Wilson with the last laugh
- Thread starter fpeaugh
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His athletes took over.
Riddle me this oh wise one:
"Otis" was supposed to have improved Barrett's passing game. Hell, we heard he was connecting on 95% of his passes in spring ball, and yet, last night he couldn't hit much of anything. What did your hero do there in his development?
Nada.
I get it; you want a statue built for a coach who got us to 6 wins. Unfortunately, took him 6 years to figure out that you have to play defense as well. You don't belong Ordfan. Your judgment is clouded.
There were several drops too. He threw a perfect pass to Campbell that should've been a touchdown. He wasn't perfect but was good enough.
Well, to be fair, OSU lost a ton of players to the NFL and replaced them with a ton of players that will soon do the same.
Well, JTB was 20-35, 304 yards passing, 3 touchdowns, 8.7 yards per pass, 13 carries for 61 yards, and 596 total yards. Oh, and zero turnovers. Nada. If you can't see Wilson's hand in that, that's because your football vision is horrible.
The more you try to talk football, the more foolish you look. And the "Otis Campbell" references are neither clever or funny. They're just dumb. Every time.
It had absolutely nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with Glass's ego and wanting a "yes man" to bow down to his imaginary throne. I can't believe other IU fans give Glass a pass all the time.
Still don't think OSU would have scored a point
against Clemson even with Wilson.
If Glass cared more about the program than his ego, he would have found a way to keep Wilson and Allen together for a couple of years.
You might want to do a bit of objective research on that. I do agree that no one should get a pass all the time and Fred has been rightfully criticized for the recent compliance issue plus the extension of Crean as well as the extension of KW in the the midst of PIP.
As long as he has learned from experience and treats these kids reasonably, I wish him the best.
Lol....you mean like the Rutgers debacle in 2015? Yo have to call the most inept game plan sitting on a 24 point lead in the 4th quarter to lose a game like that. Yeah....he played all of them tough. dws
True....and we'll be saying the same likely when Lamar lights up your vaunted defense.
And Lagow threw for 410 yards and Cobbs had 149 receiving yards but you throw our coaches under the bus repeatedly. DeBord had "a hand in that."
And, yes, you know full well what the "Otis Campbell" reference means because it's true and you defend that behavior....because you condone it. You, sir, are a fraud.
Have you sat down and talked with Fred about this? I'm sure you are all about inside information on what went down.
And as a reminder:
2015 - Rutgers
2011 - Ball State
2012 - Ball State
2013 - Navy
2013 - Minnesota
All pure coaching clinics by the genius.
Both the Crean extension and the Wilson firing should be grounds for termination. Unfortunately IU doesn't have what it takes to be big time anymore. Now it's all about the optics and PR...with winning taking the backseat. That's why Fred Glass is still the AD.
The difference is your defense is expected to be really good. Ours isn't expected to be anything special at all.
As someone who was there, I'll give my two cents. It didn't occur to me as unusual at the time because I was 18 and it was just normalized. But I'll tell you in all honesty that individuals did not understand the defense and it wasn't emphasized. I'm talking about starters. Not even everyone who got into the game had a defensive playbook. Basic concepts were never explained to us. This isn't a joke. So while Wilson was a great offensive mind, he would even tell us straight up to our faces that he wasn't a defensive guy. I didn't find this unusual until around my senior year when I literally had to teach myself. Now that's on us as players for not taking the initiative to teach ourselves, but at some point don't you think a head coach should say, "hey, I'm going to get you all a playbook." "Hey I'm going to get someone to explain all of these route concepts to you." "Hey I'm not putting you on the field until you can tell me what this play call means." It was literally a situation in which guys had no sense of what was going on and the head coach never really went out of his way to emphasize it. Now I personally like CKW, felt bad when he got fired (although most of the stories are true and there are many more things that led to his firing may have been omitted), and think that he is a great offensive coordinator. But in hindsight, it's odd when a head coach has absolutely no competency in terms of what it means to play defense. We literally had guys who didn't understand what the purpose of cover 4 was. You may have noticed that we played off coverage often, and that teams could easily get first downs on third and long. It was literally never explained to corners that a weakness in quarters coverage is the underneath stuff, and that teams like to run a chains route (get to the chains and stop) in this situation. Looking back on it, it's actually amazing. That can explain some of the losses and I just don't see how a head coach can be that aloof. TA is a defensive guy, but don't you think he at least makes sure his offensive guys understand the basic fundamentals of offense? With Wilson there was no emphasis whatsoever towards explaining BASICS, or even ensuring that everyone who got into the game had a playbook. For example, I know for a fact that a safety who gave up a touchdown in 13' against ISU didn't have a playbook or understand that in cover he had deep quarters, yet this player was in the game. It's doubtful that Wilson even knew that this player didn't have a playbook...
I'd also mention that I'm aware that wilson's firing may have not been for legitimate football reasons, but there were legitimate football reasons to fire him. One of them being the comment that I previously posted. So glass may have inadvertently actually done something good here.
Thanks for the response. Sure, it does seem odd what you say. And ultimately that falls on Wilson if true.
But it's not his job to teach defense. Where was the DC? LB coach? DB coach? DL? That stuff is on them. It's up to the HC to recognize when there are problems with his coaches, but I don't want someone whose background is entirely offense out teaching the defense fundamentals. You hire a staff to do that.
And for what it's worth, I've talked to 3 of his former players (all starters) who all said essentially the same thing. Tough guy, very demanding, but good coach who brings the best out in players. All 3 really respected the guy. And only 1 was recruited by him.
As a head coach, surely you delegate but you have some ownership to make sure even the basics are covered. And this was Wilson's principal problem: he was essentially just an OC masquerading as a head coach. I mean.....c'mon: it takes you six seasons to realize that you better focus on defensive recruits and that it is the backbone of winning games? That's on him. He was hands off with defense and realized it way too late.
The defense had some historically bad numbers under Wilson in all of IU football history. The guy placed no emphasis there until it was too late.
And this is the key. When we beat PSU in 13' he literally acted like a head coach. That was peak CKW. He was focuse on both sides of the Ball that weak, simplified the plan, and everyone was on the same page. I remember Steven funderburk even saying it was interesting that we only had one coverage called for almost the entire game, but the mere fact that everyone KNEW WHAT TO DO completely changed the dynamics of that defense.
But that wasn't the norm. After the game he literally told the media that he, "couldn't give that kind of effort each week and that it was on everyone else." This is true to an extent, but he could have given some effort to at least ensure that the momentum continued on defense. I agree with both of you that this is why you hire assistants, but in hindsight if he had just given 50% of the effort that he gave during the PSU game we likely go bowling in 13'. Minnesota came up after that and although we had the fumble at the end, let's not forget that Minnesota scored in part because an LB and a safety simply didn't understand the coverage, and that was a theme throughout the game.
That sums up my time under Wilson. A lot left on the table. I wish that he hadn't have been fired, and most guys will tell you they like him, but in hindsight I just can't see urban Meyer or Kirk Ferentz allowing the kind of negligence that went on. im not saying he needed to coachs defense, but you'd figure he'd ensure that guys going into the game at least had a playbook? When you combine that with some issues that he may have had (and I'd say the stories are fairly accurate from some of the players who had complaints) he simply wasn't going to stick around. If he's 8-4 a couple of those years, he's still the HC. when we beat penn state for the first time, that is probably reflective of the kind of program we could have had under Wilson.
But that wasn't the norm. After the game he literally told the media that he, "couldn't give that kind of effort each week and that it was on everyone else." This is true to an extent, but he could have given some effort to at least ensure that the momentum continued on defense. I agree with both of you that this is why you hire assistants, but in hindsight if he had just given 50% of the effort that he gave during the PSU game we likely go bowling in 13'. Minnesota came up after that and although we had the fumble at the end, let's not forget that Minnesota scored in part because an LB and a safety simply didn't understand the coverage, and that was a theme throughout the game.
That sums up my time under Wilson. A lot left on the table. I wish that he hadn't have been fired, and most guys will tell you they like him, but in hindsight I just can't see urban Meyer or Kirk Ferentz allowing the kind of negligence that went on. im not saying he needed to coachs defense, but you'd figure he'd ensure that guys going into the game at least had a playbook? When you combine that with some issues that he may have had (and I'd say the stories are fairly accurate from some of the players who had complaints) he simply wasn't going to stick around. If he's 8-4 a couple of those years, he's still the HC. when we beat penn state for the first time, that is probably reflective of the kind of program we could have had under Wilson.
In the past, I remember reading quotes from CKW that he wasn't a defensive guy and his only real involvement defensively was to give input on what an opposing offense would do, or some of their tendencies. From what you've just said, he was somewhat more involved. Am I understanding correctly?
Too late? The guy took IU to back to back bowls for the first time in over 20 years. Fans are about to appreciate that a whole lot more when we look back at it in a few years. I can guarantee you that.
And he landed probably the best defensive class in the school's history in 2013. Not focused on defensive recruit? How do you think TA did so well (by IU's standards) last year? With someone else's recruits? You're REALLY struggling here man.
Oh, and also raising a ton of capital to build some kick-ass facilities. You conveniently left that out.
Tell me exactly when IU was "big time?"
Seriously. When was IU a "big time" devotee to it's sports programs and their improvement?
Are you specifically referring to the Bob Knight years when lucked into getting a guy wasn't even paid by his former ADs commensurate with what he achieved? Or the fact we played in a football stadium with no improvements from the late 1960s to 2007?
IU has ALWAYS BEEN one of the cheapest, stingiest athletic departments in all of the conference next to Purdue and Northwestern.
We were never "big time." If you believe that, I beg you to look at the budgets of our conference opponents over the years. We spent just a hair above the MAC schools.
99% of the money has come from the Big Ten Network. Something Glass had absolutely nothing to do with. All schools are building these facilities with so much money being divided up. This had nothing to do with Glass.
And IU was big time in basketball for about 30 years until Glass took over and brought his mediocre expectations. Giving out an absurd extension and letting Brad Stevens out of your back yard when your coach finishes last place in the conference 3 years in. That's inexcusable.
You get your Wilson statue ready then.
I'll be looking for it outside one of the bars in B-town. The guy should have been in a freaking bowl in 2013.
Allen was responsible for the defensive transformation. That's because he took control of it. Prior DCs turned to Otis for guidance and he basically look at them like a deer in the headlights. The reason for last year's bowl you may ask? Allen.
In fact, Wilson's offense last year damn near prevented us from a bowl without Allen saving his ass.
You have no idea the amount of fundraising that Glass has done for the projects. Not a clue.
While I am not happy with much of what I saw in the game, I have to admit that I'm not ready to give up on Allen after two games against ranked opponents -- one of which will most likely be playing for the national championship at season's end.
For me, the "Allen era" begins this coming Saturday.
Wilson was a total POS when he was here, beginning with his treatment of two RAs the week he was hired. The guy is a drunk who went to bars to hit on younger women. He is married with five kids mind you.
Nobody liked him in the community. Tom Allen may not work out as coach but he is a far better person than Wilson will ever be.
Nobody liked him in the community. Tom Allen may not work out as coach but he is a far better person than Wilson will ever be.
Glass has been a mediocre AD but our athletics performance has improved under his watch. Not enough for me or many others but the improvement is there.
He should have fired Crean in 2011 and hired Stevens, never given Crean a contract extension before the 2012 season based on a friggin' preseason ranking, and at the latest fired Crean in 2014 when Billy Donovan was available. The contract extension given to Wilson made no sense either. The Curt Miller hire was a good one at the time but the guy turned out to be a freak behind the scenes. The jury is out with Moren. She won with Miller's recruits but the team's performance last year was disappointing. The hiring of Todd Yeagley was blatant nepotism.
He should have fired Crean in 2011 and hired Stevens, never given Crean a contract extension before the 2012 season based on a friggin' preseason ranking, and at the latest fired Crean in 2014 when Billy Donovan was available. The contract extension given to Wilson made no sense either. The Curt Miller hire was a good one at the time but the guy turned out to be a freak behind the scenes. The jury is out with Moren. She won with Miller's recruits but the team's performance last year was disappointing. The hiring of Todd Yeagley was blatant nepotism.
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What sport is Curt Miller coaching at IU? Is it a winning program? Maybe I'll go catch a few of their games/matches ...
He isn't coaching at IU. He "resigned" due to "health reasons." He was the women's basketball coach from 2012-2014. He brought in Buss and Cahill.
Glass was on JMV the other day and said that they have raised more money since he has been AD than any other time in IU's history. I think Glass has done a very good job and the sports program is more than just 2 sports as well. Lot of other programs are doing very well and it looks like to me that basketball will be on the way back as well.
Oh! HIM! I had forgotten about him! Thank you for refreshing my memory! I appreciate the help!
Hindsight is 20/20. While I agree that the extension was bad, you kind of paint yourself into a corner when you win the Big Ten outright. Hard to fire coaches on the heels of knocking off the #1 in the country. As much as I disliked Crean's coaching, no AD is going to drop him coming off a Big Ten banner year for Stevens.
I recall when we hired Crean, he was like the 4th choice. Nobody wanted to touch this so called "historic" blue blood with a 10 ft pole.
Donovan didn't even want this place the last go around.
Wilson was trouble from Day #1. The search firm that helped with that should re-compensate IU. That behavior must have been present at Oklahoma and somebody should have done due diligence.
Curt Miller. Yeah - won't touch that one at all. He was justly terminated.
Yeagley? He doesn't dominate the conference like his old man but college soccer has a lot more parity now.
Yes. I'm saying that when he wanted to emphasize defense he could, like before the 2013 Penn State game when we beat them for the first time... but he chose not to do that on a week to week basis. He basically made it clear to us that he wasn't going to do that every week, and he came out then said that to the media. I'm not saying that it was his job to coach that way week to week, to be that involved, but he could've done more to address the amount of negligence that went on, on the defensive side of the ball. As a head coach you have to at least pretend to be more interested. That never really happened, and that's probably why the week after the Penn State game we immediately gave up 42 to MSU. Went back to the same negligence.
I would have preferred to have gone out and gotten a coach with proven success at a lower level like a Fleck or Brohm, but Allen did wonders with our defense last year and wasn't going to stick around for another season with bigger programs interested in his services. Glass made a gamble that Allen could apply his success a defensive coordinator to an entire team. We shall see.
I do hope there weren't financial reasons behind hiring Allen. You can't afford to go cheap when hiring a football or men's basketball coach.
I do hope there weren't financial reasons behind hiring Allen. You can't afford to go cheap when hiring a football or men's basketball coach.
