I hate to agree and like...bc Karma will have me dead by next Tuesday
What will you do in the absence of sports
- Thread starter vesuvius13
- Start date
Trust me - I'm in an extremely high risk group - cancer and age. But I refuse to live my life in fear. What good is it living if you are restricted in virtually everything you do?
And those restrictions will continue to tighten - I read today that in Fishers, IN, the mayor has forbidden any travel that isn't for buying groceries or going to the hospital or some other essential travel. I guess they will determine what is essential.
Bureaucrats given unfettered authority is a dangerous thing and I don't think people really understand it and what it means for the future. Any future President or media clamor can claim emergency and virtually shut the country down.
If this continues for another 6 months, it's going to get bad - civil unrest will give the government even more reason to crack down.
Oh, yes.....that was really good, "The Highwaymen". I saw it a few months back.
Danc that is my concern too as gov't gaining power doesn't like to give it up.
This is not the coming flu. Please stop with that.
And it's attacking more than just the elderly...
Thanks for the information B23B...
Staying home isn't about "living in fear" it's about looking out for your fellow American.
(In My Opinion): There's no "out toughing" this. There is a slim chance of "out smarting" it if we all just stay away from one another as much as possible for about three weeks...
Even if you don't die, some people are having permanent damage from it. It's highly contagious because no one has antibodies in their system to defend against it. Going around like nothing is happening is just irresponsible and could lead to more and more people getting infected.
People in Italy probably wish they could have a do-over when they acted like this was nothing to worry about.
And no, the government isn't going to keep any travel bans going after the pandemic is over. I live in Fishers and glad they are taking it seriously.
People in Italy probably wish they could have a do-over when they acted like this was nothing to worry about.
And no, the government isn't going to keep any travel bans going after the pandemic is over. I live in Fishers and glad they are taking it seriously.
No one is saying 'going around like nothing is happening.
60,000 people a yr die from the US not having universal healthcare like the entire rest of the industrialized world.
if American's cared a lick about the health/healthcare of the US, rather than the profitability of our healthcare, they wouldn't be voting that down decade after decade after decade.
you have to assume the real numbers are way worse than you've been told.
you literally can't even get tested in Indiana, even if you have every symptom..
and if no one can get tested, you can't have any "confirmed" cases, can you.
most people don't know of anyone ever killed by flu, because the official cause of death is never given as flu, but rather pneumonia, which was due to flu.
i'll assume pneumonia is the cause of most Corona deaths.
you need to realize who "govt" actually is.
maybe not so much at the municipal level, but at the state and national level, Wall St and big money now control all of govt on anything and everything Wall St and big money care about.
thus even Wall St and big money is freaked out by this, and unlike other things, is now sacrificing the short term for the long term. (though assuming the govt will just print up however many trillion dollars it takes to cover all their losses, and just give it to them). (the advantage of owning govt).
you need to quit obsessing short term, and think more long term.
Italy has universal, single-payer, healthcare.
How's that working out for them.
I've spend time in an Italian hospital. If you want 1950s-style health care, that's what you'll get.
Italy's healthcare system is consistently ranked by the World Health Organization, the Lancet and other reputable sources as among the best in the world.
it works great for them.
much better than ours does for most of us.
single payer has zero to do with Italy's system being overwhelmed, but i'm guessing you already knew that and said it anyway.
The what? Coming Flu? What's that? & would you please stop with the "please stop with that". No one knows EXACTLY what this is, but I do know the CONSTANT worst case scenario projections, while serving a purpose, also are problematic in that they encite fear, panic, panic buying, & resentment from a lot of people who do not respond well to hearing that they'll be in hibernation for a year. My point is, let's have some balanced reporting. Why not encourage people to take the proper steps by saying, idk, something like if we take all of the necessary steps, MAYBE we could be celebrating the 4th of July together, or something like that. Incentivize people, give them a goal. Don't only scare TF out of them, which is what is happening! Not to mention making people anxious & depressed. That's happening enough as it is. I know that people need to understand the severity of this, but FFS, we've gotten that message about 118,000 times in the last week! WE KNOW!!
Yeah, well, the WHO said there was not contagous among humans in mid January, too.
https://dailycaller.com/2020/03/18/...Xn7eAaoYRH2IGZOliR_o96C3lxRvS5iGurFc82ayfTPo0
I was there and spent over 2 weeks in an Italian hospital in Tuscany - Livorno. It's a large hospital. 4 to a room, males and females together, no air conditioning.... straight out of the 1950s.
Don't believe everything you read.
I'm guessing you've never personally experienced the Italian health care system.
Food for thought!!! A personal friend of mine, who is a Dr. shared this! You may think I’m crazy, but, from what’s going on in this world, I don’t care!
Hope to see you all soon!
PLS READ: This is one of the most very informative explanations of Covid 19: FROM JEAN BAGGA. SO THAT ALL OF US MAY KNOW N TAKE D UTMOST CARE ~
Posting this from my Med school classmate’s son’s roommate whose sister works for the CDC:
“It has been so very hard to be quiet even though my phone is blowing up with questions that I can’t answer... for some of you who don’t know my sister is a contractor for the CDC in Atlanta, she is a microbiologist.
My sister shared this and I hope those of you who think our government is overreacting read this and also don’t just watch the local news... pay attention globally.
This should help explain why we have to quarantine and not just those with compromised immune systems.... but everyone until this contained.... read it until the end.
Feeling confused as to why Coronavirus is a bigger deal than Seasonal flu? Here it is in a nutshell. I hope this helps. Feel free to share this to others.
It has to do with RNA sequencing.... I.e. genetics.
Seasonal flu is an “all human virus”. The DNA/RNA chains that make up the virus are recognized by the human immune system.
This means that your body has some immunity to it before it comes around each year... you get immunity two ways...through exposure to a virus, or by getting a flu shot.
Novel viruses, come from animals.... the WHO tracks novel viruses in animals, (sometimes for years watching for mutations).
Usually these viruses only transfer from animal to animal (pigs in the case of H1N1) (birds in the case of the Spanish flu).
But once, one of these animal viruses mutates, and starts to transfer from animals to humans... then it’s a problem.
Why? Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off.
Now.... sometimes, the mutation only allows transfer from animal to human, for years it’s only transmission is from an infected animal to a human before it finally mutates so that it can now transfer human to human...
Once that happens..we have a new contagion phase.
And depending on the fashion of this new mutation, thats what decides how contagious, or how deadly it’s gonna be..
H1N1 was deadly....but it did not mutate in a way that was as deadly as the Spanish flu.
It’s RNA was slower to mutate and it attacked its host differently, too.
Fast forward.
Now, here comes this Coronavirus... it existed in animals only, for nobody knows how long...but one day, at an animal market, in Wuhan China, in December 2019, it mutated and made the jump from animal to people.
At first, only animals could give it to a person... But here is the scary part.... in just TWO WEEKS it mutated again and gained the ability to jump from human to human.
Scientists call this quick ability, “slippery”
This Coronavirus, not being in any form a “human” virus (whereas we would all have some natural or acquired immunity). That propelled off like a rocket.
And this was because, Humans have no known immunity...doctors have no known medicines for it.
And it just so happens that this particular mutated animal virus, changed itself in such a way the way that it causes great damage to human lungs..
That’s why Coronavirus is different from seasonal flu, or H1N1 or any other type of influenza.... this one is slippery AF.
And it’s a lung eater... And, it’s already mutated AGAIN, so that we now have two strains to deal with, strain S, and strain L....which makes it twice as hard to develop a vaccine.
We really have no tools in our shed, with this.
History has shown that fast and immediate closings of public places has helped in the past pandemics.
Philadelphia and Baltimore were reluctant to close events in 1918 and they were the hardest hit in the US during the Spanish Flu.
Factoid: Henry VIII stayed in his room and allowed no one near him, till the Black Plague passed...(honestly...I understand him so much better now).
Just like us, he had no tools in his shed, except social isolation...
And let me end by saying....right now it’s hitting older folks harder...
But this genome is so slippery...if it mutates again (and it will). Who is to say, what it will do next.
Be smart folks... acting like you’re unafraid is so not sexy right now.
#flattenthecurve. Stay home folks... and share this to those that just are not catchin on.”
This explains the differences
"Because we have no natural or acquired immunity.. the RNA sequencing of the genes inside the virus isn’t human, and the human immune system doesn’t recognize it so, we can’t fight it off"
And yet, we do fight it off. For the vast majority, it's no more than a nuisance or worse than a case of the flu.
This is the type of hype that panics people unnecessarily. I've seen this making the social media rounds today.
It's already leveling off in China and South Korea (flattening the curse, as they say) - it's not the zombie apocolypse predicted there.
The World Health Organization, in mid January, was reporting what the Chinese medical authorities were telling them. There was no other information available, as the virus wasn't even identified prior to December 2019. It's called the "novel" coronavirus for a reason.
In any event, that's a nice deflection on your part, but it has nothing to do with the quality of healthcare in Italy. Your attempt to generalize from a single experience in Italy would be like me saying U.S. healthcare sucks because I once had a bad experience in an American ER. Show me some authority that refutes my claim that the healthcare system in Italy is widely considered to be among the best in the world. P.S. You can't. P.P.S. Don't believe everything you hear from Tucker Carlson.
Tucker Carlson is a fear monger.
I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't believe those conditions exist, there's nothing i can do to convince you.
So, the WHO doesn't indendently verify its claims? Whatever happened to research and being 'data driven'?
Where does the WHO get its information about Italian health care? From Italians? Let's see the source of your information. In fact, let's see any documentation of your claims.
Guess I'm gonna tick off half the board in less than two days but I just have to put this out there Bowlmania:
The Italian health care system has failed the Italians miserably in this crisis... They are dropping like flies over there...
If they truly are the international gold standard then we all had best just bend over and kiss our collective a-- 's goodbye.
Color me underwhelmed by the Italian Health Care System...
Last edited:
Part of the problem is the Italian population is fairly old. So, it's going to affect them more.
Also - and I keep saying this - Italians smoke like chimneys. When I was there, the doctors went on smoke breaks. They - and a lot of Europeans - think Americans are puritanical for being so against smoking.
Since this virus attacks the lungs, that ain't good.
But there's no way I'd rate the Italian health care system as being close to ours.
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(18)30994-2&mod=article_inline
I see your exchanges with other people on other topics in other threads and I know you always insist on the last word, so have at it. But, on this topic at least, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I don't need to have the last word.
If you think Italy ranks 9th while the US ranks 29th, I urge you to go there and see for yourself. You won't, but you should so you don't continue to spout propaganda.
You left out the WHO ratings. I was looking forward to that.
The problem isn't the quality of their health care system. It's the Italian government. They were too late in suspending flights from China, which sends tourists (including from the Wuhan region) to Italy in droves.
Italy doesn't have enough ICU beds and ventilators needed for a pandemic that no one saw coming just a few months ago. It's quite possible we're in the same predicament. More than a few epidemiologists have opined that we're only about 10-14 days behind Italy in terms of the scope and breadth of this outbreak.
OK, sure. Italy is 2nd and the US is 37th.
You're right - I'm in way over my head when it comes to arguing with the gullible. You got me there.
Oh, then there's this at the end of the article you apparently didn't notice:
NOTE: The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task.
Aware of that info.
I've been there (although fortunately I've not been in one of their hospitals)...
Italy (in my opinion) is one of the least sanitary "developed" countries I've ever visited... It's hard to imagine their health care system not following in kind...
Obviously (based on your numbers) someone thinks highly of it. Wouldn't put much stock in what the World Health Organization has to say these days however...
At any rate, they appear to be struggling in a major way right now. Let's hope we don't reach that level of despair over here (and I agree it's possible)... Guess we'll know by the end of the month...
Not sure where you visited but I've lived there and that wasn't my experience at all.
There is a major cultural difference in the sense that the Italian people are very tactile - - they (even the men) often walk arm-in-arm, and many Italians don't maintain physical distance like we do here in the U.S. All of this may have been a factor in the initial rapid spread.
If people want to convince themselves that what's happening in Italy can't happen here because they believe Italy has bad healthcare, it's dirty, it's a shithole country or whatever, go for it. But you may want to listen to esteemed experts like Dr. Fauci (who is, ironically, Italian-American) who say it can happen here. Complacency is not our friend right now.
Just telling you my experience and extrapolating from there...
As far as here goes you don't need to convince me.
In my opinion..., the only thing that's going to save us from all the young morons running around like it's business as usual and infecting nearly everyone they meet will be several Hail Mary type groups of efforts [as in multiple approaches] by the best health care system in the world (our own).
There's a lot of talk about this being a "wartime" scenario and they are correct in saying that. Let's hope our health care workers don't suffer some of the highest casualty rates...
We are the greatest country in the world but our healthcare system is far from the best in the world. That said, I agree with the gist of your post. And, speaking of Hail Marys, some extra prayers right now probably wouldn't hurt.
Sigh...I already know all of things. I agree, staying home is the best advice, as much as possible. & still my point remains: we need something other than worst case scenario. I see that the FDA is fast tracking anti viral treatments, & we'd better hope with all our might that something works & can be distributed rapidly, quickly--as in days. I fear that there is a point at which if we don't open things, & restart the economy, there will be no point in even treating this virus because we'll all be cooked anyway. Let's REALLY hope it doesn't get anywhere near that point, otherwise some very tough decisions might need to be made. I'd prefer that we all just be responsible & stop this virus on our own--perhaps spending the month of April in lockdown--ALL of us(I'm sure that wold be real popular)because we all know that its impossible the entirety of our population will comply with social distancing, all of the handwashing, etc. etc. Anyway, everyone be smart, be safe, GO HOOSIERS!
I really think we were put in a no win situation.
Do nothing and this thing gets out of hand and everyone gets all upset because nothing was done.
Close everything and keep people safe and keep the damage to a minimum.
I know which one I'm okay with.
It's totally a no win situation, but ultimately it could become about survival...for all of us. You're concerned with saving as many people as possible, & ABSOLUTELY rightfully so, everyone should be. & perhaps I shouldn't be looking ahead, but I can't help it, it's the way I think, but "saving as many people as possible" could mean something very different several months from now. & I'm not saying we should change our approach towards the virus right now, not at all. So what i'm saying has little relevance at the moment, but I'm keeping my mind open, it's just the way it operates.
life expectancy in Italy is 4.5 yrs longer than in the US, (closer to 5 yrs for men), but what could be a worse healthcare gauge than that.
obviously paying twice as much for healthcare than every other industrialized country is paying off big time.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Alec Baldwin fired prop gun that killed woman on film set of Rust- Latest: BradStevens
-