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Why is Trump against voting by mail?

I suppose per Trump logic my dad's vote in 1944 should not have counted because he was stationed in Italy during WWII and voted by absentee ballot.
 
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Signature verification devices are permissible under Colorado law. Not all countries use them.

And it does not look like Denver uses them, from your link:

Ballots are run through the Bell and Howell Elevate Criterion which date and time stamps the ballot, removes the secrecy tab with a laser, compares the barcode on the envelope to data from State of Colorado’s SCORE voter registration database, and captures the signature image of all eligible voters’ signatures. Ballots returned from other counties, or voters who are ineligible to participate, are sorted and processed by a bipartisan team. Voters who are eligible have their signatures reviewed by bipartisan election judges. If the signature matches, the ballot is accepted and the voter’s SCORE record is updated to show that a ballot was verified. If the signature does not match, a bipartisan team of two election workers compare signatures. The ballots are run through the Bell and Howell Elevate Criterion once more and sorted by accepted ballots and rejected ballots. Accepted ballots are sent to the Ballot Preparation Room and voters with rejected ballots due to non-matching or missing signatures are sent a letter asking them to submit a Signature Affidavit Form. The voter must also submit a copy of an approved identification with the Signature Affidavit Form.​

So there is no Colorado magic, it comes down to humans looking at signatures and that is something every state can easily do.
 
And it does not look like Denver uses them, from your link:

Ballots are run through the Bell and Howell Elevate Criterion which date and time stamps the ballot, removes the secrecy tab with a laser, compares the barcode on the envelope to data from State of Colorado’s SCORE voter registration database, and captures the signature image of all eligible voters’ signatures. Ballots returned from other counties, or voters who are ineligible to participate, are sorted and processed by a bipartisan team. Voters who are eligible have their signatures reviewed by bipartisan election judges. If the signature matches, the ballot is accepted and the voter’s SCORE record is updated to show that a ballot was verified. If the signature does not match, a bipartisan team of two election workers compare signatures. The ballots are run through the Bell and Howell Elevate Criterion once more and sorted by accepted ballots and rejected ballots. Accepted ballots are sent to the Ballot Preparation Room and voters with rejected ballots due to non-matching or missing signatures are sent a letter asking them to submit a Signature Affidavit Form. The voter must also submit a copy of an approved identification with the Signature Affidavit Form.​

So there is no Colorado magic, it comes down to humans looking at signatures and that is something every state can easily do.

Sigh. I’m not talking about Colorado magic. I’m talking about a secure vote by mail system. If you read what Trump said yesterday, he was mostly complaining about problems that Colorado has by in large solved. Signature verification is only a part of the mail ballot protocol.
 
Sigh. I’m not talking about Colorado magic. I’m talking about a secure vote by mail system. If you read what Trump said yesterday, he was mostly complaining about problems that Colorado has by in large solved. Signature verification is only a part of the mail ballot protocol.
Sounds to me like you're full of it on this one. You're trying to create a distinction out of thin air so you can simultaneously defend both Trump and Colorado.
 
Sounds to me like you're full of it on this one. You're trying to create a distinction out of thin air so you can simultaneously defend both Trump and Colorado.

I knew you’d get to the “I’m full of it” point sooner or later. You are so predictable.

Let me write in Crayons for you: Trump is wrong about vote by mail, he is correct about using California as a bad example.
 
I knew you’d get to the “I’m full of it” point sooner or later. You are so predictable.
Maybe you're the one who is predictable.

First you say Colorado's signature verification is more robust. How? Algorithms! Oh, but they don't actually use them? Oh, it's more robust because they are allowed to use them. Well, it sure looks like signature verification in Colorado is actually the same as every other state - some human sitting there comparing signatures. Oh, but what you really meant was that Colorado's "system" is just overall better.

Truth is, I suspect you don't even know how Colorado's system works. You just know you like it, and you know you like Trump, so you decided that Colorado's system must somehow be different than, say, California's, without any justification whatsoever.

I was genuinely interested in hearing why Colorado was better. I was never aiming for "You're full of it." The reason I ended up at "You're full of it" is because you are, in fact, full of it.
 
I think the Colorado mail system is more secure than signing a voter book at the polls. As I said, the Colorado system operates like a voter ID system but even better than that.

Edit: When I vote, I get three emails. One that my ballot is in the mail to me. Second that my returned ballot has been received. And third that my ballot was accepted and counted. I don’t know how the system works if you don’t have an email address. The signature verification works by algorithms. My signature deteriorated over the years. I’m very careful with it and I haven’t had a ballot rejected yet.

If no email or you don't sign up for email notifications, you can go to the state's website to check the status of your ballot. I don't know if or how it's different from other states but it is efficient and you're given ample time to vote. I also live next to a library with a ballot box so that makes it even easier.
 
Relevant article..

The organization, which calls itself the Honest Elections Project, seemed to emerge out of nowhere a few months ago and started stoking fears about voter fraud. Backed by a dark money group funded by rightwing stalwarts like the Koch brothers and Betsy DeVos’ family, the Honest Elections Project is part of the network that pushed the US supreme court picks Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch, and is quickly becoming a juggernaut in the escalating fight over voting rights.

“This is a small community that is really trying to push forward these more suppressive tactics that will be challenged in court and having those judges on the bench, they’re really hoping it’s going to continue to rig the system in their favor,” said Lena Zwarensteyn, who closely follows judicial nominations at the Leadership Conference. “By changing the rules of the game and who the referees are, they’re trying to change the landscape.”

Neither the Honest Elections Project nor the Judicial Crisis Network responded to requests for an interview.

The Honest Elections Project has become active as Republicans are scaling up their efforts to fight to keep voting restrictions in place ahead of the election. The Republican National Committee will spend at least $20m on litigation over voting rights and wants to recruit up to 50,000 people to help monitor the polls and other election activities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-conservative-voting-restrictions#maincontent
 
I have the feeling that when it is easier to vote then more Democrats will vote.

The Trump and Republicans probably share my thoughts. The rationale for not making easier is of course preventing voter fraud.

The pandemic could very well be a step in the direction of more voting by mail with electronic voting just around the corner.

Electronic may not be the right word.
 
I have the feeling that when it is easier to vote then more Democrats will vote.

The Trump and Republicans probably share my thoughts. The rationale for not making easier is of course preventing voter fraud.

The pandemic could very well be a step in the direction of more voting by mail with electronic voting just around the corner.

Electronic may not be the right word.

I think voter enthusiasm is more important than making voting easier. There is so much bitching and moaning about government from all quarters that it isn't surprising voter turnout is so easily discouraged by mild requirements--which some people call suppression.
 
I think voter enthusiasm is more important than making voting easier. There is so much bitching and moaning about government from all quarters that it isn't surprising voter turnout is so easily discouraged by mild requirements--which some people call suppression.

For people who work hourly and rely on something other than a personal car, the requirements can be very annoying and that is long before we get to areas that have a several hour wait to vote.
 
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For people who work hourly and rely on something other than a personal car, the requirements can be very annoying and that is long before we get to areas that have a several hour wait to vote.

Early voting addresses a lot of that. Vote centers can be open longer hours.
 
I suppose per Trump logic my dad's vote in 1944 should not have counted because he was stationed in Italy during WWII and voted by absentee ballot.
False - most states - Indiana for certain - have separate sections of their law dealing with military voting by mail. Overseas personnel have different deadlines. I voted absentee by mail from southern Turkey. No one advocates changing that.
 
Early voting addresses a lot of that. Vote centers can be open longer hours.

We have done a lot to help whites. From Pew (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/resear...oting-lines-are-shorter-but-mostly-for-whites)

In the 2016 presidential election, black voters, on average, waited 16 minutes to vote, while Latino voters waited 13 minutes, according to a Massachusetts Institute of Technology survey of voters. In the same election, white voters waited 10 minutes. In 2012, black and Latino voters stood in line for more than 20 minutes to cast their ballot, nearly twice as long as white voters.​
 
I think voter enthusiasm is more important than making voting easier. There is so much bitching and moaning about government from all quarters that it isn't surprising voter turnout is so easily discouraged by mild requirements--which some people call suppression.

Pretty much agree, except for "enthusiasm" being the reason Reublicans turn out more reliably than Democrats from election to election.

Enthusiasm to me has more to do with voters feeling a special need to vote. This varies from election to election.

The reliability to never miss an election (which I contend more Republicans have) has more to do with a strong sense of belonging. I think the Trump base has this sense of belonging, but only time will tell.

The complaints about government in my view also works in favor of Republicans as their candidates rail against big government. Democrats on the other hand aren't as concerned about big government.
 
False - most states - Indiana for certain - have separate sections of their law dealing with military voting by mail. Overseas personnel have different deadlines. I voted absentee by mail from southern Turkey. No one advocates changing that.

FYI these are the exceptions allowed for absentee voting in Indiana (I look for it to get changed soon by our good old Indiana legislature due to lap dog loyalty to Trump), it's pretty easy to qualify:

In order to vote absentee-by-mail in the November 3, 2020 election, one of the following must apply (No reason is required to be marked or included when applying for a vote-by-mail ballot in the June 2, 2020, primary election pursuant to IEC Order 2020-37):
  1. You have a specific, reasonable expectation that you will be absent from the county on Election Day during the entire 12 hours that the polls are open (6 am until 6 pm).
  2. You have a disability.
  3. You are at least 65 years of age.
  4. You will have official election duties outside of your voting precinct.
  5. You are scheduled to work at your regular place of employment during the entire 12 hours that the polls are open.
  6. You will be confined due to illness or injury or you will be caring for an individual confined due to illness or injury during the entire 12 hours that the polls are open.
  7. You are prevented from voting because of a religious discipline or religious holiday during the entire 12 hours that the polls are open.
  8. You are a participant in the state's address confidentiality program.
  9. You are a member of the military or a public safety officer.
  10. You are a "serious sex offender" as defined in Indiana Code 35-42-4-14(a).
  11. You are prevented from voting due to the unavailability of transportation to the polls.
BTW, if you want to obtain an absentee ballot the application is toward the bottom of the page linked:

https://www.in.gov/sos/elections/2402.htm

ABS-MAIL: Application for Absentee Ballot by Mail Only | En Español
 
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Maybe you're the one who is predictable.

First you say Colorado's signature verification is more robust. How? Algorithms! Oh, but they don't actually use them? Oh, it's more robust because they are allowed to use them. Well, it sure looks like signature verification in Colorado is actually the same as every other state - some human sitting there comparing signatures. Oh, but what you really meant was that Colorado's "system" is just overall better.

Truth is, I suspect you don't even know how Colorado's system works. You just know you like it, and you know you like Trump, so you decided that Colorado's system must somehow be different than, say, California's, without any justification whatsoever.

I was genuinely interested in hearing why Colorado was better. I was never aiming for "You're full of it." The reason I ended up at "You're full of it" is because you are, in fact, full of it.

I don’t know WTF your problem is. This seems pretty robust to me and it is typical. As i said, each county is different. Jackson county has about 1400 people in the whole county. Its system will be different.

And this is a pretty robust regulatory framework.
 
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The message isn't hypocritical. It's been extremely consistent. Only the "right" kind of people can be trusted to vote by mail, everyone else is probably a liberal saboteur.
And Trump is bravely risking his reputation almost daily to make this point.

Today, Trump personally traveled to Florida to watch the aborted SpaceX launch and has already made plans to return to Florida on May 30 to watch the rescheduled launch.

https://www.space.com/trump-spacex-astronaut-launch-arrival-demo-2.html

Nonetheless, Trump doesn't waste time traveling to Florida to vote but uses a mail-in absentee ballot to show that he can vote by mail without committing fraud.

Too bad Presidents Trump considers to be his lessers have to vote in person.
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The Texas Supreme Court voted against them are being an automatic mail on ballot. But it decided each individual can decide if their individual condition allows them to request a mail in ballot. The state cannot require them to prove they have a condition.

Like the Wisconsin Supreme Court, these hearings were virtual..

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/0...fgvV6idtlYcHuob6IuSO2y81qM43-MMjHtfjHHmDtlLcI
The idea that each voter can assess his or her own disability with no requirement to disclose details may be just the loophole that is needed.
 
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The idea that each voter can assess his or her own disability with no requirement to disclose details may be just the loophole that is needed.

I agree but I cannot wait to see how Texas tries to circumvent that. It rests on people knowing they do not have to disclose, which I suspect will be used somehow.
 
Do you know what areas in Indy?

The story in the Indy Star said Broad Ripple and Warren Central. Another story said St Thomas Aquinas school.

A big part of the problem was they consolidated precincts because it is difficult to get the average 70 year old election worker to work in a pandemic. I suspect that problem will exist in the fall, but even worse. The number of 70 year olds willing to work won't be greater, but the number of voters will be a lot greater. From the article:

At this point, it's hard to say whether turnout was high or whether the lines were a result of the state's largest county only mustering enough volunteers to operate 22 voting places. Or both.

Some of the suburbs, especially in Hamilton County, reported much shorter lines. In Carmel and Fishers, voting seemed to be measured in minutes, not hours.​

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ests-find-long-lines-election-day/3125569001/
 
The story in the Indy Star said Broad Ripple and Warren Central. Another story said St Thomas Aquinas school.

A big part of the problem was they consolidated precincts because it is difficult to get the average 70 year old election worker to work in a pandemic. I suspect that problem will exist in the fall, but even worse. The number of 70 year olds willing to work won't be greater, but the number of voters will be a lot greater. From the article:

At this point, it's hard to say whether turnout was high or whether the lines were a result of the state's largest county only mustering enough volunteers to operate 22 voting places. Or both.

Some of the suburbs, especially in Hamilton County, reported much shorter lines. In Carmel and Fishers, voting seemed to be measured in minutes, not hours.​

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...ests-find-long-lines-election-day/3125569001/
Thanks for the info.
We had younger workers this time and no line at all.
 
Why is Trump against voting by mail? He wants women to vote too;)
 
That is great. I first worked an election in 1978 as an 18 year old and most years since. There were many times even the me of today would have been the youngest one at the site. I hope younger people take up the interest.
All the precincts in the NW part of the county were consolidated to Edgewood High School. I got there mid-morning; the parking lot wasn't full, but there were a lot of cars. But there was no line to check in at all, and the 70 y.o. and 20 y.o. that gave me my ballot did it quickly and efficiently. I was in and out of there in ten, maybe fifteen minutes tops.

I've been extremely impressed with how Monroe Co. has handled elections for the last several cycles. Nicole Whatshername is doing a splendid job. I also think the way voting actually is done and tabulated here should be the national standard -- paper ballots, scanned into the machine for tabulation. Any concerns, the paper backup is built into the process.
 
All the precincts in the NW part of the county were consolidated to Edgewood High School. I got there mid-morning; the parking lot wasn't full, but there were a lot of cars. But there was no line to check in at all, and the 70 y.o. and 20 y.o. that gave me my ballot did it quickly and efficiently. I was in and out of there in ten, maybe fifteen minutes tops.

I've been extremely impressed with how Monroe Co. has handled elections for the last several cycles. Nicole Whatshername is doing a splendid job. I also think the way voting actually is done and tabulated here should be the national standard -- paper ballots, scanned into the machine for tabulation. Any concerns, the paper backup is built into the process.

I do not know about Ellettesville, but Bloomington seemed to have a huge number of mail voting.

But turnout will be higher in the fall, it could be a real problem if there is not mail voting. I have used the voting center and had to wait in lines.
 
But turnout will be higher in the fall, it could be a real problem if there is not mail voting. I have used the voting center and had to wait in lines.
I went by the voting center on a couple Saturdays and drove on by. It looked crowded. Nothing like in '16, of course. Then, the lines at the voting center were yuuuge. I went on election day to the Catholic church in Ellettsville, and it was slammed too. Took me about two hours.
 
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