We aren't just bad at shooting

[Cavanagh]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

 

[Lucy01]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

Time to replace Billy Clyde!

 

[JB_Nomee]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

It’s pretty early in the season to be diving this deep into statistics. And if we’re going to dive into the stats, IU has played 3 top 20 defensive teams so far this year too which could be a factor when looking at FG %. Their free throw shooting was not an issue last night as a whole. Their 3p % is the one I’m (and probably everyone else) is most concerned about as the season goes on.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

Don't spasm - it's unbecoming and way premature for hysterics and summary judgment.

When was the last time anyone saw IU play defense as well as they did last night?

When has IU been this good defensively this early in the Season?

How long has it been since IU had a defense that was rated top 20 nationally? (KenPom ranks IU's as 12th)


Am of a mind that the offense will come as the Season and Players/Coaches progress. IU's guards are not remotely "horrendous". Often not finishing well at the rim and have yet to find the range from deep, but they are tough, all in and are only going to get better. Also believe that last night showed that IU learned a lot from playing Texas and quickly became a much better Team because of it. Finally will venture that by Season's end this Team will be able to compete with anyone in the country. Try and enjoy the ride.

My Team is on the Floor.

 

[twenty02]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

Elite 8 right?

 

[kkott]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

... and as shooters go, Jerome and Al really are only adequate. They'd lose in a game of horse to at least 5 guys from Iowa, and probably WI too.

 

[Cavanagh]

Elite 8 right?

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

 

[twenty02]

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

I applaud your passion and optimism.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

We didn't think you'd pay.

 

[Hatchets7times]

What's a long year ? Depends on what you expect...Making the tournament and one win. Would be successful imo..Some fans still believe in the Bob Knight year's. That's fantasy ~
I got to see all three championship's..But that ship sailed along time ago..Most likely to never happen again..If you're waiting on that kind of run ..Your in for disappointment every year..

 

[GoldandBlackintheSaddleAgain]

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

Maybe it's because you totally back out after offering a bet? Oh, yeah, you needed me to find someone who would "vouch" for me on this board in order to accept it... lol, you're a joke

 

[kkott]

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

Because very few fans want to bet against their team. Bad juju.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Elite 8 right?

Shhhh. You're only supposed to mention that if it comes true.

Spastic posters and knee-jerk analysis seems all the rage. Blame it on video games and self inflicted ADHD. For my part liked much of what I saw last night. Reserving judgment but think this Team has real potential, not in anyway inclined to jump ship on the Season.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Shhhh. You're only supposed to mention that if it comes true.

Spastic posters and knee-jerk analysis seems all the rage. Blame it on video games and self inflicted ADHD. For my part liked much of what I saw last night. Reserving judgment but think this Team has real potential, not in anyway inclined to jump ship on the Season.

Other than TJD, who I think is 1st team good, who would you rate as worthy of being 3rd team ABT?

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Other than TJD, who I think is 1st team good, who would you rate as worthy of being 3rd team ABT?

Are you baiting me? Ok, I'll bite. Maybe no one. Outside chance for Armaan and perhaps Race by Season's end but a lot of competition so likely no one. My otherwise unwarranted optimism is based on watching IU floor the best early Season defense I can recall in forever and, an admitted hopefulness that marked improvement is achievable in finishing at the rim and ranging from deep. Last night they rebounded like demons (+8 until eight minutes left in the Game), left any number of point blank looks short, played tougher than any group on defense ever under Miller (and his predecessor), woofed a bunch of wide-open threes, and had a flurry of first half TOs before they adjusted to FSU's speed. Mixed bag but in essence am banking on the Team being better than the sum of its parts (because of chemistry and evolution), several of whom are very new and inexperienced and a couple who haven't even really seen the Floor yet. Not saying it will happen, but at this point like the Team's foundation and believe they have a higher potential ceiling than most. Not as if Miller & Co. haven't enough to work with going forward this year, difference between IU being merely good or something better this year will come down to how good a Coach he really is. Thus do I imagine.

 

[TommyCracker]

I mean, I don’t know why more people don’t take my money when I offer up these sort of things.

To be fair, I and I'm assuming you thought we'd get decent minutes with TJD, Race and Hunter together. Hunter is supposed to be this 6'8" versatile high end, spacing talent. He's been playing the 4 only, subbing for Race.

That's the one thing that has me puzzled. Maybe it's because of Brunk being out? Maybe Hunter is that bad defensively on the perimeter?

I love Galloway's aggressiveness but I really believe Hunter at the three is the difference between us being an Ncaa tourney team and a sweet sixteen/elite 8 team.

 

[snarlcakes]

To be fair, I and I'm assuming you thought we'd get decent minutes with TJD, Race and Hunter together. Hunter is supposed to be this 6'8" versatile high end, spacing talent. He's been playing the 4 only, subbing for Race.

That's the one thing that has me puzzled. Maybe it's because of Brunk being out? Maybe Hunter is that bad defensively on the perimeter?

I love Galloway's aggressiveness but I really believe Hunter at the three is the difference between us being an Ncaa tourney team and a sweet sixteen/elite 8 team.

I don’t understand why Hunter didn’t play the 3 some last night. It’s the one glaring mistake Archie made last night. He’s the only guy who can make an outside shot. Credit to Leonard though he tried to give us the game with that shi#%y 3 court defense.

 

[jet812]

Maybe it's because you totally back out after offering a bet? Oh, yeah, you needed me to find someone who would "vouch" for me on this board in order to accept it... lol, you're a joke

Why would he bet a troll from another board?

 

[Cavanagh]

To be fair, I and I'm assuming you thought we'd get decent minutes with TJD, Race and Hunter together. Hunter is supposed to be this 6'8" versatile high end, spacing talent. He's been playing the 4 only, subbing for Race.

That's the one thing that has me puzzled. Maybe it's because of Brunk being out? Maybe Hunter is that bad defensively on the perimeter?

I love Galloway's aggressiveness but I really believe Hunter at the three is the difference between us being an Ncaa tourney team and a sweet sixteen/elite 8 team.

I thought it was gonna be Race, Trace, Jerome, Lander and then add another guard. I built Jerome up im my mind so much I bet my buddy in the off season that he would go pro after next year.... I smoke a lot of weed. I still have hope tho, his three ball is so money.

Anyways, Race really has improved, and Franklin is a great piece to have. Franklin just cant be our primary shooter, or even second option, hell he should almost never shoot the ball. He should be a transition and get to the rim guy.

The main problem is Lander. If Lander was giving u 12 PPG (would help if he could shoot a decent % from 3, and really need him to be a threat from deep) and 4 assists while playing 25 mins this team would be a lot better.

 

[Cavanagh]

What's a long year ? Depends on what you expect...Making the tournament and one win. Would be successful imo..Some fans still believe in the Bob Knight year's. That's fantasy ~
I got to see all three championship's..But that ship sailed along time ago..Most likely to never happen again..If you're waiting on that kind of run ..Your in for disappointment every year..

This is the best squad we have had since Cody and Vic. We have a great front court in Race and Trace. The next generation Davis brothers. We have a great defense. We just cant shoot. If we turn it around and somehow jump into the top 100 in all three categories we will be really good. History says we won't though.

So if we go 7-13 to 10-10 it is gonna be a long year. 11-9 I think gets you a 6 seed or better this year. If I was gonna put a line on our wins in the big ten I'd put o/u at 9.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

I thought it was gonna be Race, Trace, Jerome, Lander and then add another guard. I built Jerome up im my mind so much I bet my buddy in the off season that he would go pro after next year.... I smoke a lot of weed. I still have hope tho, his three ball is so money.

Anyways, Race really has improved, and Franklin is a great piece to have. Franklin just cant be our primary shooter, or even second option, hell he should almost never shoot the ball. He should be a transition and get to the rim guy.

The main problem is Lander. If Lander was giving u 12 PPG (would help if he could shoot a decent % from 3, and really need him to be a threat from deep) and 4 assists while playing 25 mins this team would be a lot better.

Just weed? No coke and/or speed involved? "Franklin should almost never shoot the ball". Five games into the Season and a role as a starter and you've got him all figured out?! Apply the same capricious standard to Lander and you could make a better case for him never leaving the Bench.

All that hyper-reactive analysis and changing direction does is indicate that you really have no idea. That's okay. It's early. Breathe, let them play a few more games before advancing half-assed conclusions that only have a half-life of a couple days.

IU is a relatively young and inexperienced Team which means they likely have more ceiling than most. Every year there are Teams that start rough but come together by Season's end to defy experts' picks and play hell with bookies and brackets. Not saying IU will be one of them this year, but have seen 'darker horses' than this one storming the Field in March.

Forget the past. Just give Miller and this group of Players a fair shake before you judge them unworthy. If nothing else will make this place less schizophrenic and less like a suicide-watch waystation after losses.

 

[hickorytree1]

I thought it was gonna be Race, Trace, Jerome, Lander and then add another guard. I built Jerome up im my mind so much I bet my buddy in the off season that he would go pro after next year.... I smoke a lot of weed. I still have hope tho, his three ball is so money.

Anyways, Race really has improved, and Franklin is a great piece to have. Franklin just cant be our primary shooter, or even second option, hell he should almost never shoot the ball. He should be a transition and get to the rim guy.

The main problem is Lander. If Lander was giving u 12 PPG (would help if he could shoot a decent % from 3, and really need him to be a threat from deep) and 4 assists while playing 25 mins this team would be a lot better.

Better yet, let's promote Ali Patberg to the men's team and make her our point guard and request 10 points, six boards and four assists per game. If that happens, we'd be a much better team.

 

[ORG]

We are horrendous. Out of the 3 shooting stats on kenpom (2pt%,3pt%, FT%) we are worse than every B1G team but Minny in 3pt%. We are worse than every team but Nebraska and Rutgers at Ft%. And the one that I didn't expect, we are worse than every single team at 2pt%.

You can not compete in a league if you are heads and shoulders the worst shooting team. Our ceiling is so low because of this it is very disheartening. I think Jerome and Al are the only shooters on the team, the rest will be lucky to break 33%. Not being able to hit lay ups is maybe the glaring weakness we aren't recognizing tho. Being worse at 2PT% (49.5%) than everyone else is the real kick in the nuts. Not only can we not hit the broadside of the barn from three, we can't even hit the bunnies.

Gonna be a long year.

Maybe its not as bad as you say. I wonder how many of the Big 10 teams who are ahead of IU in shooting % have played a schedule as tough as IU's has been so far? Now I am NOT saying IU has been shooting good . . . I am saying I feel IU will end up shooting a higher % than several other Big Ten teams.

 

[Hoosierific]

What's a long year ? Depends on what you expect...Making the tournament and one win. Would be successful imo..Some fans still believe in the Bob Knight year's. That's fantasy ~
I got to see all three championship's..But that ship sailed along time ago..Most likely to never happen again..If you're waiting on that kind of run ..Your in for disappointment every year..

Make the tourney win one game is your is your idea of success!? How sad

 

[TommyCracker]

I thought it was gonna be Race, Trace, Jerome, Lander and then add another guard. I built Jerome up im my mind so much I bet my buddy in the off season that he would go pro after next year.... I smoke a lot of weed. I still have hope tho, his three ball is so money.

Anyways, Race really has improved, and Franklin is a great piece to have. Franklin just cant be our primary shooter, or even second option, hell he should almost never shoot the ball. He should be a transition and get to the rim guy.

The main problem is Lander. If Lander was giving u 12 PPG (would help if he could shoot a decent % from 3, and really need him to be a threat from deep) and 4 assists while playing 25 mins this team would be a lot better.

Lander isn't freaking me out as much as others. Again the kid should be playing against BNL, not Florida State. Lander to me is a hell of an investment, hopefully for next year. Instead of coming in New he'll have a year of learning.

The biggest disappointment for me has been Hunter and I'm not sure it's totally on Hunter. He's made shots all over the court...threes, put backs, had a really nice post and fade away and also had a nice jump hook.

I really thought he'd be the primary 3 man to give us a front line of Trayce, Race and Hunter.

He'd be an improvement over Justin because he's much more dynamic offensively but....he's being used strickly as a four so far this year. He's not going to play much as a four even though it might be his most comfortable position.

Franklin has been great. He's our best point guard in my eyes. He's always pushing pace and is doing the best job being a distributor. He also has a real toughness to him that I love. He's also got good size at 6'4" and is really strong physically. As noted Franklin was the main defender on Williams of Stanford (who is supposedly a lottery pick) and last night on Barnes who is a physical freak. Franklin battled both of those guys like a junkyard dog.

I love that.

My preferred lineup would be Franklin, Durham, Hunter, Race and TJD.

That has size, speed, and enough shooting to give TJD space.

I'd sub Rob for AL, Lander for Armaan and Galloway for Hunter.

Then I'd work in Lander when I can for his development. Maybe work in Geronimo.

That would be my rotation.

 

[fkfootball]

Archie will never sit Phinisee. He will ride his passive, walk it up the court, non-chalant Point Guard to the bitter end.

 

[kkott]

Are you baiting me? Ok, I'll bite. Maybe no one. Outside chance for Armaan and perhaps Race by Season's end but a lot of competition so likely no one. My otherwise unwarranted optimism is based on watching IU floor the best early Season defense I can recall in forever and, an admitted hopefulness that marked improvement is achievable in finishing at the rim and ranging from deep. Last night they rebounded like demons (+8 until eight minutes left in the Game), left any number of point blank looks short, played tougher than any group on defense ever under Miller (and his predecessor), woofed a bunch of wide-open threes, and had a flurry of first half TOs before they adjusted to FSU's speed. Mixed bag but in essence am banking on the Team being better than the sum of its parts (because of chemistry and evolution), several of whom are very new and inexperienced and a couple who haven't even really seen the Floor yet. Not saying it will happen, but at this point like the Team's foundation and believe they have a higher potential ceiling than most. Not as if Miller & Co. haven't enough to work with going forward this year, difference between IU being merely good or something better this year will come down to how good a Coach he really is. Thus do I imagine.

no one

FIFY

 

[mushroomgod_1]

To be fair, I and I'm assuming you thought we'd get decent minutes with TJD, Race and Hunter together. Hunter is supposed to be this 6'8" versatile high end, spacing talent. He's been playing the 4 only, subbing for Race.

That's the one thing that has me puzzled. Maybe it's because of Brunk being out? Maybe Hunter is that bad defensively on the perimeter?

I love Galloway's aggressiveness but I really believe Hunter at the three is the difference between us being an Ncaa tourney team and a sweet sixteen/elite 8 team.

I just don't see Hunter making positive contributions other than shooting 3s.

I wish he was, because he has upside. He's just not giving CAM reasons to play him.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Are you baiting me? Ok, I'll bite. Maybe no one. Outside chance for Armaan and perhaps Race by Season's end but a lot of competition so likely no one. My otherwise unwarranted optimism is based on watching IU floor the best early Season defense I can recall in forever and, an admitted hopefulness that marked improvement is achievable in finishing at the rim and ranging from deep. Last night they rebounded like demons (+8 until eight minutes left in the Game), left any number of point blank looks short, played tougher than any group on defense ever under Miller (and his predecessor), woofed a bunch of wide-open threes, and had a flurry of first half TOs before they adjusted to FSU's speed. Mixed bag but in essence am banking on the Team being better than the sum of its parts (because of chemistry and evolution), several of whom are very new and inexperienced and a couple who haven't even really seen the Floor yet. Not saying it will happen, but at this point like the Team's foundation and believe they have a higher potential ceiling than most. Not as if Miller & Co. haven't enough to work with going forward this year, difference between IU being merely good or something better this year will come down to how good a Coach he really is. Thus do I imagine.

You make a lot of good points.

The Texas game was nasty. Other than that, I think these guys are playing about as well as you could expect. Some one else mentioned that we're now playing 'Archie Ball' for the first time, a really good point. Good D, guards trying to take the ball to the basket, not much emphasis on outside shooting. What I remember about his last Dayton team was inside guys playing up for their height, with two smallish tough-as-nails guards taking the ball to the basket. I think those guys at least shot in the low to middle 30s on the 3s they did take.

The point I was making about the lack of ABT-type talent is that right now the team looks like TJD + nine guys. If we're looking for significant improvement from were we are now, we need 1 or 2 players to 'break out'. If it's hard to imagine any of those 9 being good enough to be a 3rd team ABT-type player, the team upside seems rather limited. It's just a reality check.

I would really like to see us get that ex-Pitt transfer. As I understand matters, he'd be eligible at mid-season (Mohammad would not), and one experienced player who can shoot the 3 might make a huge difference in winning the tight games we'll be playing.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Archie will never sit Phinisee. He will ride his passive, walk it up the court, non-chalant Point Guard to the bitter end.

He can't sit him with this team.

 

[Tru2Irish]

In 2021, IU better start searching for a true coach. I love Archie but he is over his head I believe.They need a coach that will pull in Kofi Cockburn type of players and lots of really good shooters. Both IU lack sorely.