Is hiring an editor to review a high schooler's essays cheating?

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

 

[TomEric4756]

Just using a modern word processor would be cheating …they’re good at comma splices, noun-verb agreement and awkward sentence structure. I think coaching on rhetoric is fair … the only rhetoric lessons I really got were letter grade deductions on the papers I got back. No classroom discussion at all. (HS or college).

 

[mcmurtry66]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

ha totally cheating. but who the f knows. maybe that's the new world order. like these guys who charge a million bucks to rich foreigners and promise them entry to harvard/yale/columbia/mit/caltech etc.

reminds of my best friend since first grade. worst student ever. terrible troublemaker. tied to the desk. mouth taped. beaten by teachers. grades so bad he wouldn't even go inside he'd just go to the back yard and start digging a hole or doing some other miserable chore because he knew what was coming. dad was a bricklayer and mom a drunk but super talented with arts and crafts and loved him to death. 4th grade art fair he turned in a log cabin that bass pro shops couldn't commission. from real fur pelts to the bark itself to this day i've never seen anything finer at an art show. it was so clearly not made by a 4th grader, much less a derelict 4th grader, but to this day, over the age of 50, he maintains that he made it lmfao

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

You are in a dads group.

Which is creating questions inside yourself.

That you post to qualify to others.

umm. .... .. God I miss my redneck buddies, and a tailgate. open fire and a 100 yard target range. But, I think some hand cream would have made my trigger pull a little smoother.

Dads group. wow.

 

[Univee2]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

So, is hiring a hitting coach for your 10-year-old son cheating?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Just using a modern word processor would be cheating …they’re good at comma splices, noun-verb agreement and awkward sentence structure. I think coaching on rhetoric is fair … the only rhetoric lessons I really got were letter grade deductions on the papers I got back. No classroom discussion at all. (HS or college).

I won't let my kids use a modern word processor. I make them handwrite everything, even if the teacher wants it typed. I say no way.

My kids don't like me much.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

So, is hiring a hitting coach for your 10-year-old son cheating?

If he steps up to the plate and hits for him in games, yep.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

ha totally cheating. but who the f knows. maybe that's the new world order. like these guys who charge a million bucks to rich foreigners and promise them entry to harvard/yale/columbia/mit/caltech etc.

reminds of my best friend since first grade. worst student ever. terrible troublemaker. tied to the desk. mouth taped. beaten by teachers. grades so bad he wouldn't even go inside he'd just go to the back yard and start digging a hole or doing some other miserable chore because he knew what was coming. dad was a bricklayer and mom a drunk but super talented with arts and crafts and loved him to death. 4th grade art fair he turned in a log cabin that bass pro shops couldn't commission. from real fur pelts to the bark itself to this day i've never seen anything finer at an art show. it was so clearly not made by a 4th grader, much less a derelict 4th grader, but to this day, over the age of 50, he maintains that he made it lmfao

There's a good chance that you are wrong. Everyone and everything blossoms in different ways and at different times.

Well except grown men that are part of a "dad's group". Those are perpetual D&D players that didn't get a holly wood gig. IT's quite sad to be gay, but not like being gay. It's complicated. I feel for them. Sending thoughts and prayers for peace.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There's a good chance that you are wrong. Everyone and everything blossoms in different ways and at different times.

Well except grown men that are part of a "dad's group". Those are perpetual D&D players that didn't get a holly wood gig. IT's quite sad to be gay, but not like being gay. It's complicated. I feel for them. Sending thoughts and prayers for peace.

i'm part of a dad's divorce group that never organized. it's a group of divorced dads at my kid's old grade school. we randomly met up there over being a divorced dad and untoward jokes at school events. about once every few months we get together at a local bar, listen to the band, trade the latest horror stories, and get bombed. it's a good group of aging guys that i enjoy a handful of times a year. it's very frank branscombe

 

[UncleMark]

"Involved" parents have been "helping" their kids with their homework for forever. This is just farming that out.

 

[mcmurtry66]

"Involved" parents have been "helping" their kids with their homework for forever. This is just farming that out.

“pros” are the difference

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

There's a good chance that you are wrong. Everyone and everything blossoms in different ways and at different times.

Well except grown men that are part of a "dad's group". Those are perpetual D&D players that didn't get a holly wood gig. IT's quite sad to be gay, but not like being gay. It's complicated. I feel for them. Sending thoughts and prayers for peace.

I don’t go on it often, but sometimes they have good recommendations for HVAC, mechanics, etc.

But there are a TON of gamers and RPG guys on there. 😆

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

i'm part of a dad's divorce group that never organized. it's a group of divorced dads at my kid's old grade school. we randomly met up there over being a divorced dad and untoward jokes at school events. about once every few months we get together at a local bar, listen to the band, trade the latest horror stories, and get bombed. it's a good group of aging guys that i enjoy a handful of times a year. it's very frank branscombe

That's called , buddies.
If you weren't in the murder capitol of the US, you could do that on some tailgates, next to an open fire. And relax and take back your Balls.
I swear that you have no idea of how bad I feel for you all. This country, society and progressives, have one goal. Turn you all gay and remove all male hood.
If you feel satisfaction today from what that brings... That is step one.
I'm gonna miss ya brother. You were a good egg, once. Next step, male feminine care products.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

"Involved" parents have been "helping" their kids with their homework for forever. This is just farming that out.

So you’re OK with it? Or just don’t think it should be forbidden?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I don’t go on it often, but sometimes they have good recommendations for HVAC, mechanics, etc.

But there are a TON of gamers and RPG guys on there. 😆

I'm gonna throw out a Mea Culpa. I get a little wound up over men loosing their, being men and bowing on knee to this shit going on today.
It's obvious that you are much more acceptable of being a subrogate male than I am, from your postings. But you also put in much more consideration and thought.
I should pull back my slam of your "dad group". (and McM66 also, and Goat that PM'd me about him having one, and he isn't even a dad yet or maybe ever, I think he's a stalker).

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

"Involved" parents have been "helping" their kids with their homework for forever. This is just farming that out.

That's actually a pretty good take on this.
But also starts to even the filed for AI to submit assignments for your stupid little shit that has had no personal upbringing because mommy can pay to have you admitted into Harvard.
"your momma sure cares about your education". *forest gump paraphrase. circa 1990's ish.

 

[UncleMark]

So you’re OK with it? Or just don’t think it should be forbidden?

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I wouldn't hire them. I think it's a bad deal for all concerned. But I'm not going to tell other parents how they should "help" their kids with the homework.

Forbidden? Who's going to play cop or prosecutor?

 

[UncleMark]

I don’t go on it often, but sometimes they have good recommendations for HVAC, mechanics, etc.

So COH and cray are on there?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

I do think it's yet another sign of the impending demise of our culture.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

So COH and cray are on there?

Correct.

 

[UncleMark]

Correct.

Are they both insufferable there too?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

your

Your was a collective "your" not Brad's "your". Just to be clear.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I wouldn't hire them. I think it's a bad deal for all concerned. But I'm not going to tell other parents how they should "help" their kids with the homework.

Forbidden? Who's going to play cop or prosecutor?

Who plays it on other cheating at school?

 

[UncleMark]

Who plays it on other cheating at school?

You want the woke Kommie teachers playing referee?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

You want the woke Kommie teachers playing referee?

Well, yes.

I think all high school classes and colleges seeking application essays should make clear that outside editors are not allowed (including parents).

 

[UncleMark]

Well, yes.

I think all high school classes and colleges seeking application essays should make clear that outside editors are not allowed (including parents).

Surely you're not limiting this to application essays.

And regardless, I'd love to hear how one would determine a violation beyond requiring pinkie swears.

 

[outside shooter]

It depends. If the kid wrote it and then just gets advice on revising and grammar corrections, it's basically what most involved parents do all of the time.

If the editor is doing a re-write, that's another thing

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Surely you're not limiting this to application essays.

And regardless, I'd love to hear how one would determine a violation beyond requiring pinkie swears.

How do they do it now?

Are you in favor of all cheating? Ok for a family to hire someone to take a take home test for their kid? Why not? Who’s going to determine it?

Edit: I am now wondering who you have hired to edit and review your posting here. 😛

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Surely you're not limiting this to application essays

I am not. As I wrote.

And:

 

[UncleMark]

How do they do it now?

Are you in favor of all cheating? Ok for a family to hire someone to take a take home test for their kid? Why not? Who’s going to determine it?

LOL. Yeah, sure. Whatever it takes.

Sorry, but I just can't summon up the appropriate rage you seem to require someone to have on this particular subject.

 

[stollcpa]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

Cheating. Case closed.

 

[stollcpa]

LOL. Yeah, sure. Whatever it takes.

Sorry, but I just can't summon up the appropriate rage you seem to require someone to have on this particular subject.

I can’t believe you’re okay with this.

 

[UncleMark]

I can’t believe you’re okay with this.

Didn't say I was. Said the opposite, in fact. Just am not able to get worked up about it.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

LOL. Yeah, sure. Whatever it takes.

Sorry, but I just can't summon up the appropriate rage you seem to require someone to have on this particular subject.

Which post suggests I require you to have "appropriate rage?"

 

[UncleMark]

Which post suggests I require you to have "appropriate rage?"

Most all of them. But you can start with the one asking if I'm in favor of all cheating. That was DANC level discourse. You can do better.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

On my local Facebook dad's group, a dad recently posted that he and his wife were going to start an essay consulting business. They will review essays for form, style, punctuation, grammar, etc. and provide edits and suggestions for ways to make it better, more individualistic, etc.

Is this cheating? I think it clearly is. Essay's are graded. It's like a math tutor who doesn't teach you math or the concepts, but instead "reviews and edits" your math test before you turn it in. The kid is supposed to be learning to do this stuff on his own and is graded on it.

Just as bad, it is the kind of inequity that the equity people have a point on. Why should kids whose parents are into this enough, or have enough money, get better grades than those that don't by hiring essay tutors? It's not as if an editor makes you a better writer, it's just extra help with your product. It would be completely different, in my mind, if they were going to get paid to do extra teaching regarding essay writing to the kid, but not on the ones that mattered.

This becomes even more troublesome when it comes to college essays if we are going to throw away standardized tests and rely on the subjective factors more, like essays.

Am I way off base on this? What do you think?

my first response is that it's definitely cheating, but i suppose it depends on if form is taken into consideration on grading, even if subconsciously.

and some obviously value form far more highly than others, while others are zeroed in on content.

that said, it's really just the next level expansion of spell check, is it not.

how much i consider it cheating, depends not just on the relationship of form to content on the grader's part, but also to the extent said consulting is limited only to form, and doesn't leak into consulting on content.

with spell check and/or any software based form expansion of that concept, it's easy to limit the "consulting" to form only.

when human based, i see said consulting as inevitably leaking into suggestions on content as well.

when a profit motive is introduced into the equation, which i'll assume is the case here, said "leaking" eventually inevitably merges with ghost writing.

 

[VanPastorMan]

ha totally cheating. but who the f knows. maybe that's the new world order. like these guys who charge a million bucks to rich foreigners and promise them entry to harvard/yale/columbia/mit/caltech etc.

reminds of my best friend since first grade. worst student ever. terrible troublemaker. tied to the desk. mouth taped. beaten by teachers. grades so bad he wouldn't even go inside he'd just go to the back yard and start digging a hole or doing some other miserable chore because he knew what was coming. dad was a bricklayer and mom a drunk but super talented with arts and crafts and loved him to death. 4th grade art fair he turned in a log cabin that bass pro shops couldn't commission. from real fur pelts to the bark itself to this day i've never seen anything finer at an art show. it was so clearly not made by a 4th grader, much less a derelict 4th grader, but to this day, over the age of 50, he maintains that he made it lmfao

What did this 4th grader end up doing for a living? Sometimes people just have to find their way and do what they were meant to do.
Your comment about gaining entry to Harvard etc made me think of Lori Laughlin who paid money for her daughter to get into USC. USC? lol

 

[Baller23Boogie]

What did this 4th grader end up doing for a living? Sometimes people just have to find their way and do what they were meant to do.
Your comment about gaining entry to Harvard etc made me think of Lori Laughlin who paid money for her daughter to get into USC. USC? lol

USC has a surprisingly low acceptance rate.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What did this 4th grader end up doing for a living? Sometimes people just have to find their way and do what they were meant to do.
Your comment about gaining entry to Harvard etc made me think of Lori Laughlin who paid money for her daughter to get into USC. USC? lol

USC is super hard to get admitted. It's a great school and not very big by today's standards of national universities. whenever i think of la i'm reminded of my ucla scholly. old legendary coach sigi schmid had me on campus and they offered on the spot. was just a great day. i loved the campus and location. i later get a call from him personally that they received my ACT scores but there was a mistake and that i had to get with my counselor to get the mistake corrected and the documents re-submitted. it wasn't a mistake my score was just incredibly low

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Most all of them. But you can start with the one asking if I'm in favor of all cheating. That was DANC level discourse. You can do better.

Huh. I reread them. I don’t see it.

No credit given for a tongue-sticking-out emoji or Airplane! GIF?