Washington Township announces online classes only

[TommyCracker]

There will be an increase in suicides, sexual abuse and physical abuse to children forced to stay home. Not to mention the long term mental health issues that will plague many children as this is taking place during the formative years of brain development. But corona so it’s cool

It's common knowledge that suicides, sexual and physical abuse skyrocket during the summer....GTFO.

If you're going to fear monger pick something more believable.

FYI....kids can still go outside and play. It's the thought of trapping them and faculty inside a death box for 8 hours for five days is beyond dumb in this environment.

After we bombed Nagasaki, I'm pretty sure there wasn't much debate on if they should reopen schools on time and send the kids out into a nuclear wasteland of radiation.

It's a very difficult issue to try to come up with a solution but until it's proven that it's not a contagious killer in mass (they are now starting to study survivors and the media, I'm sorry the fake world news like the BBC, are saying only 13% have recovered with almost no issues after having to be hospitalized).

And personally I hated going to school. If you would have given me the option to stay home hell yeah sign me up. So I think your student suicide fear is BS.

I'd guess bullying in school has a much higher suicide and death rate, especially if you add up all the school shootings that we've had over the past 25 years.

 

[glmiu11]

So it sounds to me like you're in the "online only" camp. If that's the case, I could go along with that, but I'm of the opinion that people need to know this would be just a half-assed, stopgap measure. It also doesn't address any of the non-instructional aspects of traditional schooling: day care, socialization, nutrition, physical fitness, etc.

Bottom line to me is that it would be, for all intents and purposes, an attempt to do something, whether or not that something actually provides any benefit.

I’m open to ideas. Putting kids at stupid risk is the opposite of the reason I do what I do for a living.

 

[glmiu11]

Im constantly amazed by how many teachers are not in the union. And then they complain about the pay. And they keep voting for Republicans who consistently cut education funding. It’s maddening.

It’s true. So sad. So sad.

 

[StelioKantos]

It's common knowledge that suicides, sexual and physical abuse skyrocket during the summer....GTFO.

If you're going to fear monger pick something more believable.

FYI....kids can still go outside and play. It's the thought of trapping them and faculty inside a death box for 8 hours for five days is beyond dumb in this environment.

After we bombed Nagasaki, I'm pretty sure there wasn't much debate on if they should reopen schools on time and send the kids out into a nuclear wasteland of radiation.

It's a very difficult issue to try to come up with a solution but until it's proven that it's not a contagious killer in mass (they are now starting to study survivors and the media, I'm sorry the fake world news like the BBC, are saying only 13% have recovered with almost no issues after having to be hospitalized).

And personally I hated going to school. If you would have given me the option to stay home hell yeah sign me up. So I think your student suicide fear is BS.

I'd guess bullying in school has a much higher suicide and death rate, especially if you add up all the school shootings that we've had over the past 25 years.

You said I was fear mongering....then brought up Nagasaki. Lol

 

[glmiu11]

Got it. It definitely is a choice between two bad alternatives. I'm not sure how they pull it off safely, but I appreciate the people who are trying (and am frustrated with the people who just say "you must go back to in-person school regardless of the safety concerns.)

Yes. But, that’s why I call it a Hobson’s choice instead of a catch 22. Getting back to it like normal is an intentional tort.

 

[hoosboot]

Yes they should but I don’t think they will be.

I know that here they have allowed daycares and day camps to operate under strict social distancing guidelines to provide a way for people who have to be in-person at work to do so and for their kids to be supervised. I'm certain that it is imperfect, but that's the rationale as I understand it. If we are going to remove that option, we probably should just go back to closing public-facing businesses, stay-at-home lockdowns, and try to strangle this thing a little.

 

[glmiu11]

You said I was fear mongering....then brought up Nagasaki. Lol

The post goes too far, but the point made is accurate.

 

[TommyCracker]

You said I was fear mongering....then brought up Nagasaki. Lol

Suicides and sexual abuse?

'Thank God these students are in school as it's preventing them from being sexually abused at home'.

You should change your name to Bill Hannity.

 

[glmiu11]

I know that here they have allowed daycares and day camps to operate under strict social distancing guidelines to provide a way for people who have to be in-person at work to do so and for their kids to be supervised. I'm certain that it is imperfect, but that's the rationale as I understand it. If we are going to remove that option, we probably should just go back to closing public-facing businesses, stay-at-home lockdowns, and try to strangle this thing a little.

That’s what needs done. That one is a catch 22.

 

[hoot1]

Betsy Devos in discussing reopening the schools on CNN this weekend kept repeating the mantra " Our children need to get back to school".

No matter what the question was, Devos reiterated this line over and over.

 

[glmiu11]

Betsy Devos in discussing reopening the schools on CNN this weekend kept repeating the mantra " Our children need to get back to school".

No matter what the question was, Devos reiterated this line over and over.

We’ve got a whole lot of worst people to ever be in this position of leadership or that conversations we could be having.

 

[Fro]

A teacher in my area recommended that high school students stay home for online classes since parents don't necessarily need to watch them, then use that space to create smaller classrooms for K-8. This would require more teachers and more funding so that would be a challenge.

I was listening to an interview with Dr. Alex Patel (ICU doctor from Toronto advising the NHL and some other sports leagues on COVID) and he mentioned that was one of the better ideas he had heard, since it seems like high school kids are more at risk to get sick/spread it.

Apparently Israel's seen poor results with opening schools up fully as far as case spread, but things improved when they started wearing masks and other schools have had better results when they give more space.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...s-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

Dr. Patel said given you've got to stick a swab up a kid's nose for 10 seconds and dig all around to get a sample (which is hard on the kid), they don't have the testing data for children and they've been operating under the assumption that if the parents are COVID-19 positive, so are the kids.

 

[hoosboot]

I was listening to an interview with Dr. Alex Patel (ICU doctor from Toronto advising the NHL and some other sports leagues on COVID) and he mentioned that was one of the better ideas he had heard, since it seems like high school kids are more at risk to get sick/spread it.

Apparently Israel's seen poor results with opening schools up fully as far as case spread, but things improved when they started wearing masks and other schools have had better results when they give more space.

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...s-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks

Dr. Patel said given you've got to stick a swab up a kid's nose for 10 seconds and dig all around to get a sample (which is hard on the kid), they don't have the testing data for children and they've been operating under the assumption that if the parents are COVID-19 positive, so are the kids.

Don't disagree with the idea of high school students being better positioned to do online learning, but this is one of the big problems...everything I've seen says that the very young are more at risk for complications than teens.

And I'm fascinated by the new face-guard shields the NFL is introducing today and the reaction to them.

 

[TommyCracker]

The post goes too far, but the point made is accurate.

Thank you.

We have an airborne virus that is killing or messing people up right now, except we seem to be arguing it instead of stomping it into the ground or at least minimizing it in a unified effort like they seems to have done in the EU.

If it was nuclear radiation (like after Chernobyl) that was in the air there's no way in hell would we be debating forcing kids and faculty at risk.

Again had we gotten on top of it right from the beginning I think is discussion is different, but it's proven that it's still a forest fire as it's currently ravashing the sun belt.

Another big worry is if it hits rural america with its one or two hospitals per county...they aren't prepared for this.

Maybe a forest fire would be a better analogy.

We wouldn't dare think of sending our kids and faculty to a school that's in the line of a blading forest fire that's not under control.

Who knows, maybe some would argue for it because kids will more likely get sexually abused now. SMH

 

[glmiu11]

Thank you.

We have an airborne virus that is killing or messing people up right now, except we seem to be arguing it instead of stomping it into the ground or at least minimizing it in a unified effort like they seems to have done in the EU.

If it was nuclear radiation (like after Chernobyl) that was in the air there's no way in hell would we be debating forcing kids and faculty at risk.

Again had we gotten on top of it right from the beginning I think is discussion is different, but it's proven that it's still a forest fire as it's currently ravashing the sun belt.

Another big worry is if it hits rural america with its one or two hospitals per county...they aren't prepared for this.

Maybe a forest fire would be a better analogy.

We wouldn't dare think of sending our kids and faculty to a school that's in the line of a blading forest fire that's not under control.

Who knows, maybe some would argue for it because kids will more likely get sexually abused now. SMH

And we still don’t know what the ramifications of getting it are. Are the asymptomatics due for further even worse trouble?
There are so many questions.
It’s the devil you don’t know.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I've got no dog in this hunt, but it seems to me that from an educational standpoint trying to go ahead with school online or even in person with all the restrictions and rules and procedures that are being floated is just silly. Just cancel school until the second semester, or even the whole year. At least by then we'll have a much better idea of where we stand. If that means kids aren't going to graduate high school as scheduled, so be it.

And yes, I know the fallout from that would be enormous. But weighed against the bullshit fake education that the kids would be getting and the public health risks, I'm not sure it would be worse overall.

Thing is, you can close down everything, but since a party stacked with idiots who celebrate ignorance and hate science and facts are in charge of the highest levels of government and the entirety of lots of states, there will be no plan to reopen safely. They had 3 months to get their shit together and form solid and enforceable plans to reopen safely and, voila, we’re f*****g shutting down again. We’re having huge spikes in several states with ICUs at full or near full capacity. I have no doubt that the highest levels of government will fail again. Don’t worry rubes, we’re gonna save your second amendment. All is well.

 

[glmiu11]

Thing is, you can close down everything, but since a party stacked with idiots who celebrate ignorance and hate science and facts are in charge of the highest levels of government and the entirety of lots of states, there will be no plan to reopen safely. They had 3 months to get their shit together and form solid and enforceable plans to reopen safely and, voila, we’re f*****g shutting down again. We’re having huge spikes in several states with ICUs at full or near full capacity. I have no doubt that the highest levels of government will fail again. Don’t worry rubes, we’re gonna save your second amendment. All is well.

I wish you were wrong.

 

[outside shooter]

Does anyone think that is really going to mitigate the public health risk? Really? Seems to me more like going through the motions so they can say "Well, at least we tried."

Data says that transmission through aerosols (singing, talking, hell... even breathing) is the route of transmission >95% of the time, and that it is highly distance dependent. So having 10-12 desks filled in a room, rather than 20-24, and maximally spaced out, is one of the very most sensible things to do, if you are going to reopen at all.

The bus riding situation is probably more troublesome to control.

 

[IUclover]

I wish you were wrong.

According the WH press briefing today, teachers are essential workers just like meat packers. Definitely the same thing...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?473835-1/white-house-press-secretary-holds-briefing

 

[glmiu11]

According the WH press briefing today, teachers are essential workers just like meat packers. Definitely the same thing...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?473835-1/white-house-press-secretary-holds-briefing

Wow. I was waiting for that shoe to drop.

 

[UncleMark]

Data says that transmission through aerosols (singing, talking, hell... even breathing) is the route of transmission >95% of the time, and that it is highly distance dependent. So having 10 desks filled in a room, rather than 20, and maximally spaced out, is one of the very most sensible things to do.

LOL. When I was in grade school, class sizes were closer to 30. (And we had actual blackboards -- with chalk.)

The bus riding situation is probably more troublesome to control.

The bus I rode was about 60 capacity and was nearly full by the time the last pickups were made.

So it sounds like they will need three times the classrooms, three times the teachers, three times the buses, and three times the bus drivers.

Easy peasy.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I wish you were wrong.

You and me both.

 

[outside shooter]

LOL. When I was in grade school, class sizes were closer to 30. (And we had actual blackboards -- with chalk.)

Florida regulates class size:
Max 18 students in prekindergarten through grade 3;
22 students in grades 4 through 8; and
25 students in grades 9 through 12.

My son is at Cornell and all of the large lectures are moving online, then smaller classes are making much more use of the lecture halls / auditoriums throughout the day, to spread people out.

 

[ButHerEmails]

Data says that transmission through aerosols (singing, talking, hell... even breathing) is the route of transmission >95% of the time, and that it is highly distance dependent. So having 10-12 desks filled in a room, rather than 20-24, and maximally spaced out, is one of the very most sensible things to do, if you are going to reopen at all.

The bus riding situation is probably more troublesome to control.

Not sure that’s doable. Average elementary school class size in IN is 21.5 students. So you need at least two classrooms for each grade. As another poster pointed out, some class sizes can reach 30 or more. So those schools need at least three classrooms for each grade (assuming your 10-12 per room limit). At some schools the physical classrooms might not have the dimensions to space 12 kids out at 6 feet apart.

 

[Thyrsis]

Florida regulates class size:
Max 18 students in prekindergarten through grade 3;
22 students in grades 4 through 8; and
25 students in grades 9 through 12.

My son is at Cornell and all of the large lectures are moving online, then smaller classes are making much more use of the lecture halls / auditoriums throughout the day, to spread people out.

25 students in grades 9 through 12.

In what sized space? How much distance is appropriate between students and teachers? What are protocols if someone tests positive? Are masks mandatory throughout the day? What are the cross-over points outside the classroom? What about lunch rooms? What about bands and choirs?

Maybe (probably?) there's more than this, but arbitrary one-off standards aren't the point. Say safety is first, explain how safety will be first, balance the needs, think through the practical realities. Otherwise, so much of this is just saying, "we need to go back" and throwing out perfunctory and arbitrary factoids that have little to no bearing on reality and safety.

Edit: obviously not shooting at outside shooter.

 

[UncleMark]

My son is at Cornell and all of the large lectures are moving online, then smaller classes are making much more use of the lecture halls / auditoriums throughout the day, to spread people out.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[zeke4ahs]

And those class sizes are usually larger than that. So they can say, for example ratio is 20:1, they count aides, special area teachers, etc. Many classes have 30 still.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

As others have stated, this is a very difficult situation for all involved from parents to kids to administrators and teachers.

Looking at the opportunities here:

Kids are resilient and with some thoughtful planning the gaps we all anticipate can be overcome over the following year. There are lessons for kids regardless of the situation they are in.

Our educational system is badly broken and this is an opportunity to address parts of that. On-line learning content is already improving and escalating rapidly. The delivery systems are limited as we have seen in the testing process. This is a tremendous opportunity to escalate improvement and updating technical capabilities.

Random, I know, but there are opportunities in every problem.

 

[glmiu11]

As others have stated, this is a very difficult situation for all involved from parents to kids to administrators and teachers.

Looking at the opportunities here:

Kids are resilient and with some thoughtful planning the gaps we all anticipate can be overcome over the following year. There are lessons for kids regardless of the situation they are in.

Our educational system is badly broken and this is an opportunity to address parts of that. On-line learning content is already improving and escalating rapidly. The delivery systems are limited as we have seen in the testing process. This is a tremendous opportunity to escalate improvement and updating technical capabilities.

Random, I know, but there are opportunities in every problem.

My corporation has spent a great deal of time working on these things. We have much work to do to improve. This can be done.

 

[hoosboot]

Florida regulates class size:
Max 18 students in prekindergarten through grade 3;
22 students in grades 4 through 8; and
25 students in grades 9 through 12.

My son is at Cornell and all of the large lectures are moving online, then smaller classes are making much more use of the lecture halls / auditoriums throughout the day, to spread people out.

LAUSD, the nation's second largest school district, just announced remote learning when school starts back in August and no timetable for returning to classrooms. Now the challenge becomes improving upon what they did in the spring.

And, not in response to your post, but in general...it's fascinating that some folks think that teachers aren't working in online learning environments. They are doing their normal workload PLUS learning how to do it in an online environment. Talk about meeting your essential worker duties heroically!

 

[IUclover]

And, not in response to your post, but in general...it's fascinating that some folks think that teachers aren't working in online learning environments. They are doing their normal workload PLUS learning how to do it in an online environment. Talk about meeting your essential worker duties heroically!

My wife has been teaching about two online college classes/semester for the last two years, while working a full-time job, and is always busy doing something with the online classes. It requires a lot of preparation, consistently finding ways to keep students motivated, and it can be difficult to actually virtually meet one-on-one with students. I can't imagine how hard it is for some of the older teaches transitioning.

If you know of anyone still deciding what to do with their life, instructional design professionals are and will be in high demand. She's going back for a second masters in that field as well.

 

[mashnut]

I have a child, and I have a wife who is a teacher and who is very high risk from COVID so both sides of how awful this choice is weigh on us heavily.

I think there are no good answers, but there are better answers. Sending all the kids to crowd into poorly ventilated schools is not one of those better answers. I’d like to see creativity like hiring every college graduate who wants a job as instructional assistants. Let teachers teach remotely to stable groups of 3-5 kids with an assistant. Suddenly an infection can spread to 5 families instead of hundreds, and the person working face to face with the kids getting sick doesn’t mean an entire class loses their teacher. It means kids get socialization and that parents can work. You do this in the houses of children in the group so there’s safety with parents around.

This will be expensive. You need to provide broadband that can handle video chats to every home with a school aged child. We need to hire an army of young people to help our children. But you know what? You come out of this with better access to the internet in underserved areas and you stimulate the economy by paying people to do meaningful jobs.

 

[twenty02]

As others have stated, this is a very difficult situation for all involved from parents to kids to administrators and teachers.

Looking at the opportunities here:

Kids are resilient and with some thoughtful planning the gaps we all anticipate can be overcome over the following year. There are lessons for kids regardless of the situation they are in.

Our educational system is badly broken and this is an opportunity to address parts of that. On-line learning content is already improving and escalating rapidly. The delivery systems are limited as we have seen in the testing process. This is a tremendous opportunity to escalate improvement and updating technical capabilities.

Random, I know, but there are opportunities in every problem.

In today's America we look at opportunities, talk about them for a few minutes, flush them down the toilet... and then get back to doing whatever the **** we were doing yesterday.

 

[glmiu11]

I have a child, and I have a wife who is a teacher and who is very high risk from COVID so both sides of how awful this choice is weigh on us heavily.

I think there are no good answers, but there are better answers. Sending all the kids to crowd into poorly ventilated schools is not one of those better answers. I’d like to see creativity like hiring every college graduate who wants a job as instructional assistants. Let teachers teach remotely to stable groups of 3-5 kids with an assistant. Suddenly an infection can spread to 5 families instead of hundreds, and the person working face to face with the kids getting sick doesn’t mean an entire class loses their teacher. It means kids get socialization and that parents can work. You do this in the houses of children in the group so there’s safety with parents around.

This will be expensive. You need to provide broadband that can handle video chats to every home with a school aged child. We need to hire an army of young people to help our children. But you know what? You come out of this with better access to the internet in underserved areas and you stimulate the economy by paying people to do meaningful jobs.

That’s an awesome idea that ain’t never gonna happen.

 

[76-1]

I have a child, and I have a wife who is a teacher and who is very high risk from COVID so both sides of how awful this choice is weigh on us heavily.

I think there are no good answers, but there are better answers. Sending all the kids to crowd into poorly ventilated schools is not one of those better answers. I’d like to see creativity like hiring every college graduate who wants a job as instructional assistants. Let teachers teach remotely to stable groups of 3-5 kids with an assistant. Suddenly an infection can spread to 5 families instead of hundreds, and the person working face to face with the kids getting sick doesn’t mean an entire class loses their teacher. It means kids get socialization and that parents can work. You do this in the houses of children in the group so there’s safety with parents around.

This will be expensive. You need to provide broadband that can handle video chats to every home with a school aged child. We need to hire an army of young people to help our children. But you know what? You come out of this with better access to the internet in underserved areas and you stimulate the economy by paying people to do meaningful jobs.

Here's what I think may be an expansion on your idea (if I understand it correctly)...

Why not A) put video cameras in every classroom and have every teacher work their semester teaching plan up in front of the camera (as if they had a full house of students)...
B) bring Only those students into the school that literally have no other options and keep them 8-10 feet apart with masks on at all times (no mask no entry)
C) attempt to engage neighborhood groups to allow 4 kids per home entry and have the onsite parent(s) supervise the online school day... Everything else either takes place at daycare or in solo family settings...

The kids that want to learn will learn and the teachers who want to teach (in front of a camera) will teach...

Even teachers over the age of 50 should be able to teach from their basement if they want to put in the effort to stand in front of a camera...

This would be complicated but if not missing the Fall semester is truly as important as its being made out to be there should be a way to make it work...

Even lunch deliveries could be worked out using a limited cafeteria staff and the buses for those that need that sustenance...

 

[hoosboot]

Here's what I think may be an expansion on your idea (if I understand it correctly)...

Why not A) put video cameras in every classroom and have every teacher work their semester teaching plan up in front of the camera (as if they had a full house of students)...
B) bring Only those students into the school that literally have no other options and keep them 8-10 feet apart with masks on at all times (no mask no entry)
C) attempt to engage neighborhood groups to allow 4 kids per home entry and have the onsite parent(s) supervise the online school day... Everything else either takes place at daycare or in solo family settings...

The kids that want to learn will learn and the teachers who want to teach (in front of a camera) will teach...

Even teachers over the age of 50 should be able to teach from their basement if they want to put in the effort to stand in front of a camera...

This would be complicated but if not missing the Fall semester is truly as important as its being made out to be there should be a way to make it work...

Even lunch deliveries could be worked out using a limited cafeteria staff and the buses for those that need that sustenance...

It all sounds great, but I suspect the issue is scalability and the ability to predict what's next. We have so many unknowns and can't even get people to agree to something as simple as wearing a mask. It's not impossible, but I unfortunately haven't seen a ton to indicate that we have the will to make it happen.

 

[twenty02]

Here's what I think may be an expansion on your idea (if I understand it correctly)...

Why not A) put video cameras in every classroom and have every teacher work their semester teaching plan up in front of the camera (as if they had a full house of students)...
B) bring Only those students into the school that literally have no other options and keep them 8-10 feet apart with masks on at all times (no mask no entry)
C) attempt to engage neighborhood groups to allow 4 kids per home entry and have the onsite parent(s) supervise the online school day... Everything else either takes place at daycare or in solo family settings...

The kids that want to learn will learn and the teachers who want to teach (in front of a camera) will teach...

Even teachers over the age of 50 should be able to teach from their basement if they want to put in the effort to stand in front of a camera...

This would be complicated but if not missing the Fall semester is truly as important as its being made out to be there should be a way to make it work...

Even lunch deliveries could be worked out using a limited cafeteria staff and the buses for those that need that sustenance...

LOL.

Literally no way any of this could ever occur.

People are set in their ways. We have no society. Just a bunch of assholes that need to make their nut.

 

[76-1]

LOL.

Literally no way any of this could ever occur.

People are set in their ways. We have no society. Just a bunch of assholes that need to make their nut.

That may be true but when their children are involved parents usually go the extra mile...

This would have to happen at the local level. The Federal government should just attempt to support the basics of whatever each community decides to go with (within reason)...

Since it's almost a rule here to politicize every thread I'd suggest that given the clear lack of knowledge of American History by many of our most recent graduates (the Douglass, Grant, Lincoln monument vandals) losing a semester might not be all that big a deal...

Perhaps 6 months of Home Schooling is just what's needed...

 

[Courtsensetwo]

LOL.

Literally no way any of this could ever occur.

People are set in their ways. We have no society. Just a bunch of assholes that need to make their nut.

I get your point and it is not wrong. That said, the majority of parents with kids in this situation will be looking at the consequences and looking for solutions. Many who want to make that "nut" will seize the opportunity to provide monetized solutions and we will move forward.

Politicians will muddy the waters throughout the process but capitalism will ultimately do far more good than harm here.

Will America learn from this? I think so.

 

[twenty02]

That may be true but when their children are involved parents usually go the extra mile...

This would have to happen at the local level. The Federal government should just attempt to support the basics of whatever each community decides to go with (within reason)...

Since it's almost a rule here to politicize every thread I'd suggest that given the clear lack of knowledge of American History by many of our most recent graduates (the Douglass, Grant, Lincoln monument vandals) losing a semester might not be all that big a deal...

Perhaps 6 months of Home Schooling is just what's needed...

For a high schooler... maybe. For a 1st grader, not so much.