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Would you have fired these two coaches after two years

IU Scott

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Jun 28, 2014
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Greenfield Indiana
Kirk Farentz record after 2 years 4-19
Pat Fitzerald record after 2 years 10-14
Tom Allen Record after 2 years 10-14

All had no HC experience before their current HC job and struggled after 2 years. Not saying Allen will turn out to be like those coaches but those two were given a chance to succeed which Allen should get that chance as well.
 
Kirk Farentz record after 2 years 4-19
Pat Fitzerald record after 2 years 10-14
Tom Allen Record after 2 years 10-14

All had no HC experience before their current HC job and struggled after 2 years. Not saying Allen will turn out to be like those coaches but those two were given a chance to succeed which Allen should get that chance as well.
Problem is, I could list 100 coaches who got off to a 10-14 start, or worse, that continued to struggle. So...I guess my point is, he doesn't necessarily deserve that chance, at least not based on the fact that 2 coaches have turned it around after bad starts.
 
Kirk Farentz record after 2 years 4-19
Pat Fitzerald record after 2 years 10-14
Tom Allen Record after 2 years 10-14

All had no HC experience before their current HC job and struggled after 2 years. Not saying Allen will turn out to be like those coaches but those two were given a chance to succeed which Allen should get that chance as well.

You can tell if a program is improving beyond just the W-L record. Can anyone seriously assert that Tom Allen has improved the football program? Does the team get better over the course of the season? Are stupid penalties and errors kept to a minimum? Are players developed?

I don’t even get angry at Allen. He has been given limited resources to succeed and has done about as well as can be expected. I know even he has been frustrated at the lack of administration support. The blame goes higher up the food chain.
 
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Problem is, I could list 100 coaches who got off to a 10-14 start, or worse, that continued to struggle. So...I guess my point is, he doesn't necessarily deserve that chance, at least not based on the fact that 2 coaches have turned it around after bad starts.
I think any coach deserves 4 years to evaluate their process and have 1 recruiting cycle to see how his recruits are developing.
 
Kirk Farentz record after 2 years 4-19
Pat Fitzerald record after 2 years 10-14
Tom Allen Record after 2 years 10-14

All had no HC experience before their current HC job and struggled after 2 years. Not saying Allen will turn out to be like those coaches but those two were given a chance to succeed which Allen should get that chance as well.

No....because those coaches had history to build from. Successful immediate predecessors like Fry, Barnett and Walker with Rose Bowls and New Years Day Bowls under their belts. We hire a high school coach in the time it took Fred to walk down to the water cooler and had a bunch of guys right before him that did nothing.

Time to find a proven commodity.
 
It didn’t take Brohm four years to turn Purdue around. A good coach will make their mark immediately.
and he finished 6-6 both years where we finished 5-7 so that is not that much of a difference. So you are telling me 1 win a year is the difference between turning a program around. I guarantee that you and the other negative posters would still be ripping Allen if he was 6-6 both seasons like Brohm has finished.
 
Poor fan support. A perennial loser. A division that is stacked against them. The only coaches who would be interested in IU would be coaches who were fired or about to be fired. Or someone with strong ties to the state and school.
 
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No....because those coaches had history to build from. Successful immediate predecessors like Fry, Barnett and Walker with Rose Bowls and New Years Day Bowls under their belts. We hire a high school coach in the time it took Fred to walk down to the water cooler and had a bunch of guys right before him that did nothing.

Time to find a proven commodity.
He was not a high school coach when we hired him and had a few years of college assistant experience.
 
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and he finished 6-6 both years where we finished 5-7 so that is not that much of a difference. So you are telling me 1 win a year is the difference between turning a program around. I guarantee that you and the other negative posters would still be ripping Allen if he was 6-6 both seasons like Brohm has finished.

There is a huge difference between going 5-7 and losing to your rival and going 6-6, beating your rival, and playing in a bowl game. The perception of the two programs couldn’t be more different now.
 
Poor fan support. A perennial loser. A division that is stacked against them. The only coaches who would be interested in IU would be coaches who were fired or about to be fired. Or someone with strong ties to the state and school.

Michigan State lost 5 games this year and barely beat Rutgers. Penn State was nothing special either. The division is not an insurmountable hill. Going 0-3 against the supposedly weak West cost us a bowl game.
 
No....because those coaches had history to build from. Successful immediate predecessors like Fry, Barnett and Walker with Rose Bowls and New Years Day Bowls under their belts. We hire a high school coach in the time it took Fred to walk down to the water cooler and had a bunch of guys right before him that did nothing.

Time to find a proven commodity.
You guys sure can fire a coach real easy but who are you going to replace him with that you know would actually come here. You really think a proven coach would ever come here where the fan base is pathetic and the stadium is half empty after half time. I don't care one way or the other if we replace the coach but I have seen how changing coaches every few years has worked at IU so that is not the answer as well. Lets just say an Urban Myer type left their current job and in a couple of years we had an opening do you really think that type of guy would come here. We will never get that type of coach so whoever we get will not be a guarantee home run hire so it is a crap shoot either way.
 
No decent coach will come here because they know they won’t have the support needed from the administration. IU nickel and dimes everything in football. Who wants to deal with that crap?
 
No decent coach will come here because they know they won’t have the support needed from the administration. IU nickel and dimes everything in football. Who wants to deal with that crap?
You mean like the millions of dollars spent on our facilities over the last 10 years and all the upgrades of the facilities. The administration is supporting the program just fine but it is the fans that are not supporting the program.
 
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You mean like the millions of dollars spent on our facilities over the last 10 years and all the upgrades of the facilities. The administration is supporting the program just fine but it is the fans that are not supporting the program.

Every school in the conference has upgraded facilities. IU still has no football only facility and the lowest paid coaching staff in the conference. Our facilities are way behind what Purdue, Iowa, Illinois, and Minnesota have.
 
It didn’t take Brohm four years to turn Purdue around. A good coach will make their mark immediately.
6-6 is hardly world beating, it’s one more win a season more than Allen.

Not saying Allen has totally crushed it, but another good recruiting class and Penix at the helm and may be a different discussion next season. A second recruiting class and some staff tweaks should be allowed after end of second season!
 
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Every school in the conference has upgraded facilities. IU still has no football only facility and the lowest paid coaching staff in the conference. Our facilities are way behind what Purdue, Iowa, Illinois, and Minnesota have.
No matter how much you say does not mean it is correct. You said that the administration has shown no support for the program and it has been proven to you many tiems that they have indeed shown support for the program. It is not Glass's fault that the past administration did not do their job better but he has changed that.
 
No matter how much you say does not mean it is correct. You said that the administration has shown no support for the program and it has been proven to you many tiems that they have indeed shown support for the program. It is not Glass's fault that the past administration did not do their job better but he has changed that.

I didn’t say there was no support from the administration. I said it was not sufficient and certainly not comparable to what other peer schools receive. Purdue pays their football coaches almost double what IU does. Have you seen their practice facility?
 
I think any coach deserves 4 years to evaluate their process and have 1 recruiting cycle to see how his recruits are developing.
Perhaps, perhaps. I just.....really have zero confidence that our fortunes will improve the way that Iowa's & Northwestern's did, but....I'm not psychic. Psycho maybe, but that type of improvement just doesn't happen to IU football. The savior himself could be our coach, & we'd still find ways to lose. That's how it feels anyway. I've been through a lifetime of disappointing seasons, but for some reason, certain losses this year have REALLY bothered me more than most others. Iowa, Penn State, Minnesota, Purdue. The way we played, the way we coached, really angers me. Anyway, what r u gonna' do? I won't quit! Go Hoosiers!!
 
It didn’t take Brohm four years to turn Purdue around. A good coach will make their mark immediately.
So 13-12 is leaving a mark. Him and Allen had identical records going into the last two Bucket Games it just so happens Allen lost the games so by your assertion that Allen is a bad coach you should throw away those two wins and that makes him 11-12.
 
You can tell if a program is improving beyond just the W-L record. Can anyone seriously assert that Tom Allen has improved the football program? Does the team get better over the course of the season? Are stupid penalties and errors kept to a minimum? Are players developed?

I don’t even get angry at Allen. He has been given limited resources to succeed and has done about as well as can be expected. I know even he has been frustrated at the lack of administration support. The blame goes higher up the food chain.
When did he get angry at the lack of administration support? I'm not aware, interesting.
 
There is a huge difference between going 5-7 and losing to your rival and going 6-6, beating your rival, and playing in a bowl game. The perception of the two programs couldn’t be more different now.
If he’d won the game it still would not be enough let’s be honest. IU fans think that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. They will always find a reason to be critical. And I am not talking about all IU fans because there are the one’s that choose to be objective and choose to see the good things that are happening and choose to be patient.
 
and he finished 6-6 both years where we finished 5-7 so that is not that much of a difference. So you are telling me 1 win a year is the difference between turning a program around. I guarantee that you and the other negative posters would still be ripping Allen if he was 6-6 both seasons like Brohm has finished.

You seriously think people would be just as pissed off if Indiana had just qualified for their fourth bowl game in a row after beating Purdue for the sixth time in a row? I do think some would point to stagnation after winning six for four seasons in a row, but we would be talking about one of the most successful stretches in program history after increasing to nine conference games.
 
If he’d won the game it still would not be enough let’s be honest. IU fans think that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. They will always find a reason to be critical. And I am not talking about all IU fans because there are the one’s that choose to be objective and choose to see the good things that are happening and choose to be patient.

False.

Most IU fans can accurately assess what they're seeing on the field, and were fairly accurate that 4-8 or 5-7 was the eventual outcome after the Iowa debacle given the staff.

We've given this guy two years to simply pull off one....ONE upset as an underdog. It ain't happening.

I'm giving the guy a chance, but he has shown no ability to even slightly exceed expectations.

We need something a little more dynamic.
 
Perhaps, perhaps. I just.....really have zero confidence that our fortunes will improve the way that Iowa's & Northwestern's did, but....I'm not psychic. Psycho maybe, but that type of improvement just doesn't happen to IU football. The savior himself could be our coach, & we'd still find ways to lose. That's how it feels anyway. I've been through a lifetime of disappointing seasons, but for some reason, certain losses this year have REALLY bothered me more than most others. Iowa, Penn State, Minnesota, Purdue. The way we played, the way we coached, really angers me. Anyway, what r u gonna' do? I won't quit! Go Hoosiers!!
now if god sent his only son to be our qb, that would be a REAL sacrifice compared to hanging on a cross
 
and he finished 6-6 both years where we finished 5-7 so that is not that much of a difference. So you are telling me 1 win a year is the difference between turning a program around. I guarantee that you and the other negative posters would still be ripping Allen if he was 6-6 both seasons like Brohm has finished.
This is a good point. With much more HC experience, much higher staff salaries, better QBs and the best freshman playmaker in the country, Brohm was 7 pts. better than Allen. That’s a pretty narrow margin given the huge gap in perceptions of the two coaches right now.

If the current commits all sign, TA will have a chance to prove his mettle. Like most, I have my reservations about Allen, but especially given what he has already done on the recruiting trail, he deserves another year or two to work.
 
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This is a good point. With much more HC experience, much higher staff salaries, better QBs and the best freshman playmaker in the country, Brohm was 7 pts. better than Allen. That’s a pretty narrow margin given the huge gap in perceptions of the two coaches right now.

If the current commits all sign, TA will have a chance to prove his mettle. Like most, I have my reservations about Allen, but especially given what he has already done on the recruiting trail, he deserves another year or two to work.
I agree if we fall flat on our face next year then it is time to look t the HC position even though I still think every coach should get 4 years.
 
If he’d won the game it still would not be enough let’s be honest. IU fans think that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. They will always find a reason to be critical. And I am not talking about all IU fans because there are the one’s that choose to be objective and choose to see the good things that are happening and choose to be patient.
Huh? IU fans think the grass is always greener on the other side? We think the grass is always brown on our side, because it is. "Always find a reason to be critical", right, we should be praising a lifetime of losing seasons I suppose. Yes, we choose to be patient, because there is no other choice, aside from not participating. I would say I admire your remarkable optimism, accept that you taint it by criticizing those that are not optimistic, who absolutely do not deserve criticism, not whatsoever. At this point, I have little shame in saying that IU is fortunate to have us loyal fans, because this is supposed to be a 2 way relationship, just like all relationships are, but this is has long been lots of give & little take. If your happy with that, good for you, but I sure as hell don't think disgruntlement on the part of IU football fans is unwarranted. Furthermore, attitudes of eternal & blind optimism, are the same ones that result in our fans being satisfied & appeased by "moral" victories, & proud to play the big boys tough, even in defeat. I HATE that attitude. That is a MAJOR reason why our program wallows around at the bottom of the friggin' college football world.
 
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and he finished 6-6 both years where we finished 5-7 so that is not that much of a difference. So you are telling me 1 win a year is the difference between turning a program around. I guarantee that you and the other negative posters would still be ripping Allen if he was 6-6 both seasons like Brohm has finished.
Allan had a much better football team handed to him than Bromm did.
 
Take a look at Lou Holtz. He tried to turn South Carolina into a power. 0-11 his first year and then two bowl teams. And then two 5-7 teams (sound familiar?). Then a 6-5 team and he was done. 33 wins and 37 looses. 19-29 in conference. Think about that when you are planning CTA's hypothetical replacement
 
Huh? IU fans think the grass is always greener on the other side? We think the grass is always brown on our side, because it is. "Always find a reason to be critical", right, we should be praising a lifetime of losing seasons I suppose. Yes, we choose to be patient, because there is no other choice, aside from not participating. I would say I admire your remarkable optimism, accept that you taint it by criticizing those that are not optimistic, who absolutely do not deserve criticism, not whatsoever. At this point, I have little shame in saying that IU is fortunate to have us loyal fans, because this is supposed to be a 2 way relationship, just like all relationships are, but this is has long been lots of give & little take. If your happy with that, good for you, but I sure as hell don't think disgruntlement on the part of IU football fans is unwarranted. Furthermore, attitudes of eternal & blind optimism, are the same ones that result in our fans being satisfied & appeased by "moral" victories, & proud to play the big boys tough, even in defeat. I HATE that attitude. That is a MAJOR reason why our program wallows around at the bottom of the friggin' college football world.
You truly believe two years is adequate amount of time to turn around this program then you are truly don’t understand college athletics. The fact that Tom Allen has brought in the classes that he has should tell you something. The fact that he has high school coaches that believe in him and willingly send him should mean something. The fact the kids do play hard and never quit in any game should mean something. You can continue to bury your head in the sand and make believe that this team was underachieving if you want. You can pretend like it is to try to prepare for games against Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State then you get a couple of games off then you get to prepare for Michigan. It is extremely tough to get kids up to believe they can beat those teams especially when you have things go against you early on it easy to adapt that here we go again attitude that our fans have. Just kills me how people can just sit back and just bad mouth everything and pretend they know any thing. There is more than just simply looking at record and saying whether season was a success or failure.
 
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Kirk Farentz record after 2 years 4-19
Pat Fitzerald record after 2 years 10-14
Tom Allen Record after 2 years 10-14

All had no HC experience before their current HC job and struggled after 2 years. Not saying Allen will turn out to be like those coaches but those two were given a chance to succeed which Allen should get that chance as well.
Did they inherit a program coming off 2 bowl seasons?
 
You truly believe two years is adequate amount of time to turn around this program then you are truly don’t understand college athletics. The fact that Tom Allen has brought in the classes that he has should tell you something. The fact that he has high school coaches that believe in him and willingly send him should mean something. The fact the kids do play hard and never quit in any game should mean something. You can continue to bury your head in the sand and make believe that this team was underachieving if you want. You can pretend like it is to try to prepare for games against Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State then you get a couple of games off then you get to prepare for Michigan. It is extremely tough to get kids up to believe they can beat those teams especially when you have things go against you early on it easy to adapt that here we go again attitude that our fans have. Just kills me how people can just sit back and just bad mouth everything and pretend they know any thing. There is more than just simply looking at record and saying whether season was a success or failure.
What r u talking about? Did you read my post? I didn't say anything about 2 years being an adequate amount of time for CTA, or CTA at all. That has nothing to do with anything. It's about you complaining about others daring to be unhappy & not seeing the obvious(or maybe it's oblivious?)bright side to yet another losing season, & other inexplicably positive outlooks that you have, which is fine, for you, but how you think it's reasonable &/or appropriate to expect others to feel the same, not only that, but to chastise others for not being a part of your delusions of grandeur is whack as hell. Whatever, you're probably not going to read(or understand, maybe)this anyway.
 
You truly believe two years is adequate amount of time to turn around this program

Turn around this program? Tom Allen inherited a team that went to back-to-back bowl games. He should know, he coached and lost the second one.

Nobody here expected him to suddenly start winning 10 games. But would it really be too much to ask to maybe try and sustain the program? Two years with no bowl and no Bucket. There's no other way to spin it, the football program under his stewardship has regressed.

You mention Ohio St. Michigan, Michigan St, and Penn St. as extremely tough to prepare for, which they are. And those teams aren't going away. So how about starting with the Iowas, Minnesotas, and even the Purdues first? Indiana isn't even beating those teams. If Tom Allen can't motivate his players to beat those teams, he has no business being a head coach.

Nobody here has their head in the sand. Except maybe you.
 
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What r u talking about? Did you read my post? I didn't say anything about 2 years being an adequate amount of time for CTA, or CTA at all. That has nothing to do with anything. It's about you complaining about others daring to be unhappy & not seeing the obvious(or maybe it's oblivious?)bright side to yet another losing season, & other inexplicably positive outlooks that you have, which is fine, for you, but how you think it's reasonable &/or appropriate to expect others to feel the same, not only that, but to chastise others for not being a part of your delusions of grandeur is whack as hell. Whatever, you're probably not going to read(or understand, maybe)this anyway.
There are no delusions of grandeur on my behalf. I know that the Indiana head football job is one of the toughest jobs in college sports. You have a very small fan base of true fans. From what I see on here they are not very football savvy. They are not not even close to as passionate about football as they are about basketball and yes there was a great deal of success in the past for the hoops team. But even during the lean years post Coach Knight era. The crowds did not drop off for long and continued to support the team and were able to help attract big time players. I do believe high school football in Indiana is better than most people give it credit for there are some really outstanding players that played in Indiana however the state does not have anywhere the number of D1 players as Florida or California or Georgia or Texas. And the really good players don’t stay in state they go to Michigan or Ohio State or even Clemson. So you can’t keep your best players home. Hopefully Sampson James stays with IU. IU has put together a decent pipeline from Tampa now we want to fire the coach before they get to mature. They as I continue to say play in the toughest division in college football. The fans want a winner but aren’t willing to do what it takes. Support the team good or bad. Support the coaches give them a chance to coach kids they bring in. Must have more realistic expectations. This was not a year to expect a 7 or 8 win season with all of the losses on defense. You had a three qb competition in spring and fall camp. You had receivers coming off major injuries. You lose your running just before the first game.The strength of your team was supposed to be the offensive line which was your weakness the year before.i don’t know how people expected so much more from this team this year. Yes expectations should be for 6 maybe 7 next year.
 
Turn around this program? Tom Allen inherited a team that went to back-to-back bowl games. He should know, he coached and lost the second one.

Nobody here expected him to suddenly start winning 10 games. But would it really be too much to ask to maybe try and sustain the program? Two years with no bowl and no Bucket. There's no other way to spin it, the football program under his stewardship has regressed.

You mention Ohio St. Michigan, Michigan St, and Penn St. as extremely tough to prepare for, which they are. And those teams aren't going away. So how about starting with the Iowas, Minnesotas, and even the Purdues first? Indiana isn't even beating those teams. If Tom Allen can't motivate his players to beat those teams, he has no business being a head coach.

Nobody here has their head in the sand. Except maybe you.

He has no business being a head coach. This much is obvious. He had 2 years that all he needed was 6 wins to maintain and he crapped the bed.
 
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