now, just because he "finds a way to win" why would you like him later?
That's why some people around here hope that IU loses, just so they will get their wish and find someone else to blame not winning a championship on.
It's sad.
Win those games or not, he is still the same guy. If you don't like him now, just because he "finds a way to win" why would you like him later?
That's why some people around here hope that IU loses, just so they will get their wish and find someone else to blame not winning a championship on.
It's sad.
It can.
If IU goes 6-0, 5-1 in that stretch it will show me he is growing as a coach.
I really hope he can get this team to "find a way to win" @ Ill, @ OSU, @Wisc, and home against MD, along with beating PU and Rutgers.
I want IU to compete for NCAA championships. If Crean can grow as a coach and get IU to that position consistently (and soon) then great. But if he can't he needs to go so someone else can come in and try to get the program to that position.
And the over recruiting needs to stop.
If IU goes 6-0, 5-1 in that stretch it will show me he is growing as a coach.
I really hope he can get this team to "find a way to win" @ Ill, @ OSU, @Wisc, and home against MD, along with beating PU and Rutgers.
I want IU to compete for NCAA championships. If Crean can grow as a coach and get IU to that position consistently (and soon) then great. But if he can't he needs to go so someone else can come in and try to get the program to that position.
And the over recruiting needs to stop.
Can't speak for him but teams in the Big Ten have been wildly inconsistent or just plain bad some games (IU included). Certainly not limited to IU...I don't go to other message boards but would bet other coaches are getting "expert analysis" just like here.
IU is a team that most everyone picked as a bottom feeder..
Subsequently lost a player that many thought would be a key contributor in Devin Davis. IU's early Big Ten schedule beckoned a 1-3 start in the eyes of most prognosticators. I'm not a Crean fan, but I can see how outsiders would consider IU a surprise team at this point in the season.
Illinois (without Rice) is beatable on the road and then another ranked team comes to Assembly Hall. IF... IF IU can win these next two there will be Coach of the Year type of rumblings.
Subsequently lost a player that many thought would be a key contributor in Devin Davis. IU's early Big Ten schedule beckoned a 1-3 start in the eyes of most prognosticators. I'm not a Crean fan, but I can see how outsiders would consider IU a surprise team at this point in the season.
Illinois (without Rice) is beatable on the road and then another ranked team comes to Assembly Hall. IF... IF IU can win these next two there will be Coach of the Year type of rumblings.
Potential.... you cannot honestly think this team has reached its full...
potential.... every starting player has shown signs of billiance and ineptitude... but when/if they get it all together.... Katie bar the door.... cause it's Go Time.... crazy as it may sound... you gotta like the pieces he's putting into place... that's why I say there is going to be one more added to next year's roster... a good one.... I hope... maybe... possibly... just think what this team would be with a true 4-5* big player added to it... one that's ready to play...
potential.... every starting player has shown signs of billiance and ineptitude... but when/if they get it all together.... Katie bar the door.... cause it's Go Time.... crazy as it may sound... you gotta like the pieces he's putting into place... that's why I say there is going to be one more added to next year's roster... a good one.... I hope... maybe... possibly... just think what this team would be with a true 4-5* big player added to it... one that's ready to play...
I suppose
I think those results would be more to the players improving than the coach growing. Again, just because the shots are falling it doesn't mean that he is becoming a different coach. Perhaps he is changing his style a little bit, but I'm pretty sure he is who he is by now.
I think those results would be more to the players improving than the coach growing. Again, just because the shots are falling it doesn't mean that he is becoming a different coach. Perhaps he is changing his style a little bit, but I'm pretty sure he is who he is by now.
good post ...
But who is that big guy who will come? Some on here say give Crean credit for chasing the right recruits even if they don't go to IU. That's ludicrous.
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But who is that big guy who will come? Some on here say give Crean credit for chasing the right recruits even if they don't go to IU. That's ludicrous.
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I hope he can grow as a coach... but the games have to prove it;...
right now he's winning... he cannot afford any more turtle-ish behavior from anyone... good players cannot disappear... they CAN have off nights... but no Houdini act's allowed... and he needs to drill that kind of behavior out of his players... if the players do not disappear and he gets a loss... it would be so much more acceptable... than another Michigan State incident this season... that cannot... must not ever happen again... not with this team... not this late in the season....
right now he's winning... he cannot afford any more turtle-ish behavior from anyone... good players cannot disappear... they CAN have off nights... but no Houdini act's allowed... and he needs to drill that kind of behavior out of his players... if the players do not disappear and he gets a loss... it would be so much more acceptable... than another Michigan State incident this season... that cannot... must not ever happen again... not with this team... not this late in the season....
Exactly ...
It says a lot that some think Crean is over-achieving in his 7th year at IU. The lowered expectations are hurting the program.
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It says a lot that some think Crean is over-achieving in his 7th year at IU. The lowered expectations are hurting the program.
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I hope for an IU win every game
I also firmly believe that he can't get IU back to the level most of us hope to see them return to. If he proves me wrong on that, I'll enjoy the wins and the championships, etc. At the same time. if the over recruiting continues, if there's a renewed bout of off the court stuff, if he continues to get in these ridiculous little guy bravado sessions with other coaches I'll not care for him any more than I do right now.
I also firmly believe that he can't get IU back to the level most of us hope to see them return to. If he proves me wrong on that, I'll enjoy the wins and the championships, etc. At the same time. if the over recruiting continues, if there's a renewed bout of off the court stuff, if he continues to get in these ridiculous little guy bravado sessions with other coaches I'll not care for him any more than I do right now.
We are 11-2 or something in last home games vs ranked teams, I would not say we are better than OSU, but with our history of beating ranked teams at home, was not surprised. Just like I do not in any way think we are better than MD, BUT will not be shocked if we find a way to beat them in the Hall. History shows we win those games
" I'm pretty sure he is who he is by now. "
And that is why some are ready to move on. Why spin your wheels if you know the current system can't get the program where you want it to be.
All of us here want IU to be better. Some dont think he can get the program there. Some do. Others say he has this year to prove himself as a better coach. Eventually we will all find out what the AD and BOT's think.
And that is why some are ready to move on. Why spin your wheels if you know the current system can't get the program where you want it to be.
All of us here want IU to be better. Some dont think he can get the program there. Some do. Others say he has this year to prove himself as a better coach. Eventually we will all find out what the AD and BOT's think.
I kind of like the duplicitous bi-polarish dare-you-to-T-me up CTC...
... and the fact that he has chewed a player out during the game who's not performing up to par... it's about damn time he's done that... a T would make my day for CTC... show some emotion dude... enough of the clapping and pacing... this isn't a recreational league... where everyone gets a trophy... now don't make a habit of it... but every once in a while... let the refs and players know you don't appreciate their lack of work ethic...
... and the fact that he has chewed a player out during the game who's not performing up to par... it's about damn time he's done that... a T would make my day for CTC... show some emotion dude... enough of the clapping and pacing... this isn't a recreational league... where everyone gets a trophy... now don't make a habit of it... but every once in a while... let the refs and players know you don't appreciate their lack of work ethic...
We were 12-5 (2-2) at this exact point last year...
Fresh off beating a Top 5 Wisconsin team. We saw how the rest of the year turned out.
I think that is why people aren't quite ready to cut down the nets and hand out moral victory rings.
Fresh off beating a Top 5 Wisconsin team. We saw how the rest of the year turned out.
I think that is why people aren't quite ready to cut down the nets and hand out moral victory rings.
Do you think John Rothstein can name the starters off the top of his head?
Do you think he knows that Colin Hartman starts at the five among other things? Maybe. The question was why do some of the media see things differently than the fans and I answered. You went on a couple of tangents. Many have watched this for 7 years and 6 games is the normal timeframe for media types to find their next flavor of the month.
The next six games will probably not affect how I personally see things to answer your question. Also, I hope you're not inferring that I'm rooting against IU so I can "find someone else to blame for not winning a title." I will never ever ever ever ever root against IU. Besides, winning a title is unimaginable at this point. Let's start with making the tournament!
Do you think he knows that Colin Hartman starts at the five among other things? Maybe. The question was why do some of the media see things differently than the fans and I answered. You went on a couple of tangents. Many have watched this for 7 years and 6 games is the normal timeframe for media types to find their next flavor of the month.
The next six games will probably not affect how I personally see things to answer your question. Also, I hope you're not inferring that I'm rooting against IU so I can "find someone else to blame for not winning a title." I will never ever ever ever ever root against IU. Besides, winning a title is unimaginable at this point. Let's start with making the tournament!
Re: Do you think John Rothstein can name the starters off the top of his head?
He is making a ton of money. So the record we have should not garner coach of the year honors. It is way early and the next six gamed will be very telling.
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He is making a ton of money. So the record we have should not garner coach of the year honors. It is way early and the next six gamed will be very telling.
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He sees us competing in a conference that has basically
fallen off the map nationally. We were picked 9th in a conference that was picked to be 1st or 2nd, and it's looking like were 4th in a conference that is 5th or 6th. Like many he's giving Crean credit for other conferences coaches having problems this year.
We're currently in the 50's on the computers and in the 50's on RPI probably right where a 9th picked team in the 1st or 2nd best conference should be. People are looking at this from a conference perspective and thinking were exceeding expectations when in reality we're right where we were picked and other teams in conference are greatly falling below theirs.
We're currently 56th on Kenpom, 48th on Sagarin, 50th on the BPI and our RPI is 47th. We're not exceeding expectations! Unless your expectation were for us to be a top 60 team nationally.
This post was edited on 1/14 3:49 PM by T.M.P.
fallen off the map nationally. We were picked 9th in a conference that was picked to be 1st or 2nd, and it's looking like were 4th in a conference that is 5th or 6th. Like many he's giving Crean credit for other conferences coaches having problems this year.
We're currently in the 50's on the computers and in the 50's on RPI probably right where a 9th picked team in the 1st or 2nd best conference should be. People are looking at this from a conference perspective and thinking were exceeding expectations when in reality we're right where we were picked and other teams in conference are greatly falling below theirs.
We're currently 56th on Kenpom, 48th on Sagarin, 50th on the BPI and our RPI is 47th. We're not exceeding expectations! Unless your expectation were for us to be a top 60 team nationally.
This post was edited on 1/14 3:49 PM by T.M.P.
Correct! He should be praising those coaches who aren't doing as well
as they were projected or even as well IU period.
We're 35th in Sagarin's 'Just Win Baby' method. Crean must be a winner.
You should stop acting like the computer ranking is a tell-all instead of the snapshot that it is. Our trend is upwardly mobile.
as they were projected or even as well IU period.
We're 35th in Sagarin's 'Just Win Baby' method. Crean must be a winner.
You should stop acting like the computer ranking is a tell-all instead of the snapshot that it is. Our trend is upwardly mobile.
Upwardly mobile?
We've went down in both sagarin and kenpom while playing the last 4 games. Why? because our conference basically sucks.
I guess some people believe Crean deserves credit for the majority of our conference becoming the pac 12. Whatever..
We've went down in both sagarin and kenpom while playing the last 4 games. Why? because our conference basically sucks.
I guess some people believe Crean deserves credit for the majority of our conference becoming the pac 12. Whatever..
Yep. ding ding ding, we have a winner
Good point. A lot of optimism at this point last year and then the wheels fell off.
Good point. A lot of optimism at this point last year and then the wheels fell off.
Good thing the computers don't seed the Big Dance...
care to explain how OSU is ranked 17th on Sagarin while playing the 195th toughest schedule? They have 4 losses and are 1-4 vs the top 50.
Meanwhile, IU beat OSU head to head, also has 4 losses, has the 143 ranked schedule, are 3-3 vs the top 50, and we are ranked 48th (31 spots lower).
Please help me understand that one...
care to explain how OSU is ranked 17th on Sagarin while playing the 195th toughest schedule? They have 4 losses and are 1-4 vs the top 50.
Meanwhile, IU beat OSU head to head, also has 4 losses, has the 143 ranked schedule, are 3-3 vs the top 50, and we are ranked 48th (31 spots lower).
Please help me understand that one...
It was programmed to hate Tom Crean ..
it's called the Hate Tom Crean algorithm, and it's also enhanced with the Love Thad Matta algorithm.. it's the only explanation.
Because as everyone knows. Math, is such a subjective and arbitrary science and stats are only accurate when you agree with them.
it's called the Hate Tom Crean algorithm, and it's also enhanced with the Love Thad Matta algorithm.. it's the only explanation.
Because as everyone knows. Math, is such a subjective and arbitrary science and stats are only accurate when you agree with them.
Like CTC, the nerds writing the algorithms never played basketball
at a high level.
Their logic is flawed.
at a high level.
Their logic is flawed.
Surprising, maybe. But impressive?
To me, an impressive team would be one to consider a contender. I'll assume someone getting paid to write about sports isn't suggesting that. Kentucky is impressive. Louisville is impressive.
IU has potential. We've won some games to put us in a position to do well in the conference. That's a surprise, and worth noting. But hardly impressive on a national scale.
To me, an impressive team would be one to consider a contender. I'll assume someone getting paid to write about sports isn't suggesting that. Kentucky is impressive. Louisville is impressive.
IU has potential. We've won some games to put us in a position to do well in the conference. That's a surprise, and worth noting. But hardly impressive on a national scale.
Some people on here b@#$# for any reason....
Coach has done a great job so far and continues to work like a dog. Give us a big man next year and look out.
Coach has done a great job so far and continues to work like a dog. Give us a big man next year and look out.
And that is Crean's fault how?
He thought he had Luke Fisher to fall back on after Noah. Did not happen.
He thought he had Luke Fisher to fall back on after Noah. Did not happen.
