i mean wtf. singing and spitting. it's ridiculous. lives and livelihoods....This choir of over 100 singers that VP Emptysuit listened to today in Dallas was probably too many, right?
We are cruisin for a bruisin
- Thread starter Rockfish1
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we now know things we didn't know at first, and nothing more totally incompetent than clinging to a strategy born prior to new info, after the info is known.
we now know half the population is at risk, and half the population is relatively immune.
the relatively immune half have utilized said new info and are going back to normal society whether anyone likes it or not.
denial is more than just a river in Africa, it is deeply embedded in our refusal to change strategy course even knowing what we now know.
because of how the virus affects youngers and olders, we need a new strategy that reflects the non debatable reality of the differences in how the virus affects the 2 universes.
because they relatively safely can, youngers need to go back to normal society and develop a large herd immune population that benefits everyone, and puts the economy and many other things back on course.
olders need to stay locked down, thus govt needs to logistically and economically enable that for olders who don't want to roll the dice. (their choice).
olders and youngers need to stay totally away from each other in the mean time.
the politics of this or whether this is how everyone wishes things were, is totally irrelevant.
and yes, totally segregating the old from young won't be easy, especially where youngers and olders live together.
doesn't matter, has to be done, easy or not.
we need to quit thinking a one policy for all ages can work.
it isn't working, will never work, nor is it working long term anywhere, unless one sees indefinite to forever distancing and masks as "working long term", and doesn't mind forcing half the population into the misery pit of the other half just in the name of fairness, while the economy continues to degrade..
and the one misery pit for all ages strategy will still only work in a more authoritarian society.
it's falling apart now here, and no way we're ever re-implementing it now that youngers know they're relatively immune..
we can start now with a new strategy based in the undeniable reality of the different universes, or continue with a total disaster one strategy for all ages, now that the youngers being relatively immune genie is out of the bottle.
every day we wait means more deaths, and greater destruction of the economy.
or should we wait until after the election to implement sanity, so Biden has a better chance of winning because the economy and jobs will continue to tank, and lots more olders will continue to die.
I don't know what the answer is (if there is one).
It's definitely not Trump's travel bans or immigration bans or whatever he calls them.
I tend to disagree with shutting things down.
But I also understand why others would disagree with my thinking.
i've read you post this in one form or another what feels like a thousand times. and i tend to think based on the science/medicine you're right. you're one of the few that seem to actually try to come up with plans/suggestions. i just don't think it's feasible. i think the logistics and policing of it are impossible. there are too many avenues that folks of all ages have to cross.
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sometimes hard choices have to be made. (and this seems an easy one to me).
what's far more logistically unfeasible, is thinking we can keep the young locked down with the old, now that they know they are effectively immune.
that's about as likely as convincing them to voluntarily abstain from sex till a covid vaccine or treatment is perfected..
they are going back to normal society, whether anyone likes it or not.
some olders, especially middle agers, will roll the dice and go with the younger universe.. their choice.
those that don't want to roll the dice will not fight things as hard as you think, as long as they are logistically and financially enabled by govt to stay in lock down..
and financially enabling olders that meet need based requirements to stay locked down is much cheaper than what we're doing now, and watching the economy continue to struggle.
i'm open to a better plan.. would love to hear one.
what we're doing now isn't one, and failing more every day.
and sticking with the current strategy in light of youngers learning they're effectively immune, what's the over/under on how many days IU will be open this fall until they shut back down, due to youngers testing positive for a virus they are effectively immune to bad effects from.
worse case scenario is youngers going back to normal society as they now are, and not enabling totally segregating the olders from them.
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I am shocked that a country that has the highest in everything -- from cases to fatalities are still carrying on as normal.
So far, 2.8 million cases (and I am pretty sure its under-reported) and 128,000 deaths since 1st March, less than four months and no end in sight...
Its insanity.
Its mandatory to wear a mask outside and indoors at workplaces here for months and even now with the removal of restrictions several key components are still in place -- masking, social distancing and reminders/messaging on why we are all doing it. (I am getting two more free reusable masks as of today -- either from some specified location nearby like the last time or a vending machine now. My tax money at work!)
Most businesses here could apply for generous grants to compensate for the shut-downs. It boiled down to each one's cashflow scenario that determines whether they can weather the storm.
This is what's already happening in many households, certainly in mine. I've got a 22 year old son and a 24 year old daughter who come and go.
Luckily the nearby states require masks in public. Off-topic, but listen to this press conference ( ) to hear the West Virginia governor drop the F-bomb. Anyway, I don't think the government is going to enforced separation between youngers and olders. It has to be a personal choice.
Its one thing that they want to do it and meet the lord early, (justing by their weight group) but having their respective freedom and liberty to spread it to everyone else ought to be criminalised.
Its not like there hasn't been any precedence. Its a good thing most people outside the US don't get to see this level of Covidiocy or they will stop buying American goods when this is all over.
Now I know how to say that in sign language.
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Its social/cultural conditioning. People seem to think they have some god given right/anointment to behave the way they do. Chosen people mentality.
Part of the shite that rolls down from that hill is that they think they are special/entitled enough that you cant tell them what to do -- and like all teenagers, the more you tell them, the more they get there backs up.
Its infantile. Arrested development.
insanity is seeing masking and distancing by everyone indefinitely, especially with half the population effectively immune, as a long term rather than stop gap strategy.
or assuming "the storm", is ending anytime soon.
the effectively immune half of the population are not going to be good with masking and distancing indefinitely, even there.
better to start preparing for that day now..
the at risk group can only keep the not at risk group in their misery reality for so long, and how long is it fair to even ask them to do so.
meanwhile, no large population group is developing herd immunity, so you're only treading water and not getting one inch closer to shore no matter how long you tread.
Like some famous immunologist said, all measures that we do now is just to buy time.... until a vaccine is developed. The shit that's going down in the States and in Brazil are all politically driven.
I really do applaud you for trying to conceive of a plan. But I think of a simple place like the county courthouse. one example where’s it’s impossible to segregate. Just one bulk collection docket brings a hundred people of all ages together. And that’s a single lobby and courtroom.
But US is going to be banned from international travel forever. Because we are morons.
The US being subject to travel bans is the ultimate irony. Payback is a bitch.
Yeap. There are 'green travel channels' being negotiated here now. Travel back & forth without a 14day quarantine on the way back.
The usual suspects like NZ, Oz are on that list -- but China has also been added! Motherland.
No US, UK or Brazil for sure.
The US and Uk is an issue here since there are lots of trade/investments between those countries.
keep up, i never once said or implied govt should force separation on the older who don't wish it..
but youngers absolutely do need to stay away from olders who don't wish to join the youngers group.
i said "enable separation, for olders who voluntarily choose that route who don't like the odds otherwise.
as long as olders and youngers think they can interact safely, olders will continue to die, because they just can't no matter how much they wish otherwise..
how old are you?
if you're mid 40s or younger, you're very very low risk too, (statistically more likely to die in a car crash), and who's to say maybe you aren't better off getting it sooner than later. (i don't make any of the covid rules).
late 40s up to mid/late 50s seems the toughest choice group, but it is their choice, (not their kids'), but i have nothing to do that or any control over anything covid, nor does anyone else.
imo the 22 and 24 yr old are likely going to get it.
that's the likely reality, do you not agree..
if you're older, perhaps you at least start considering the 22 and 24 yr olds getting their own place, or one with friends their age.
still totally your call, even in my best plan i can come up with plan, that i only see as better than any other plans i've seen, or the current "no plan" plan.
but if they stay with you, you need to stay totally away from olders too. (not that you shouldn't anyway, but even more so).
again, thinking/hoping they don't get it when many of those their age are going back to normal society, is only so likely imho.
great with me if someone develops an effective treatment yesterday.
i'm old.. things suck for me regardless, and glad i'm not even older..
For businesses, even a year's ban could be a job loss.
I was supposed to have been somewhere in Africa in late Jan/early Feb. It's now jeopardised the project when we lost the funding. But am trying to figure a Plan B now.
I'm 60 and am working hard to reduce my BMI. I take all the precautions I can, and emphasize to my kids what they can do to reduce their risk, especially the importance of face masks. I read everything I can to manage the risk. I'm glad I'm not in a state with rising infections and no masking policies.
I'd like to see some thought to policies that allow early retirements for people in my age-bracket. A lot of people my age have to go back to work. It would be great if there were a plan to allow them to retire and get early qualification for Medicare.
At the end of the day each of us has to accept whatever risk we're willing to tolerate, or not. I just wish we had government leadership committed to helping manage the risk rather than pretend it's not there.
olders need to stay away from the county court house. (not what you wanted to hear, i know).
quit thinking in terms of how you wish things are, or how they used to be.
they aren't that way anymore.
that said, why i say govt needs to enable olders to stay locked down as best they can. both logistically and financially.
govt needs to enable olders to do anything a courthouse trip would normally require from home, and that shouldn't be hard.
coming up with some rare exception where they can't is just trolling, and not productive.
for a lawyer or judge or someone normally requiring physical presence, they need to consider themselves like an athlete who's suffered an injury and needs to go on injured reserve.
sht happens. don't blame me, i'm only the messenger.
and olders need to realize that just because they've dodged the bullet for a few months before youngers started returning to normal society, permission or not, that they shouldn't assume they will continue to dodge it.
we're only a few months in. and the genie is out of the bottle for youngers, so i don't count on them all masking and distancing going forward.
i'm trying to plan for the reality they won't.
i didn't free them. (though don't begrudge them either).
they are freeing themselves, we can't stop them, so i'm strategizing accordingly, and not living in denial that they aren't.
on a side note, can't technology make even a traditional court proceeding doable virtually?
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These travel bans are going to cause more adverse effects than benefits as your example shows.
And this bitch isn’t happy about it!! I retired to travel...
Not fair. No one said there'd be math involved.
Ran across this stat today:
Even with the latest outbreaks, the U.S. has recorded fewer deaths per 100,000 people (38) than the United Kingdom (66), Spain (61), Italy (57) and France (44). WSJ editorial today
Deaths are a lagging indicator so the US number may move with the current surge and local health systems becoming strained. It will be interesting to see some research into differences in death rates across countries. The UK has consistently had a high death rate, for instance. I'd like to think US hospitals have excelled at keeping people alive, maybe a silver lining that's been dominated by our poor performance preventing the spread.
If nothing else, we've benefited from having a bit more time to learn on the job and develop treatment protocols than did those in Europe who got hit earlier. But that will be cold comfort if we can't knock the infection rate down. A shit load of infections is still going to result in a shit load of deaths.
One of the leaders of Open Maryland has COVID. Oh, and he refuses to work with the contact tracers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1232336
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1232336
You’ve read this board long enough to know that’s not true. People can indeed be that stupid.
I can’t recall where I heard it, but somewhere that a lot of it is young people getting out now, going to bars, etc. So perhaps death rates will not rise. But hospitalizations have, so I guess we will see in a few weeks. Seems like that phrase has been used since March.
Link on Drudge says that a much higher percentage of ICU beds in Houston are being taken by younger people than was the case when the city had its first wave several weeks ago.
As a Maryland resident, what really pisses me off about this guy is he was leading protests to end the stay-at-home order without really understanding the virus.
Here are some quotes: "we are at the end of June and I get it. It really doesn't make sense." and ""If you think you had it ... don't make that assumption to the point where you're being less prudent about how you're behaving," he said. "The challenge with this, all the symptoms for everybody are completely different."
He reported he had symptoms earlier in the year and assumed he had it already.
Just another dumb loud-mouth.
There was a story of a guy at the Trump rally who was not wearing a mask who also had members of his family die. He said that there is so much conflicting information that no one knows what to do so you might as well live normal.
There is only conflicting information if your chief information source comes from Russian trolls.
And the President.
I'm involved with an organization that holds meeting and events in their own facility on a regular basis. When the Board of Directors decided to open back up on a limited basis, one of the requirements was that everyone wear face coverings. There was some pushback from the membership, but there wasn't much said about Freedom! or Constitution! Most of the objectors cited Trump's downplaying mask use and his refusal to wear them himself.
This one's on Trump.
If you look at the UK Brazil and the US, the top hitters in the world series, this is the common dominator. They are or were in the UKs case by elected leaders who called it a hoax for months or in Brazil's case, still does.
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