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Dennett’s attitude towards religion

Uncle, your remarks about the country losing social capital and becoming more individualistic reminds me of Robert D. Putnam's book Bowling Alone.

The book was written circa 2000 but contends this shift started about 1950.

Lately some authors look to today's youth and blame cell phones for kids becoming isolated.

If Putnam was right, the shift toward individualism started long before cell phones.
You are the second person in a week or so who has mentioned that book. I'm familiar with the title and it covers. Wish I would have bought it back then instead of now at $40.00 for hardcover copy
 
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You are the second person in a week or so who has mentioned that book. I'm familiar with the title and it covers. Wish I would have bought it back then instead of now at $40.00 for hardcover copy
$1.27. You're welcome.

 
A close analog might be modern day Jews--many are atheists but still participate for the meaning, culture, etc

Define many.


Three-quarters of U.S. Jews say they believe in God or some spiritual force in the universe, including 26% who say they believe in “God as described in the Bible” and about twice as many (50%) who believe in some other spiritual force.
 
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Truth. My mom still cannot accept my belief system (or lack thereof). I literally have the same conversation over and over with her-borrowing a phrase from Hitch: "mom, I'm perfectly content with you playing with your toys, but I do not want your toys and I do not want to play with your toys".....

Moral of Hitchens' philosophy was always "believe what you want, but don't be an ass".
Did your father believe in Christianity?
 
Did your father believe in Christianity?
Yes, but he let me make my own mind up. I am the only one in my family (immediate-wife, kids), who is not a believer. Everybody ought to be able to make their own mind up. I still sing Christmas carols because that is what my kids want--even now. Still put on Christmas music and all that because my belief shouldn't ruin their enjoyment. No skin off my back.
 
Yes, but he let me make my own mind up. I am the only one in my family (immediate-wife, kids), who is not a believer. Everybody ought to be able to make their own mind up. I still sing Christmas carols because that is what my kids want--even now. Still put on Christmas music and all that because my belief shouldn't ruin their enjoyment. No skin off my back.
I agree everyone should freely get to choose to believe in a religion or not. Interestingly, my Dad is also the only one who isn’t a Christian in my family. That sucks you still have to sing Christmas carols. It’s one of the best selling points for atheism in my opinion.
 
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I agree everyone should freely get to choose to believe in a religion or not. Interestingly, my Dad is also the only one who isn’t a Christian in my family. That sucks you still have to sing Christmas carols. It’s one of the best selling points for atheism in my opinion.
"Happy Wife, happy life."

and when my kids are really little, they wanted me join in. And they loved Bing, Rosemary Clooney, etc carols.

I have probably read the new testament cover to cover 4 to 5 times. It didn't make sense to me when I was 12, it makes less sense now, for many different reasons-nothing particularly relevant to this conversation.
 
Since it sort of ties in with church as a way of bringing people together, David Brooks wrote a column about the nuclear family being a mistake. The story is behind a paywall, somehow I read it a month ago.

The general idea is that large extended families are better. Having grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles nearby is great. We have sold the nuclear family as the solution and it isn't.

I think there might be something to it. I remember reading about Roseto, PA. It was an Italian community with huge extended families. And there was zero heart disease. The studies concluded it was the closeness of the people.

I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle, but I think it would be a good idea.

 
The general idea is that large extended families are better. Having grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles nearby is great. We have sold the nuclear family as the solution and it isn't.

I think there might be something to it. I remember reading about Roseto, PA. It was an Italian community with huge extended families. And there was zero heart disease. The studies concluded it was the closeness of the people.

I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle, but I think it would be a good idea.

Since it sort of ties in with church as a way of bringing people together, David Brooks wrote a column about the nuclear family being a mistake. The story is behind a paywall, somehow I read it a month ago.

The general idea is that large extended families are better. Having grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles nearby is great. We have sold the nuclear family as the solution and it isn't.

I think there might be something to it. I remember reading about Roseto, PA. It was an Italian community with huge extended families. And there was zero heart disease. The studies concluded it was the closeness of the people.

I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle, but I think it would be a good idea.

You know Kody Brown hates all of his sister wives. All of em. And guess what. They hate him.

Interesting article. And you’re probably right re extended families but if you see one now gathered for anything other than a holiday it almost looks anachronistic.

Times have changed. We value other stuff. As the author notes. And as you write the genie can’t go back. I think of my own daughter. I tell her all the time you’re going away to school. You have no choice. And stay away. Stl sucks. Live in Florida. New York. La. Whatever.

And life is expensive. Crazy expensive at the moment. Families need two incomes. So people are busier. Mom ain’t home making cupcakes for aunt martha. And that doesn’t even speak to kids. Academy kids now play in leagues that encompass multiple states. Practice all the time. Not pickup. Organized shit. There’s just no free time

We devalued extended family time for nuclear family time and needs.

And none of the foregoing speaks to individuals. They too have changed. Don’t want to feel bound/stuck

Interesting read
 
You know Kody Brown hates all of his sister wives. All of em. And guess what. They hate him.

Interesting article. And you’re probably right re extended families but if you see one now gathered for anything other than a holiday it almost looks anachronistic.

Times have changed. We value other stuff. As the author notes. And as you write the genie can’t go back. I think of my own daughter. I tell her all the time you’re going away to school. You have no choice. And stay away. Stl sucks. Live in Florida. New York. La. Whatever.

And life is expensive. Crazy expensive at the moment. Families need two incomes. So people are busier. Mom ain’t home making cupcakes for aunt martha. And that doesn’t even speak to kids. Academy kids now play in leagues that encompass multiple states. Practice all the time. Not pickup. Organized shit. There’s just no free time

We devalued extended family time for nuclear family time and needs.

And none of the foregoing speaks to individuals. They too have changed. Don’t want to feel bound/stuck

Interesting read

Man U sucks 😂😂
 
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You know Kody Brown hates all of his sister wives. All of em. And guess what. They hate him.

Interesting article. And you’re probably right re extended families but if you see one now gathered for anything other than a holiday it almost looks anachronistic.

Times have changed. We value other stuff. As the author notes. And as you write the genie can’t go back. I think of my own daughter. I tell her all the time you’re going away to school. You have no choice. And stay away. Stl sucks. Live in Florida. New York. La. Whatever.

And life is expensive. Crazy expensive at the moment. Families need two incomes. So people are busier. Mom ain’t home making cupcakes for aunt martha. And that doesn’t even speak to kids. Academy kids now play in leagues that encompass multiple states. Practice all the time. Not pickup. Organized shit. There’s just no free time

We devalued extended family time for nuclear family time and needs.

And none of the foregoing speaks to individuals. They too have changed. Don’t want to feel bound/stuck

Interesting read
Bitcoin will fix it. Have her start dollar cost averaging into it. I’m starting my kids at 13. The future is bright.
 
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You know Kody Brown hates all of his sister wives. All of em. And guess what. They hate him.

Interesting article. And you’re probably right re extended families but if you see one now gathered for anything other than a holiday it almost looks anachronistic.

Times have changed. We value other stuff. As the author notes. And as you write the genie can’t go back. I think of my own daughter. I tell her all the time you’re going away to school. You have no choice. And stay away. Stl sucks. Live in Florida. New York. La. Whatever.

And life is expensive. Crazy expensive at the moment. Families need two incomes. So people are busier. Mom ain’t home making cupcakes for aunt martha. And that doesn’t even speak to kids. Academy kids now play in leagues that encompass multiple states. Practice all the time. Not pickup. Organized shit. There’s just no free time

We devalued extended family time for nuclear family time and needs.

And none of the foregoing speaks to individuals. They too have changed. Don’t want to feel bound/stuck

Interesting read
Yes, but if grandparents lived near kids they can help out, maybe babysitting, maybe running kids to practice, etc.

My paternal grandparents lived with us, I only rarely had a babysitter. But I had no paternal cousins and maternal cousins were no where close. I was jealous of friends who had those instant friends.

But today we move for jobs. Smaller farming based communities may well have extended families, but the big cities are more mercenary based.
 
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Since it sort of ties in with church as a way of bringing people together, David Brooks wrote a column about the nuclear family being a mistake. The story is behind a paywall, somehow I read it a month ago.

The general idea is that large extended families are better. Having grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles nearby is great. We have sold the nuclear family as the solution and it isn't.

I think there might be something to it. I remember reading about Roseto, PA. It was an Italian community with huge extended families. And there was zero heart disease. The studies concluded it was the closeness of the people.

I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle, but I think it would be a good idea.

I agree with that.
 
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Nothing you are writing is relevant to the notion of the supernatural, I don’t think. Again, go read the definitions. Look up an article on a naturalistic worldview v. Supernatural one.

Re “Truth” or “existence” (which is where this conversation will inevitably lead), I have strong Pragmatist leanings. The theory of gravity explains, predictively, phenomena in the real world. It is a tool to understand what is going on in our experience and a way to predict and control the natural world. You can think of it, in a way, as analogous to a Platonic form, just one created by human rationality.

Also, you seem to be arguing that if humans can’t say exactly why phenomena act a certain way at a certain time, then the supernatural or God exists. That would be a non sequitur. Atheism is completely compatible with finite human knowledge.

Maybe we should read Dan Dennett! His theories might help explain the Leviathan or Ahab’s motives.
I wanna get back to this after a day’s random thoughts. I understand naturalism to be that all of reality can be explained by science and human knowledge. Stated another way, that means the human mind is capable of understanding everything. I have never believed that. I think reality, in all its complexities is a human construct built around what we can comprehend. I think there is more.

For example, the notion that the universe had a beginning and the beginning was with the Big Bang is such a construct. I don’t think so. There is too many unanswerable and in my view questions beyond our understanding about that. We keep posing various ideas and theories to deal with that, but they are just various attempts at naturalism.
 
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Also, David Ortiz is in and he was suspected as well. Farce at this point. Rose bet on the Reds to win.
If Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, jones get in before Rose that’s bullshit.

Also, David Ortiz is in and he was suspected as well. Farce at this point. Rose bet on the Reds to win.
No one ever played harder. Not in any sport. Not even Roy keane
 
If Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, jones get in before Rose that’s bullshit.

Also, David Ortiz is in and he was suspected as well. Farce at this point. Rose bet on the Reds to win.
I’ll predict that within 10-15 years, with older HOF voters being replaced, and with pressure from “others,” there will be enough of a push to at least get Bonds in the Hall.

It will suck, but it’s inevitable.
 
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So I guess we’ve just figured out another movie classic you haven’t seen: Rudy.
That man bet on his own team. No one in sport ever cared more about sport than Pete rose. When you wear your hair like this sport is all you care about. That’s a toddler bowl cut
FNiIStOXIAAOViy.jpg
 
That man bet on his own team. No one in sport ever cared more about sport than Pete rose. When you wear your hair like this sport is all you care about. That’s a toddler bowl cut
FNiIStOXIAAOViy.jpg
I think he did more than that. That’s why Giammatti banned him for life.
 
You are the second person in a week or so who has mentioned that book. I'm familiar with the title and it covers. Wish I would have bought it back then instead of now at $40.00 for hardcover copy
You and Brad and your high-falootin' readin' and writin'......
 
Since it sort of ties in with church as a way of bringing people together, David Brooks wrote a column about the nuclear family being a mistake. The story is behind a paywall, somehow I read it a month ago.

The general idea is that large extended families are better. Having grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles nearby is great. We have sold the nuclear family as the solution and it isn't.

I think there might be something to it. I remember reading about Roseto, PA. It was an Italian community with huge extended families. And there was zero heart disease. The studies concluded it was the closeness of the people.

I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle, but I think it would be a good idea.

I am a born Hoosier and had lived in Indiana for 65 years, except for my military service. I love Indiana and never thought about moving. My 94 year old mother and my 3 sisters and most of my still living cousins live there.

We picked up and moved to Charlotte, NC, (a lot more expensive place to live, by the way) when we had our first grandchild. There was no way I was going to let her grow up without knowing her grandparents. I will always consider Indiana to be home and I'll always be a Hoosier, but I believe raising children around grandparents and family is more important.

I get why kids want to move away from their parents, but I think they have no idea what they're getting into when they start a family and relatives are far away.
 
I am a born Hoosier and had lived in Indiana for 65 years, except for my military service. I love Indiana and never thought about moving. My 94 year old mother and my 3 sisters and most of my still living cousins live there.

We picked up and moved to Charlotte, NC, (a lot more expensive place to live, by the way) when we had our first grandchild. There was no way I was going to let her grow up without knowing her grandparents. I will always consider Indiana to be home and I'll always be a Hoosier, but I believe raising children around grandparents and family is more important.

I get why kids want to move away from their parents, but I think they have no idea what they're getting into when they start a family and relatives are far away.
Lot to love here.

Some move away from their parents for a reason, though. Not everyone has fond memories of their upbringing.
 
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If Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, jones get in before Rose that’s bullshit.

Also, David Ortiz is in and he was suspected as well. Farce at this point. Rose bet on the Reds to win.
Ortiz is legit. Suspected is not convicted.
 
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