Wittman Quote on RMK

[SixthFlagComing]

“We came here because of him,” former Indiana player Randy Wittman, who worked behind the scenes to secure Knight’s return to Assembly Hall, said. “It wasn’t because of the weather and as I told coach, as much as the academics were a big part, it wasn’t because of the academics. We came here to play for coach.”

When I heard Witmman say this it got me thinking about recruiting and the top high school players today. You would never hear them say something like that today. The kids almost always say things like, "I think school X will help me reach my long term goal of getting to the NBA." I don't even think the active coaching legends have kids coming their way any more simply because they want to play for that particular coach. It's just a more "it's time to be selfish" era.

So, as I've said in other posts, I think IU fans have to accept three brutal truths:

1) The coach is far less important and far less impactful in college basketball today than he/she was 40 years ago. In his early years at IU Coach Knight was actually innovating/inventing the motion offense. That's not the case any longer. Every coach is running some version of the same plays - it's the players that make the difference on the floor.

2) The IU brand continues to be muddled and needs to be re-worked in a way that makes it an attractive place for top kids in a me-first/get ready for the NBA era

3) The team with the best players wins most of the time. 90% of the success of the modern coach hinges on getting the best players. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

 

[oldcougar77]

“We came here because of him,” former Indiana player Randy Wittman, who worked behind the scenes to secure Knight’s return to Assembly Hall, said. “It wasn’t because of the weather and as I told coach, as much as the academics were a big part, it wasn’t because of the academics. We came here to play for coach.”

When I heard Witmman say this it got me thinking about recruiting and the top high school players today. You would never hear them say something like that today. The kids almost always say things like, "I think school X will help me reach my long term goal of getting to the NBA." I don't even think the active coaching legends have kids coming their way any more simply because they want to play for that particular coach. It's just a more "it's time to be selfish" era.

So, as I've said in other posts, I think IU fans have to accept three brutal truths:

1) The coach is far less important and far less impactful in college basketball today than he/she was 40 years ago. In his early years at IU Coach Knight was actually innovating/inventing the motion offense. That's not the case any longer. Every coach is running some version of the same plays - it's the players that make the difference on the floor.

2) The IU brand continues to be muddled and needs to be re-worked in a way that makes it an attractive place for top kids in a me-first/get ready for the NBA era

3) The team with the best players wins most of the time. 90% of the success of the modern coach hinges on getting the best players. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

A couple of observations:

Regarding point #1. We have the 30-second shot clock to thank for that. You can't be innovative on offense when you know you have 22 or 23 seconds to find a shot. IMO it is the worst thing to happen to the quality of college basketball in my lifetime (60 years). The decision by the the NCAA to allow the game to turn into wrestlemania again in the last couple of years has compounded the problem (and the B1G is the biggest offender in this regard by far).

As for #3, that hasn't changed in the history of the game. Wooden didn't win all those championships with players he developed. He won by recruiting the best players in the nation to UCLA. The players who played on IU's championship-level teams for Coach Knight were the best players in the country coming out of high school. They just happened to be mostly from Indiana and surrounding states. Bob Knight didn't teach Steve Alford, Randy Wittman, or Ted Kitchel how to shoot the ball. They came here as great shooters. He didn't teach Isaiah Thomas to be a dominant point guard or Kent Benson how to be a great post scorer - they got here with those skills.

Unfortunately, Indiana high school basketball sold its soul a few years ago to the "play more games, practice less" AAU model. We now fail to turn out the number of kids with strong fundamentals we once did. That takes away one of the great advantages IU and Purdue once enjoyed in recruiting. Now we have to compete with everyone else for many of the pieces necessary to have a great team.

I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but this IU team isn't poorly coached. It is severely talent deficient on the perimeter. We do not have guards with the necessary offensive skills to compete with the best teams in the league consistently. That doesn't excuse Archie, because he has failed to attract quality shooters and scorers to IU. That's a huge part of the job.

I still think this team will be a top twenty team next year if everybody returns and stays healthy - providing we can add a true shooter who is ready to play right away. Phinisee is clearly playing injured and limited, and Franklin is improving but still plays like a freshman. Durham should be a guy playing 15 minutes a game off the bench, but we don't have that luxury. Green should be in another program.

The inability to make open shots from the perimeter magnifies every other weakness and compounds every mistake. It makes every turnover a dagger and places extreme pressure on the team to be perfect each possession. With a 30-second shot clock, a poor shooting team cannot control a game with pace and patience. If we had any ability whatsoever to make open shots, we defend and rebound well enough to be competitive with anybody in the country.

 

[VanPastorMan]

A couple of observations:

Regarding point #1. We have the 30-second shot clock to thank for that. You can't be innovative on offense when you know you have 22 or 23 seconds to find a shot. IMO it is the worst thing to happen to the quality of college basketball in my lifetime (60 years). The decision by the the NCAA to allow the game to turn into wrestlemania again in the last couple of years has compounded the problem (and the B1G is the biggest offender in this regard by far).

As for #3, that hasn't changed in the history of the game. Wooden didn't win all those championships with players he developed. He won by recruiting the best players in the nation to UCLA. The players who played on IU's championship-level teams for Coach Knight were the best players in the country coming out of high school. They just happened to be mostly from Indiana and surrounding states. Bob Knight didn't teach Steve Alford, Randy Wittman, or Ted Kitchel how to shoot the ball. They came here as great shooters. He didn't teach Isaiah Thomas to be a dominant point guard or Kent Benson how to be a great post scorer - they got here with those skills.

Unfortunately, Indiana high school basketball sold its soul a few years ago to the "play more games, practice less" AAU model. We now fail to turn out the number of kids with strong fundamentals we once did. That takes away one of the great advantages IU and Purdue once enjoyed in recruiting. Now we have to compete with everyone else for many of the pieces necessary to have a great team.

I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but this IU team isn't poorly coached. It is severely talent deficient on the perimeter. We do not have guards with the necessary offensive skills to compete with the best teams in the league consistently. That doesn't excuse Archie, because he has failed to attract quality shooters and scorers to IU. That's a huge part of the job.

I still think this team will be a top twenty team next year if everybody returns and stays healthy - providing we can add a true shooter who is ready to play right away. Phinisee is clearly playing injured and limited, and Franklin is improving but still plays like a freshman. Durham should be a guy playing 15 minutes a game off the bench, but we don't have that luxury. Green should be in another program.

The inability to make open shots from the perimeter magnifies every other weakness and compounds every mistake. It makes every turnover a dagger and places extreme pressure on the team to be perfect each possession. With a 30-second shot clock, a poor shooting team cannot control a game with pace and patience. If we had any ability whatsoever to make open shots, we defend and rebound well enough to be competitive with anybody in the country.

I'm with you on shooting. If we had shooters then our record would be a lot better and we would be far more competitive and fun to watch.

 

[SCOOTER59]

The ironic thing is Purdue still runs a lot of motion offense, in fact one of the reasons the Boilers are playing better the last few games is they are running more motion and less structured plays.

 

[CC Mac]

The ironic thing is Purdue still runs a lot of motion offense, in fact one of the reasons the Boilers are playing better the last few games is they are running more motion and less structured plays.

Purdue has shooters,IU does not.

 

[snarlcakes]

If we had any ability whatsoever to make open shots, we defend and rebound well enough to be competitive with anybody in the country.

We do not defend at a high level. Our offense is currently more efficient than our defense. We need to make open shots and learn how to play much better defense.

 

[ufo33]

We need shooters.

 

[Birnk403]

Purdue has shooters,IU does not.

Purdue has a winning culture, IU does not.

 

[iubud]

A couple of observations:

Regarding point #1. We have the 30-second shot clock to thank for that. You can't be innovative on offense when you know you have 22 or 23 seconds to find a shot. IMO it is the worst thing to happen to the quality of college basketball in my lifetime (60 years). The decision by the the NCAA to allow the game to turn into wrestlemania again in the last couple of years has compounded the problem (and the B1G is the biggest offender in this regard by far).

As for #3, that hasn't changed in the history of the game. Wooden didn't win all those championships with players he developed. He won by recruiting the best players in the nation to UCLA. The players who played on IU's championship-level teams for Coach Knight were the best players in the country coming out of high school. They just happened to be mostly from Indiana and surrounding states. Bob Knight didn't teach Steve Alford, Randy Wittman, or Ted Kitchel how to shoot the ball. They came here as great shooters. He didn't teach Isaiah Thomas to be a dominant point guard or Kent Benson how to be a great post scorer - they got here with those skills.

Unfortunately, Indiana high school basketball sold its soul a few years ago to the "play more games, practice less" AAU model. We now fail to turn out the number of kids with strong fundamentals we once did. That takes away one of the great advantages IU and Purdue once enjoyed in recruiting. Now we have to compete with everyone else for many of the pieces necessary to have a great team.

I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but this IU team isn't poorly coached. It is severely talent deficient on the perimeter. We do not have guards with the necessary offensive skills to compete with the best teams in the league consistently. That doesn't excuse Archie, because he has failed to attract quality shooters and scorers to IU. That's a huge part of the job.

I still think this team will be a top twenty team next year if everybody returns and stays healthy - providing we can add a true shooter who is ready to play right away. Phinisee is clearly playing injured and limited, and Franklin is improving but still plays like a freshman. Durham should be a guy playing 15 minutes a game off the bench, but we don't have that luxury. Green should be in another program.

The inability to make open shots from the perimeter magnifies every other weakness and compounds every mistake. It makes every turnover a dagger and places extreme pressure on the team to be perfect each possession. With a 30-second shot clock, a poor shooting team cannot control a game with pace and patience. If we had any ability whatsoever to make open shots, we defend and rebound well enough to be competitive with anybody in the country.

I agree with most of what you have written. The area we are lacking is mental toughness. I don't know that a coach can teach that and it is hard to evaluate in a kid that has always dominated or has rarely faced failure on the court.

One trend I have seen the last two years is that we make shots when we are hopelessly out of the game. I noticed a while back that RoJo would be great from outside if others were scoring and we had a big lead. When the game is lost, Green and sometimes Durham can turn a 20 point deficit to a 12 point margin. People praise their efforts in the post game shows, but most of their points might have come in the last few minutes.

I get frustrated when we start scoring when the pressure of the game is off and winning isn't an issue. We let teams impose their wills on us and don't counter attack. If we do fight back, we seem to be the team that fails first.

 

[bailey777]

We need shooters.

We needed shooters in the spring and had two open grants. Nothing was done so I expect more of the same.

 

[CriticArisen]

A couple of observations:

Regarding point #1. We have the 30-second shot clock to thank for that. You can't be innovative on offense when you know you have 22 or 23 seconds to find a shot. IMO it is the worst thing to happen to the quality of college basketball in my lifetime (60 years). The decision by the the NCAA to allow the game to turn into wrestlemania again in the last couple of years has compounded the problem (and the B1G is the biggest offender in this regard by far).

As for #3, that hasn't changed in the history of the game. Wooden didn't win all those championships with players he developed. He won by recruiting the best players in the nation to UCLA. The players who played on IU's championship-level teams for Coach Knight were the best players in the country coming out of high school. They just happened to be mostly from Indiana and surrounding states. Bob Knight didn't teach Steve Alford, Randy Wittman, or Ted Kitchel how to shoot the ball. They came here as great shooters. He didn't teach Isaiah Thomas to be a dominant point guard or Kent Benson how to be a great post scorer - they got here with those skills.

Unfortunately, Indiana high school basketball sold its soul a few years ago to the "play more games, practice less" AAU model. We now fail to turn out the number of kids with strong fundamentals we once did. That takes away one of the great advantages IU and Purdue once enjoyed in recruiting. Now we have to compete with everyone else for many of the pieces necessary to have a great team.

I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but this IU team isn't poorly coached. It is severely talent deficient on the perimeter. We do not have guards with the necessary offensive skills to compete with the best teams in the league consistently. That doesn't excuse Archie, because he has failed to attract quality shooters and scorers to IU. That's a huge part of the job.

I still think this team will be a top twenty team next year if everybody returns and stays healthy - providing we can add a true shooter who is ready to play right away. Phinisee is clearly playing injured and limited, and Franklin is improving but still plays like a freshman. Durham should be a guy playing 15 minutes a game off the bench, but we don't have that luxury. Green should be in another program.

The inability to make open shots from the perimeter magnifies every other weakness and compounds every mistake. It makes every turnover a dagger and places extreme pressure on the team to be perfect each possession. With a 30-second shot clock, a poor shooting team cannot control a game with pace and patience. If we had any ability whatsoever to make open shots, we defend and rebound well enough to be competitive with anybody in the country.

I do not agree. If you look at the NCAA stats they make a lot of turnovers, they rebound poorly, and their defense gives up a high fg percentage. It is not only shooting where they don’t do well but each and every aspect of the game and that comes down to coaching.

Admittedly their shooting is horrific but nothing else i is good.

if you look through the NCAA team stats for IU they are embarrassing.

 

[CC Mac]

Purdue has a winning culture, IU does not.

And they also have shooters.

 

[Birnk403]

And they also have shooters.

Yes, they do, but none particularly consistent. What they have that IU must get is a culture of accountability. Scheme and capability are great, but everyone can play at that level. Culture is so much more.

 

[cryano]

I know I'll be bashed for saying this, but this IU team isn't poorly coached. It is severely talent deficient on the perimeter. We do not have guards with the necessary offensive skills to compete with the best teams in the league consistently. That doesn't excuse Archie, because he has failed to attract quality shooters and scorers to IU. That's a huge part of the job.

I still think this team will be a top twenty team next year if everybody returns and stays healthy - providing we can add a true shooter who is ready to play right away. Phinisee is clearly playing injured and limited, and Franklin is improving but still plays like a freshman. Durham should be a guy playing 15 minutes a game off the bench, but we don't have that luxury. Green should be in another program.

You should’ve started both those paragraphs the same...’I know I’ll be bashed...’

 

[steelyvan]

Ted Kitchel was not a great shooter on arrival to IU. He became a great shooter over time based on his work ethic.

 

[CriticArisen]

Ted Kitchel was not a great shooter on arrival to IU. He became a great shooter over time based on his work ethic.

I have never seen a shooter use the backboard as he did for 20’+ jump shots. He had a unique deadly shooting style.

 

[oldcougar77]

Ted Kitchel was not a great shooter on arrival to IU. He became a great shooter over time based on his work ethic.

Wrong. I saw him play in high school. He was a tremendous shooter. Not that he did not get better at IU, I'm sure he did. But he shot it better in high school than anybody we have on the current team.

 

[SIhoosier26]

1) The coach is far less important and far less impactful in college basketball today than he/she was 40 years ago.

This is simply not true, you need a coach that can both recruit and coach at a high level. Especially to get to where IU wants to go (final 4s, championships). That hasn't changed anymore today than it did back in the 1970s, in fact I would argue that having a coach that can pull elite recruits is even more important than it was then.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Purdue has shooters,IU does not.

Yup Sums it up

 

[SIhoosier26]

Purdue has shooters,IU does not.

And Purdue plays hard, IU does not. This is the second straight year the team has quit on Archie.

 

[Jg48]

And they also have shooters.

The have also had continuity in their program. Painter played for Purdue which had a very solid program under Keady. He was then Keady's understudy and took over when Keady retired. Two good coaches in thirty plus years. It almost like Purdue had a long term plan.
Wow, what a novel concept.

 

[Birnk403]

The have also had continuity in their program. Painter played for Purdue which had a very solid program under Keady. He was then Keady's understudy and took over when Keady retired. Two good coaches in thirty plus years. It almost like Purdue had a long term plan.
Wow, what a novel concept.

It’s culture. They programs that have it value it more than anything, while those that don’t have no idea what it is.

 

[ufo33]

Purdue has a winning culture, IU does not.

Purdue has a regular season culture with NO winning.
Purdue has never won the NCAA Tournament.
So they have never won.

 

[ufo33]

Purdue has a regular season culture with NO winning.
Purdue has never won the NCAA Tournament.
So they have never won.

IU currently is down but IU has actually won in the past, and can do so again with the right coach and players.

 

[Jg48]

It’s culture. They programs that have it value it more than anything, while those that don’t have no idea what it is.

Excellent point. IU administration wanted nothing to do with anything "Bob Knight". It essentially "threw out the baby with the bath water." Now we were are struggling to find an identity. I found it strange that Archie would not let the players see Bob Knight's return to AH. It seemed like a great opportunity to show the players that they are part of a great basketball tradition. All those great IU players...maybe it would have provided some inspiration. God knows they need some.

 

[Birnk403]

Purdue has a regular season culture with NO winning.
Purdue has never won the NCAA Tournament.
So they have never won.

Maybe so, but they’re able to do more with less, and they’re able to do much more than IU. We think we’re entitled to basketball elitism because we won five national championships, the most recent of which was 33 years ago. It doesn’t work that way, which should be painfully obvious to everyone.

 

[Birnk403]

Excellent point. IU administration wanted nothing to do with anything "Bob Knight". It essentially "threw out the baby with the bath water." Now we were are struggling to find an identity. I found it strange that Archie would not let the players see Bob Knight's return to AH. It seemed like a great opportunity to show the players that they are part of a great basketball tradition. All those great IU players...maybe it would have provided some inspiration. God knows they need some.

IU’s commitment to basketball has been nearly all “talk” and very little “do”, and the results are indicative of that.

 

[ufo33]

Maybe so, but they’re able to do more with less, and they’re able to do much more than IU. We think we’re entitled to basketball elitism because we won five national championships, the most recent of which was 33 years ago. It doesn’t work that way, which should be painfully obvious to everyone.

Agreed, the IU program is rudderless now, spinning around in circles.
At some point the program will go forward.

 

[Birnk403]

Agreed, the IU program is rudderless now, spinning around in circles.
At some point the program will go forward.

Why do say that? Because we’re IU?

 

[Mac66rose]

Excellent point. IU administration wanted nothing to do with anything "Bob Knight". It essentially "threw out the baby with the bath water." Now we were are struggling to find an identity. I found it strange that Archie would not let the players see Bob Knight's return to AH. It seemed like a great opportunity to show the players that they are part of a great basketball tradition. All those great IU players...maybe it would have provided some inspiration. God knows they need some.

 

[Mac66rose]

Iu team did meet with knight before the game, Archie had knight talk to the team.