Wiltfong crystal ball picks in for IU for...

Champs1976

Benchwarmer
May 18, 2020
260
314
63
Cooper might not be so much of a stretch, his QB McCulley is at IU so there's that.

Hoover's game film looks like he is better than a three star. great arm, quick release, good footwork, capable of different launch angles, reads the field pretty well and keeps his eyes downfield. In fact, Hoover's Junior year film looks better than McCulley's, but McCulley was much, much better as a Senior and is a far superior athlete. McCulley looked much more like a next level QB as a Senior with NFL potential. Give him a year in the weight room and to learn the offense and he will be tough beat out.

Having a lights out QB is much more important to IU than OSU, PSU or Michigan because the QB can make up for failings, or lack of talent in other areas.
 

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
We've got CB pix for Carter Smith too(I think he's committing tommorrow), but...how in the HELL can he only be a 5.5 on Rivals? He has offers from EVERYone, & is a high 3* on TOS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1 and vesuvius13

E.Z.Rider

Moderator
Moderator
Aug 29, 2001
2,903
1,402
113
Oregon
We've got CB pix for Carter Smith too(I think he's committing tommorrow), but...how in the HELL can he only be a 5.5 on Rivals? He has offers from EVERYone, & is a high 3* on TOS.
Perhaps they haven't had a chance to see him in person and have given him a modest rating with the expectation of correcting it in the future. He does have an impressive offer list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1 and vesuvius13

TMFT

Sophomore
Nov 4, 2019
787
2,274
93
I think OL ratings tend to not be as accurate.

Seems like a lot of our best OL were the ones rated the lowest.
OL is almost always a crapshoot just because you're so often dealing with outliers all across the country. There are only so many 6'5" 275 lb kids running around so it's hard to evaluate when they're not lining up against similar sized kids each week.

I like what I perceive to be CTAs OL philosophy, which I think is get kids that are long and fit that profile and try to put good weight on them vs just snagging big bodies and trying to get bad weight off. There are exceptions of course.
 

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
Perhaps they haven't had a chance to see him in person and have given him a modest rating with the expectation of correcting it in the future. He does have an impressive offer list.
In that instance they shouldn't assign any ranking until they evauate him. Imo, anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1 and vesuvius13

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
It's not a big deal ultimately on the field, but it matters in certain circles, otherwise there wouldn't be any player & team recruiting class rankings.

It matters in fan circles that go on websites like this.

Coaches don't base offers on them and players don't pick teams based on how many four and five star kids a team has.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1 and vesuvius13

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
It matters in fan circles that go on websites like this.

Coaches don't base offers on them and players don't pick teams based on how many four and five star kids a team has.
Ask the players & coaches if they care about rankings. I bet you my house they do for the most part--players especially. A lot of coaches might say they don't care, but they do. They all see the same rankings we do. That doesn't mean they select players based upon their ranking, but I can guarandamntee of the players they select they would prefer they be ranked as highly as possible. It all has to do with the perception of the program--it's part of success & reputation to recruit well. Not to mention there are politics involved in these rankings. Why do you think the mysterious bumps & dumps happen after a player commits someplace? Those schools have pull. One way or the other.
 

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
Ask the players & coaches if they care about rankings. I bet you my house they do for the most part--players especially. A lot of coaches might say they don't care, but they do. They all see the same rankings we do. That doesn't mean they select players based upon their ranking, but I can guarandamntee of the players they select they would prefer they be ranked as highly as possible. It all has to do with the perception of the program--it's part of success & reputation to recruit well. Not to mention there are politics involved in these rankings. Why do you think the mysterious bumps & dumps happen after a player commits someplace? Those schools have pull. One way or the other.

I can guarantee you 100% that Tom Allen isn't on rivals looking up Carter Smith's rating saying, man, he should be a 5.7 rated 3 star.

These coaches are looking at film and seeing if they will fit their system. They are bringing them on campus and seeing if they will fit with the culture. I will guarantee you that if a 5 star and a high 3 star come on a visit at the same time and the 3 star fits our team and culture and the 5 star is all about himself, we're passing on the 5 star and taking the 3 star every time.

The rankings are cool for fans and to building excitement for the fanbase, but they don't do anything once they get on campus. Remember David Kenney? How about Tim Gardner or Dominique Booth? More recently Rashawn Williams was a 4 star that didn't pan out for us.

Offer lists are generally a better indicator for a player to me. A player with offers from Auburn and Florida probably has a higher ceiling than a player with offers from Boston College or the MAC.

And like I said before, these kids hadn't been seen in person for over a year, so these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt. Kids have improved since then, so does it really matter in the first place?
 

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
I can guarantee you 100% that Tom Allen isn't on rivals looking up Carter Smith's rating saying, man, he should be a 5.7 rated 3 star.

These coaches are looking at film and seeing if they will fit their system. They are bringing them on campus and seeing if they will fit with the culture. I will guarantee you that if a 5 star and a high 3 star come on a visit at the same time and the 3 star fits our team and culture and the 5 star is all about himself, we're passing on the 5 star and taking the 3 star every time.

The rankings are cool for fans and to building excitement for the fanbase, but they don't do anything once they get on campus. Remember David Kenney? How about Tim Gardner or Dominique Booth? More recently Rashawn Williams was a 4 star that didn't pan out for us.

Offer lists are generally a better indicator for a player to me. A player with offers from Auburn and Florida probably has a higher ceiling than a player with offers from Boston College or the MAC.

And like I said before, these kids hadn't been seen in person for over a year, so these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt. Kids have improved since then, so does it really matter in the first place?
Again--if it doesn't matter, then why rank them? Why not just base the rankings entirely off of offer lists? & also again, if they haven't seen a player for over a year, then they should not assign any ranking to the player. That's just common sense. We can go 'round & 'round & keep saying the same things over & over again, but the bottom line is--I know it's somehow cool for some to pretend to they don't care about the rankkings, but I'm not stupid. I know that a lot of them do. Not saying you do, or anyone specifically, but they are thwre for reasons beyond fan entertainment. & of course they aren't the be all end all, or decide who gets offered-but coaches in general do care, & would prefer their kids be ranked well as opposed to not, but of course it's not what determines ofers.
 

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
Again--if it doesn't matter, then why rank them? Why not just base the rankings entirely off of offer lists? & also again, if they haven't seen a player for over a year, then they should not assign any ranking to the player. That's just common sense. We can go 'round & 'round & keep saying the same things over & over again, but the bottom line is--I know it's somehow cool for some to pretend to they don't care about the rankkings, but I'm not stupid. I know that a lot of them do. Not saying you do, or anyone specifically, but they are thwre for reasons beyond fan entertainment. & of course they aren't the be all end all, or decide who gets offered-but coaches in general do care, & would prefer their kids be ranked well as opposed to not, but of course it's not what determines ofers.

Rivals is a business that has been rating kids for as long as its been around. Why wouldn't they rate kid? It's there business model. It's not there fault recruiting got shut down for a entire year. They did the best they could, just like everyone else in the industry. You act like they had some say in what was going on in the world. They couldn't go out and scout kids.

Did you forget what was going on last year?
 
  • Like
Reactions: vesuvius13

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
Rivals is a business that has been rating kids for as long as its been around. Why wouldn't they rate kid? It's there business model. It's not there fault recruiting got shut down for a entire year. They did the best they could, just like everyone else in the industry. You act like they had some say in what was going on in the world. They couldn't go out and scout kids.

Did you forget what was going on last year?
As I said twice already--if they have reason to not know how to properly rank a kid--then DON'T RANK THEM!! That's already what they do when they haven't evaluated a player, so...what gives? & if it's a case that they evaluated a previously & he's clearly a different player worthy of a different ranking then I'm sure there are ways to affect that change rather than going with an old, obsolete ranking.
 

IU_Hickory

Senior
Aug 29, 2017
2,718
2,441
113
They shouldn't rank kids if they haven't properly evaluated a kid but I'm sure it happens.

You are right that players want their rankings to be as high as possible. Who wouldn't want their ranking to be awesome?

However, I don't see the coaching staff basing their recruiting plan on how players are ranked on rivals/247/espn. Getting highly ranked recruits would build excitement and possibly help with other recruits, I don't think any good coach would use that as the main reason in offering recruits. Whether or not said player is targeted by the staff and given an offer would come down to their own evaluation more than likely.

If Allen thought this player was great, fit the system, personality fit, hard worker and could help the team, then I am guessing he would offer regardless of what rivals or other services say about the player.
 
Last edited:

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
As I said twice already--if they have reason to not know how to properly rank a kid--then DON'T RANK THEM!! That's already what they do when they haven't evaluated a player, so...what gives? & if it's a case that they evaluated a previously & he's clearly a different player worthy of a different ranking then I'm sure there are ways to affect that change rather than going with an old, obsolete ranking.

I've already pointed out that there will be a couple ranking changes before signing day, so this really isn't a big deal in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vesuvius13

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
I've already pointed out that there will be a couple ranking changes before signing day, so this really isn't a big deal in the first place.
No, not a BIG deal, but that goes both ways--why not do it right, or better? That applies to...every endeavor in life(imo). This is what they do--this is their specialty. Why not try to do it better & more accurately? How much more effort would it take? That's just my philosophy though, trying to be a perfectionist, apparently.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: vesuvius13

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
No, not a BIG deal, but why not do it right, or better? That applies to...every endeavor in life(imo). This is what they do--this is their specialty. Why not try to do it better & more accurately? How much more effort would it take? That's just my philosophy though, apparently.

This isn't an exact science though.

Who says they are wrong? It's their opinion vs yours. They thought he deserved a three star. Also, most of Carter Smith's big offers came at the end of March, so a little context is needed here.

It's not like he's had them for a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vesuvius13

IU_Hickory

Senior
Aug 29, 2017
2,718
2,441
113
A lot of it is probably just a matter of getting the attention of the recruiting services. If you play for a big school, a school that has a lot of top players or play against stronger competition, then your chances of being found are likely greater.
 

Pigalow

All-American
Nov 8, 2012
5,968
3,658
113
This isn't an exact science though.

Who says they are wrong? It's their opinion vs yours. They thought he deserved a three star. Also, most of Carter Smith's big offers came at the end of March, so a little context is needed here.

It's not like he's had them for a year.
? You yourself said he should a be a 5.7? & that his ranking will change everntually--did you not say that? There are some instances in which that is the case(opinions varying). I don't believe this is one of them.
 

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
? You yourself said he should a be a 5.7? & that his ranking will change everntually--did you not say that? There are some instances in which that is the case(opinions varying). I don't believe this is one of them.

You should read what I said regarding that 5.7 rating again and the way I said it.....
 

Big Red Crimson Buffalo

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Aug 28, 2001
15,394
8,837
113
These coaches are looking at film and seeing if they will fit their system. They are bringing them on campus and seeing if they will fit with the culture. I will guarantee you that if a 5 star and a high 3 star come on a visit at the same time and the 3 star fits our team and culture and the 5 star is all about himself, we're passing on the 5 star and taking the 3 star every time.
The rankings are cool for fans and to building excitement for the fanbase, but they don't do anything once they get on campus. Remember David Kenney? How about Tim Gardner or Dominique Booth? More recently Rashawn Williams was a 4 star that didn't pan out for us.

Offer lists are generally a better indicator for a player to me. A player with offers from Auburn and Florida probably has a higher ceiling than a player with offers from Boston College or the MAC.

And like I said before, these kids hadn't been seen in person for over a year, so these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt. Kids have improved since then, so does it really matter in the first place?
With Rashawn Williams, wasn’t that due to some academic work that needed to be sorted through, thus the JUCO route?
 
  • Like
Reactions: vesuvius13

Baller23Boogie

Senior
Gold Member
Aug 17, 2008
2,432
3,875
113
These coaches are looking at film and seeing if they will fit their system. They are bringing them on campus and seeing if they will fit with the culture. I will guarantee you that if a 5 star and a high 3 star come on a visit at the same time and the 3 star fits our team and culture and the 5 star is all about himself, we're passing on the 5 star and taking the 3 star every time.

With Rashawn Williams, wasn’t that due to some academic work that needed to be sorted through, thus the JUCO route?

He was already here, redshirted and then transfered out to a juco.

He was a qualifier out of high school.
 

82hoosier

All-American
Sep 7, 2001
7,485
5,140
113
Wasn’t Juan Harris a four-star player? How many times did he flake out on Iowa and Indiana. And how many times in Indiana take him back?
 

Big Red Crimson Buffalo

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Aug 28, 2001
15,394
8,837
113
He was already here, redshirted and then transfered out to a juco.

He was a qualifier out of high school.
Yes - knew that he was here for a semester. .
Just surprised that when he left IU that he didn’t transfer to a D-1 school if was about dissatisfaction with IU. He went to a JUCO.

I guess the question was:

Why did he not transfer directly to an FBS school in a P5 conference?
 

iueyedoc99

Junior
Gold Member
Jul 30, 2012
1,863
1,736
113
A lot of it is probably just a matter of getting the attention of the recruiting services. If you play for a big school, a school that has a lot of top players or play against stronger competition, then your chances of being found are likely greater.
In all reality, college recruiting for most sports is a lot about the players marketing themselves now (typically through a paid recruiting service). Some players get “found” but many, especially in a sport like football without a robust club/aau system reach out to coaches with their own highlight tapes, or their HS coach makes calls on their behalf, or they go to camps at the colleges they are interested in.

Google “how to get recruited for college football” and you will see what I mean. It’s a gazillion $ industry with a lot of scholarship $$ at stake.

In my daughters AAA HS alone there are probably close to 20 kids with recruiting service memberships (golf, tennis, volleyball, track, you name it).