Ah yes. That world famous Officiating Crew of Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe.
Well played game, screwed by the refs 2x in the last minute
- Thread starter demunn
- Start date
Nebraska has no front line. Their center is an unknown freshman who played forward last year in HS.
Mack, Cheatum & Burke over Rob, Al, Green
Stats are for each 40M of BT play:
Mack: 13.2 pts, 7.8 assists, 2.9 TOs, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, shoots 37% on 2s, 35% on 3s, 60% on FTs
Cheatam: 15.7, 2.1 assists, 1.7 TOs, 4.1 rebs, 1.2 steals. Shoots .47/.33/.68
Burke: 17.3 pts, ,1.9 assists, 2.2 TOs, 4.5 rebs, 1.6 steals, Shoots .49/.29/.58
Rob: 11.3 pts, 4.8 assists, 3.3 TOs, 3.7 rebs, 2.1 steals Shoots: .40/.34/.71
Green: 17.8 pts, 3.4 assists. 3.2 TOs, 6.1 rebs, .8 steals. Shoots .28/.35/.78
Al: 13.8 Pts, 3.3 assists, 2.9 TOs, 3.0 rebs, .8 steals Shoots: .39/.36/.80
Plus Green from Neb is better than our 4th guy, Franklin.
edit: Average for each 40 minutes played, BT only:
Nebraska: 15.4 pts, 3.8 assists, 2.3 TOs, 4.7 rebs, 1.3 steals
Indiana: 14.3 pts, 3.8 assists, 3.1 TOs, 4.3 rebs, 1.2 steals
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And that’s how you end up with a 7-22 record. Saying Nebraska has a better back court than IU is one of the most reprehensible things I’ve heard on this board. Unless you think IU has a top 5 front court in the country (they don’t), you’re not giving IU’s front court enough credit. You’re not an NCAAT team with the “worst back court” in the B10.
See my post just before yours. I'd take Mack over Rob, Cheatam over Green. Burke v. Al is a tougher one, but when you consider how bad Al is defensively, and getting only 3 rebounds every 40 minutes, I'd take Burke as well.
To each their own. Nebraska plays an entirely different offense than IU and stats are inflated to a much higher usage. There’s not a chance in hell IU is playing in the NCAAT with Nebraska’s trio of guards. They’re terrible. Look at their record.
lol ....schooled....no facts, just bs. You'd have a better shot with NW's guards. They really only have 2. But again, like Nebraska, they have no front line. That's why they're terrible, not because of their guards.
As I said, to each their own. They aren’t 7-22 because “they have no front court”, just like IU isn’t 18-11 with “the worst back court in the B10”. I’ll trust my eyes and over 40+ years of coaching experience at various levels on this one. Basketball is a two-way game, Nebraska’s guards are TERRIBLE.
I agree on all 3 of those, but I thought throughout the game we got pretty decent treatment from the refs for being on the road. They let lots of stuff go that they sometimes call. Just frustrating. We played pretty well and showed some heart, but still too many careless plays and possessions. But to me, what lost us the game, yet again, is our inability (mostly our guards) to get in front of their man and stop drives. I've never seen a team so awful at this basic defensive concept. Especially when we generally play off our guys to avoid giving up drives. Our guys have got to move their feet and get in front of their man.
The replay makes it clear that the trip wasn’t a foul. No controversy at all on that play.
The trip was 50/50 but not a call I’d expect an official to make in that juncture of the game nor a call I’d expect to get on the road. However, granting Illinois a TO w/o possession was terrible, especially considering IU had the arrow. Still, if TJD makes his FT’s we’re talking about something else.
The trip definitely wasn’t a foul, the timeout and what constitutes possession was iffy, the free throws have to go down. We played hard and just came up short against a pretty good team.
So instead of being an a-hole troll I'll give you an honest response on this I 100% think this has been going on pretty much during the existence of college basketball. I think there are a ton of factors in play. I think it boils down to what teams can make the NCAA the most money so in a game where the bottom feeder can knock off MSU and drop them from a 1 seed to a 4 seed do I think that game is going to be called fairly? Hell no.
Look at college football it's even more obvious now that we have instant replay and we still get very cut and dry easy calls my 4 year old could watch and get right.
This stat nerd guru did "home court advantage" about 10 years ago now I'd say and he basically calculated disparity home/away across every team in the big ten and several teams had huge disparities while other teams virtually had none.
Now you have the argument "well what about style of play". I've always thought that was a bit dishonest. Let's be honest Bruce Weber was seen as a clown and annoyed the hell out of the refs and got no respect. Pretty much the anti-Izzo.
Back to style of play game after game I'd see players "attack the hoop" and not get calls. Guess what? They stopped attacking the hoop. I'd see a MSU team drive the paint on 3 or 4 defenders and get the anticipation call. Guess what happens? They keep attacking.
Purdue at Mackey is an abomination the way they let them reach and grab there. Another guy did illinois specific free throw disparities I could post some time that showed Illinois only had a slight home court the last decade against a couple teams while Iowa had the worst there and at Illinois. I get Illinois wasn't a monster that decade and that plays a part but the numbers are still kind of crazy.
To me it seems the "favorites" come in a few different ways. Iconic coaches like Tom "look at me look at me look at me" Izzo. Painter has become a fixture at Purdue and Fran, however the hell people tolerate him, has become a fixture at Iowa city.
The other issue is recruiting, recruiting rankings, and preseason expectations. Sometimes the perception sort of becomes the reality for some of these officials "oh this guy is a stud that attacks they'll have to foul him" I mean these guys aren't above preconceived notions and biased.
Personally I didn't think Frazier fouled on that one shot but I have no clue in hell how we got a jump ball from the trip (I thought we had the possession arrow anyways but I'm not positive) and if we're being completely honest it looked like Trent may have fouled on that last shot but they aren't going to call that. I don't know what the hell he was thinking there.
Illinois has what I consider to be the most exciting guard prospect to come to Illinois since Dee Brown in Andre Curbelo. Plays with Dee's energy and has Deron's passing ability. He's just a different animal I haven't seen in a long time. And Miller at SG. So the expectation will likely be Illinois is going to be good next year and I think they'll get some benefit of the doubt stuff we definitely wouldn't have even last year.
I've watched the video a number of times and tried to research the rule--it doesn't seem clear but could be unintentional tripping.
Although it's hard to tell, it looks like the defensive player is still moving, I am not sure why that wouldn't be the same as a blocking foul ala a hip check?
Thoughts?
You left out the shooting percentages, and your stats don’t show anything about the defensive side of the ball.
How is a trip not a foul? Phin had possession and the defender came up too quickly and got his legs in too close and tripped him. Doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, althought that would make it an easier call. It might not be called everytime, but it is a foul. Different situation if possession isn't established, but that was a foul that didn't get called.
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Watch the replay. The Illinois kid’s foot doesn’t move while Phinesee’s does. The trip wasn’t a foul because the Illinois kid didn’t initiate the contact. It was the right no call.
FIne, then you can't give IL a time out because the ref quick fired on the call before the IL player had control of the ball. Jump ball, possession arrow IU. down 2 with 4.3 seconds and ball out inside half court. Play to tie or win. Instead....homer call, game over.
Just because his foot doesn't move doesn't mean it's not a foul. It was incidental contact obviously, no one stating he intentionally tripped Phinisee, but you can definitely make a case that he impeded Phinisee's movement. It's not a foul I'd expect the officials to make in that instance, especially on the road, but I've seen much less called.
and his foot & leg were extendd well out of normal range, basically between Rob's feet. Just because his foot is 'set' doesn't mean he's entitled to the space between Rob's legs.
I thought the timeout was iffy, but the trip definitely wasn’t a foul. Tough play for IU, but it was properly officiated.
the Time out was not properly officiated. Don't even go there. Replay showed otherwise.
Impeding his movement isn’t a foul. That’s a regular occurrence of playing good defense.
Being out of normal range isn’t against the rules at all. If anything, RP should’ve gathered himself before making such an aggressive and somewhat out of control move.
Lol. Impeding the movement of a player is most definitely a foul, especially with the foot or body. What on Earth are you talking about?
No it isn’t. He didn’t grab him and he didn’t initiate contact. RP did that. It clearly wasn’t a foul. Watch the replay.
I've seen the replay. Phinisee is entitled to the same space as the defender. The literal Freedom of Movement rule in basketball
Rule 10-7, article 1 states, “A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.
Doesn't matter if he moves or not, it's not a charge. He got up too close and his foot ends up in between RPs legs when he had possession. I replayed it 3-4x because I was surprised the announcers didn't at least question it, as they said RP just lost his footing. Could be called a trip or a block. It wasn't egregious, but it was a foul and could have been called and probably should have since it impacted the play giving IL an advantage, which is generally the standard used. IL plays aggressively, constantly positioning themselves along the baseline to force guys out. This was just another version of that, he got up close to generate contact and impede his movement. I felt you could see it in the kid's body language that he was intending and expecting contact and he was trying not to move so as to avoid a foul call. It was a good play by him, but it was a foul, imo.
And the defender is entitled to that space, as well. He got there first. It absolutely wasn’t a foul, and the replays confirm it.
Yep, the kid made a good play, he closed out aggressively, but ended up planting his foot inside of RPs causing the contact. Doesn't matter if he's moving or it's intentional, it was a foul by definition. I thought he did a great job of "selling" it by not moving, but to me, it clearly gave him an advantage: it caused a turnover. Wasn't like their feet got tangled up going for a loose ball. Phin clearly had possession.
Definitely not a foul. RP initiated the contact, as the replay clearly shows. Getting “too close” but not initiating contact isn’t a foul. The timeout was iffy for sure and he definitely was hit on the shot, but this non call was right. IU had plenty of chances and just didn’t make enough plays.
You ARE an IU fan, correct? Because I've searched back through many of your posts...and I really dont' get that impression....at all. Ever.
foul or no foul, the time out given was total bull shit and that is irrefutable. And we aren't even discussing Durham getting whacked on his shooting arm. Those 3 free throws we didn't get ended up being rather important eh?
Yes, but I’m not going to whine about a call that was the correct one. Why would that make sense, since it wasn’t a foul?
IU fan maybe, but not an Archie fan, so he invents criticisms and then makes declarations they are fact. Pretty soon, he'll be tying this to the "culture" Archie has failed to create.
agree to disagree. the trip caused loss of possession and he wasn't standing straight up holding his space. He was extended between Rob's feet. again, agree to disagree.
so anytime the offense 'initiates contact' the defense cannot be called for a foul? Do you actually watch college basketball?
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