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Would someone explain the science behind this?

You (& many others) continue to pick single issues to attack & address when in fact there are many variables & reasons both for & against vaccination. It is narrow minded, although an attractive approach for people whose goal is to belittle, degrade, & use insults to coerce people into doing what they think is right for everyone. I agree that the unvaccinated may very well increase the threat to me, & I can choose to stay home if I wish to not be exposed. I just don’t think I should get to tell people what to put in their bodies, especially with so many unknowns & the constant flip-flopping…
You wrote, "I agree that the unvaccinated may very well increase the threat to me, & I can choose to stay home if I wish to not be exposed."

The way you presented it, staying home is not a choice -- it's being forced on others by the unvaccinated health threat that you recognized. That's no choice.

You wrote, "I just don’t think I should get to tell people what to put in their bodies," but you're fine telling people to stay home to avoid exposure to the unvaccinated. Make up your mind whether you're going to force people or not.
 
You wrote, "I agree that the unvaccinated may very well increase the threat to me, & I can choose to stay home if I wish to not be exposed."

The way you presented it, staying home is not a choice -- it's being forced on others by the unvaccinated health threat that you recognized. That's no choice.

You wrote, "I just don’t think I should get to tell people what to put in their bodies," but you're fine telling people to stay home to avoid exposure to the unvaccinated. Make up your mind whether you're going to force people or not.
My neighbor’s dog likes to chase it’s own tail, like you are here.

If you’re scared of the unvaccinated, you can choose to stay home, it is a choice. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.

I don’t believe people should be made to put things in their bodies. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.
 
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I'm in Mobile this weekend. Today after my meetings, I wanted to stop and get a little cheap bottle of booze for the hotel and the FB game. I went to 3 different Haji-Mart liquor stores that was NO MASK, NO ENTRY. I wanted a $4 bottle.. I found a Bubba-mart liquor store, asked about mask and THEY all said, Eff that.. I bought a $40 bottle of Suger creek that I didn't want to start with, AND the $4 of cheap hootch.
Pay sanity forward people! Cheers, and oh yea, 21-0 ! ! ! ! You can thank me. It's Hootch Karma.
 
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My neighbor’s dog likes to chase it’s own tail, like you are here.

If you’re scared of the unvaccinated, you can choose to stay home, it is a choice. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.

I don’t believe people should be made to put things in their bodies. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.
Actually, if you're scared of the vaccine, you should stay home and be safe. Stop making it complicated.
 
In 2016, there were 62 deaths for 100,000 due to falls.
07Sept2021, there were 1.92 US deaths per 100,000 due to Covid.

Story question, How many fall deaths were due to Covid (i.e. worrying about Covid or reading a MSM article about Covid)?
Are you talking about the total number of Covid deaths in the US as of Sept 7? If so, it was about 200 per 100,000 - not 2. Also, that death rate from falls is for people 65 and older. The Covid death rate for 65 and older per 100,000 is A LOT higher than 200.
 
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"Hey look, I am vaccinated and I want you to be as confident in MY safety as I am. Please go get vaccinated you Pube, POS that will eventually kill someone and I might get infected anyway, although I am vaccinated and better than you".

That's pretty much my take on it. I was once close to getting jabbed, but then the belittling and shaming started rolling. We have more cases now than we did before there were any vax at all.
I fall well within the, rip off the band aid, group. Due to the paranoid Panaphobics, this is turning into another 20 year war when it could be over in a few months. But it seems they don't want the progress that can be attained if everyone has natural immunity and we don't live in fear any longer.
^^^What a fool.
 
"Hey look, I am vaccinated and I want you to be as confident in MY safety as I am. Please go get vaccinated you Pube, POS that will eventually kill someone and I might get infected anyway, although I am vaccinated and better than you".

That's pretty much my take on it. I was once close to getting jabbed, but then the belittling and shaming started rolling. We have more cases now than we did before there were any vax at all.
I fall well within the, rip off the band aid, group. Due to the paranoid Panaphobics, this is turning into another 20 year war when it could be over in a few months. But it seems they don't want the progress that can be attained if everyone has natural immunity and we don't live in fear any longer.
I didn’t realize you were an immunologist. Thanks for all your information!

You’re right, I’m so embarrassed that I got vaccinated. I’m embarrassed to be liberal. 🤨
 
Look at the USAToday article I linked above. 43 hospitals could not take a heart patient. Many states have stopped all but emergency procedures which should reduce ICU capacity some from its norm.

Here are some numbers in KY. 481 in ICU. If numbers hold true to around the country, 440+ of them are unvaccinated. There would be NO ICU problem if those 440 were vaccinated. 1708 COVID patients total in Kentucky hospitals. Again, if numbers hold true, 1350 of those would not be there if they were vaccinated.

In addition, those are the current numbers. People are released through death or getting better. So it is not as if 440 is the total for Kentucky ICUs for the year.


43 ICUs turned him away because they were inundated with COVIDS patients, so he died of heart failure.
 
Again, what are you worried about?
Uhm... I'd rather not see Joe dead?

Otherwise, you're right. There's nothing really in it for me. Maybe that's why I have a hard time understanding you people. Not selfish enough.
 
I think (could be wrong of course) that they think of vaccines as loss of autonomy over their body whereas "my choice my body" isn't entirely accurate bc it's killing another's body: the baby. So they care about the body of the baby but not the body of people they infect with Covid. Illogical. I'm horribly hungover so may be missing the mark
It’s bigger than autonomy. I’m in favor of vaccines and I am against mandates. In the larger sense, individual responsibility needs to be encouraged at every level government. We can’t do that by telling people what to do. Individual responsibility builds better people. Better people means better communities. Better communities means better government. Individual responsibility is better for all of us.

I get the idea that we should take away individuality for emergencies and to foster the greater good. However, if I am vaccinated, there is no emergency that others must also be. All of us looked forward to safe and effective vaccines for most of 2020. Now we have it. that’s still not enough for many people. We now demonize and are instructed to be angry at the unvaxxed. The disease/government complex rumbles on.

Oh, on our tandem ride to a Starbucks yesterday, I saw a mom and kid bicycle up as we did. No helmets. But they put their masks on to go inside. Sigh.
 
It’s bigger than autonomy. I’m in favor of vaccines and I am against mandates. In the larger sense, individual responsibility needs to be encouraged at every level government. We can’t do that by telling people what to do. Individual responsibility builds better people. Better people means better communities. Better communities means better government. Individual responsibility is better for all of us.

Would you agree that sometimes it's ones individual responsibility to give up his freedom (in a very limited sense)?
 
You’re entitled to that opinion. With all his warts, Trump was better than Hillary and it’s not close when comparing what we have now. That’s my opinion.

I don’t call you racist, phobe, rube or hillbilly for your opinion about Biden.

That same consideration hasn’t been given by democrats for almost 5 years now. So yea, that pisses me off.
Hillary would have been a better POTUS and leader.
 
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It’s bigger than autonomy. I’m in favor of vaccines and I am against mandates. In the larger sense, individual responsibility needs to be encouraged at every level government. We can’t do that by telling people what to do. Individual responsibility builds better people. Better people means better communities. Better communities means better government. Individual responsibility is better for all of us.

I get the idea that we should take away individuality for emergencies and to foster the greater good. However, if I am vaccinated, there is no emergency that others must also be. All of us looked forward to safe and effective vaccines for most of 2020. Now we have it. that’s still not enough for many people. We now demonize and are instructed to be angry at the unvaxxed. The disease/government complex rumbles on.

Oh, on our tandem ride to a Starbucks yesterday, I saw a mom and kid bicycle up as we did. No helmets. But they put their masks on to go inside. Sigh.
Is it really a mandate, be tested weekly or be vaccinated does not seem like a true mandate. Be vaccinated or fired is a mandate. The idea one can substitute weekly testing is not some major penalty for non vaccination.
 
Would you agree that sometimes it's ones individual responsibility to give up his freedom (in a very limited sense)?
Of course . But that really isn’t the point. Instead it’s the sovereign taking away responsibility.
 
Is it really a mandate, be tested weekly or be vaccinated does not seem like a true mandate. Be vaccinated or fired is a mandate. The idea one can substitute weekly testing is not some major penalty for non vaccination.
An OSHA rule that carries penalties for non compliance seems like a mandate.
 
Is it really a mandate, be tested weekly or be vaccinated does not seem like a true mandate. Be vaccinated or fired is a mandate. The idea one can substitute weekly testing is not some major penalty for non vaccination.

I think it's only the OSHA rule for private enterprises that has the testing loophole. The others (Fed workers/contractors and medicos accepting Medicare/Medicaid) don' have that proviso. I think. ICBW. Not going to bother trying to find out for sure.
 
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So you find even a testing mandate is going too far?
That’s a close question when it is a condition of having a job.

I think we should be buying millions of at home tests and giving them away to be used by people and workplaces as needed. Forget about more rules, regulations, penalties, and name calling.
 
So you find even a testing mandate is going too far?

That’s a close question when it is a condition of having a job.

I think we should be buying millions of at home tests and giving them away to be used by people and workplaces as needed. Forget about more rules, regulations, penalties, and name calling.

You just can't bring yourself to go along with anything Biden is doing, can you?
 
An OSHA rule that carries penalties for non compliance seems like a mandate.
It is a mandate, but is it a vaccine mandate? You talk about using fear, by stressing VACCINE mandate and ignoring the testing half of the mandate. It is a "testing or vaccine mandate".

Now Mc is right, for federal employees it is a vaccine mandate. But I do not think people complain about that as I think people accept an employer can have rules.
 
If you’re scared of the unvaccinated, you can choose to stay home, it is a choice. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.
I wish it was that simple. That is like saying that I have to stay home because a certain percentage of people are out randomly shooting a rifle and killing a few people along the way. If it was short term then I would agree with you but staying home forever is NOT a choice that will work forever so the problem has to be taken care of. People have to work and make a living among other things.
 
That’s a close question when it is a condition of having a job.

I think we should be buying millions of at home tests and giving them away to be used by people and workplaces as needed. Forget about more rules, regulations, penalties, and name calling.

Why would people that refuse a vaccine give a shit about an @ home test. Talk about a total waste of resources. A huge % of these people think Covid is entirely fake.
 
So our school had a dad die this past week of covid. Has 3 kids under age 8 and was 44 years old. The wife/ mom was in the hospital as well, but recovered. Both were anti-vaxxers. Really a sad situation for the kids. Now they want to raise money to help the youngest kids stay in our preschool, as they are unlikely to be able to afford it. We donated a grand, even though these parents were clearly Darwin award winners... but kids don't get to choose their parents.
 
My neighbor’s dog likes to chase it’s own tail, like you are here.

If you’re scared of the unvaccinated, you can choose to stay home, it is a choice. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.

I don’t believe people should be made to put things in their bodies. Quit trying to make it complicated, because it’s not.
I like your thinking, but the tables should be turned on the unvaccinated. They should stay home.
 
So our school had a dad die this past week of covid. Has 3 kids under age 8 and was 44 years old. The wife/ mom was in the hospital as well, but recovered. Both were anti-vaxxers. Really a sad situation for the kids. Now they want to raise money to help the youngest kids stay in our preschool, as they are unlikely to be able to afford it. We donated a grand, even though these parents were clearly Darwin award winners... but kids don't get to choose their parents.

I don't get it, in thread after thread we are told we shouldn't care about stories like this. But it is sad mostly because it was easily preventable.
 
I like your thinking, but the tables should be turned on the unvaccinated. They should stay home.

Like the mask mandates for schools. Nobody likes it, but if that's the price to pay for in-person learning, than so be it.

The anti-mask zealots can have the option of keeping their kids home and have a virtual bullshit option.
 
I wish it was that simple. That is like saying that I have to stay home because a certain percentage of people are out randomly shooting a rifle and killing a few people along the way. If it was short term then I would agree with you but staying home forever is NOT a choice that will work forever so the problem has to be taken care of. People have to work and make a living among other things.
I take the vaccine because it protects me. Having it on board permits me to live more or less normally. If my vaccine protects you, that’s a bonus, but it’s not the primary reason I took it. My granddaughter is not vaxed and she attends in person school, rides a bus, etc. i don’t alter my behavior around her, don’t wear a mask, don’t make her wear a mask, etc. I’m perfectly comfortable around her because I am vaxed. I’m very comfortable going places and being around people because I am vaxed. I don’t understand why more people don’t feel similarly. I don’t understand why Biden went the direction he went with his vaccine speech. That was wrong on many levels.
 
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It's never "in a very limited sense". I knew this shit would happen once we decided that I have to give up my liberty and personal responsibility over wearing a seat belt, because I MIGHT fly through the wind shield in an accident and harm someone else. OR I might require extra expense for medical care causing other people's insurance cost to go up.
I would like to see a comprehensive list, from the very beginning, of every "in a very limited sense" law that has taken away MUCH more than the very limited intent, of each specific law.
I think it would show that TODAY we are at the inflection point where generations of liberal BS and conservative's giving just "one more inch", totally ruin the greatest nation ever born to this earth. And we have set and allowed "in very limited sense" kill everyone of us.
Lib's, stop helping, it's killing us!
Would you agree that sometimes it's ones individual responsibility to give up his freedom (in a very limited sense)?
 
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