I fear that Cignetti…

[YOTHN]

So you think Florida State, Oregon, Miami, and Colorado looked at our o-line tapes for the past few years and all the schools got it wrong? We had talent my guy. We just had terrible coaching for the majority of the time they were here.

I didn't say we did or didn't have talent. I am saying that simply declaring where they transferred to is meaningless if the person doesn't play or does and is garbage. Right? So we can't close the case on this during the offseason, you need to wait and see what happens.

 

[DANC]

I didn't say we did or didn't have talent. I am saying that simply declaring where they transferred to is meaningless if the person doesn't play or does and is garbage. Right? So we can't close the case on this during the offseason, you need to wait and see what happens.

Yeah, it could be they'll just be depth at another school.

On the other hand, when we got a real OL coach and OC, our OL looked pretty decent. I tend to agree we had the talent, but we didn't have the coaching necessary to get them to improve.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Problem for the oline is they could be 80% good but still look like crap because the part that's crap is making them look bad.

It was probably a combination of talent and bad coaching.

 

[YOTHN]

Yeah, it could be they'll just be depth at another school.

On the other hand, when we got a real OL coach and OC, our OL looked pretty decent. I tend to agree we had the talent, but we didn't have the coaching necessary to get them to improve.

Right, but in the scenario where they're "depth", and not starting....that doesn't yell talent. It's also an infallible excuse that can be used to always say if you transfer to another P5 school than you're definitely talented. There are players who played for other P4 schools and smaller schools and have come to IU and stunk.

The point I was making was just because they go to another P4 school, doesn't then make them talented. We can only make that determination if they play and play well. Otherwise it's all conjecture and unproven.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Problem for the oline is they could be 80% good but still look like crap because the part that's crap is making them look bad.

It was probably a combination of talent and bad coaching.

 

[YOTHN]

No jump scare warning?!?!

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

No jump scare warning?!?!

I was just impressed that Coach Hiller was able to use a saying from Aleister Crowley and it actually make it through Tom Allen.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

I was just impressed that Coach Hiller was able to use a saying from Aleister Crowley and it actually make it through Tom Allen.

You’re giving Allen way too much credit. He wouldn’t know Aleister Crowley from Alistair Cooke.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

You’re giving Allen way too much credit. He wouldn’t know Aleister Crowley from Alistair Cooke.

That would make 2 of us. + don't care.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

That would make 2 of us. + don't care.

 

[OpenWheels]

An occultist?

Now we know how Coach Hiller was able to keep his job. Dark forces to beguile Coach Allen.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

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Hey appreciate the education gator(I did watch the videos you provided and I did recognize Alistair Cooke, how or why escapes me)but I've lived a long life not knowing things that just don't affect me particularly if they have to be chewed real fine for me to digest. Thanks!

 

[DANC]

You’re giving Allen way too much credit. He wouldn’t know Aleister Crowley from Alistair Cooke.

I wouldn't, either.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Hey appreciate the education gator(I did watch the videos you provided and I did recognize Alistair Cooke, how or why escapes me)but I've lived a long life not knowing things that just don't affect me particularly if they have to be chewed real fine for me to digest. Thanks!

Yeah, I actually don’t think most people would know about Crowley. I didn’t until later in life when I watched one of those shows about the paranormal on cable. Creepy guy. Alastair Cooke and Masterpiece Theatre on the other hand had some cultural impact when I was a kid growing up. They spoofed him on Sesame Street and Disney Channel used to have a show called Mouseterpiece Theatre where they had George Plimpton introduce cartoons like he was Cooke.

 

[Shadesof Crimson]

Yeah, I actually don’t think most people would know about Crowley. I didn’t until later in life when I watched one of those shows about the paranormal on cable. Creepy guy. Alastair Cooke and Masterpiece Theatre on the other hand had some cultural impact when I was a kid growing up. They spoofed him on Sesame Street and Disney Channel used to have a show called Mouseterpiece Theatre where they had George Plimpton introduce cartoons like he was Cooke.

I know about Crowley because Jimmy Page bought a property of his in Scotland.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I know about Crowley because Jimmy Page bought a property of his in Scotland.

Ozzy Ozbourne had a song on his early solo album called “Mr. Crowley” about this guy.

 

[IUNY]

Hmmm????… vs getting the kind of HS, and more recently, portal talent that CTA was bringing in that was supposedly “upgraded” that still underperformed on the field?…many whom never met expectations, nor seemingly got better or coached up?? The ‘21-‘23 seasons had better talent than their collective results, I think most here agree on.

I’ll be patient knowing this guy (and his assistant coaches) actually have had some experience winning at a lower level. Low bar, I know, but his JMU team probably would have out-executed IU most Saturday’s last season. IU, who supposedly should have better talent.

Other than the WMU DL (can’t recall his name) JMF and Ryder Anderson (a good pass rusher, whom CTA had dropping into coverage 50% of the time for some strange reason) what exactly have most of the these other P5 transfers CTA acquired in recent years, do by transferring “down” to IU? Not a lot from a W/L standpoint at least.

I’m kind of excited getting experienced, winning guys with a chip on their shoulder, being coached by many of the same staff that knows them. And more than that, hopefully looking well coached out there.

Competing in the Big 10 has always been a difficult road for IU. It’s unrealistic to think IU will compete for recruits against OSU, UM and PSU…not gonna happen. Coach Mal bemoaned this when recruiting Ohio kids 35 years ago, while having beaten OSU in ‘88 and ‘87 by a combined 72-17. He still couldn’t get top tier Ohio kids to even listen. Our sights need to be a bit lower…Let’s start beating the likes of Iowa, Illinois, PU, MSU, Rutgers and Northwestern ON THE FIELD (instead of choking away late leads against them) and maybe that will result in some better recruiting results off the field.

The likes of Iowa? If only we could.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

I've read that 3 times and I still don't know what it means. But I'm an IU grad.

 

[DANC]

I've read that 3 times and I still don't know what it means. But I'm an IU grad.

Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Woodsa]

I think the sobering reality he's already experiencing. It's tough getting the very best players when you're Indiana, and the conference has Michigan. Penn State, Ohio State, and more. and another conference has 'Bama, Tennesse, LSU, Auburn and more.

I really doubt it has all that much to do with illusion. But the best players from Sun Belt should be OK for year one. His other early grabs such as Price and Rourke, and McCulley, and others clearly can play.
My worry is not as many of the subset of guys who can clearly play are on the defense.

I also worried about the same thing, an illusion out of arrogance. But this guy has coached way too many years for that to be much of a factor. So then I thought "what else was he supposed to do, year one?" He has a philosophy of type of character he wants, and production. Where else can he get that right now? He even thought McCulley was gone and called him and Rourke "a big day." So he knows players.

Not to mention USC, Oregon, Washington, and Purdue. Makes attracting top talent to Bloomington more challenging! 😀

 

[OpenWheels]

Not to mention USC, Oregon, Washington, and Purdue. Makes attracting top talent to Bloomington more challenging! 😀

Did Purdue join too?

Dang, conference may be getting a little big.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

That would make 2 of us. + don't care.

Never understood why some people take such pride in being ignorant.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Never understood why some people take such pride in being ignorant.

Not knowing I cannot speak with any degree of accuracy.

 

[Mark Milton]

Yeah, I actually don’t think most people would know about Crowley. I didn’t until later in life when I watched one of those shows about the paranormal on cable. Creepy guy. Alastair Cooke and Masterpiece Theatre on the other hand had some cultural impact when I was a kid growing up. They spoofed him on Sesame Street and Disney Channel used to have a show called Mouseterpiece Theatre where they had George Plimpton introduce cartoons like he was Cooke.

Crowley was a genius level crackpot who enjoyed heroin and hashish as much as he enjoyed banging both sexes.

Interesting thing about Crowley is that he wanted to serve in the military during WW2 but was ultimately rejected on 1000 different levels. He was certainly not an unknown to the British intelligence circles. Even though rejected, if I'm not mistaken, he did try and help the British war effort by composing different magical spells, pamphlets, etc. At least he tried--unlike the batshit nazi Mitford sisters

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Crowley was a genius level crackpot who enjoyed heroin and hashish as much as he enjoyed banging both sexes.

Interesting thing about Crowley is that he wanted to serve in the military during WW2 but was ultimately rejected on 1000 different levels. He was certainly not an unknown to the British intelligence circles. Even though rejected, if I'm not mistaken, he did try and help the British war effort by composing different magical spells, pamphlets, etc. At least he tried--unlike the batshit nazi Mitford sisters

Very obvious now to me why I missed out on the gent.

 

[jsenleo]

Very obvious now to me why I missed out on the gent.

You didn't miss anything...

 

[vesuvius13]

Yes, but I think it was some time after Deboers departure that Hiller lost the o-line room. It was the Nebraska game after Frost had been fired that it was evident that the kids had completely shut down on Hiller.

I bet this team is much better this year and we will see as the season goes along. I am betting it is much better this year. Cignetti and coaches know how to attack defenses and this defense is something they don't know about enough about it unlike knowing what coach Allen would call.

 

[vesuvius13]

Jeez. I wander if anyone told a very experienced tight end that the onside kick was a live ball and if came toward that maybe he should jump on it? Nah probably never was told that...ever. I don't know if you ever coached and maybe V can verify. You talk about it all week long. You work all week long on something. You practice something and then the game comes and the kids do not execute it. Is that really the coaches fault? Or maybe is it the kids fault? Now if you work on something and the kid never gaccomplished what you wanted, then yes the kid should have been replaced and that is the coaches fault.

Whatever the problem was IU's whole front line took off and they didn't know it was coming the ST coach was Kasey Teegard didn't tell the first wall to stay.
.

 

[vesuvius13]

He is a jerk to coach Allen and he lost OL players but couldn't see it which is why he was fired. Not to mention he was fired but coach Allen could see he lost the OL.

 

[vesuvius13]

IU hired a very good guy and he brought many of his coaches to IU. He kept Bostad for OL coach and brought in DB coaches to replaced the DB coaches that weren't very good.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

He is a jerk to coach Allen and he lost OL players but couldn't see it which is why he was fired. Not to mention he was fired but coach Allen could see he lost the OL.

The big issue was that Allen held on to the guy 1 season too long. Some might argue that Hiller should have been gone at the end of 2021. But I will credit TA for finding a guy (Bostad) that is solid at this slot.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Whatever the problem was IU's whole front line took off and they didn't know it was coming the ST coach was Kasey Teegard didn't tell the first wall to stay.
.

How do you know he never told them to expect the onside kick? Did you not warn your kids on KOR team to hold their position until the ball was past them every time they went on the field? I know we do.

 

[OpenWheels]

How do you know he never told them to expect the onside kick? Did you not warn your kids on KOR team to hold their position until the ball was past them every time they went on the field? I know we do.

Tom Allen and team likely weren't as good at coaching.

Coach Allen did say he told them about it. I am not hunting a link but remember Coach Allen claiming they told them 'watch for it". Which apparently means they weren't coached up, wouldn't it? Because even 'watching for it' they didn't seem to know what to do.

I'm skeptical that even a throw away 'watch for it' was made, at least no more in depth than that, meaning maybe it got to one or two guys. But don't want to call Allen a liar, just something was missed in the communication.

This was a staff that had to call timeout in a different game, before the first play. I guess that was on the players.
Everything was on the players. How stupid were our players that they couldn't prepare themselves?
.

 

[vesuvius13]

How do you know he never told them to expect the onside kick? Did you not warn your kids on KOR team to hold their position until the ball was past them every time they went on the field? I know we do.

That is what we did on KO return, don't turn until the kick goes over your head. One thing I like about the new staff is they don't just move on with a comment about a mistake but rerun the play until it is right. It seems to me this is much more effective to get the message across instead of what the previous staff did.

 

[Pigalow]

…doesn’t yet have a realistic view of what it is going to take to be competitive in the B10. He’s filling this roster out with a bunch of former JMU and other Sun Belt level athletes. His arrogance could be leading him to believe that it won’t matter. There may be a sobering, reality check in store for us this fall….

I think he knows what's up, but he's trying to instill confidence and a new attitude into the program. At least the bulk of the Sunbelt talent he's brought in has been among the better players on there respective teams, & JMU was a very good team, & starters off that roster can play in theB1G, imo. Lack of size concerns me at some spots, but I think we'll be a markedly better team this season. Depth is going to be our Achilles heel at certain spots. Especially DL. Another couple bodies would REALLY help. If only Blidi has stayed, we'd Ave a ice starting package. If ain't worth squat too, & we might not have pulled West if Bludi stayed

 

[red hornet]

I think he knows what's up, but he's trying to instill confidence and a new attitude into the program. At least the bulk of the Sunbelt talent he's brought in has been among the better players on there respective teams, & JMU was a very good team, & starters off that roster can play in theB1G, imo. Lack of size concerns me at some spots, but I think we'll be a markedly better team this season. Depth is going to be our Achilles heel at certain spots. Especially DL. Another couple bodies would REALLY help. If only Blidi has stayed, we'd Ave a ice starting package. If ain't worth squat too, & we might not have pulled West if Bludi stayed

You're right about Blidi's situation. I'd trade Blidi for CJ West anytime. Sometime things work out for the best

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Kinda believe these transfers that came in will provide better competition in drills and practice for the competition needed in determining the 1's, 2's and 3's for rotational depth. Just the circumstances of mixing JMU level achievers with our '23' B1G roster should create fierce competitiveness. More so than past offseasons. I'm all for it cause Cignetti orchestrated it. Smart plan to my thinking.

 

[76-1]

Kinda believe these transfers that came in will provide better competition in drills and practice for the competition needed in determining the 1's, 2's and 3's for rotational depth. Just the circumstances of mixing JMU level achievers with our '23' B1G roster should create fierce competitiveness. More so than past offseasons. I'm all for it cause Cignetti orchestrated it. Smart plan to my thinking.

He had to do something to reset the overall TEAM mindset/approach so in that sense bringing in the JMU guys seems to be a good move...

My only concern is that he may actually believe JMU was capable of playing a Big Ten schedule and still having a winning record last Fall... If he's deluded himself into believing that then we might be in for a long season... Confidence is a good thing to have... Hubris..., not so much...

Right now I believe our greatest weakness is at Linebacker, specifically MLB... If Cignetti truly believes he can win while playing his All Sunbelt guy from JMU at that position as the starter I fear he's in for a rude welcome to Big Ten Football...

I'm extremely disappointed that we haven't brought in at least one more LB from the Portal to go along with the guy from UMass...

Perhaps we still have a shot at Nigel Glover -

Ohio State linebacker enters transfer portal

.

www.on3.com

There might be a slim chance we could grow our own from one or two of these guys:

Reece Bellin - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Reece Bellin (27) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a walk...

iuhoosiers.com

Anthony Chung - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Anthony Chung (31) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a wal...

iuhoosiers.com

Clay Conner - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Clay Conner (36) DB - 2023 (Freshman Season) Did not see any game action and redshirted his initial collegiate season ... joined the program as a walk-...

iuhoosiers.com

Roman Purcell - Football - Indiana University Athletics

Roman Purcell (19) QB - 2023 (Sophomore Season) Did not see any game action.

iuhoosiers.com

That would probably require them to put on 12 to 23 pounds of muscle in 3 and a half months while also learning the position during the summer (actually probably even more as a decent sized Big Ten level Inside Linebacker usually runs at about 230+ pounds of "good weight" just to survive the battering they sustain over a full Big Ten season) which might be a really Big ask but from what I'm seeing we're extremely thin at that Inside Linebacker position and could use all the help we can get...

 

[Mark Milton]

He had to do something to reset the overall TEAM mindset/approach so in that sense bringing in the JMU guys seems to be a good move...

My only concern is that he may actually believe JMU was capable of playing a Big Ten schedule and still having a winning record last Fall... If he's deluded himself into believing that then we might be in for a long season... Confidence is a good thing to have... Hubris..., not so much...

Right now I believe our greatest weakness is at Linebacker, specifically MLB... If Cignetti truly believes he can win while playing his All Sunbelt guy from JMU at that position as the starter I fear he's in for a rude welcome to Big Ten Football...

I'm extremely disappointed that we haven't brought in at least one more LB from the Portal to go along with the guy from UMass...

Of all the JMU guys that transferred in that you saw play in the spring game, which of those players was worse than a returning player? I didn't see one. I suppose you could argue that Sarratt might be worse than Williams or McCulley, but Sarratt is legit.

Missing out this spring were the two OL (Stephens and Kidwell), the DT (Carpenter) and the linebacker (Walker) was dinged up, who is supposed to be outstanding.

Just going by position group makes things even clearer:

QB: Rourke/Jackson of 2024 is far better than 2023 Sorsby/Jackson;
RB: Black (JMU); Ellison (portal); Lawton (JMU) are better than last year's crew of Lucas, et al;
WR: Sarratt (JMU), Price, McCulley, Cooper, EJ WIliams, Cooper, Cross and Ke'Shawn Williams are light years above last year's group.
OL: Carter/Stephens (JMU)/Katic/Kidwell (JMU)/Wedig might be better than last year's group or it might be a draw, but I will take Stephens, Kidwell, Wedig over Benson all day
DL: Kamara (JMU); West; Carpenter (JMU); Burris, Carr, Tucker will be better than last year's group as a whole with Carter/Blidi/Cox and Lucas gone. Cox and Lucas were not good at all. Kamara might end up being a better pass rusher than Carter and Carpenter/Burris will be far more active in this system. And CJ west is the real deal when you watch him play against really good teams;
LB: We lose Casey, and that's a problem, but Fisher appears to be a quicker version than Casey and active. Not sure he is quick to diagnose as casey tho. Walker is great. He is legit and is an upgrade. Again, two JMU guys who are clearly better than what was on the roster.
CB: Pond is a legit player (another JMU guy). Losing Minor hurts, but Jamier Johnson looked good in spring game. Not sure what to make of Sharpe. I think we have a pretty good shot at being a lot better at the corner position
S: Losing Moore hurts. I think the guys we have that were in for spring looked decent enough, but Moore was damn good.

Point being is that the JMU guys that came in were all upgrades--not even sure it was close. Sad to say, but Allen's staff did not ultimately recruit well enough overall and certainly not consistent enough over the years. Pretty sure the current staff would likely echo that sentiment.

 

[76-1]

Of all the JMU guys that transferred in that you saw play in the spring game, which of those players was worse than a returning player? I didn't see one. I suppose you could argue that Sarratt might be worse than Williams or McCulley, but Sarratt is legit.

Missing out this spring were the two OL (Stephens and Kidwell), the DT (Carpenter) and the linebacker (Walker) was dinged up, who is supposed to be outstanding.

Just going by position group makes things even clearer:

QB: Rourke/Jackson of 2024 is far better than 2023 Sorsby/Jackson;
RB: Black (JMU); Ellison (portal); Lawton (JMU) are better than last year's crew of Lucas, et al;
WR: Sarratt (JMU), Price, McCulley, Cooper, EJ WIliams, Cooper, Cross and Ke'Shawn Williams are light years above last year's group.
OL: Carter/Stephens (JMU)/Katic/Kidwell (JMU)/Wedig might be better than last year's group or it might be a draw, but I will take Stephens, Kidwell, Wedig over Benson all day
DL: Kamara (JMU); West; Carpenter (JMU); Burris, Carr, Tucker will be better than last year's group as a whole with Carter/Blidi/Cox and Lucas gone. Cox and Lucas were not good at all. Kamara might end up being a better pass rusher than Carter and Carpenter/Burris will be far more active in this system. And CJ west is the real deal when you watch him play against really good teams;
LB: We lose Casey, and that's a problem, but Fisher appears to be a quicker version than Casey and active. Not sure he is quick to diagnose as casey tho. Walker is great. He is legit and is an upgrade. Again, two JMU guys who are clearly better than what was on the roster.
CB: Pond is a legit player (another JMU guy). Losing Minor hurts, but Jamier Johnson looked good in spring game. Not sure what to make of Sharpe. I think we have a pretty good shot at being a lot better at the corner position
S: Losing Moore hurts. I think the guys we have that were in for spring looked decent enough, but Moore was damn good.

Point being is that the JMU guys that came in were all upgrades--not even sure it was close. Sad to say, but Allen's staff did not ultimately recruit well enough overall and certainly not consistent enough over the years. Pretty sure the current staff would likely echo that sentiment.

If we're counting on Fisher (at Middle Linebacker) to slow down a Big Ten running game we're in deep trouble...

If we can't find someone better at that position the Big Ten teams will average 250+ on the ground against us...

He makes a lot of tackles..., 7+ yards down the field... We need someone who can diagnose the play and stop the run at the line of scrimmage, not 3/4's of the way to a 1st down.