Wisconsin Recruiting

Discussion in 'TheHoosier.com IU Hoop Forum' started by MikeHoncho69, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    I wanted to compare Wisconsin's roster to IU's in terms of recruiting, and the results might be a bit surprising. I only included the eight players that saw the floor against IU on Saturday. (Rankings from 247)

    Nate Reuvers ... 4-star ... 66th national
    Brevin Pritzl ... 4-star ... 94th national
    Brad Davison ... 4-star ... 108th national
    Tyler Wahl ... 3-star ... 204th national
    Micah Potter ... 3-star ... 243rd national
    Aleem Ford ... 3-star ... 320th national
    D'Mitrik Trice ... 3-star ... 333rd national
    Trevor Anderson ... 3-star ... 408th national

    Yet, these guys together managed to win the Big Ten and earn the #1 seed in the conference tournament. Goes to show the difference a coach can make. Greg Gard is the official 2019-20 Big Ten Coach of the Year.
     
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  2. wi_hoosier

    wi_hoosier Freshman
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    Also shows what a difference maturity can make.

    Nate Reuvers ... Junior
    Brevin Pritzl ... Grad Student
    Brad Davison ... Junior
    Tyler Wahl ... Fr (Played 4 minutes and i wouldn't really count him)
    Micah Potter .... RS Junior
    Aleem Ford ... RS Junior
    D'Mitrik Trice ... RS Junior
    Trevor Anderson ... RS Junior
     
  3. T.M.P.

    T.M.P. Hall of Famer
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    High School rankings are only good for High School players.
     
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  4. Birnk403

    Birnk403 Senior
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    The correct answer is that coaching plus experience equal a very good team and program.
     
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  5. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    Better chemistry and players that complement each other.
     
  6. Cavanagh

    Cavanagh All-Big Ten
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    wahl would start for IU. He is better than Justin Smith.
     
  7. wi_hoosier

    wi_hoosier Freshman
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    Exactly.

    Gard took over a team that was coming off a NC runner-up and years of consistency an an upper-echelon level. He was also from within the system. Yet they went 22-13, 27-10, 15-18, 23-11 before this year. It's not like this kids were world betters instantly. Yet, that is what a lot of people are asking of Miller. His recruits, except early enrollee Race, are only in their second season. I'm po'd at the lack of toughness, but I am also realistic on what building a winning culture takes.

    I have to also recognize that they loss 4 games that they had. Was that maturity, coaching, lack of a shooter, all, who knows??? but tilt just two of those (21-10) and we are having a very different feeling right now.
     
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  8. Pledgemygrievance

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    This is exactly CAMs goal - get old and stay old. Unfortunately the upperclass isn’t helping a lot consistently.

    CAM is trying to build it the mid-major / wisky way. Get mostly 4-year guys in the system. Graduate guys. Plug and play. It’s going to take some time to build, but once it’s built properly, IU will be near top of big ten for next 25 years. No reason IU can’t be the MSU of the past 20 years.
     
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  9. jwardelt

    jwardelt All-American
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    And we’re upgrading the talent in the next couple classes. Train keeps rolling.
     
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  10. Coachlosekamp

    Coachlosekamp Benchwarmer
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    You are right, Coach Miller is trying to get old and stay old.
    Look at Jay Wright, when he took over at Villanova from Coach Lappas, they were a weak team. It took him 4 years to make the tournament. Now he has built it old and is staying old. Just my thoughts and a bit of history.
     
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  11. cryano

    cryano All-Big Ten
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    Are they all from Indiana - because I heard you have to have Indiana kids because they inherently ‘know basketball’ and are the key to college basketball success.
     
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  12. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    It will definitely be interesting to see what Miller's program looks like when his main rotation consists of experienced upperclassmen.
     
  13. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    Exactly.

    If we're struggling to get into the dance when Race and Phinisee are seniors, then I'll believe the problem is Archie.
     
  14. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    I'm with you. I'm sure we will be labeled Archie lovers or something in that vain.
     
  15. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    Don't forget - besides the maturity - that all of those players have been playing in an established system (Gard has been in Madison since 2001 when Bo Ryan took over; he'd been the Associate Head Coach since 2008 and took over from Ryan after Girlfriend-gate in 2015).
     
  16. Cavanagh

    Cavanagh All-Big Ten
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    If IU is winning No1 will complain about Archie. They will treat him like a god. The term Archie lover will never be uttered, because it would be retarded.
     
  17. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    Hey, it's not like I don't WANT us to be better.

    But our best core of players is TJD (frosh) and three promising, but injury-plagued sophs (Hunter / Phinisee / Thompson). We get NOTHING in terms of leadership from our junior/senior classes.

    And with that roster, we beat Florida St, Michigan St, Ohio State, Iowa and Penn St. We let Wisconsin and Maryland off the hook late, which is frustrating. But all of our metrics show we're making progress.

    We need to get older. And have more depth. And add talent (Lander will be a big help next year if he completes his coursework). Unless we completely tank against Nebraska, we'll be in the NCAA Tournament. With a team whose margin for error is razor-thin (we saw how thin in the last 7 minutes Saturday).

    Are we where we WANT to be? No. But to build a program - especially one left by Crean and mis-managed over the last 20 years - it's gonna take time. IMHO I really think we're getting there. I could end up being wrong. We'll see.
     
  18. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    The big problem for many of these people who won't complain if Archie is winning is they really have no concept of what it takes to win consistently. They think "we're Indiana and have won 5 National Titles - we're better than the Penn States, Wisconsins, etc" . . . . where the truth is this program has been down for a long time because of very good reasons - we haven't recruited well, we had a style of play that wasn't conducive to consistent, long-term success.

    To establish that - especially after the diametrically opposite style Crean played - takes time. No one like to hear that, but it's the truth.
     
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  19. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    The one thing I will say is that everyone here is passionate about the program, although that passion is misguided at times. No one enjoys waiting as the program is built, but that's the hand we've been dealt.

    Now, if the Hoosiers show a tangible regression next season, that would be a massive red flag.
     
  20. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    Spot on
     
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  21. Cavanagh

    Cavanagh All-Big Ten
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    when was the last time PSU or Wisconsin got a McD’s all American? Lander would be one, so basically 3 in a row. Not to mention the other countless NBA guys under Crean. We have recruited for sure in the top 3 of the B1G in the timeframe you are talking about. Coaching has been the problem not talent.
     
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  22. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    No, we haven’t.

    2018 - we were first or second in B1G team rankings for recruiting (247 or Rivals)

    2019 - 5th or 6th (247 or Rivals)

    2020 - 5th or 6th (247 or Rivals). That rank could improve if Lander reclassifies.

    We’ve gotten good players. Romeo, but he obviously was leaving after a year. TJD.

    Other guys - like Phin, Race, Hunter - are gonna take time to develop. And a culture (which has been horrible) has to be established to allow that growth.
     
  23. Cavanagh

    Cavanagh All-Big Ten
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    From 247:
    2020 will be top 3 with lander.
    2019-6th because of only 2 recruits, but one was a burger boy.
    2018-2nd
    2017-3rd
    2016-3rd
    2015-5th
    2014-3rd
    2013-1st
    2012-1st
    2011-6th

    Id say that is top 3 over the last decade. Ya?
     
  24. snarlcakes

    snarlcakes Junior
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    It's not that difficult to understand. Some people have differing opinions on Archie. I don't think he's that good. Stop trying to obfuscate other people's opinions that differ from yours.
     
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  25. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    I'm not obfuscating anything. I was very clear about what I said. Have a great day!
     
  26. snarlcakes

    snarlcakes Junior
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    How do you know it's the hand that's been dealt? How do you know another coach couldn't have had more success than Archie? Let's take for example, Texas Tech. Beard was able to take Texas Tech to the elite 8 in year 2 and followed it up with a title game appearances in year 3. You don't think he could have won more games than, Archie?

    I highlighted and responded to what I was referring to above. Have a great day, as well.
     
  27. Tasmanian Devil

    Tasmanian Devil All-American
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    You're gonna blame the last decade on Archie? Ya?
     
  28. Cavanagh

    Cavanagh All-Big Ten
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    Im sure as hell not gonna blame it on recruiting, with the stats I just gave, that would be retarded.
     
  29. Crossblock

    Crossblock Sophomore
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    Only question is will that train be the victory train pulling into the station, or the wrecked train off the tracks along the steep curve?
     
  30. ams66

    ams66 Benchwarmer
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    We hired Archie. That's the hand we've been dealt. Nobody knows what another coach would or would not have done, we can only speculate.
     
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  31. jsig

    jsig Senior
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    Well not everybody is Chris Beard. What percentage of coaches turn around a program quickly as he did. Beilein took time at UM. Bennett took time at Virginia. Wright took time at Nova. How long did K take to get Duke going?

    Would I rather have all those coaches than Archie? Yes. Still think he deserves 4 years before a decent evaluation can be done. IMO, next year is when the progress needs to be seen. If they regress then I'm probably ready to see them move on.

    Would you like to have the Maryland coach. Maryland especially and to some extent MSU should be embarrassed that they did not win the league out right and let a spare team such as Wiscy be the one seed. The league is deep but fairly mediocre once you get past those 2, IMO.
     
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  32. oldcougar77

    oldcougar77 All-Big Ten
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    Chris Beard has lost 13 games this season. That includes 9 losses in a conference far weaker (top to bottom) than the B1G and the last 4 to date. A few of those losses have been similar to the "choke jobs" some posters here consistently pin on Archie.

    None of that means Chris Beard is a bad coach. He didn't begin to suck overnight. Quite the opposite, in fact. What happened this year is that Texas Tech has holes in its lineup. Just like IU.

    Beard was loaded the last two years with experienced players, including multiple transfers who were all-conference type performers at their previous schools. They weren't freshmen and sophomores that he was magically transforming into great teams.

    This Indiana team has one huge problem that is the difference between challenging for the conference championship and being two games below .500 - it has zero consistently good perimeter shooters. The other nonsense about "killer instinct" or substitution patterns or lack of player development is just that - nonsense.

    There is sometimes a sense of urgency found in experienced teams with strong player leadership that this IU team sometimes lacks. But mostly those late-game fades or prolonged scoring droughts are the result of individual failure to execute on the offensive end. There is a lack of confidence brought about by a lack of demonstrated competence. That can change in only two ways. One, that the players already here become better scorers or two, that we are more successful at recruiting better scorers.

    Archie and his staff bear the blame for the fact that we have not been able to find a strong shooter or two to add to this team the past two seasons. Failure to attract a player like that is squarely on the coach. In every other regard Archie Miller is as good as any coach in this conference and as good as most in the country.

    If you want to fire the coach at this stage because you believe he will not be able to recruit or develop better offensive players, that's an argument you can reasonably make, I suppose. I happen to disagree. If you believe that Archie Miller is inherently an inferior coach who should be having greater success with the players who happen to be here now, in their current state of experience and development, then you either don't have a very deep understanding of basketball or you are irrational - or both.
     
  33. snarlcakes

    snarlcakes Junior
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    . No he's not. That's you being irrational.

    Raises hand. Archie is an inferior coach and guys like Beard would have had greater success than him at this point. I'll start with some predictions for you. Archie won't ever win a national title at IU. He won't win more Big Titles than Tom Crean. His career winning percentages won't be north 70% ever at IU. He won't turn IU into a consistent top seed in the tourney. Do you care to make any objective predictions about Archie's greatness to back up your claim of rational deep understanding of basketball?
     
  34. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    Potter was a 4 star 80th ranked on ESPN.... but regardless was obvious he was best player on the floor. Not sure how old he is now... but guessing he's gotta be nearly 22.
     
  35. Hatchets7times

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    Yeah I'd trade Wisky's roster for UK's / Duke / & Kansas year in and out..
    Their a possible sweet 16 team.
    Or a game one loss..
     
  36. oldcougar77

    oldcougar77 All-Big Ten
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    Nope, just like none of the stuff you just predicted is objective in any way. Predicting outcomes for something that has so many variables is for fools. But thanks for exposing yourself here.

    As for my understanding of basketball, I'll take my experience over yours any day, all day. What I won't do is debate someone who already has his mind made up and can't be persuaded by logic. That's a waste of my time. So we'll disagree, and let time be the judge of who is correct.
     
  37. snarlcakes

    snarlcakes Junior
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    lol... I knew you wouldn't commit to anything so you could weasel your way out of it if he fails. Actually, all of those statements are objective that can be measured. I look forward to your next condescending post on how anyone who has differing opinion than oldcourgar lacks deep understanding of basketball.

    P.S. I have no issues being persuaded with facts. I'll gladly admit I was wrong if Archie goes on to win titles and etc.
     
  38. oldcougar77

    oldcougar77 All-Big Ten
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    I'll do likewise if he doesn't.
     
  39. MikeHoncho69

    MikeHoncho69 Benchwarmer
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    Yeah, I'd say he's 21 or 22. He played two seasons at Ohio State before transferring, so he's a very experienced player who brings leadership and production on both ends of the floor.
     
  40. JIMSHAM

    JIMSHAM Freshman
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    Like you and all the other screamers do on a regular basis?
     
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