West Virginia v EPA

[stollcpa]

One more blockbuster Supreme Court decision could still be coming even after Friday's abortion ruling

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/one...still-be-coming-after-fridays-abortion-ruling

 

[jet812]

One more blockbuster Supreme Court decision could still be coming even after Friday's abortion ruling

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/one...still-be-coming-after-fridays-abortion-ruling

Sweet…

 

[Noodle]

Sweet…

Careful what you wish for.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

One more blockbuster Supreme Court decision could still be coming even after Friday's abortion ruling

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/one...still-be-coming-after-fridays-abortion-ruling

"West Virginia vs. the EPA asks whether important policies that impact the lives of all Americans should be made by unelected D.C. bureaucrats or by Congress. This SCOTUS could well decide that ruling by executive agency fiat is no longer acceptable".
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by "unelected DC bureaucrats", are they talking about the EPA, or our current dark money installed SCOTUS majority?

 

[stollcpa]

"West Virginia vs. the EPA asks whether important policies that impact the lives of all Americans should be made by unelected D.C. bureaucrats or by Congress. This SCOTUS could well decide that ruling by executive agency fiat is no longer acceptable".
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by "unelected DC bureaucrats", are they talking about the EPA, or our current dark money installed SCOTUS majority?

Is that “dark money” the same money the Biden Crime Family has been collecting for years?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Is that “dark money” the same money the Biden Crime Family has been collecting for years?

some technically probably no. some maybe yes.

but all probably "same as" anyway.

and much of Biden's probably wasn't "dark" and legal, but rather open and legal.

all dark and open legalized and given it's blessing by past SCOTUS btw.



just far less harmful in Biden's case, as Biden's power is far far more limited and temporary, and far less potential for real harm than this SCOTUS, and for the dark money that gave us this SCOTUS.

Biden is corrupt as hell, but his power is very limited and temporary, and most can be blocked.

as can most good he can do be blocked. and blocked by dark money at that.

SCOTUS's power can't be blocked, or even challenged. and is for decades with no recourse.

and absent one party taking control of the house and senate more so than in at least the past 25 yrs, or possibly more, SCOTUS now IS the govt as far as law and policy, rather than just day to day administration.

dark money legalized and enabled by past SCOTUS.

which this SCOTUS will possibly/probably soon double down and expand on.

 

[stollcpa]

some technically probably no. some maybe yes.

but all probably "same as" anyway.

and much of Biden's probably wasn't "dark" and legal, but rather open and legal.

all dark and open legalized and given it's blessing by past SCOTUS btw.



just far less harmful in Biden's case, as Biden's power is far far more limited and temporary, and far less potential for real harm than this SCOTUS, and for the dark money that gave us this SCOTUS.

Biden is corrupt as hell, but his power is very limited and temporary, and most can be blocked.

as can most good he can do be blocked. and blocked by dark money at that.

SCOTUS's power can't be blocked, or even challenged. and is for decades with no recourse.

and absent one party taking control of the house and senate more so than in at least the past 25 yrs, or possibly more, SCOTUS now IS the govt as far as law and policy, rather than just day to day administration.

dark money legalized and enabled by past SCOTUS.

which this SCOTUS will possibly/probably soon double down and expand on.

The “big guy” should quit lying about his 10% from Hunter’s businesses (if you want to call them business) and expenses Hunter paid for him if it’s all legal.

I think all the justices are selfless great people. They’re getting paid far less than they could make in the business world.

 

[larsIU]

I'm not really aware of this case. Hopefully some others could chime in.

However, you want Congress to make rules about clean water? Bureaucracies exist for reason. Are some them run poorly? Yes. Is is possible for them to overreach? Sure. Does Congress currently have the power to overrule the EPA's decision on this program?

That's the question I don't have an answer to. However, if they do why is this in court? Is this just another example of Congress dithering?

 

[stollcpa]

I'm not really aware of this case. Hopefully some others could chime in.

However, you want Congress to make rules about clean water? Bureaucracies exist for reason. Are some them run poorly? Yes. Is is possible for them to overreach? Sure. Does Congress currently have the power to overrule the EPA's decision on this program?

That's the question I don't have an answer to. However, if they do why is this in court? Is this just another example of Congress dithering?

Congress can’t make my client whole who experienced 3/4 black suburbans with EPA agents pulling into their business one day based on a lie told by a disgruntled fired employee. Thousands of dollars of legal fees and wasted employee hours later they eventually went away with no issue.

 

[larsIU]

Congress can’t make my client whole who experienced 3/4 black suburbans with EPA agents pulling into their business one day based on a lie told by a disgruntled fired employee. Thousands of dollars of legal fees and wasted employee hours later they eventually went away with no issue.

LIke I said, overreach.

But these agencies exist to complete the mission provided to them by elected representatives. They create regulations, etc based on that mission. It's not perfect but the EPA, in your scenario, acted on information provided to them by another party. We could always fund them properly so they are able to do the investigations necessary to not have the scenario above (of course, I have no idea what they were told so who knows).

So, what's the end game here? Eliminate all federal agencies tasked with education, housing, environmental protections, securities, treasury, transportation, etc. etc. etc.?

And have Congress pass laws surrounding administration? Or would Congress provide administration of these often very technical regulations, etc?

 

[bawlmer]

LIke I said, overreach.

But these agencies exist to complete the mission provided to them by elected representatives. They create regulations, etc based on that mission. It's not perfect but the EPA, in your scenario, acted on information provided to them by another party. We could always fund them properly so they are able to do the investigations necessary to not have the scenario above (of course, I have no idea what they were told so who knows).

So, what's the end game here? Eliminate all federal agencies tasked with education, housing, environmental protections, securities, treasury, transportation, etc. etc. etc.?

And have Congress pass laws surrounding administration? Or would Congress provide administration of these often very technical regulations, etc?

Today's GOP would have us headed full steam toward anarchy. That's why it's so important we're all able to carry guns.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Congress can’t make my client whole who experienced 3/4 black suburbans with EPA agents pulling into their business one day based on a lie told by a disgruntled fired employee. Thousands of dollars of legal fees and wasted employee hours later they eventually went away with no issue.

make your case. what happened?

what was the lie. why was the EPA there? how did it result in thousands in legal fees and wasted employee hours?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I'm not really aware of this case. Hopefully some others could chime in.

However, you want Congress to make rules about clean water? Bureaucracies exist for reason. Are some them run poorly? Yes. Is is possible for them to overreach? Sure. Does Congress currently have the power to overrule the EPA's decision on this program?

That's the question I don't have an answer to. However, if they do why is this in court? Is this just another example of Congress dithering?

There is a legal morass known as “The Non-Understandable Undefeated Chevron Doctrine.” (That might be a paraphrase I made up.) it governs when a regulation promulgated by an administrative agency will or will not be enforced/enforceable. So the suggestion that DC bureaucrats can just make up rules is a big stretch. But agency rule-making and agency enforcement of their rules is long and expensive and frustrating and subject to abuse. So if this case, which i have not read or followed, can change any of either for the better, yay,

Why does it take so long to process immigrants into the US? Administrative agency rules and processes.

Same with EPA.

Once you have a rule, you need a building and a staff and some budgets and some politicians and time and money.

Probably not a helpful answer. Sorry.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

The “big guy” should quit lying about his 10% from Hunter’s businesses (if you want to call them business) and expenses Hunter paid for him if it’s all legal.

I think all the justices are selfless great people. They’re getting paid far less than they could make in the business world.

i notice you never denied it's legality.

and i don't think you realize how much SCOTUS justices can make on the side, on top of their quarter mil a yr salary.

or how much they can make off their stock portfolio, off cases they rule on.


that said, you can thank SCOTUS for both open and behind closed doors bribery being legal.

and the instant it was legalized, it's occurring en masse was guaranteed.

if you allow govt to be bought, 100% chance it will be.

they allowed it and gave it their blessing.

at that moment our govt's outright purchase was guaranteed and inevitable.

that wasn't an unforeseen consequence. it was the goal all along.

 

[stollcpa]

make your case. what happened?

what was the lie. why was the EPA there? how did it result in thousands in legal fees and wasted employee hours?

Large company with several manufacturing activities within 500 yards or so to large creek.

They came in like the FBI raiding a terrorist operation. Client paid thousands in profession fees for tests and attorneys all based on a lie from a disgruntled employee. Instead of common sense investigated every square foot of the client facilities. Zero fines or issues when they went away.

 

[bawlmer]

There is a legal morass known as “The Non-Understandable Undefeated Chevron Doctrine.” (That might be a paraphrase I made up.) it governs when a regulation promulgated by an administrative agency will or will not be enforced/enforceable. So the suggestion that DC bureaucrats can just make up rules is a big stretch. But agency rule-making and agency enforcement of their rules is long and expensive and frustrating and subject to abuse. So if this case, which i have not read or followed, can change any of either for the better, yay,

Why does it take so long to process immigrants into the US? Administrative agency rules and processes.

Same with EPA.

Once you have a rule, you need a building and a staff and some budgets and some politicians and time and money.

Probably not a helpful answer. Sorry.

Good summary of the general situation. But as someone living down-wind from West Virginia who has to power-wash grime off my deck multiple times a year, I think I'll cheer for the EPA.

 

[larsIU]

There is a legal morass known as “The Non-Understandable Undefeated Chevron Doctrine.” (That might be a paraphrase I made up.) it governs when a regulation promulgated by an administrative agency will or will not be enforced/enforceable. So the suggestion that DC bureaucrats can just make up rules is a big stretch. But agency rule-making and agency enforcement of their rules is long and expensive and frustrating and subject to abuse. So if this case, which i have not read or followed, can change any of either for the better, yay,

Why does it take so long to process immigrants into the US? Administrative agency rules and processes.

Same with EPA.

Once you have a rule, you need a building and a staff and some budgets and some politicians and time and money.

Probably not a helpful answer. Sorry.

Yeah, I'm not really well versed on how the big alphabet agencies work in the real world. I only deal with a couple of them (CFPB, SEC) and that's as a 3rd party to banks, etc.

But without rules we have anarchy or robber barons. Neither seem preferable.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Large company with several manufacturing activities within 500 yards or so to large creek.

They came in like the FBI raiding a terrorist operation. Client paid thousands in profession fees for tests and attorneys all based on a lie from a disgruntled employee. Instead of common sense investigated every square foot of the client facilities. Zero fines or issues when they went away.

you didn't answer "what was the lie".

what did the "disgruntled employee" tell the EPA?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Congress can’t make my client whole who experienced 3/4 black suburbans with EPA agents pulling into their business one day based on a lie told by a disgruntled fired employee. Thousands of dollars of legal fees and wasted employee hours later they eventually went away with no issue.

There is no accountability.......no personal responsibility.......because the sheer size & scope of the federal government makes it so.

 

[mrhighlife]

There is corruption everywhere. No doubt at the EPA as well. However We know that having an EPA is better than not having one. History, and not distant History, tells us that. Overall the EPA has been extremely successful and our economy and output has been just fine.

 

[stollcpa]

you didn't answer "what was the lie".

what did the "disgruntled employee" tell the EPA?

A picture he made himself purporting to show glue going down a drain. He created the picture and it was an area he was responsible for.

No consequences for what he did.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

A picture he made himself purporting to show glue going down a drain. He created the picture and it was an area he was responsible for.

No consequences for what he did.

No consequences? Really? I find it hard to fathom he wouldn't be in serious trouble for attempting to defraud the feds. They don't take that shit lightly.

And why doesn't his former employer sue him to recover the damages?

 

[T.M.P.]

Is that “dark money” the same money the Biden Crime Family has been collecting for years?

Why are you pandering to idiot hillbillies ... do you really need that much attention?

 

[larsIU]

No consequences? Really? I find it hard to fathom he wouldn't be in serious trouble for attempting to defraud the feds. They don't take that shit lightly.

And why doesn't his former employer sue him to recover the damages?

Sounds like a "f*ck around and find out" lesson

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Short TL/DR version of opinion - “Congress, not EPA, must do this.“

 

[TomEric4756]

NOx, SOx, Soot (Carbon Black) and Fly Ash have expansive literature (often confounded by tobacco smoke) as causes for lung cancer. These are the original exhaust species regulated by the CAA, due to their harm to human health. Coal smoke stacks built since the late 70’s have (expensive) scrubbers to minimize these emissions. (When the coal boiler burners are converted to natural gas the scrubbers can be turned off (open flames lack the pressure to make much NOx))

In comparison, CO2 does not cause lung cancer, and is not considered a poison (unlike say ammonia (NH3)). No one will die today, tomorrow or next week from the exposure to CO2 created as a byproduct to fossil fuel combustion. The externalities (personal damages) of CO2‘s contribution to climate change will not be experienced anytime soon.

I think West Virginia [v. EPA] is well decided compared to the CAA’s goals of improved Air and Water Quality that has a direct improvement on the health of US Citizens and residents (today). Less CO2 won’t make anyone healthier in the future. (But in 50 years there will be famine from recurring summer droughts … is an emotional appeal at best).

California residents are stuck with CARB and Cal. EPA, and AB 32. As state agencies, they do have the authority to ban the sale of fossil fuel vehicles… until such legal matters and regulations are repealed by the California Legislature. (California residents are tired of paying premium electricity rates for summers full of brownouts. … They can repeal specific laws during a general election … It may happen some day).

 

[stollcpa]

No consequences? Really? I find it hard to fathom he wouldn't be in serious trouble for attempting to defraud the feds. They don't take that shit lightly.

And why doesn't his former employer sue him to recover the damages?

For the most part Mennonites don’t sue.

Feds never questioned original employee report. They found plenty to harass my client about. In the end there were no fines. Just legal fees and employee time dealing with investigation.

Had floater surgery on retina today so excuse any typos. Not seeing real well with one eye which also needs floater surgery in a month if everything okay when patch comes off eye operated on today.

 

[Spartans9312]

Short TL/DR version of opinion - “Congress, not EPA, must do this.“

Lawsuits against FERC for exorbitant delays in natgas and crude oil projects in 3,2,1…

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

For the most part Mennonites don’t sue.

Feds never questioned original employee report. They found plenty to harass my client about. In the end there were no fines. Just legal fees and employee time dealing with investigation.

Had floater surgery on retina today so excuse any typos. Not seeing real well with one eye which also needs floater surgery in a month if everything okay when patch comes off eye operated on today.

Here's to a speedy recovery for this eye, as well as the other.

 

[Spartans9312]

Tlaib: “Fascist SCOTUS guts the EPA’s ability to regulate carbon emissions, fight climate change. The federal government will be restricted from regulating anything of significance in the absence of a clear Congressional directive to do so.”

Legislative authority is one of the enumerated powers of Congress.

SCOTUS’ ruling - far from being fascist - actually returns lawmaking to the seat of the people’s power…

Congress.

One would think as a Representative serving in said Congress, she would comprehend this.

 

[stollcpa]

Here's to a speedy recovery for this eye, as well as the other.

Thanks very much. I have to admit letting a surgeon mess with your eye creates some anxiety.

 

[IUINSB]

Good summary of the general situation. But as someone living down-wind from West Virginia who has to power-wash grime off my deck multiple times a year, I think I'll cheer for the EPA.

As a former resident of the Region, I'll agree.

 

[Gladeskat]

Tlaib: “Fascist SCOTUS guts the EPA’s ability to regulate carbon emissions, fight climate change. The federal government will be restricted from regulating anything of significance in the absence of a clear Congressional directive to do so.”

Legislative authority is one of the enumerated powers of Congress.

SCOTUS’ ruling - far from being fascist - actually returns lawmaking to the seat of the people’s power…

Congress.

One would think as a Representative serving in said Congress, she would comprehend this.

Unfortunately, that's not the best place to send these decisions as many are heavily funded by polluting industries and know nothing about, or outright hate environmental science. Decision-making has been taken away from environmental experts and handed over to fully owned puppets for large industry who themselves mislead the public with heavy funded misinformation campaigns.

A huge blow to solving serious environmental problems that we're facing, particularly considering our population size. We've made a concerted effort to hand over power to industry and not protect the people, IMO. However, it will be interesting to see how the public responds to this change. Pressure will have to come from outside government, but can they contest billion-dollar misinformation campaigns and millions of dollars thrown at Congress by major polluting industries. What I fear is Congress blocking or gutting programs that are important for environmental protection.

 

[TommyCracker]

Yeah these agencies are supposed to be non political agencies for a reason, so let's neuter them and send it down to the most corrupt and politically biased branches we have that struggles to pass the most basic and needed legislation because of it.

What an absolutely dumb move from this court.

In the past couple of weeks this conservative court has made awful decisions on guns, personal privacy and climate change with absolutely zero fvcks given (or attempted to explain) for the actual health of the citizenry.

The courts are supposed to protect the people from the greed of the world.

People are going to get hurt, sick and some will die because of these aggressively stupid decisions.

So yeah, if you believe there isn't more to come you've got your head completely up your ass. They have been pretty clear where they intend to go (see Desantis and his constant meddling laws or the Texas GOP who doesn't recognize Biden because of 'voter fraud' and stated in their platform that homosexuality is an abnormal 'choice' and shouldn't have any legal protections).

That's were they want to go folks.

 

[mrhighlife]

Yeah these agencies are supposed to be non political agencies for a reason, so let's neuter them and send it down to the most corrupt and politically biased branches we have that struggles to pass the most basic and needed legislation because of it.

What an absolutely dumb move from this court.

In the past couple of weeks this conservative court has made awful decisions on guns, personal privacy and climate change with absolutely zero fvcks given (or attempted to explain) for the actual health of the citizenry.

The courts are supposed to protect the people from the greed of the world.

People are going to get hurt, sick and some will die because of these aggressively stupid decisions.

So yeah, if you believe there isn't more to come you've got your head completely up your ass. They have been pretty clear where they intend to go (see Desantis and his constant meddling laws or the Texas GOP who doesn't recognize Biden because of 'voter fraud' and stated in their platform that homosexuality is an abnormal 'choice' and shouldn't have any legal protections).

That's were they want to go folks.

This. (Except for Desantis. Hes seems like hes actually been ok on the environment front.)

Environmental issues affect everyone. A nonpartisan group with a singular purpose is needed. The EPA needs to be cleaned up for sure but you dont burn down your house because of a few mice. We know for a fact what us humans do when left unchecked. We are greedy, dirty and destructive. At every level. If the EPA is gutted we will over pollute and over hunt/fish. It's a fact not some "liberal" theory.

And again. Since the inception of the EPA our economy has grown more than it did in the entire previous 190+ years. The stifling economy argument is horseshit.

 

[mrhighlife]

Tlaib: “Fascist SCOTUS guts the EPA’s ability to regulate carbon emissions, fight climate change. The federal government will be restricted from regulating anything of significance in the absence of a clear Congressional directive to do so.”

Legislative authority is one of the enumerated powers of Congress.

SCOTUS’ ruling - far from being fascist - actually returns lawmaking to the seat of the people’s power…

Congress.

One would think as a Representative serving in said Congress, she would comprehend this.

To think Congress who is bought and paid for will do right by OUR environment is incredibly naive.

The list of positive regulations the EPA has brought about is miles long. This list of environmentally positive legislation enacted by Congress could be counted on one hand.

We the people are greedy and destructive.

 

[mrhighlife]

The “big guy” should quit lying about his 10% from Hunter’s businesses (if you want to call them business) and expenses Hunter paid for him if it’s all legal.

I think all the justices are selfless great people. They’re getting paid far less than they could make in the business world.

Hasn't Biden released all his tax returns from the previous several years?

Wouldn't any payments like you claim be in there somehow? Obviously not listed as "Ukraine bribes" but millions of dollars cant just appear. Or do you accuse the President of tax evasion too?

 

[Crayfish57]

Hasn't Biden released all his tax returns from the previous several years?

Wouldn't any payments like you claim be in there somehow? Obviously not listed as "Ukraine bribes" but millions of dollars cant just appear. Or do you accuse the President of tax evasion too?

There seemed to be like 5 million unaccounted for that we never heard much more about. Apparently you are accusing Trump of tax evasion so why should Biden be exempt ?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

There seemed to be like 5 million unaccounted for that we never heard much more about

They just went radio silent on that one didn't they.

 

[dbmhoosier]

What's this case Killary is freaking out about? Sounds pretty scary, could be worse than 9/11, Pearl Harbor, and the Civil War combined.