KW recruited those players years before Allen got here. KW and Co are the ones who upped the level of recruiting. Getting more 4 stars in one class than the previous 10 years combined. Allen did not recruit a single player on last year's defense.
Who's to blame?
- Thread starter fpeaugh
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Wilson took IU to back to back bowl games for the first time in 20 years. How about those facts?
Tell me something: what good did those 4 stars do us when they got kicked off or left?
You're right. KW recruited them. Couldn't do a damn thing with them until Tom Allen molded them.
We no chance, zero, at a bowl game last year were it not for the job Tom Allen did with the defense.
I've said this many times: Allen saved Wilson's ass last year. If he doesn't statistically elevate that defense, we were staring down the barrel of 3 wins.
2nd ranked offense, 9th ranked defense. But keep living in your alternate reality ignoring the facts.
So, based on that, Glass determined that Wilson was expendable, Allen would replace him, no search would occur, and no other candidates would be considered. That's why people rightly believe Glass is way over his head.
What he did was idiotic, even as those who applaud it do so without an understanding of why IU's program is historically one of the worst in college football. It's almost comical.
We have Fred through 2023 at least. He intends to retire from the AD position.
Plan your Fall weekends accordingly, and there very likely won't be a need to wait to plan family trips around the Holidays.
I appreciate your sentiment and here is how the rest of the year plays out for IU football: We're going to beat Charleston Southern, we're going to lose to Michigan, we'll end up 6-6 and we'll play in a bowl game sometime around Christmas rather than sometime around New Year's Day.
IU football coaches have been trying to improve the quality of recruits for as long as I have been alive. Sure, once in a while we get Harry Gonso or Anthony Thompson, Tim Clifford or Antwaan Randle El -- but we don't get a dozen of them to come here in the same four-year period -- which is what the O$Us and P$Us and Meatchickens of the world do.
I am 57 years old. If it hasn't happened in more than a half century, is it reasonable to ask if it ever will?
Since we have always gotten what we have always gotten and they earned the same old results, I'm going to assume that we're going to get what we've always gotten and they'll get pretty much the same results.
The only one living in an alternate universe is you, if you don't think our D was greatly improved last year, you either never watched a game or forgot about Wilson's D's that couldn't force 1 punt from the likes of Navy.
2015 we gave up 498.8 yards/game and an average of 37.6 points/game, in 2016 we gave up 363 yards/game and an average of 27.2 points/game. But yea, I'm living in an alternate universe, lol.
Bill Lynch made it bowl games the same ratio as did Wilson, his best season was one that Wilson could not duplicate in 6 attempts, and he had a superior overall winning percentage. So, like I said, Wilsons career at IU was below that of the man he replaced.
Just because you were too much of a dimwit to see the numerous deficiencies that we all saw in Wilson several seasons ago, and you cream your pants over the prospect of someone going 6-0 vs the mediocre to terrible teams they play and going 0-6 against the good teams they play.....don't presume everyone else is the same.
I will do a bit of research tomorrow, but that would surprise me given his play calling, QB recruiting issues, and clock management problems. That said, recall that fans were still unaware of the internal problems with player mistreatment.
That's BS.... Lynch best years was with Heps team. Each team got progressively worst. CKW was left a pile of excrement with no relationships in recruiting built. I was "that close" to dropping my tickets if the gum thrower remained. IU got 5 more years out of me before I decided to turn them in. To compare Lynch to CakW is rediculous
Such a silly analysis, 4 games into a season that we've lost twice to the then #2 (1st game of the season) and now #4 team in the country (on the road). We weren't favored in either game and there were many positives to point to in both games.
There are no moral victories and of course some of PSU game turnovers were highly frustrating. But still say the IU Def is better than it's ever been going back to Randle El.
Why do these guys have to go to "Allen is a joke" "Glass is worst AD ever" BS in game 4. How about give Allen 2 full seasons to be evaluated vs 4 games? What a joke!
Let's not be naive, IU won't be favored against Mich or Wisc for sure. At MSU will be tough game too. It's not like those are patsy teams we're not showing up for either, but 2 are top 10, and "maybe" MSU is getting old swagger back.
Still, IU can seemingly go toe to toe with most and think if can get healthier and clean up some of the sloppy plays, can beat about anyone on the remaining schedule. This is a team that doesn't throw in the towel.
Wish guys who are such drips, negative and downers would just go jump on an OSU or PSU bandwagon and be happy following a proven winner. And we'll enjoy the process of seeing Allen build a winning culture and team at IU, in what likely will still be a 2-3 year process to get more of talent he needs.
There are no moral victories and of course some of PSU game turnovers were highly frustrating. But still say the IU Def is better than it's ever been going back to Randle El.
Why do these guys have to go to "Allen is a joke" "Glass is worst AD ever" BS in game 4. How about give Allen 2 full seasons to be evaluated vs 4 games? What a joke!
Let's not be naive, IU won't be favored against Mich or Wisc for sure. At MSU will be tough game too. It's not like those are patsy teams we're not showing up for either, but 2 are top 10, and "maybe" MSU is getting old swagger back.
Still, IU can seemingly go toe to toe with most and think if can get healthier and clean up some of the sloppy plays, can beat about anyone on the remaining schedule. This is a team that doesn't throw in the towel.
Wish guys who are such drips, negative and downers would just go jump on an OSU or PSU bandwagon and be happy following a proven winner. And we'll enjoy the process of seeing Allen build a winning culture and team at IU, in what likely will still be a 2-3 year process to get more of talent he needs.
Well said...
I think it was the way we lost that has everyone all bent. I was hoping for a good game but it was hell to watch at the beginning.
1st they obviously saw what I was worried about after last week. Morgan can be careless with the ball aka almost 2 T.O. last week against Southern on the goal line. He's a freshman so his first carry they went straight after the ball and caused a T.O.
2. All the underneath throws on 3rd down from the QB's just looked like awful play calling but it was obvious they were looking for more it was just covered. QB play right now SUCKS. I can't wait for Tronti! When you have receivers like we have you have to expect that they are going to make plays and take some shots.
3. The OL is getting better. We had plenty of time to throw and had 177 on the ground which is very respectable.
4. If you look at the box score out gained us by a measly 18 yards.
It wasn't psu beating us we beat ourselves and that's a tough hump to get over. They obviously have things to work on so hopefully they get it worked out. We also bottled up Barkley to just 56 yards rushing who woulda thought that before the game.
One thing that I notice though is the zone blocking scheme we used to run. We don't run it anymore. The past few years we have lived by the zone block with cut back runners which have made the RB's look awesome. We are running more straight ahead now which doesn't look as good but we are starting to mount a rushing attack.
Given those 4 choices, I would choose E. -- to fire you as a fan. Take your love for Wilson over to Ohio. To speak of firing a coach 4 games in, and going 2-2 with the two losses to #2 and #4 nationally ranked at the time, is beyond asinine.
Please keep him down in Blooneyville after the firing. Glass and his mentors Swarbrick and Bayh have done quite enough for Indy and Marion County's taxpayers to last a lifetime.
Glass’s talents are certainly well suited for the political arena, and he’s done a bang up job planning and building facilities with the Big Ten windfall. But he needs adult supervision where coach hiring and general supervision is concerned. He’s way over his head there.
You have to be critical of the coaching staff when a team comes out and makes the number of errors we did on Saturday. The errors and lack of concentration in the first quarter shows the team wasn't mentally prepared to start the game. I want to know if the coaches really wanted to kick off to a Heisman candidate.
Kevin Wilson is gone. He coached some bad games himself. I still support Allen. II feel he will be honest about what happened and how to correct the issues we had.
The main problems for the team this year (QB play and OL) are the same ones we had last year. So its quite funny that we are seeing proclamations that Wilson should have been kept at all costs essentially because Allen/Debord haven't been able to fix the problems they inherited from Wilson 4 games into the year.
"...essentially the same team..."
Here's the folks who STARTED last year's Penn State game that could not play this year:
Ricky Jones
Nick Westbrook
Mitchell Paige
Dan Feeney
Jacob Bailey
Devine Redding
Wes Martin
Wes Rogers
Marcus Oliver
Marcellino Ball
Patrick Daugherty
A'Shon Riggins
Nile Sykes also played last year - not this year, as did Ralph Green.
You want Glass fired for firing Wilson?
Just say it.
Be a man.
Instead, you are trying to act like you know what you are talking about when you don't.
Stop that.
It's annoying.
I'm not a blind follower.
It's more accurate to say "I can't change it - Wilson is gone whether I like it or don't like it. They didn't ask me. They told me. Why fight about it now?"
On the whole, Wilson eventually had a really effective offense, but his first 4 games were no picnic either. (1-3 - lost to Ball State at Lucas Oil, lost at Virginia, beat South Carolina State, lost at North Texas).
We never looked like we even knew what we were doing year 1.
In year 3 we still couldn't beat Navy and still made dumb calls late in the year (ala Game 8 Minnesota) and lost to Wisconsin 51-3 in Year 3, Game 10.
Let's not kid ourselves - Wilson did not create some juggernaut quickly.
Year 4 sucked at 1-7 in conference with injuries putting Hollywood at starting QB for the second half of the year.
Year 5 and 6 were solid, not spectacular.
Right now we gotta fight like hell to use what Wilson left as a springboard instead of a millstone.
Most times, a new staff takes at least a step, sometimes a big step, sometimes a HUGE step, backwards.
I'm not seeing that YET outta this staff.
We could go either way.
I liked what I saw out of DeBord in the Virginia game - we junked a game plan, had the guts to replace a starter QB, and stayed with what worked.
Any game plan we took to Happy Valley got blown up KO/TD, Fumble/TD, Punt Fumble/TD, roughing the punter on 4th and 15/TD, Welcome to 28-zip in the first quarter!
I wanna see damn-near perfect execution against Charleston South and then a competitive game with Michigan.
If we can get to 4-4, or maybe even 5-3, and then go 3-1 in our last 4, I'll forget and forgive pretty quick.
So will you, right?
Wilson had the #2 passing offense in the Big Ten last year with the same QB in his first year. The change is coaching.
I actually had much more of an issue with the Crean handling. But the Wilson situation was botched as well. So it's not just the Wilson firing.
All of this speaks to the program Wilson inherited compared to the program he left. That guy single handedly built the program we have today. I certainly hope Allen can build on that success, but I'm not holding my breath.
And the with sample size so far, half the opponents have been top 10 teams, against one Lagow threw for the 2nd most yards of his career
And another game we had nearly 300 yds rushing and played a walkon QB the entire 4th quarter.
Passing stats are extremely skewed so far based on opponents
First, you seem to be making season-over-season comparisons and drawing broad conclusions after just four games, with two of those games against two of the best teams in the country. Next, I think you're overstating the effectiveness of last year's offense. Yes, the passing yards stat was impressive, but you can't overlook the 17 picks.
Overall, last year's offense was a middling (at best) offense (56th nationally in total offense and 88th in scoring) and, in the red zone, it was the second worst in the country.
I don't intend for this to be a personal attack but that notion is just stupid. Mental errors and lack of focus is on the players, not the staff. Now, if those same players repeat those errors next week or the week after, that's on the coaches for not changing the players.
The kickoff return was the result of guys not staying in lanes and overpursuing. The players themselves accepted full blame for that. The fumble and the punt fumble are individual failures and roughing the kicker in that situation was ignorant.
When we weren't busy killing ourselves, our defense was very good. No less than James Franklin talked about how good our defensive game plan was. Offensively, we are challenged. We might not score enough to beat that defense under perfect circumstances, let alone giving away 28 points.
In past years, that start would have turned into a rout. As it was, we hung in and cut the lead in half in the second quarter. The effort was great, even though we were shorthanded and looking at long odds.
Not every problem is the result of poor coaching. It's why the most successful coaches work like hell to recruit the best players in the country. Until Saturday, we had been extremely sound fundamentally. Until the mistakes made Saturday become a pattern, I won't be inclined to think that the PSU loss is on the coaches.
Average yardage against just PSU/OSU last year vs this year
2017: 298 yds passing, 97 yds rushing, 395 total
2016: 263 yds passing, 95 yds rushing, 368 total
Nearly damn identical, and slightly better this year. In both years, we had one pretty good offensive game, and one sort of not so good game. And both not so good games were played in front of about 107k opposing fans.
2017: 298 yds passing, 97 yds rushing, 395 total
2016: 263 yds passing, 95 yds rushing, 368 total
Nearly damn identical, and slightly better this year. In both years, we had one pretty good offensive game, and one sort of not so good game. And both not so good games were played in front of about 107k opposing fans.
18 pts this year vs 24 last year. Yes, its lower this year, but considering its an average of just 2 games, pretty damn close, and not enough to get worked up about
Did you play the game? There is a limit to what a coach can do to change physical preparation from game to game, but the mental part is the area coaches have the most control. A team that commits too many penalties or has too many fumbles are the result of poor execution and preparation. It was amazing when I played how quickly mental mistakes disappear when a coach makes a priority to improve or be replaced.
Do you think this years basketball team will turn the ball over at the rate we did last several years? Same players, different coach and expectations. Different sport, but same effect coaching has on a team.
Players make mistakes and that isn't always the coach's fault. Coming out of the locker room and not being ready to compete is bad preparation. I guarantee the staff is looking at their preparation last week and the routine on game day for ways to improve our performance out of the locker room.
Frankly, we aren't as good on the offensive side of the ball this year. Our running game has taken a step backwards. Coming out and not being ready to play took away any chance of a competitive game. That start was unacceptable and somehow followed by one of our better quarters.
I spent thirty-plus years coaching high school basketball in Indiana. There were nights I knew in the locker room and during warmups that we weren't ready to play. I saw a lot of other teams come out that way against us over the years. Sometimes (more often than not) there's nothing you can do but harp and harp about mental preparation and remind players that you can see that they aren't in the right frame of mind. Very rarely did I have a team flip the switch and not stink the place up early in the game. Sometimes you get the ship righted before disaster strikes, sometimes not.
Coaching staffs will often talk about it on the sidelines before the game. It's infuriating, but it's also human nature. I remember as a player in high school getting called out by our coach before a game against a team we had beaten by twenty points earlier in the season. We got beat by twenty that night. We were awful. We talked about it to each other during the game and at halftime but we had already done the damage. I certainly didn't fault my coach for my own lack of mental preparation, but I'm sure some idiot parents and ignorant know-it-alls in the stands did.
I'm assuming you never coached anything at the high school or college level. If you had, you wouldn't have even thought to make that statement about coaches controlling the mental part of the game. That's nonsense.
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