What Happened To Detroit?

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I went to the IU/Michigan game this weekend.

It was Michigan homecoming, so we rejected the chance to get gouged in Ann Arbor and stayed in the Novi/Livonia area, and "toured" Detroit Saturday morning.

It was worse than I expected.
Did the UAW contracts drive jobs out?
Did NAFTA drive jobs out?
WHAT really made that place become abandoned like it was?

Miles and miles of abandoned homes, businesses and churches.
Saw several high rise buildings - 15-20 stories - completely abandoned.

Too many blocks to count.

 

[Sope Creek]

Mix a big dose of complacency, neglect and even malfeasance from . . .

a domestic auto industry oligopoly with a healthy dose of competition from smart, technologically advanced and market-savvy foreign automakers, and you get Detroit today.

GM, Ford, Chrysler, AMC . . . all of them had this market all to themselves and blew it because they saw US consumers as a captive market to exploit rather than a robust consumer market to serve. Japanese and German auto makers came in, gave those same US consumers what they were looking for, and you get Detroit today.

That said, economic obsolescence from business failure is part of the capitalistic system . . . if that's the case, the system is working just fine in Detroit, and giving what are now economically infeasible areas significantly lower prices. Those lower prices can encourage investment and redirection of those areas to something more economically viable than the Detroit the Big 3 and Little 1 left behind . . . .

Detroit will be back. It just won't be the same Detroit, no matter what the Chrysler ads (approved by management selected by Chrysler's Italian parent) would have you believe.

 

[davegolf]

Re: Mix a big dose of complacency, neglect and even malfeasance from . . .


I pray that Detroit will return but until labor contracts are grounded in a cost benefit analysis the comeback will be short lived. Until the benefit package and certain wages in the auto industry get returned to some facsimile of reasonableness the auto industry in America is doomed to have continued problems. The ability to reform the unconscionable is doomed for failure with the current Union leadership is willing to concede to a problem which will not happen. It is not all Union labor's problem as management wages are just as obscene. .

 

[zeke4ahs]

And supposedly it's gotten better

Just read an article recently, in Time, about the remarkable economic resurgence in Detroit. The author had visited a year ago and returned to notable changes. Talks about the booming downtown area with bustling restaurants, lofts, boutiques, and renovated office buildings. Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert, relocated his company headquarters in downtown Detroit and had created 6,500 new jobs downtown and bought up tens of thousands of square feet of real estate. Evidentially, they are now working on how to spread the prosperity to the neighborhoods and suburbs. Lots of just out of college kids are living downtown, so the hope is that eventually as they get older and have a family. The suburbs will be renovated and be more attractive . Who knows of that will work, but at least it's a start.

 

[mjvcaj]

Except two failures were prevented

:That said, economic obsolescence from business failure is part of the capitalistic system . . . if that's the case, the system is working just fine in Detroit,:

If that were the case, we wouldn't have a dismissively corrupt GM or floundering Chrysler.

 

[mjvcaj]

There are two fundamental problems right now with the unions

1) Long-term labor costs (health, pension, etc.) are unsustainable in a competitive environment.

2) Updated performance measurement needs to be implemented to rid the automakers and unions of leech-like workers that do not contribute to productivity. Similarly, proper performance measurement and clawback provisions need to be attached to incompetent management at the top.

Short-term costs are under control for the most part.

 

[DougS]

thats good news, but....

It kinda sounds like trickle-down economics! Don't tell Hillary.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

There Was Some Visible New Construction WAAAY Downtown

within 4-5 blocks of the river.

But get a quarter mile north, and its a horror show up to 6 Mile Road.

Capitalists with capital can have all the real estate they can buy - but the question whether they can do anything with it.

 

[Yougotme]

Re: Except two failures were prevented

Exactly - and that's because we really don't have a capitalistic system in America. We have a capitalistic-like system but with extreme government interference, particularly in GM and, to a lesser extent, Chrysler. There are far too many protected monopolies, crony capitalism, political paybacks and over all poorly executed government interference (not all interference is bad, but most of it as implemented today is).

GM would be history by now if not for an anti-capitalistic bent by the federal government.

 

[mjvcaj]

The entire metro area experienced a significant decline...

post-2000 in population. Not sure when this Time article measured the census, but even as of May 2014, downtown Detroit was losing people while the suburbs stabilized.

There are a significant number of talented Michiganders (UM and MSU) that head to Chicago.

 

[gold89]

it began in the 60's and became accentuated after the 68 riots

The riots were very bad, destructive and divisive. It caused further white flight. As for autos, I dony think there are many plants in Detroit proper. Not sure there ever was, but some like the Packard plant have been abandoned for decades and decades. The housing deteriorated, taxes went uncollected and corruption was rampant from the duly elected Democrats that have run the city since about 68. Crime was rampant for many years. Now it takes 45 minutes for a 911 call to be answered. 6,000 tax foreclosures were sold on one day last week to one buyer with a dubious reputation. So the cycle may continue. The new mayor is promising and some business is returning. I practice law there a few times per week. Lots of unsavory characters there to deal with.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Re: There are two fundamental problems right now with the unions

My biggest problem with unions is that they knowingly back bad workers. I know many public school teachers, for example, and most are very good but 20% of them should never be allow anywhere near a classroom. However, with the teacher's union in place they are never going anywhere no matter what.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Picking a nit

economic obsolescence from business failure is a part of any economic system, not just a capitalistic system. I don't think a communistic collective system would save the CRT tube manufacturing business.

What happened to Detroit cannot be so easily dismissed by saying the US auto industry was a dysfunctional oligopoly. There is much more to it. The US auto industry has relocated; and is strong. Michigan is not in the top 5 auto-producing states. There are a number of reasons for this having to do with social forces, economic conditions, taxes, and other governmental mandates and regulations.

 

[zeke4ahs]

that's just not true

If an administrator is willing to do the paperwork, he / she can get rid of a poor teacher. It happens all the time. The problem is an administrator that's too lazy to put in the time and effort to document .
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[dbmhoosier]

It is true.

Even the notoriously liberal LA Times agrees [/URL]with me.



This post was edited on 11/3 8:43 AM by dbmhoosier

This post was edited on 11/3 8:45 AM by dbmhoosier

link

 

[ARMZP]

Verlander had a bad year. Nathan sucked and the hitting

was streaky.

I am still pissed about it.

 

[mjvcaj]

It is incredibly difficult to fire a tenured teacher

Same as it is any tenured professional (policeman, etc.). This extends to the collegiate level where you constantly find professors that have no business being paid what they are and "teaching" kids.

 

[Noodle]

^^^^^{hands clapping}^^^^^^ nm


nm

 

[AEgley]

Blows your mind doesn't it... they could film an apocolyptic movie there...

what a shame... don't even bother looking at pictures of central station... it's sad...

 

[Sope Creek]

What experience/expertise do you have . . .

with the administrative process applicable to terminating a teacher? Or a police officer, for that matter?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

nice to know that you guys have solved the root of our economic issues.

workers make too much, and are too hard to fire.

so i guess if we just pay everybody less, and fire a lot more people, all our problems are solved.


we are sooo lucky to have the conservatives to help us with our problems.








This post was edited on 11/3 6:23 PM by i'vegotwinners