Obviously, Idaho was a scrimmage. Against Iowa, the offensive line was awful. They've taken a step backward from last year. What's the real issue here? Why does Tom Allen continue to accept mediocrity from this area of the game?
Why Doesn't Our Offensive Line Improve?
- Thread starter IUFan4Lifer
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1) The Iowa game was blamed on position shifting when Haggard got hurt. I'm not sure how much I believe that because I wasn't thoroughly impressed with their blocking against Idaho. I distinctly remember some early plays where Bedford got out to get a LB and whiffed on blocks, almost seemed lost at times.
2) I have to assume it's coaching. For example, I was more impressed with Bedford as a true freshman starting LT after Cronk went down than I was with him as a sophomore RT or in the limited sample size for this year.
3) If it is coaching, I don't know why CTA is hesitant to make a change. He strikes me as more conservative with his staff than others are, case in point keeping Debord for a year 2 after some seriously questionable offensive playcalling that stunted the team.
2) I have to assume it's coaching. For example, I was more impressed with Bedford as a true freshman starting LT after Cronk went down than I was with him as a sophomore RT or in the limited sample size for this year.
3) If it is coaching, I don't know why CTA is hesitant to make a change. He strikes me as more conservative with his staff than others are, case in point keeping Debord for a year 2 after some seriously questionable offensive playcalling that stunted the team.
If the OL issue was just this year we would wonder want is happening but the OL for IU has been in the very low in B1G since coach Hiller has been here. If coach Allen is really pushing to win the B1G he may have some tough decision to make at the end of this season. We need to wait until the season is over but right now I have very concerns about two offensives coaches [OC and OL] and they must be changed after this year if things don't improve this season for IU to really have chance to win the B1G.
The reason our offensive line doesn't improve
Your 2nd point about Bedford is exactly what I have been thinking... he is the perfect example of someone whose play seems to have regressed from when they started... I'm not sure how that could be anything but poor coaching.
In Bedfords defense (as a Guard against Idaho) that was the first time he's ever played Guard...
He did regress last year as a T but he was flipped from LT to RT, so perhaps that was the problem...
Our OL will get its 2nd true Stress Test this Saturday... Here's hoping they pass it...
It’s all recruiting. Much easier for us to pull good skill players than it is linemen. The big schools eat up most of the best ones and there just isn’t the volume there is on the skill positions. Especially OL. I don’t think Allen is accepting anything. Just have to keep winning and up our game in recruiting.
Hiller just isn’t getting anything done. With an entire year to prepare a line with experience. This shows you that its not always about weight lifting. Somebody needs to step up as a leader on that line.
We'll have to see how this year plays out but my 14 game take on Sheridan is that he's in over his head. The O-Line is a huge problem, but the entire operation executes pretty poorly, so there is plenty of blame to go around. Hopefully they turn it around, but I am expected us to get completely shut down this weekend against a good defense. Our best chance to score may be on special teams and defense.
It is funny Hiller has coached for 27 years. If the guy is that bad how does he keep getting jobs?
Next you are telling me that Bedford was better as a freshman? So Hiller forgot how to coach after that? There is no way you are telling me he came in as a polished offensive lineman from high school. I do wonder if he is left handed though because he is better on the left side than he is on the right. I still even though the left side is not Penix blind side I would put him at left tackle and Jones at left guard. As for Bedford missing linebackers did not see that. Not saying it did not happen but not sure how frequently he was responsible for backer in an even front.
As far as our experienced line we replaced two starters. We do not have a lot of experience playing together as a unit. We used a lot of different combinations last year already used two this year.
Next you are telling me that Bedford was better as a freshman? So Hiller forgot how to coach after that? There is no way you are telling me he came in as a polished offensive lineman from high school. I do wonder if he is left handed though because he is better on the left side than he is on the right. I still even though the left side is not Penix blind side I would put him at left tackle and Jones at left guard. As for Bedford missing linebackers did not see that. Not saying it did not happen but not sure how frequently he was responsible for backer in an even front.
As far as our experienced line we replaced two starters. We do not have a lot of experience playing together as a unit. We used a lot of different combinations last year already used two this year.
it's still early, but if the offence hasn't improved drastically by the end of the year coach allen needs to make some changes. 2 coaches in particular. i think dolson has shown the willingness to open up the check book. let's hope he doesn't have to. but i'm not overly optimistic these guys can get the job done. like i said it's still early.
if you look at this subject in a general sense, there are three possibilities.
1, The Players aren't talented enough to play at this level.
2. The players aren't Coachable. There are no consequences for poor play so they don't have to improve in order to play, or they have quit listening to the position Coaches.
3, The coaches can'r relate to the players and approach them in a way that encourages them to learn and adapt to change.
1, The Players aren't talented enough to play at this level.
2. The players aren't Coachable. There are no consequences for poor play so they don't have to improve in order to play, or they have quit listening to the position Coaches.
3, The coaches can'r relate to the players and approach them in a way that encourages them to learn and adapt to change.
I think that has almost always been the case. That is why Mallory had better success in the late 1980s when he recruited JC linemen Ian Beckles and Eric Moore. I don't see us doing much of that any more.
Hiller has shown an inability to develop individual offensive linemen into high caliber or even average big ten linemen. Caleb Jones and Matt Bedford have regressed or at best stayed the same since 2019. Our starting left tackle got beat one on one against an FCS player. Simply put FCS starters are normally about as talented as power five third stringers, you get maybe one anomaly per team, for Idaho that's Hayden Hatten, point being our starters should not get best against Idaho unless it's some well executed stunt/blitz, they should certainly not get beat just going one on one.
As a unit, I think someone mentioned this already, but there doesn't seem to be much cohesion, our guys don't seem to flow. I didn't see a lack of cohesion as much in the pass against Idaho, but that's probably because they went one on one a lot, and their stunts were horribly executed compared to our first opponent, hopefully it's also a sign of progress for this O-line, but the difference between Idaho and Iowa talent wise is massive. The run game is more what frustrated me against Idaho, our O-line as a whole looked like they were only slightly outmatching Idaho, someone on the Vandals defensive front would always getting penetration, and it was not often our runners got further than the LOS without someone getting a hand on them. I have higher expectations than that when you are playing an FBS team. When Indiana plays Idaho, our O-line should look like Ohio State's O-line did last year in developing wholes against our D-line. There would be times OSU would get such a push, Indiana wouldn't have a guy touch Master Teague or Trey Sermon for four-five yards.
I honestly wish IU played a team like Nebraska or Illinois this week. That would be the true tell, if our O-line could match up against them, I would be pleasantly surprised, I feel like they wouldn't, but that's just speculation. We go from playing a top 10 team and our O-line got throttled, to playing an FCS team and our O-line won the LOS, but in unimpressive fashion, to playing another top 10 team(though their talent level is more like a mid tier B1G team), then a GO5 team, then ANOTHER top 10-15 team, at least at the moment. It's really hard to formulate an opinion when we are consistently playing against either really good teams, or teams we should clearly outmatch. I won't be set and stone on my opinion until probably the MSU game before I completely write off the O-line, but I have no faith in Darren Hiller and would be shocked(and glad to admit I was wrong) if we even compete against a team like MSU.
As a unit, I think someone mentioned this already, but there doesn't seem to be much cohesion, our guys don't seem to flow. I didn't see a lack of cohesion as much in the pass against Idaho, but that's probably because they went one on one a lot, and their stunts were horribly executed compared to our first opponent, hopefully it's also a sign of progress for this O-line, but the difference between Idaho and Iowa talent wise is massive. The run game is more what frustrated me against Idaho, our O-line as a whole looked like they were only slightly outmatching Idaho, someone on the Vandals defensive front would always getting penetration, and it was not often our runners got further than the LOS without someone getting a hand on them. I have higher expectations than that when you are playing an FBS team. When Indiana plays Idaho, our O-line should look like Ohio State's O-line did last year in developing wholes against our D-line. There would be times OSU would get such a push, Indiana wouldn't have a guy touch Master Teague or Trey Sermon for four-five yards.
I honestly wish IU played a team like Nebraska or Illinois this week. That would be the true tell, if our O-line could match up against them, I would be pleasantly surprised, I feel like they wouldn't, but that's just speculation. We go from playing a top 10 team and our O-line got throttled, to playing an FCS team and our O-line won the LOS, but in unimpressive fashion, to playing another top 10 team(though their talent level is more like a mid tier B1G team), then a GO5 team, then ANOTHER top 10-15 team, at least at the moment. It's really hard to formulate an opinion when we are consistently playing against either really good teams, or teams we should clearly outmatch. I won't be set and stone on my opinion until probably the MSU game before I completely write off the O-line, but I have no faith in Darren Hiller and would be shocked(and glad to admit I was wrong) if we even compete against a team like MSU.
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We seem to go after a LOT of Midwestern guys for the OL. We can surely find 10 guys around the SEC country who would help here.
Coach Hiller has had 4 full season and this off-season to develop the OL and he has failed to have a very good OL in the time he has been here. He needs to be replaced and get very good OL. I still have questions about coach Sheridan and his ability to call a good game but I will wait and see through this season if he does do better.
Idaho brought in a few D1 players for defense so they aren't just FCS player up front and the problem is coach Hiller.
I agree Hiller's definitely the problem, hopefully he changes my mind but I don't see it, Idaho has brought in a few P5 transfers, but let's be real here, if they are transferring from an FBS school to an FCS school, it's for PT because they couldn't move up the depth chart(aka 3rd stringers at P5 schools, which is what I said their talent level was the equivalent of)
Lot of good points on here and I agree that Hiller has underwhelmed. The play calling deservedS a lot of the blame aS well. If you don’t call plays that make defenses pay for being overly aggressive they will constantly come off the ball with their ears pinned back and that is tough for an oline to block. How many traps, screens, draws, etc. have we run this year? I can’t remember any and that adds to our oline troubles.
Ouch! I try not to personalize things but I admitted many times at first blush he didn’t pass the test but after four years I’m thinking it’s more truly he doesn’t fit the play on the field test now.The reason our offensive line doesn't improve
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I am sure he is a good guy but the results say he isn't the man for the job.
I usually agree with you but not in this case. He has not had a full year this year as we are only week 2. You can not count last year as a full year at all. This is the third offensive coordinator in 5 years. They have had injuries to key linemen each season they have had to replace 2-3 starters at the beginning of each season.
I don’t know if you actually rewatched the Iowa game if you did you would see that the offensive line did not play that bad except one person. As you know one guy having a bad game can make the entire group look bad. One thing I will tell you is that I trust CTA to do the right thing for the program if he elects to move on Hiller then I will 100% agree and support his decision. If he decides to stay with Hiller then I will trust his judgment there also. What I hate is these folks who are not involved on a daily basis saying CTA refuses to fire him because they are friends. I really find it interesting to how many folks on here watch the game like you would as a a coach and rewind each play 10-15 or 20 times to evaluate each player. I hope that all of this turns out to be a mute point and the o line and backs and receivers get it together and play the remainder of the season like the second half of the Ohio State game last year .
No none of us are experts but we can see the results and it is not pretty. Everyone on the line has experience so it is not like we are breaking in freshman.
They have continually underperformed. We all hope the issue gets addressed one way or another
They have continually underperformed. We all hope the issue gets addressed one way or another
I agree none of us are experts so why do we think we have a right to say CTA has to fire this guy or that guy. We are two games into a season. We lost to a team many handicappers believed we would lose in a hostile environment true not the way it was expected. We come back home and beat a team we were expected to beat by more than we were expected to win by. We did in a not pretty way. But mission accomplished. Our starter at running back averaged 5 yds/carry on 22 carries. Other guys not as successful. One a transfer from ISU the other a walk-on. Not sure why Baldwin or Ellis did not get more touches. Probably highly unlikely Carr averages 5ypc this week but if he can get close to 4 I will take it or if he gets over 20 carries I will take it. As for your statement about experience I have said it before and say it again they may have experience but not playing together. It makes a difference. There is no position group that depends on each other to be successful. Already 2 different combinations this year. Not sure how many last year were used but I remember a lot of shuffling of guys especially in the bowl game. If you notice teams will play many different defensive linemen but not a lot of of offensive linemen in general. I will tell I was just as disappointed at first watch of Iowa game. But after second look it was one guy who really hurt us and yet our coaching staff is high on. I know CTA loves this guy and I don’t get it. I will tell you that if Hiller can’t figure out a way to get him to be better or convince coach to replace him then the o line will struggle and he may have to go. I just laugh that we say that Hiller does not develop guys but we have actually had as many guys or more from o line get looks in the NFL than any other group except maybe secondary. And Bedford is on the Outland watch I know along with a ton of other guys .
That is just a laundry list of excuses. Most every team has to move pieces around on the OL.
This is a forum. People can express their opinion on the OL.
This is a forum. People can express their opinion on the OL.
Yes you can call them excuses but you can also call them facts that make it tough to be good two weeks into the season. Most really good offenses do not have to move people around. Yes you are entitled to your opinion it is a forum and I thought debate I’d the purpose of a forum?
A lot of us tried to reason away Debord's failures, but once he was gone it became crystal clear that he had been holding the team back. It makes sense to look at o-line failures from every angle, but it's hard for me to shake the idea that someone could be doing a better job with the players we have.
Exactly! Deboer did really well offensively with the same type of guys and same OL coach. He understood where the deficiencies were and how to overcome them. Time for Sheridan to step it up.
Hundred percent my sentiments exactly.
HA I’ve always been rational and tried to be objective. If they’re starting to make sense that’s a good sign your blinders are coming off and you’re seeing more clearly
GotchaHA I’ve always been rational and tried to be objective. If they’re starting to make sense that’s a good sign your blinders are coming off and you’re seeing more clearly
Alright, I'll let you get back to eating your applesauce and watching Matlock reruns.
Fpeaugh and Fpeaugh2 and Fpeaugh3 are straight-shooters. They’ve been more right about things on these boards than they have been wrong. Fpeaugh had the Thad Matta thing pegged a full week before it started to surface. Fpeaugh2 has had great insight on opponents. That’s why when everyone is losing their shit over a games and portray Cincy as Alabama 2.0, the Fpeaugh team will roll in to offer some words of wisdom to ground everyone. He’s got his finger on the pulse of quite a bit.
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