Why would you wanna play at Indiana?

Aloha Hoosier

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When he was winning titles he had multiple all Americans on his teams. Like a Duke or North Carolina of today. He wasn’t winning with a bunch of 3 star players. I was very close to the program at that time.

His results faded with time because he couldn’t recruit like he did in the 70s and 80s. The biggest myth among young people is that Knight won with average recruits.
I'm not that young since I attended IU from '79 to '83. Of course he had great talent on many of his teams, but he didn't have the best talent on his teams. In '75 (a year they should have won the championship) and '76, I'd say he had one of the most talented teams in the country. In '81 he also had some great talent, but not the best overall, and it was an amazing coaching job to take that 9 loss team to a championship. '87 was talented, but not the most talented. All of his teams had some contributors that would have been rated three stars if they rated them that way. Many became All Americans because Knight coached them to become All Americans. Bottom line is that many other teams had players in most, if not all, of Knight's years that had longer and better NBA careers, but Knight won with his players. Then you look at the Military Academy and Texas Tech years and he over achieved with his players nearly every year.

Edit: to change Navy to Military Academy. Brain fart because I was Navy.
 
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fpeaugh

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I'm not that young since I attended IU from '79 to '83. Of course he had great talent on many of his teams, but he didn't have the best talent on his teams. In '75 (a year they should have won the championship) and '76, I'd say he had one of the most talented teams in the country. In '81 he also had some great talent, but not the best overall, and it was an amazing coaching job to take that 9 loss team to a championship. '87 was talented, but not the most talented. All of his teams had some contributors that would have been rated three stars if they rated them that way. Many became All Americans because Knight coached them to become All Americans. Bottom line is that many other teams had players in most, if not all, of Knight's years that had longer and better NBA careers, but Knight won with his players. Then you look at the Navy and Texas Tech years and he over achieved with his players nearly every year.
I never said he wasn’t a great coach. Of course he was. But coaches don’t win championships without elite talent. I don’t care how good you are. It takes coaching AND players. Players being more important than coaching.
 
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Birnk403

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I'm not that young since I attended IU from '79 to '83. Of course he had great talent on many of his teams, but he didn't have the best talent on his teams. In '75 (a year they should have won the championship) and '76, I'd say he had one of the most talented teams in the country. In '81 he also had some great talent, but not the best overall, and it was an amazing coaching job to take that 9 loss team to a championship. '87 was talented, but not the most talented. All of his teams had some contributors that would have been rated three stars if they rated them that way. Many became All Americans because Knight coached them to become All Americans. Bottom line is that many other teams had players in most, if not all, of Knight's years that had longer and better NBA careers, but Knight won with his players. Then you look at the Navy and Texas Tech years and he over achieved with his players nearly every year.
Who had more talent in 1975, 1976, or 1981? And Knight coached at West Point, not the Naval Academy.
 
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Aloha Hoosier

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I never said he wasn’t a great coach. Of course he was. But coaches don’t win championships without elite talent. I don’t care how good you are. It takes coaching AND players. Players being more important than coaching.
Players aren't more important than coaching. Coaching is most important, but the coach does need talented players that fit the way he wants them to play. Miller has gotten 5 and 4 star recruits and there is no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. He can coach. We'll see the rest of this year and next year (minimum) what he can do with his players.
 

Al Bino

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I never said he wasn’t a great coach. Of course he was. But coaches don’t win championships without elite talent. I don’t care how good you are. It takes coaching AND players. Players being more important than coaching.
I guess it depends on how you define "elite talent".

I would think one definition is how the player does in the NBA. How many players not named Isiah Thomas had long all star NBA careers?
 
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Birnk403

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I guess it depends on how you define "elite talent".

I would think one definition is how the player does in the NBA. How many players not named Isiah Thomas had long all star NBA careers?
Would another be Big 10 MVP’s and all Big 10 players? You might check that out.
 

trailrunner

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fpeaugh said:





I’m objective. I can be a fan yet still see reality. I don’t know why that’s so hard for some fans.
I think you are confusing being objective with standing strong for your opinions. Objective people earn credibility by identifying both positive and negative observations with supporting reasons. They also adjust their positions as new information presents itself. You continue to add to your track record of being wrong without pause. To me, you are reckless, and you are as objective as those who believe Archie Miller is going to win a national championship this year.
[/quote]
No one believes this coaching staff will win a title. They will be happy if we make the tournament.
 
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Aloha Hoosier

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1989 Big Ten Champions, Illinois and Michigan much more talented
Of course. It’s silly to claim IU or any other team to win the NCAA championship did it because of talent alone. That has rarely happened, The winning coaches would say it has never happened, ;)
 

fpeaugh

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I guess it depends on how you define "elite talent".

I would think one definition is how the player does in the NBA. How many players not named Isiah Thomas had long all star NBA careers?
You must be a millennial to not know Knight had dozens of players drafted not named Thomas.
 

fpeaugh

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Players aren't more important than coaching. Coaching is most important, but the coach does need talented players that fit the way he wants them to play. Miller has gotten 5 and 4 star recruits and there is no reason to believe he won't continue to do so. He can coach. We'll see the rest of this year and next year (minimum) what he can do with his players.
UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas aren’t repeatedly making Final Fours and winning titles because their coaches out scheme everyone. It’s because they have the best players. Great coaches know their main responsibility is to get the best players. Wake up kid.
 
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82hoosier

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Knight did not change.
The kids did.
The shot clock changed. The 3-point line was introduced. Dominating players were only staying for a couple of years rather than 4 or 5 years. So basically everything changed.
 

Krafty97grad

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And both of those teams went to the final four, with UM winning, something IU was never going to do. Those teams were better than us.
Yes, but it was in response to your comment of when Knight had coached a team with less talent and won either a conference or NCAA title. Michigan and Illinois were loaded but Indiana won the conference and lost to runner-up seton hall in the tournament. Sum was most definitely greater than the parts. Same in 82-83. Not nearly the talent of the 70’s early 80s IU teams.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas aren’t repeatedly making Final Fours and winning titles because their coaches out scheme everyone. It’s because they have the best players. Great coaches know their main responsibility is to get the best players. Wake up kid.
Stop with the “wake up kid” BS. You might be ancient (I’m 58, by the way), but that doesn’t mean you’re wise. You’re not wise at all. It’s obvious that you are among our least wise posters. I have you ranked in the top two, so at least you have that going for you, which is nice.
 

Al Bino

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You must be a millennial to not know Knight had dozens of players drafted not named Thomas.
WTF is wrong with you?

Good grief. Did I say ANYTHING about being drafted?

Maybe you should re-read my post two or three times out loud to yourself and go slow the first time. Maybe then you will understand what I said and not attempt to put words in my mouth.
 
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Aloha Hoosier

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WTF is wrong with you?

Good grief. Did I say ANYTHING about being drafted?

Maybe you should re-read my post two or three times out loud to yourself and go slow the first time. Maybe then you will understand what I said and not attempt to put words in my mouth.
I think the old geezer is in serious decline. I’m starting to pity him.
 
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Birnk403

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Yes, but it was in response to your comment of when Knight had coached a team with less talent and won either a conference or NCAA title. Michigan and Illinois were loaded but Indiana won the conference and lost to runner-up seton hall in the tournament. Sum was most definitely greater than the parts. Same in 82-83. Not nearly the talent of the 70’s early 80s IU teams.
But you’re talking about the rarities, not what was typical. And in 82-83, Kitchell’s back injury changed that dynamic. The point was dispelling the myth that Knight’s teams weren’t as talented as their competition using those years, and that’s been done. They were plenty talented, as those of us who saw them know.
 

fpeaugh

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WTF is wrong with you?

Good grief. Did I say ANYTHING about being drafted?

Maybe you should re-read my post two or three times out loud to yourself and go slow the first time. Maybe then you will understand what I said and not attempt to put words in my mouth.
Knight had dozens of NBA players kid. You might need to do more research.
 
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Al Bino

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Knight had dozens of NBA players kid. You might need to do more research.
Please quote where I said anything to the contrary.

This is what I posted, just so you don't have to go back and look

"I guess it depends on how you define "elite talent".

I would think one definition is how the player does in the NBA. How many players not named Isiah Thomas had long all star NBA careers?"

I said NOTHING about the draft, I said NOTHING about how many NBA players he had and you have as yet posted nothing to answer my question.

And, by the way, I bet I am as old if not older than you but senility hasn't affected me yet as it has you.
 

Krafty97grad

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But you’re talking about the rarities, not what was typical. And in 82-83, Kitchell’s back injury changed that dynamic. The point was dispelling the myth that Knight’s teams weren’t as talented as their competition using those years, and that’s been done. They were plenty talented, as those of us who saw them know.
In fairness, you spoke in absolutes, so I shouldn’t be criticized for rarities:)

I agree, Knight didn’t win titles with limited talent 3 star players
 
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Of course, champ. Where you want to be is often defined by where you’ve been, and what you have must always be evaluated in the context of “possibility” (both positive and negative). None of that changes the basic tenant that growth and maturity are positive benefits of the journey, and Knight’s inability to cultivate those two characteristics in himself prematurely ended his time at IU and set back the basketball program. Not a happy result, but entirely predictable.
tenet
 

fpeaugh

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Please quote where I said anything to the contrary.

This is what I posted, just so you don't have to go back and look

"I guess it depends on how you define "elite talent".

I would think one definition is how the player does in the NBA. How many players not named Isiah Thomas had long all star NBA careers?"

I said NOTHING about the draft, I said NOTHING about how many NBA players he had and you have as yet posted nothing to answer my question.

And, by the way, I bet I am as old if not older than you but senility hasn't affected me yet as it has you.
You’re just blinded by your delusions. Whether a guy is a NBA Hall of Famer or not has nothing to do with college talent. Get with it kid or let the adults discuss things.
 

Al Bino

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You’re just blinded by your delusions. Whether a guy is a NBA Hall of Famer or not has nothing to do with college talent. Get with it kid or let the adults discuss things.
No delusions what so ever. YOU are the one that said "But coaches don’t win championships without elite talent.".

I merely stated that I can remember only one of his players reached elite status in the Pros. I said NOTHING about the hall of fame.

You keep adding things that I didn't say. Of course it just goes along with you being full of shit and almost never backing up any of your claims.
 

fpeaugh

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No delusions what so ever. YOU are the one that said "But coaches don’t win championships without elite talent.".

I merely stated that I can remember only one of his players reached elite status in the Pros. I said NOTHING about the hall of fame.

You keep adding things that I didn't say. Of course it just goes along with you being full of shit and almost never backing up any of your claims.
If you don’t think being named an all American in college makes you elite then I can’t help you son.
 

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