All good and fair points,Tuttle is kind of a mystery,the bits he has played he has looked pretty good.
Will Ramsey stay?.....
- Thread starter BayernFan
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His statements were 100% accurate. However, I think 5 or 6 of PR's sacks came against OSU, so that needs to be noted. The point is, Penix gets the ball out much quicker than Ramsey. That cannot be denied.
Sounds as if Cronk has just had enough of college football. One would think his pro prospects would be better if he had one successful season at G or C.
I think it can be denied. The one thing you definitely cant compare is arm strength.
I, selfishly, hope Ramsey stays. But I don't think he will and I would wish him the best.
Ramsey played at an HM-All Big 10 level this season. Do I think he overtakes a healthy Penix? No. And I don't think he risks his last year of football "hoping," for lack of a better word, that Penix suffers another injury or is ineffective to the point that he gets to come in again as a starter. If I were him, I'd follow DeBoer to FSU and learn under a tremendous coach who knows how to use him.
I also want to point out that I don't think Penix is as fragile as conventional wisdom might suggest. He took a classic ass-whoopin at MSU this year and battled through the whole game. The ACL last year was flukey, so was the sterno joint this year (or at least it's an uncommon injury). And I think he had a concussion besides, those happen. For better or worse, Penix is getting hurt, but it doesn't seem like he's one of those guys who's dealing with the same nagging injury that never seems to heal.
Ramsey played at an HM-All Big 10 level this season. Do I think he overtakes a healthy Penix? No. And I don't think he risks his last year of football "hoping," for lack of a better word, that Penix suffers another injury or is ineffective to the point that he gets to come in again as a starter. If I were him, I'd follow DeBoer to FSU and learn under a tremendous coach who knows how to use him.
I also want to point out that I don't think Penix is as fragile as conventional wisdom might suggest. He took a classic ass-whoopin at MSU this year and battled through the whole game. The ACL last year was flukey, so was the sterno joint this year (or at least it's an uncommon injury). And I think he had a concussion besides, those happen. For better or worse, Penix is getting hurt, but it doesn't seem like he's one of those guys who's dealing with the same nagging injury that never seems to heal.
Did you see the pass he threw that Fryfogle should have caught at the goal line? That was at least a 60 yard pass on the money.
His arm strength is not an issue. I wish people would quit saying that.
You can criticize him for taking too long to find his receiver. You can criticize him for not having a quick release like Penix.
But come on - the kid can wing it!
BTW, Indiana has the top ten rated QB's returning in college football for 2020[consider Ramsey & Penix a combo]
Did you watch Penix in person? The difference is more noticeable for me in person. The bubble screens where no read is made gets from the center to the QB and to the receiver quicker with Penix. Penix doesn't hesitate on other passes. Hr reads the defense and the ball gets there. As many have noticed, that gives the receiver more room to cut, make a move and at times changes the angle the defender has to use..
Ramsey can throw and move the ball, but he has to think a little more and have a bigger window because the time from his hand to the receiver is not the same as Penix. Defenders have more time to react with Ramsey.
Not sure why there is so much IU fan debate about QB's. Ramsey is now an IU legend based on heart, gritty performance, leadership and loyalty. But he wasn't a 4-star prospect like Penix and Penix has shown legit big time talent that don't feel IU has had or Ramsey offers.
But Don't think there is a Penix fan who doesn't want Ramsey to stay another year if he wants. I sure as heck would. He's earned right to do what he (Ramsey wants) and I believe he's a program guy all in either starting or not. But won't be mad if he left purely to want to play one more year more guaranteed.
Penix is going to be bigger, older, stronger next year. Think he's going to continue to be terrific and improving. And I also think Tuttle would be a very capable back up if Ramsey were to leave.
But there isn't a "one or other" argument I can see in terms of wanting Ramsey back. That's a unanimous yes please, we want you back! Given nature of college football (not Penix can't stay healthy view) Ramsey almost certainly would play next year throughout the season.
But Don't think there is a Penix fan who doesn't want Ramsey to stay another year if he wants. I sure as heck would. He's earned right to do what he (Ramsey wants) and I believe he's a program guy all in either starting or not. But won't be mad if he left purely to want to play one more year more guaranteed.
Penix is going to be bigger, older, stronger next year. Think he's going to continue to be terrific and improving. And I also think Tuttle would be a very capable back up if Ramsey were to leave.
But there isn't a "one or other" argument I can see in terms of wanting Ramsey back. That's a unanimous yes please, we want you back! Given nature of college football (not Penix can't stay healthy view) Ramsey almost certainly would play next year throughout the season.
How far either can throw the ball is not strictly a measure of arm strength. More velocity allows a flatter pass. Remember back to your physics courses with velocity vectors with thrown objects and the effect of gravity. The angle Penix throws a ball 60 yards is much less than the angle Ramsey has to launch a ball to reach the same spot. The longer the pass the greater the delta in time between between the two throws of equal length.
Arm strength is something to consider. Velocity is a better description. The difference doesn't make Ramsey ineffective. It makes Penix more effective. A big plus is that Penix can generate that velocity in a shorter movement. I've seen Penix flip a ball 30+ yards OOB to get rid of the ball by only using his wrist. That alone cuts down on sacks.
I don’t have to see in person to see he has a much stronger arm although I have seen it I’m person. It gets there faster because he has a cannon and Ramsey has a pistol. As far as reads why do you think Ramsey started ahead of him as a freshman and the competition to start is extended so long. It is because Ramsey has a better grasp of the offense and gets his ball out faster. I am not saying that Penixdoesnot read well because he does read very well. So when those bubbles which get on receiver quick it because of arm strength there is no read in most cases..
Ramsey started over the freshman because freshman. But that was changing by the PSU game when Penix went down. I'm 100% convinced Penix would have been the starting QB from that point forward. It's also why no one was surprised when Penix won the job this past fall.
I'm not even talking about AFTER Penix went down. I clearly said, when Penix went down, their stats were almost exactly alike...except for sacks.
Tell me one thing I said that wasn't true.
When Penix went down (for good), in the Northwestern game, AFTER the Northwestern game (after 9 games played, as a team):
Penix was the leading passer in 4 games, Ramsey was the lading passer in 5.
Penix was the leader in games 1, 5, 6, and 9. Ramsey was the leader in games 2,3,4,7, and 8.
At that point (after NW):
Penix 110-160; 1,394 yards; 10 TD; 4 INT; 157.6 rating 1 SACK
Ramsey 113-157; 1.302 yards; 9 TD; 3 INT; 156.7 rating 11 SACKS
They had both clearly taken almost the same number of passing attempts, against a mix of opponents. Their stats were exactly alike.....except for sacks.
So tell me again, what statement did I make that wasn't true?
You totally lost me at "Ramsey has a better grasp of the offense and gets his ball out faster." I think that Penix most certainly gets the ball out faster and there's no way you could quantify who has a better grasp of the offense.
You are wrong also. The sternoclavicular joint connects the sternum, the breastbone, to the clavicle, the collarbone. The shoulder joint is intact. It takes tremendous force to disrupt the sternoclavicular joint because it is relatively immobile. Healing from this repair is iffy. Youth is on Penix's side. Hope Ramsey stays because think he will play more football next year than Penix will.Wow. You were serious.Unreal. He didn’t hurt his clavicle. He hurt the sternoclavicular joint that connects the clavicle to the arm. I can’t believe I’m typing this to you.
His arm strength is absolutely an issue. He can throw the ball deep. He cannot throw the ball with velocity. That is arm strength. Penix can hit throws that Ramsey cannot. I'm not knocking him, it's just a fact.
I'm a huge Ramsey guy, but I doubt he sticks around. This is his last year playing competitive football so I'd think he'd want to be at a place where he's "guaranteed" the job.
Name Tuttle the starter and tell Ramsey and Penix they're pussies if they don't stay and show the coaches are dumbasses.So should we name Ramsey the starter and hope Penix doesn't transfer to Florida State, or name Penix the starter and hope Ramsey doesn't transfer to Florida State?
I am not a Dr. I also didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
I knew it was the sternoclavicular joint, but I didn't know where it was located. I thought it connected the clavicle to the shoulder. We all hope Ramsey stays, but thinking he will play more than Penix is crazy, unless you believe Penix is destined to get hurt again. He can't prove the doubters wrong until he does, but I expect him to start and stay healthy next season. Ramsey had a season ending injury his RS FR year, and then proved to be a warrior these last 2 seasons. I see no reason why Penix can't stay healthy for 13 games next year.
My take:
Ramsey is tough and smart. He has already become an IU poster boy for those traits. Add in loyalty.
No way does he leave IU. He has a state that would elect him mayor, governor, senator, and multiple businesses that would do well to hire him.
I believe he understands the fruits of his labor are to follow. They are here. He will do very very well over the next portion of his life.
Ramsey is tough and smart. He has already become an IU poster boy for those traits. Add in loyalty.
No way does he leave IU. He has a state that would elect him mayor, governor, senator, and multiple businesses that would do well to hire him.
I believe he understands the fruits of his labor are to follow. They are here. He will do very very well over the next portion of his life.
So when Ramsey passed for the most yardage In games 2, 3, and 4....the Oline already was down?
They got healthy by game 5 and 6 when Penix came back, then were hurt again by 7 and 8 when Peyton lead?
By game 9 they were good again?
Because the actual stats of who played when don't support his hypothesis.
He likes Ramsey so I guess he's purposely making false statements when his analysis has no basis, and is actually pretty fairly refuted.
If there's any mitigation for the difference in sacks, it's "Ramsey played against OSU"...that's it.
Even then, in equal PT....Penix was sacked only once. That's actually factual.
Are you kidding me Penix played against one actual solid defense and that was MSU. Meanwhile Ramsey played against OSU, PSU and Michigan and even Northwestern which had a decent defense and a terrible offense. Nebraska would have been the second best defense that Penix would have played against but did not.
The discussion is about sacks. Or, at least was, until you tried to introduce some other stat to support your narrative. Ramsey passed for 162 yards in game 3 - not sure what you're talking about.
One thing you can't refute is that the OLine when Ramsey played was not the same OLine that started the year. And if you think the OLine protected Ramsey well against Nebraska, Michigan, and Tennessee, you're watching different games than I did.
It's really kind of a joke that anyone compares Ramsey and Penis in terms of sacks when Ramsey played against far better competition. Everyone who uses that argument conveniently leaves that part out.
But just to review:
BSU - Penix 326 yards, 1 TD (0 sacks)
EIU - Ramsey 226 yards 2TDs (0 sacks); Penix 197, 2TDs (0 sacks)
O$U - Ramsey 162 yards, 0TDs (5 sacks)
UCONN - Ramsey 247 yards, 3TDs (1 sack)
MSU - Penix 286 yards, 3TDs (1 sack)
Rutgers - Penix 282 yards, 3TDs (0 sacks); Ramsey 15 yards, 0TDS (0 sacks)
Maryland - Penix 193 yards, 1TD; (0 sacks); Ramsey 141, 1TD (1 sack)
Nebraska - Ramsey 351, 2TDs (2 sacks)
Northwestern - Penix - 162 yards, 0TDs; Ramsey 108, 1TD (2 sacks)
PSU - Ramsey 371, 1TD (2 sacks)
Michigan - Ramsey 217 yards, 0TD (3 sacks)
Purdue - 337 yards, 3TDs (5 sacks)
Tennessee - 227 yards, 0TDs (4 sacks)
So, 9 sacks in the last 2 games. 12 sacks in the last 3.
Please explain why anyone would think the OLine improved during the year. I'm not seeing it.
Yeah, but you just like Ramsey. Facts be damned. At least according to Matt.
I do like Ramsey but Penix is better. You are right about someone else must be playing with a concussion.
The discussion isn't about who is better. The statement was made that the OL improved as the year went on and that's just laughable.
No. The argument and stats show that after 9 games, with equal attempts, in random appearances but still the same amount of attempts, Penix was sacked once, Ramsey was sacked 11 times.
I never said anything about the quality of the offensive line as the season progressed, because Ramsey actually played more in the early season. They both played fairly equally through the first nine games. In fact, Penix was the leading passer in the last game of the comparison...so how did he benefit from a better line?
I do believe the o line got better. So did the schedule. You can’t simply look at sacks or any other stats to just an offensive line performance. You have to look at each offensive lineman individually. Then you have to look to see if they jelled as a unit.
I really hate when people would tell me my guys played poorly then you watch film and you see that it was a running back that that missed his block or missed the hole. Or we could not run the ball because there were too many folks to block because we could not throw the ball. Sometimes the play caller had a bad game. Sometimes we as coaches just have bad game plan. One time we getting ready to play St Thomas and they had this big kid who we thought was big and stiff and not very athletic. We decided we were going to run at him. That guy was Geno Atkins. I don’t we were looking at but he was having none that. By the way I believe Geno is sill playing in the league.
My point is stats can be deceiving when evaluating offensive line play.
Funny.
You're the one that still can't comprehend that the Michigan, Penn State, and Purdue games have nothing to do with this comparison.
Take a stab, Grandpa. Tell me how Penix benefited from a better line than Ramsey through the first 9 games of the season.
You responded to my post, which was in response to other posts about the OLine. It wasn't a Penix vs Ramsey argument, as much as you'd like to put words in my mouth.
But if you can't recognize the quality of opponents Ramsey faced vs. who Penix faced, then there's no hope for your understanding.
No need to stop to the Purdue level name nonsense because you don't like the kid.
Poor effort.
Tell me, through the first nine games when Penix went out, who played harder defenses specifically, and why?
??? Did you respond to the wrong post?
What 'name nonsense' are you talking about?
Do your own research. It's patently obvious Peyton played tougher teams.
If nothing else, check Win/Loss records.
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