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When did you see the writing on the wall

82hoosier

82hoosier

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Sep 7, 2001
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For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.



It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
 
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November 2009 in San Juan. IU lost all three games and in the final game lost to George Mason, who was made up of freshman and sophomores. And more than the result, the play just seemed so scattered. I really thought he'd be out after 3-4 years.
 
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82hoosier said:
For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.

View embedded media


It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
Click to expand...
When Cuban tweeted that ho-hum compliment a few days ago.
 
This has a Toby Keith, Where were you when the ball stopped turning(over), feel.

It was last year I finally jumped over.
 
82hoosier said:
For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.

View embedded media


It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
Click to expand...


Yes, the butler game. Not the one of which you speak, though. The one where Crean benched Zelller and we lost on a 6 foot white guy finger roll.

Anyway, that's all ancient history AFAIAC.
 
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Didn't like his resume, thought it was underwhelming and could have been one of a million coaches.

However he was a name and a talker so I figured he'd recruit like a madman.

Year three was an absolute abortion. We had more talent than all but four teams and we could only win three games? I also think that we had something like 9 games where we got down by twenty including UNI and Colorado...only to come roaring back when he stopped coaching and went full on press.

That's when I realized he was a fraud as a coach and was just a talker, recruiting coach.

I wanted him out.

Cody Zeller, who I LOVE, bought him five extra years and cost us Brad Stevens.
 
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TommyCracker said:
Didn't like his resume, thought it was underwhelming and could have been one of a million coaches.

However he was a name and a talker so I figured he'd recruit like a madman.

Year three was an absolute abortion. We had more talent than all but four teams and we could only win one game? I also think that wenhad something like 9 games where we got down by twenty including UNI and Colorado...only to come roaring back when he stopped coaching and went full on press.

That's when I realized he was a fraud as a coach and was just a talker, recruiting coach.

I wanted him out.

Cody Zeller, who I LOVE, bought him five extra years and cost us Brad Stevens.
Click to expand...
I think you are right on the last sentence. We could have passed on Cody if we knew Stevens would be here now.
 
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dbmhoosier said:
The Syracuse game. Our guys were truly surprised of the zone defense.
Click to expand...
I don't claim to know anything about the Xs and Os, but that was so obviously bad that I then starting watching more critically. When our game plans for PU with Hammons were to have our guards drive the lane against the best B1G shot blocker in years, that's when I was convinced he was in over his head.
 
I thought he was a good hire at the time, considering the position Kelvin S. left us in. I was generally supportive up to the last year or two. When it appeared that recruitment of highly ranked players began to drop off I went along with the feeling that he'd make a big splash with the 2017 class in Indiana. When he whiffed on this class I knew the combination of poor fundamentals and diminishing recruiting was leading to trouble.
 
Jeremiah Rivers continually drove into 3 defenders.

That's when I should have noticed...

When I did notice is when:

2011 Butler game when Zeller went to the bench...

When Austin Etherington was put in to guard Frank Kaminsky 2014? (The hall booed that).

Troy Williams handling the ball.

Noah Vonleh sitting out the last couple games.

Our guards driving behind the basket, year in, year out, year after year.

The Syracuse game

Ron Patterson

Gary Harris

The entire recruiting misses of last year.
 
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As a Kentucky fan I knew Billy Clyde wasn't the guy during his first public appearance. He said, "It's and honor, it's an honor...". Right then I told my Dad the guy was joke and doesn't have a clue what he has got himself in to.

When Crean took your job and said, "It's Indiana, it's Indiana" in what was an obviously orchestrated show I told my Dad the same and laughed. I told him Crean was a piece of crap carnival barker who somehow rode that 03 E8 game into one of the top 6 jobs in basketball.

Exciting times for you guys. You've waited long enough and some coach out there with the balls and coaching acumen is poised to make himself an icon if he rebuilds the Hoosier brand, and adds a banner to the wall.
 
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When Emit Holt hit Devin Davis with his car while intoxicated. I had doubts about Crean's basketball knowledge, but up until this incident I thought his players bought into him. Hanner Mosquera-Perea, Juwan Morgan, and Thomas Bryant were also involved. Considering the incident occurred one week before the season started, I realized that they didn't care about winning for their coach.
 
cshartle123 said:
When Emit Holt hit Devin Davis with his car while intoxicated. I had doubts about Crean's basketball knowledge, but up until this incident I thought his players bought into him. Hanner Mosquera-Perea, Juwan Morgan, and Thomas Bryant were also involved. Considering the incident occurred one week before the season started, I realized that they didn't care about winning for their coach.
Click to expand...
The issue at IU is bigger than Crean and his inability to rein in the basketball team. The time bomb for Glass is the pervasive party atmosphere among many of the teams representing IU, even during their respective seasons. It's hardly a secret.
 
Fredrica James said:
The issue at IU is bigger than Crean and his inability to rein in the basketball team. The time bomb for Glass is the pervasive party atmosphere among many of the teams representing IU, even during their respective seasons. It's hardly a secret.
Click to expand...
Was it a problem for Knight?
 
When we lost out after winning against two ranked teams in Year 3. After we beat Minnesota, I remember listening to Crimsoncast and I think it was Chronic Hoosier who said that Tom has gotten those guys to believe. And then, eight mind-numbing losses in a row. As if it were bad luck, like rain or something.
 
shooter1977 said:
November 2009 in San Juan. IU lost all three games and in the final game lost to George Mason, who was made up of freshman and sophomores. And more than the result, the play just seemed so scattered. I really thought he'd be out after 3-4 years.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't believe they couldn't step up and win one of those. By the time of the great losing streak of 2011, my mind was far and long made up.
 
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82hoosier said:
For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.

View embedded media


It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
Click to expand...
When he didn't get an extension last year.
 
Can anyone dig far enough back to find the thread after the Syracuse game? I have a feeling that is when a chunk of our fan base saw his flawed approach to the game, then his inability to address and correct these issues.
 
82hoosier said:
For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.

View embedded media


It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
Click to expand...

December 2012. Barlow of Butler hits the shot in the lane with Cody Zeller on the bench.
 
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cmsnow84 said:
Syracuse
Click to expand...

The Syracuse game was bad in itself, what really stunk was watching Michigan use Mitch McGary ( a poor man's Cody Zeller) a few games later, to do exactly to Syracuse what I was yelling at my TV screen for Crean to do.

And I am by no means an X and O guy but attacking a 2-3 zone is just basics. For a guy who grew up on Indiana...you wondered what the frick was going on.
 
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Fredrica James said:
The issue at IU is bigger than Crean and his inability to rein in the basketball team. The time bomb for Glass is the pervasive party atmosphere among many of the teams representing IU, even during their respective seasons. It's hardly a secret.
Click to expand...

That's not new. The guys in the 80s and 90s partied harder than anyone.
 
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IUCrazy2 said:
The Syracuse game was bad in itself, what really stunk was watching Michigan use Mitch McGary ( a poor man's Cody Zeller) a few games later, to do exactly to Syracuse what I was yelling at my TV screen for Crean to do.

And I am by no means an X and O guy but attacking a 2-3 zone is just basics. For a guy who grew up on Indiana...you wondered what the frick was going on.
Click to expand...

Exactly. MI continually found the hole in that zone with a much lesser player in McGary hitting that elbow jumper of drawing in defenders and passing. Zeller was made for that role and should have carved it up instead he put his head down and drove repeatedly. Still is maddening. Of course we were lucky to even be there as Temple almost got us the game before.
 
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82hoosier said:
For me it was the end of the Butler game when, with seconds remaining, and Butler had a 2 point lead and the ball under their own basket and TB opted to guard.... nobody. That should not happen in a 4 on 4 pickup game.

View embedded media


It had nothing to do with effort. It had everything to do with being lost on defense. And that is coaching. And if you can't make it work simplify it. Same with offense. If you are 344 in turnovers, slow things down. Simplify it.

We watched the same confusion at the end of the season as in the beginning of the same.
Click to expand...

The Butler game Zeller's sophomore year. For some insane reason he took Cody out for defense and kept Hulls in. The end result, Butler isolates Hulls and their walk on scores the winning bucket and we have no one protecting the rim.
 
2012 NCAA tournament game against Kentucky.

I had been getting an uneasy feeling about their defense for a while. That game firmly planted that concern as a mortal flaw for me with Tom Crean.

There were possessions in that game, a lot of possessions actually, where the game plan was to literally not guard Michael Kidd Gilchrest...lottery pick MKG... We also couldn't keep Teague out of the lane to save our lives. That game was lauded by many as a great performance...I was left nauseous after watching it.

And then my concerns for Tom Crean were cemented during the following year, ironically his best year at IU. I LOVED those teams, dearly loved watching them. And Crean deserves tons of credit for that. He brought them all in. But the way we lost games that next year...well, with that team we just shouldn't have lost to Butler, shouldn't have lost at home to Wisky and OSU, shouldn't have lost at Illinois, shouldn't have put Jordan Hulls on the bench for half the second half at Minnesota when he was on fire in the first half, shouldn't have lost to Wisky in the B10 tournament, shouldn't have struggled against Temple, and should have been better prepared to play Syracuse's zone...AND to guard Triche and MCW... I always get back to defense with Crean. Yes, the zone was a huge factor in our struggles, but if we're getting stops and establishing any sort of transition game, that game goes in a completely different direction. That's how Michigan beat them, got some stops, got some open 3 point looks in transition, and turned the pace up.

Anyway, we're in a good spot right now. Crean did some good things. We have talent on our roster. Lets get the right guy to take us to the next level.
 
Year 3. End of year slide and DFL finish in the Big 10. All while Stevens goes back to back 50 miles north. Ugh.
 
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