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We are cruisin for a bruisin

I already carry a deep embarrassment for our country in anticipation of the history to be written of the Trump era.
Don't. He and the GOP will become the historical epitome of corruption and incompetence and his rube followers the newest gullible drooling characters in a Godwin's Law argument, but it will be also be mentioned that many fought against his hateful rhetoric, many called out his lies and many pointed out his gross incompetence. Smile and be proud knowing you were one of them. The shame falls on those who followed his pied piper tune of stupid.
 
Don't. He will become the historical epitome of corruption and incompetence, and his rube followers the newest gullible characters in Godwin's Law, but it will be also be mentioned that many fought against his hateful rhetoric, many called out his lies and many pointed out his gross incompetence. Smile and be proud knowing you were one of them. The shame falls on those who followed his pied piper tune of stupid.

I am not that optimistic. Trump and Covid was wormhole/vortex that allowed these idiots to all start popping up. They have always been there and always will -- just needed the right platform.
It's not going to be some re-set when he leaves office.

There is a bigger issue -- what the country stands for. Right now everything is justifiable based on the almighty $$. Money over lives. You see this in how the pandemic is being handled.

Until this happens, I doubt if anything will change.
 
Here's NBER/MIT:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w27102.pdf

Optimal uniform policy, which treats different demographic groups symmetrically, as in other works on COVID-19, underscores the grim choices confronting policy-makers. In our parameterizations, if policy-makers go for safety-focus and try to limit the mortality rate in the adult population to no more than 0.2%, then they have to put up with economic losses amounting to 37.3% of one year’s GDP. If they prioritize the economy and attempt to limit economic losses to be less than 24.8% of one year’s GDP, then society suffers a mortality rate as high as 1.05%.

Our main result, however, is that better social outcomes are possible with targeted policies. Differential lockdowns on groups with differential risks can significantly improve policy trade-offs, enabling large reductions in economic damages or excess deaths or both. We also find that the majority of these gains can be achieved with a simple targeted policy that applies an aggressive lockdown on the oldest group and treats the rest of the population uniformly. These qualitative conclusions are quite consistent across different parameterizations of our model and are the main take-away message from the paper. For our baseline parameterization, safety-focused semi-targeted policies could limit economic losses to 24.8% of one year’s GDP while maintaining an adult mortality rate of 0.2%, or limit mortality among the adult population to 0.48% while keeping economic losses at 10% of one year’s GDP.
 
I am not that optimistic. Trump and Covid was wormhole/vortex that allowed these idiots to all start popping up. They have always been there and always will -- just needed the right platform.
It's not going to be some re-set when he leaves office.

There is a bigger issue -- what the country stands for. Right now everything is justifiable based on the almighty $$. Money over lives. You see this in how the pandemic is being handled.

Until this happens, I doubt if anything will change.
They've always been there but they used to not speak because the most vile of their thoughts were socially unacceptable and a cause for public humiliation.

Plus, we're talking about history. Get me? Do you really think Trumpers will read history, let alone write it? Their version will be written as fan fiction tin foil conspiracies on 8chan.
 
What's funny/frustrating to me on this whole mask debate is if we could somehow get used to them in public, like bicycle helmets now, we could curb the spread of so many basic colds and flus going forward.

It's crazy how politicized it is.

Minnesota opened up while Wisconsin has been open for a while. I did a semi-outdoor acoustic two piece show on the Apple River campgrounds and I was the social outcast for wearing my mask while I set up (I wear those neck socks that you can pull up, so I look like a milita/deer hunter). My singer was like 'seriously? What are you doing?'

The owner of the club tried to tell me that we weren't in a nursing home and I'm at zero risk.

Another guy told me they had some saran wrap they could wrap me in if I wanted.

It felt like the mask offended them. That's how stupid this anti-mask thing has gotten.

Basically, you are on your own and have to make decisions with the understanding that many people just aren't going to take any precautions. So protect yourself.

To that note, I kind of say f it. I don't care. We've been trying to battle this thing for months and if you don't believe that it's a threat, knock yourself out.

You'll get zero sympathy from me if it hits you or those you love around you.

I'm rooting for that Trump rally to happen this Saturday. There's a lot of pressure to cancel and move it outdoors.

I hope it's packed and goes for over four hours.

It's awful but Darwinism isn't a gentle process.
 
What's funny/frustrating to me on this whole mask debate is if we could somehow get used to them in public, like bicycle helmets now, we could curb the spread of so many basic colds and flus going forward.

It's crazy how politicized it is.

Minnesota opened up while Wisconsin has been open for a while. I did a semi-outdoor acoustic two piece show on the Apple River campgrounds and I was the social outcast for wearing my mask while I set up (I wear those neck socks that you can pull up, so I look like a milita/deer hunter). My singer was like 'seriously? What are you doing?'

The owner of the club tried to tell me that we weren't in a nursing home and I'm at zero risk.

Another guy told me they had some saran wrap they could wrap me in if I wanted.

It felt like the mask offended them. That's how stupid this anti-mask thing has gotten.

Basically, you are on your own and have to make decisions with the understanding that many people just aren't going to take any precautions. So protect yourself.

To that note, I kind of say f it. I don't care. We've been trying to battle this thing for months and if you don't believe that it's a threat, knock yourself out.

You'll get zero sympathy from me if it hits you or those you love around you.

I'm rooting for that Trump rally to happen this Saturday. There's a lot of pressure to cancel and move it outdoors.

I hope it's packed and goes for over four hours.

It's awful but Darwinism isn't a gentle process.

They love defending the constitution and yet not bothered about people who are actually protected under that very same constitution. The constitution is actually just an excuse, just like for mass shooting.
Basically they are just bullshit artist both to their own community but more critically, to themselves.
 
Don't. He and the GOP will become the historical epitome of corruption and incompetence and his rube followers the newest gullible drooling characters in a Godwin's Law argument, but it will be also be mentioned that many fought against his hateful rhetoric, many called out his lies and many pointed out his gross incompetence. Smile and be proud knowing you were one of them. The shame falls on those who followed his pied piper tune of stupid.

Remember, you can’t say mean things about them or else they won’t even consider voting for your democratic candidates.
 
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They love defending the constitution and yet not bothered about people who are actually protected under that very same constitution. The constitution is actually just an excuse, just like for mass shooting.
Basically they are just bullshit artist both to their own community but more critically, to themselves.

Yeah I've gotten the gist from the gun people is its the fear of not having a gun to protect themselves but also to not let the govt take their guns because it will leave them defenseless to fight back against the govt when it becomes a police state.

So I expected a little more sympathy or at least some eyebrows to be raised when Trump brought in the military to take photo ops that were eerily reminiscent of Mussolini while saying he would turn the military on people...get this, exercising their first amendment rights.

I didn't catch any concern in the least of this dreaded govt military takeover I've been warned about.

Speaking of the 2nd amendment, I tried to argue where the line was drawn for weaponry (because they lose their shit when you question military grade assault rifles) and I can't get an answer because they are coming from a position of protection.

So I asked should we have the ability to have nukes and they overwhelmingly say I'm being ridiculous.

Is it? If everyone had a nuclear bomb I could have a bad day at work, or maybe I just get fed up with losing to Purdue and decide to nuke the campus.

The point being the difference in the feeling of protection that a gun gives these peeps to the feeling of a massive threat your neighbor is now because they a nuclear bomb.

Isn't that in essence the gun argument?

Not trying to derail the thread so my apologies in advance but we're kind of babbling.
 
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Of course we are, we are not even trying in half the country.
Marv, have you noticed the Monroe County death reports? It sat at 12 for the longest time, but has ticked up steadily for the last few days and is now at 18 I believe. Insignificant sample size I know, but if it takes off...
 

FL is welcoming the Trump trainwreck to JACKSONVILLE in July. 250 new cases among the staff at Orlando Airport this week.
And I heartily recommend RNC attendees hit up Lynch's Irish Pub, in Jacksonville Beach. It's a perfect spot for them...

" A group of 16 friends all tested positive for coronavirus after a night out at a recently reopened Jacksonville, Florida, bar.

Three members of the group, who spoke to CNN’s Chris Cuomo Tuesday, said they want to remind the public that the pandemic is not over yet.

“We want to raise awareness and get ahead of it,” Kat Layton told Cuomo. “We want to tell people it’s really not ready for what we thought it was ready for, it’s too soon.”

The group had gathered for a friend’s birthday at Lynch’s Irish Pub in Jacksonville Beach on June 6, the same weekend bars reopened in Florida. The bar was crowded, and no one was wearing masks.

“Standing there in front of those people, we knew we were pushing it,” Layton said.

At the time, the virus was “out of sight, out of mind” since they didn’t know anyone who had contracted it and they heard from their mayor and governor that everything was fine, Erika Crisp said. But within days, they started getting sick."

https://www.wctv.tv/content/news/16...-night-out-at-Jacksonville-bar-571315491.html
 
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Marv, have you noticed the Monroe County death reports? It sat at 12 for the longest time, but has ticked up steadily for the last few days and is now at 18 I believe. Insignificant sample size I know, but if it takes off...

We just had a big jump, our total is now 23 deaths. Some are a couple days old but just got reported. Our positive cases are also rising much faster. We had 12 confirmed cases yesterday, the highest so far.
 
We just had a big jump, our total is now 23 deaths. Some are a couple days old but just got reported. Our positive cases are also rising much faster. We had 12 confirmed cases yesterday, the highest so far.
Okay then, you're on top of it. That's essentially double the deaths in the last 10 days or so.

Wife has gone to the westside YMCA a couple times, but she's not going back any time soon. Said most people are not behaving at all, and the staff is not allowed to correct anyone.
 
Okay then, you're on top of it. That's essentially double the deaths in the last 10 days or so.

Wife has gone to the westside YMCA a couple times, but she's not going back any time soon. Said most people are not behaving at all, and the staff is not allowed to correct anyone.

I want to go back to the Y, or PF or the Bill Garrett Rec Center, desperately. But gyms are pretty far up on the list of dangerous places.
 
If Trump and Pence had bought into wearing masks and modeled that behavior early and consistently, I'd bet they could have had a significant impact on the spread. Pity they didn't have the conviction to sacrifice their images to save lives.
Listening to a podcast today from Obama guys. They said of course Obama and Biden would have worn masks, but also they’d be flooding the airwaves with athletes, rappers, celebrities, making public service announcements with masks on. All of that would have made a huge difference. Instead, so Trump can be stubborn and loom brave, he’s willing to have more deaths, mostly his base, and tank the economy. A well thought out strategy, as normal.
 
Listening to a podcast today from Obama guys. They said of course Obama and Biden would have worn masks, but also they’d be flooding the airwaves with athletes, rappers, celebrities, making public service announcements with masks on. All of that would have made a huge difference. Instead, so Trump can be stubborn and loom brave, he’s willing to have more deaths, mostly his base, and tank the economy. A well thought out strategy, as normal.
As Bolton's book allegedly says, everything he does is aimed at his reelection. He thinks his best chance is to convince people that everything is fine and is returning to normal. Masking up wouldn't help that message.

More people dying in droves probably won't either, but he is willing to take the chance.
 
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I want to go back to the Y, or PF or the Bill Garrett Rec Center, desperately. But gyms are pretty far up on the list of dangerous places.
I’m dying to get to my gym. But don’t want to literally die to do so. Wish they would do some classes outside.
 
As Bolton's book allegedly says, everything he does is aimed at his reelection. He thinks his best chance is to convince people that everything is fine and is returning to normal. Masking up wouldn't help that message.

More people dying in droves probably won't either, but he is willing to take the chance.
The main problem with Trump focusing on his re-election is that he’s a corrupt mentally unfit imbecile, so he’ll focus on his re-election in the same incompetently sociopathic way he does everything else.
 
I want to go back to the Y, or PF or the Bill Garrett Rec Center, desperately. But gyms are pretty far up on the list of dangerous places.
She's bummed, bigly. She got into working out before her knee surgery, and then kept at it long afterwards, up until everything shut down. But she's paranoid enough to not put herself in jeopardy, and won't go back until this bullshit is over with somehow. It's too bad, since she needs to be prepared for getting the other knee done.
 
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Listening to a podcast today from Obama guys. They said of course Obama and Biden would have worn masks, but also they’d be flooding the airwaves with athletes, rappers, celebrities, making public service announcements with masks on. All of that would have made a huge difference. Instead, so Trump can be stubborn and loom brave, he’s willing to have more deaths, mostly his base, and tank the economy. A well thought out strategy, as normal.

We all know republicans don’t like celebrities :rolleyes:
 
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Listening to a podcast today from Obama guys. They said of course Obama and Biden would have worn masks, but also they’d be flooding the airwaves with athletes, rappers, celebrities, making public service announcements with masks on. All of that would have made a huge difference. Instead, so Trump can be stubborn and loom brave, he’s willing to have more deaths, mostly his base, and tank the economy. A well thought out strategy, as normal.

The way they did it here was appealling to people's sense of community and also having it about protecting the elderly.

I have said this many times, the type of measures and their timing are important. But the Coms strategy is equally important.
It's behaviour modification. You need to nudge people into changing their behaviour. ( They are huge proponents of the nudge theory here)
 
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How has this not been posted
 
FL is welcoming the Trump trainwreck to JACKSONVILLE in July. 250 new cases among the staff at Orlando Airport this week.
And I heartily recommend RNC attendees hit up Lynch's Irish Pub, in Jacksonville Beach. It's a perfect spot for them...

" A group of 16 friends all tested positive for coronavirus after a night out at a recently reopened Jacksonville, Florida, bar.

Three members of the group, who spoke to CNN’s Chris Cuomo Tuesday, said they want to remind the public that the pandemic is not over yet.

“We want to raise awareness and get ahead of it,” Kat Layton told Cuomo. “We want to tell people it’s really not ready for what we thought it was ready for, it’s too soon.”

The group had gathered for a friend’s birthday at Lynch’s Irish Pub in Jacksonville Beach on June 6, the same weekend bars reopened in Florida. The bar was crowded, and no one was wearing masks.

“Standing there in front of those people, we knew we were pushing it,” Layton said.

At the time, the virus was “out of sight, out of mind” since they didn’t know anyone who had contracted it and they heard from their mayor and governor that everything was fine, Erika Crisp said. But within days, they started getting sick."

https://www.wctv.tv/content/news/16...-night-out-at-Jacksonville-bar-571315491.html

Dumb people deserve dumb prizes
 
Apparently the response from the right to my point that Trump's colossal failure will gratuitously inflict not only enormous suffering and death, but also a much deeper and longer economic contraction, is this: BUT THE PROTESTERS!!! Whatever the impact of the protests (and I assume there will be one), it's abundantly clear that our federal government is massively failing us.

British economist Simon Wren Lewis is writing about Boris Johnson's abject failure, but he might as well be writing about Trump's:

Just a short post to advertise my Guardian article ‘Fear of coronavirus, not lockdown, is the biggest threat to the UK's economy’. The key point I make is that the economy would suffer badly even if there was no lockdown. People, once they realised the extent of the threat, would stay at home. The three reasons I give for imposing a lockdown are classic reasons in economics for state intervention.
  1. The state has an information advantage

    The government, because it talks directly to top scientists, can see the pandemic coming a lot faster than the majority of people. That didn’t work out too well in the UK, where people were leading the government, but if the state functioned well this would be true.

  2. The state deals with externalities

    While the majority of people would stay at home in a pandemic, many others might take risks. Whether the state should allow individuals that freedom is an interesting question, but that is not the point here. Because risky individuals can interact with others who are rightly being cautious, they create an externality which a lockdown avoids.

  3. The state supports individuals in a recession

    There is a classic Keynesian role here. In this case it goes further, because it allows people to stay at home who might otherwise feel compelled to work and endanger themselves and others.
A benign government would lockdown quickly and hard, and get new infections down to a sufficiently low level such that the vast majority of people feel comfortable resuming their social consumption. It would have a local and well trained track, trace and isolate regime (TTI) in place to deal with any new flare-ups once lockdown was lifted. That would enable lockdown to be lifted once daily new infections were low.

That optimal strategy leads to a short sharp economic downturn, but an equally swift recovery that should be V shaped. The UK has departed from this optimal strategy in almost every respect. It delayed the lockdown, which automatically means that the lockdown is going to have to last longer. It failed to deal with externalities by not properly protecting health and care workers. It farmed TTI out to an inexperienced private contractor, so the TTI infrastructure will not be fully operational until September/October! It is chipping away at the lockdown before new infections are low enough, which raises R and prolongs the lockdown. The result is more deaths, but also a bigger and more prolonged recession, and a slower recovery.
The Trump administration has done exactly nothing on any of these fronts and has instead left it to the states to fend for themselves. This is also terrible from a macroeconomic perspective. States simply will not have the resources to do what needs to be done. As incomes fall and sales decline, so will state income and sales tax revenue. Unlike the federal government, which can fund deficits by borrowing at negative real interest rates, states must slash spending on everything to keep their budgets balanced.

Meanwhile, despite multiple studies concluding that widespread mask usage could stop the virus in its tracks, Trump's administration does nothing to ensure that everyone has masks. Worse, Trump himself mocks the idea, and since the Trumpbots must ape whatever President Dunning-Kruger does, mask-wearing has itself become politicized.

And now Trump plans to pack capacity crowds into closed arenas in states like Oklahoma and Arizona where new cases are on the rise. To feed his vanity.

On the other hand, THE PROTESTERS!!!

Good grief.

This...from the King of Yabbuts
 
As Bolton's book allegedly says, everything he does is aimed at his reelection. He thinks his best chance is to convince people that everything is fine and is returning to normal. Masking up wouldn't help that message.

More people dying in droves probably won't either, but he is willing to take the chance.

Everything he does is purely transactional.

Still of all the leaked stories today you would think I would have been most shocked at him agreeing that concentration camps are a good thing...but it was the claim that he didn't know Great Britain had nuclear weapons and that he asked if Finland was part of Russia that frightened me the most.
 
Everything he does is purely transactional.

Still of all the leaked stories today you would think I would have been most shocked at him agreeing that concentration camps are a good thing...but it was the claim that he didn't know Great Britain had nuclear weapons and that he asked if Finland was part of Russia that frightened me the most.

He doesn't know because he cant make money from that.

What ought to frighten you is that other world leaders have figured him out -- and that what drives Donald is $$ and will sell his daughter if he has to.
 
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Half of them probably can’t read. They need to be able to sit in their BarcaLoungers and hear it straight from Hannity’s mouth while they stuff their mouths with pork rinds and Cheetos.

They've always been there but they used to not speak because the most vile of their thoughts were socially unacceptable and a cause for public humiliation.

Plus, we're talking about history. Get me? Do you really think Trumpers will read history, let alone write it? Their version will be written as fan fiction tin foil conspiracies on 8chan.
 
Marv, have you noticed the Monroe County death reports? It sat at 12 for the longest time, but has ticked up steadily for the last few days and is now at 18 I believe. Insignificant sample size I know, but if it takes off...
95% Grubb.
 
As Bolton's book allegedly says, everything he does is aimed at his reelection. He thinks his best chance is to convince people that everything is fine and is returning to normal. Masking up wouldn't help that message.

More people dying in droves probably won't either, but he is willing to take the chance.
Dufalot mistakenly thinks that his schtick won him election in 2016. Nope. He won because Democrats fell asleep at the wheel. Not gonna happen again. everything he does is guaranteeing the Democrats are going to vote. His campaign is suicidal.
 
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Dufalot mistakenly thinks that his schtick won him election in 2016. Nope. He won because Democrats fell asleep at the wheel. Not gonna happen again. everything he does is guaranteeing the Democrats are going to vote. His campaign is suicidal.
He won because the democratic party didn’t listen to what the people wanted. The republicans did.
 
Ok. I see your point. Two questions:
Do you think Sanders got the shaft?
Do you think he would have won the election?
I think Bernie lost fair and square under the rules. Also, Bernie isn't a Democrat. I don't think it's problematic that DNC officials and Democratic voters preferred a Democrat in the Democratic primary.

I don't know if Bernie would've beaten Trump. I like a lot of his ideas, but he's a flawed messenger. For example, it isn't obviously helpful for a Democratic candidate to insist on describing himself with the word "socialist".
 
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