What I like about Franklin

[iubud]

I liked Franklin last year. He did a lot well for a freshman. Shooting can improve but it is rare that defensive instinct and overall basketball IQ would improve drastically. He has a good instinct and knows where to position himself on D. If Franklin makes a mistake, watch him make a play on the other end of the court to atone for that mistake. He doesn't compound the mistake by fouling or overplaying, but he contributes something to reduce the harm.

Too many times, a player like Devonte Green will turn the ball over or take a stupid shot and point to themselves "my bad" while the other team makes a layup or nails a 3. A player like Franklin hustles back to take real accountability. Maybe it is the way we were raised to play the game in Indiana.

I saw something Sunday that reminded me of the best 5th grader I coached. The 5th grader would watch the ball handler and time his steals so as the ball was dribbled and hit the floor, he basically took the ball off the floor on the bounce and drove to the basket. Franklin did this and I LOVED it!

I didn't teach the 5th grader how to steal the ball. He watched and learned. One particular game he had the other team's PG and one of the best players in the city in tears.

Lander has the ability. I know he has shown the IQ at earlier ages. Galloway has that same mental toughness. I really like the potential for Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and TJD. Rob will one of the 5 early but this team has room to grow quickly.

 

[Jssanto]

To me, Franklin is one of the first to turn “bigger and stronger weight room” into better play on the floor.

 

[iubud]

To me, Franklin is one of the first to turn “bigger and stronger weight room” into better play on the floor.

That is a good observation. He does look stronger. He found a way to improve despite challenges of reduced contact with the team in the off season

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

To me, Franklin is one of the first to turn “bigger and stronger weight room” into better play on the floor.

Just adore this specious theory that strength training and enhancement impacts negatively on Players and their game. Makes me doubt that any of the skeptics/critics of such have ever been a part of same.

This is NCAA D1 Basketball. The best athletes in the country distilled from high schools and junior colleges all across the US and beyond. Never mind that IU plays in the toughest most physical Conference in the Country, where does anyone get the notion that lighter, weaker and less fit is an asset, that being stronger negatively affects performance on the Court? Or that professionals who make careers out of improving Player conditioning and optimizing athletic performance don't know what they're doing?

Sign me up. Clearly am in need of this arcane wisdom that less is more.

 

[TR32]

...where does anyone get the notion that lighter, weaker and less fit is an asset, that being stronger negatively affects performance on the Court? Or that professionals who make careers out of improving Player conditioning and optimizing athletic performance don't know what they're doing?

Calling the plethora of basketball conditioning jockeys "professionals" is your problem here.

Half those guys are playground handlers with keys to a gym and a nice mix tape, or whatever it is called these days.

I think a quick study of Pete Marovich will help you understand the other point of view.

Also, I don't think anyone says strength hurts you. What hurts is spending all the time that would enable basketball skill improvement, on strength training instead. Guys who can't shoot need to be able to shoot before they need to look like Arnold.
Don't show up as a sophomore with muscles and another year of 27% outside shooting. That's the gist.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Calling the plethora of basketball conditioning jockeys "professionals" is your problem here.

Half those guys are playground handlers with keys to a gym and a nice mix tape, or whatever it is called these days.

I think a quick study of Pete Marovich will help you understand the other point of view.

Also, I don't think anyone says strength hurts you. What hurts is spending all the time that would enable basketball skill improvement, on strength training instead. Guys who can't shoot need to be able to shoot before they need to look like Arnold.
Don't show up as a sophomore with muscles and another year of 27% outside shooting. That's the gist.

So, "playground handlers with keys to a gym" is your assessment of IU's relevant staff? You should probably get out more.

It's Maravich, and he was a phenomenon, and not in anyway typical. But if you want to believe that strength and conditioning is of negligible benefit to "skill improvement", go for it, but again I wonder if you've speaking from any actual experience.

Have yet to see anyone in CandyStripes who looks remotely like Arnold, but if you need gross exaggeration to make your case, says something about its merits. Not as if time in the weight room eliminates other activities relating to improving basic skills - these guys are pretty much working/living to get better 24/7, regular time on the weights probably comes as a needed and welcome relief.

 

[5morebanners]

He’s emerging as a very reliable, durable two way player. Lots of improvement and has a swagger, and a quiet confidence about him that I like. We will need him to continue to take and make shots and be a reliable 2nd or 3rd scorer. And as long as he keeps checking the other teams best guards, he’ll probably lead the team in minutes this year.

 

[T.M.P.]

So, "playground handlers with keys to a gym" is your assessment of IU's relevant staff? You should probably get out more.

yea, no kidding.

 

[TR32]

So, "playground handlers with keys to a gym" is your assessment of IU's relevant staff?

Nope. I said nothing about IU.

 

[fkfootball]

Tom Coverdale looked like a kid playing basketball at the HPER. But the guy was country strong and could drill a 20 footer with his eyes closed. Was Nick Ziesloft ripped? Jordan Hulls? Matt Roth? Should I keep going? We need to recruit kids who well renowned for that skill.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Nope. I said nothing about IU.

That seems rather disingenuous as the discussion was specific to Franklin and IU. Don't see why other Programs' alleged deficiencies are relevant.

 

[T.M.P.]

Was Nick Ziesloft ripped? Jordan Hulls? Matt Roth?

Three guys that couldn't guard a chair.

Must have been the sand traps and all the dancing videos improved their shooting. I guess you don't remember much of the constant hype by Crean about our SnC coaches and workouts. Those players listed put in as many hours as any on this current team is doing and were hyped as much if not more. Every freakin basketball player in HS, D-1, D-2, D-3, Europe and the NBA is doing SnC at some level. There's nothing wrong with strength .............

What you guys don't get is added strength is the least of the goals. Those workouts also include increasing agility, balance, quickness, stamina, and flexibility. All of those are good things for any athlete.

But yea, these billion dollar organizations with those idjit pro-fes-shun-als and moran ex-per-tees, they's got it all wrong and are jest ruinin' the shootin' ". .. *eyeroll*

The get off my lawn crowd is just being silly.

 

[Cavanagh]

Three guys that couldn't guard a chair.

Must have been the sand traps and all the dancing videos improved their shooting. I guess you don't remember much of the constant hype by Crean about our SnC coaches and workouts. Those players listed put in as many hours as any on this current team is doing and were hyped as much if not more. Every freakin basketball player in HS, D-1, D-2, D-3, Europe and the NBA is doing SnC at some level. There's nothing wrong with strength .............

What you guys don't get is added strength is the least of the goals. Those workouts also include increasing agility, balance, quickness, stamina, and flexibility. All of those are good things for any athlete.

But yea, these billion dollar organizations with those idjit pro-fes-shun-als and moran ex-per-tees, they's got it all wrong and are jest ruinin' the shootin' ". .. *eyeroll*

The get off my lawn crowd is just being silly.

Can’t speak for Roth or Nick, but Jordan spent a ton of time shooting. He spent minimal time doing sandpit and weights.

Rob should spend all his spare time shooting. Those three that couldn’t guard a chair have never airballed a ft in their life and take advantage of free points in a game where taking advantage of those opportunities directly effects the outcome of said game. We currently suck so bad at those free opportunities that it will no doubt cost us multiple losses.

Iowa and Wisconsin don’t hit the weights like IU. They also don’t shoot like IU. There is some correlation between our shooting and our work out ethic. We are more physical than most, better at d, but much worse on offense and shooting. I don’t think that can be argued at this point.

 

[5morebanners]

Can’t speak for Roth or Nick, but Jordan spent a ton of time shooting. He spent minimal time doing sandpit and weights.

Rob should spend all his spare time shooting. Those three that couldn’t guard a chair have never airballed a ft in their life and take advantage of free points in a game where taking advantage of those opportunities directly effects the outcome of said game. We currently suck so bad at those free opportunities that it will no doubt cost us multiple losses.

Iowa and Wisconsin don’t hit the weights like IU. They also don’t shoot like IU. There is some correlation between our shooting and our work out ethic. We are more physical than most, better at d, but much worse on offense and shooting. I don’t think that can be argued at this point.

Correlation does not equal causation

 

[Cavanagh]

Correlation does not equal causation

Correct, but over a period of 4 years with ample evidence and data, it can be correlated.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

To me, Franklin is one of the first to turn “bigger and stronger weight room” into better play on the floor.

He isn't even the first on this team. Race did the same thing.

Bigger and stronger does not automatically create better play but it does enable better play for those who have the skills and are in need of strength. Many examples of this.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Can’t speak for Roth or Nick, but Jordan spent a ton of time shooting. He spent minimal time doing sandpit and weights.

Rob should spend all his spare time shooting. Those three that couldn’t guard a chair have never airballed a ft in their life and take advantage of free points in a game where taking advantage of those opportunities directly effects the outcome of said game. We currently suck so bad at those free opportunities that it will no doubt cost us multiple losses.

Iowa and Wisconsin don’t hit the weights like IU. They also don’t shoot like IU. There is some correlation between our shooting and our work out ethic. We are more physical than most, better at d, but much worse on offense and shooting. I don’t think that can be argued at this point.

Jordy did not need a lot more bulk or strength for his game. Franklin and Race did. As did Romeo.

 

[Cavanagh]

Jordy did not need a lot more bulk or strength for his game. Franklin and Race did. As did Romeo.

How about Rob? Newkirk? Devonte? The old other Rob? The one true player on the team that should always be good at shooting (devonte was a good shooter but not consistent) has been a liability under Archie.

 

[kkott]

Calling the plethora of basketball conditioning jockeys "professionals" is your problem here.

Half those guys are playground handlers with keys to a gym and a nice mix tape, or whatever it is called these days.

I think a quick study of Pete Marovich will help you understand the other point of view.

Also, I don't think anyone says strength hurts you. What hurts is spending all the time that would enable basketball skill improvement, on strength training instead. Guys who can't shoot need to be able to shoot before they need to look like Arnold.
Don't show up as a sophomore with muscles and another year of 27% outside shooting. That's the gist.

There really is no "other" point of view. Maravich was really on the forefront of skill-specific drills. He just did it himself vs having a coach show and train him. Just because you're doing drills, doesn't mean it's just for strength or conditioning. Watch all the skill specific drills Steph Curry does for dribbling, shooting, quickness/cutting, etc... and I think it will leave little doubt that these drills are immensely beneficial to him, and to anyone who did them regularly. If Maravich were alive today and of playing age, I have no doubt he'd be doing the same sorts of drills, not some alternative workout. In fact, many of the drills I recall being described in his book, were similar to the stuff Curry does... just forerunners. The key is finding trainers who have the best knowledge and drills!

 

[Crayfish57]

There really is no "other" point of view. Maravich was really on the forefront of skill-specific drills. He just did it himself vs having a coach show and train him. Just because you're doing drills, doesn't mean it's just for strength or conditioning. Watch all the skill specific drills Steph Curry does for dribbling, shooting, quickness/cutting, etc... and I think it will leave little doubt that these drills are immensely beneficial to him, and to anyone who did them regularly. If Maravich were alive today and of playing age, I have no doubt he'd be doing the same sorts of drills, not some alternative workout. The key is finding trainers who have the best drills!

Didn't Alford set up chairs in his driveway with brooms to shoot over?

 

[Birnk403]

There really is no "other" point of view. Maravich was really on the forefront of skill-specific drills. He just did it himself vs having a coach show and train him. Just because you're doing drills, doesn't mean it's just for strength or conditioning. Watch all the skill specific drills Steph Curry does for dribbling, shooting, quickness/cutting, etc... and I think it will leave little doubt that these drills are immensely beneficial to him, and to anyone who did them regularly. If Maravich were alive today and of playing age, I have no doubt he'd be doing the same sorts of drills, not some alternative workout. The key is finding trainers who have the best drills!

His coach was also his father, Press.

 

[kkott]

His coach was also his father, Press.

yes, I read the book, which is great btw, but I don't recall Press being that instrumental in Pete's training and development, other than Pete always being around his practices. Maybe he helped Pete to develop the drills, but my recollection is that, at least from the author's POV, Pete was just very interested in getting better and worked at creating drills that made sense to him, that would help with that and that he had a tremendous drive and work ethic. I think Pete would be there right alongside Steph doing similar drills, diet, yoga, etc... Whatever it took to make him better, not some alternative workout and training regiment. It has been probably 20 years since I read it (Pistol, if you're interested, and a highly recommended read).

I loved the book because so much of it took place right around where I live know. Think his Dad coached at Belmont Abbey (15 minutes from my office) in Gastonia, NC, Clemson and was hired at NC St to replace Everett Case... all before LSU. I think Pete was pretty much a lock to play for his Dad at NC St, but didn't have the grades for NC St or the ACC, and his Dad, with Pete in tow, wound up at LSU.

 

[Birnk403]

yes, I read the book, which is great btw, but I don't recall Press being that instrumental in Pete's training and development, other than Pete always being around his practices. Maybe he helped Pete to develop the drills, but my recollection is that, at least from the author's POV, Pete was just very interested in getting better and worked at creating drills that made sense to him, that would help with that. I think Pete would be there right alongside Steph doing similar drills, diet, yoga, etc... Whatever it took to make him better, not some alternative workout and training regiment.

He was highly instrumental in it and was literally his college coach. I take it you didn’t see him play at LSU?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

He’s emerging as a very reliable, durable two way player. Lots of improvement and has a swagger, and a quiet confidence about him that I like. We will need him to continue to take and make shots and be a reliable 2nd or 3rd scorer. And as long as he keeps checking the other teams best guards, he’ll probably lead the team in minutes this year.

As someone else said, if he hits 35% of his 3s on out this year he's our 2nd best player. He already plays better D and rebounds better than Al (as an example). Ball-handling is still relatively weak, but 3/4 isn't bad.

On the other hand, if 4 straight was an aberration and not a trend, if he goes back to 20-25%, he's just another guy no matter how good his attitude/effort.

 

[kkott]

He was highly instrumental in it and was literally his college coach. I take it you didn’t see him play at LSU?

Nope, before my time. My only memories of him as a player were late in his NBA career, when he was on hobbled knees. I know his Dad was a key to his development, but from my memory of the book, he created many of his own drills and was constantly inventing new ones. His Dad was already a college coach, and I just got the feeling Pete was doing all these drills and spending countless hours in the gym, but that it was mostly outside of his Dad's eye and he would just check in with him. He was a HC at Clemson and was being groomed to take over the NC St program, until Pete couldn't be admitted. The time I'm talking about was before college, as he was already working on his development as a player at that time. Make sense.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I liked Franklin last year. He did a lot well for a freshman. Shooting can improve but it is rare that defensive instinct and overall basketball IQ would improve drastically. He has a good instinct and knows where to position himself on D. If Franklin makes a mistake, watch him make a play on the other end of the court to atone for that mistake. He doesn't compound the mistake by fouling or overplaying, but he contributes something to reduce the harm.

Too many times, a player like Devonte Green will turn the ball over or take a stupid shot and point to themselves "my bad" while the other team makes a layup or nails a 3. A player like Franklin hustles back to take real accountability. Maybe it is the way we were raised to play the game in Indiana.

I saw something Sunday that reminded me of the best 5th grader I coached. The 5th grader would watch the ball handler and time his steals so as the ball was dribbled and hit the floor, he basically took the ball off the floor on the bounce and drove to the basket. Franklin did this and I LOVED it!

I didn't teach the 5th grader how to steal the ball. He watched and learned. One particular game he had the other team's PG and one of the best players in the city in tears.

Lander has the ability. I know he has shown the IQ at earlier ages. Galloway has that same mental toughness. I really like the potential for Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and TJD. Rob will one of the 5 early but this team has room to grow quickly.

When he was in high school I was impressed with his athleticism. I don't think it is a surprise he would hit the weight room and see visible results. He's just been blessed with good genetics. Franklin just needs confidence and playing time.

 

[T.M.P.]

Can’t speak for Roth or Nick, but Jordan spent a ton of time shooting. He spent minimal time doing sandpit and weights.

Rob should spend all his spare time shooting. Those three that couldn’t guard a chair have never airballed a ft in their life and take advantage of free points in a game where taking advantage of those opportunities directly effects the outcome of said game. We currently suck so bad at those free opportunities that it will no doubt cost us multiple losses.

Iowa and Wisconsin don’t hit the weights like IU. They also don’t shoot like IU. There is some correlation between our shooting and our work out ethic. We are more physical than most, better at d, but much worse on offense and shooting. I don’t think that can be argued at this point.

He also spent a lot of time in the weight room as did every player on Crean's teams. Didn't affect the shooting one bit.

Iowa and wisc eh? ... Hulls, Zeis, and Roth ... Should have added St Mary's.

lmao.. there's a pattern there do you see it? It's almost blinding....

Plus you have no clue how many hours our players or there's in comparison spend on shooting vs conditioning. Unless someone has access to the actual practice schedules of both teams and each player's routine, you're just guessing.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Iowa and wisc eh? ... Hulls, Zeis, and Roth ... Should have added St Mary's.

lmao.. there's a pattern there do you see it? It's almost blinding....

⛄

 

[Lucy01]

⛄

Dull

 

[fkfootball]

Zeisloft was an OK defender. He just didn’t have much bounce.

 

[meenie]

You need to read the book Pistol. It talks about all of the drills Press made Pete do. One was Press would have Pete lie down in the backseat of the car with the car door open. He would have Pete dribble the ball outside the door as he drove. He would speed up as he was dribbling. They would do his right hand for a specific distance, then turn around and do the left. They did that for hours. Also, he made him carry a ball with him at all times. Good read.

 

[ORG]

I liked Franklin last year. He did a lot well for a freshman. Shooting can improve but it is rare that defensive instinct and overall basketball IQ would improve drastically. He has a good instinct and knows where to position himself on D. If Franklin makes a mistake, watch him make a play on the other end of the court to atone for that mistake. He doesn't compound the mistake by fouling or overplaying, but he contributes something to reduce the harm.

Too many times, a player like Devonte Green will turn the ball over or take a stupid shot and point to themselves "my bad" while the other team makes a layup or nails a 3. A player like Franklin hustles back to take real accountability. Maybe it is the way we were raised to play the game in Indiana.

I saw something Sunday that reminded me of the best 5th grader I coached. The 5th grader would watch the ball handler and time his steals so as the ball was dribbled and hit the floor, he basically took the ball off the floor on the bounce and drove to the basket. Franklin did this and I LOVED it!

I didn't teach the 5th grader how to steal the ball. He watched and learned. One particular game he had the other team's PG and one of the best players in the city in tears.

Lander has the ability. I know he has shown the IQ at earlier ages. Galloway has that same mental toughness. I really like the potential for Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and TJD. Rob will one of the 5 early but this team has room to grow quickly.

To me he is not flashy but he is becoming SOLID at about everything and he is starting to become not just a good defender but a "lock-down"defender. Time will tell if he reaches that level.

 

[ORG]

Calling the plethora of basketball conditioning jockeys "professionals" is your problem here.

Half those guys are playground handlers with keys to a gym and a nice mix tape, or whatever it is called these days.

I think a quick study of Pete Marovich will help you understand the other point of view.

Also, I don't think anyone says strength hurts you. What hurts is spending all the time that would enable basketball skill improvement, on strength training instead. Guys who can't shoot need to be able to shoot before they need to look like Arnold.
Don't show up as a sophomore with muscles and another year of 27% outside shooting. That's the gist.

Like just about everything in life, there needs to be balance. IMHO it' not one or the other.