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Washington Post: Scant evidence that Clinton had malicious intent in handling of emails

Outside of the bright spot their racist candidate provides for the short sighted crowd, they aren't having a good year so far.

The world has passed them by and they are striving to even further marginalize themselves while being proud as peacocks doing it. feather brains...
 
That's right.

Still, it won't stop the tin foil crowd. Nothing is ever enough when the name is Clinton.

ThaQUOTE="TheOriginalHappyGoat, post: 1626069, member: 9392"]Softening the ground. Nothing much here legally, but the anonymous leak is to lessen the impact when they shortly announce there will be no charges.[/QUOTE]
 
Another fake controversy, brought to you by the same people who brought you BENGHAZI!!!

Link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?postshare=6211462486857748&tid=ss_tw

That's a shocker

WaPo reports scant evidence of clinton guilt? Really? I never saw that story coming. ;)

Meanwhile in the reality based community. There is enough evidence in the public record to establish a pima facie case of guilt. Understanding that in a "state of mind case" the evidence will always be mostly circumstantial, consider these circumstances:

1. Clinton knowingly and deliberately set up a private e-mail server away from the work site.
2. Clinton knowingly and deliberately had personal control over the server to the exclusion of any government official.
3. Clinton knowingly and deliberately directed 100% of her official and government e-mail to be routed to and stored on the private non-governmental server.
4. Clinton knowingly and deliberately used the private server to initiate 100% her official e-mail communications.
5. Clinton made no effort to separate classified information from non-classified information.
6. Clinton had been personally instructed in how to handle and protect classified electronic communications. Clinton knowingly and deliberately ignored these instructions.
7. Clinton must be held to the knowledge that some of her e-mails sent and received must have contained classified material; she knowingly and deliberately omitted to have a protocol to protect those.
8. Classified material was in fact on Clinton's private server.

These are pretty much acknowledged and established facts. I think these facts are sufficient to sustain a jury verdict that she knowingly mishandled classified information. To rebut this, the burden would be shifted to her that she had no intent to do what she did.

One way to rebut the presumption created by these facts would be to establish a level of ignorance that Clinton was essentially clueless about these matters. That isn't too far fetched. She demonstrated cluelessness in several instances during the Benghazi! hearings. She has demonstrated cluelessness at times on the campaign trail. The question then becomes does this level of cluelessness belong in the Oval Office?
 
Another fake controversy, brought to you by the same people who brought you BENGHAZI!!!

Link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?postshare=6211462486857748&tid=ss_tw

Did I miss where malicious intent is equivalent to negligence? I've never even heard anyone on this board indicate that she had malicious intent when she circumvented security protocols.

I don't see how she would be innocent of negligence though. Apparently that isn't a crime in this country any longer.
 
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Did I miss where malicious intent is equivalent to negligence? I've never even heard anyone on this board indicate that she had malicious intent when she circumvented security protocols.

I don't see how she would be innocent of negligence though. Apparently that isn't a crime in this country any longer.
To be clear, "gross negligence" is required, not just plain old regular negligence.
 
Another fake controversy, brought to you by the same people who brought you BENGHAZI!!!

Link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?postshare=6211462486857748&tid=ss_tw

I work for the DoD, intent doesn't really matter. She will get away with it because she is Hillary Clinton, but if she was any other government worker who had intentionally sought to get around the handling of classified or sensitive material for whatever reason, she would have had the book thrown at her.

Crow all you want but this email episode shows that she is probably both incompetent (in not understanding the extreme national security risk that her convenience was causing) and a liar.
 
I work for the DoD, intent doesn't really matter. She will get away with it because she is Hillary Clinton, but if she was any other government worker who had intentionally sought to get around the handling of classified or sensitive material for whatever reason, she would have had the book thrown at her.

Crow all you want but this email episode shows that she is probably both incompetent (in not understanding the extreme national security risk that her convenience was causing) and a liar.

Who set up the server matters. If some of you remember way back when I said she's just an executive...guess what we're finding out, she's just an executive.
 
That's a shocker

WaPo reports scant evidence of clinton guilt? Really? I never saw that story coming. ;)

Meanwhile in the reality based community. There is enough evidence in the public record to establish a pima facie case of guilt. Understanding that in a "state of mind case" the evidence will always be mostly circumstantial, consider these circumstances:

1. Clinton knowingly and deliberately set up a private e-mail server away from the work site.
2. Clinton knowingly and deliberately had personal control over the server to the exclusion of any government official.
3. Clinton knowingly and deliberately directed 100% of her official and government e-mail to be routed to and stored on the private non-governmental server.
4. Clinton knowingly and deliberately used the private server to initiate 100% her official e-mail communications.
5. Clinton made no effort to separate classified information from non-classified information.
6. Clinton had been personally instructed in how to handle and protect classified electronic communications. Clinton knowingly and deliberately ignored these instructions.
7. Clinton must be held to the knowledge that some of her e-mails sent and received must have contained classified material; she knowingly and deliberately omitted to have a protocol to protect those.
8. Classified material was in fact on Clinton's private server.

These are pretty much acknowledged and established facts. I think these facts are sufficient to sustain a jury verdict that she knowingly mishandled classified information. To rebut this, the burden would be shifted to her that she had no intent to do what she did.

One way to rebut the presumption created by these facts would be to establish a level of ignorance that Clinton was essentially clueless about these matters. That isn't too far fetched. She demonstrated cluelessness in several instances during the Benghazi! hearings. She has demonstrated cluelessness at times on the campaign trail. The question then becomes does this level of cluelessness belong in the Oval Office?

Is there a difference between "established facts" and "pretty much established facts"? Did you preface all that with something about "reality based community"? BTW, both questions were rhetorical.

Also, the only ones who looked "clueless" after SIX Benghazi hearings were the republicans holding the hearings. If she does get locked up, she'll be fine. After all, she made all you guys her little prison bitches during all those hearings.
 
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Who set up the server matters. If some of you remember way back when I said she's just an executive...guess what we're finding out, she's just an executive.

It matters in that they may be in trouble too but the server was set up by her order. They didn't just show up and install it and force her to use it. She didn't want her laundry being open to potential public scrutiny so she sought out someone to set up a server for her to get around it. She's a Clinton, the rules don't apply to her.
 
Who set up the server matters. If some of you remember way back when I said she's just an executive...guess what we're finding out, she's just an executive.
No, it doesn't. The server is irrelevant. Did she or did she not knowingly (or through gross negligence) cause classified info to be somewhere it wasn't authorized? That's the only question. Everything else is a sideshow. By thinking the server matters, you are falling into the trap set by the Repub conspiracists.
 
To be clear, "gross negligence" is required, not just plain old regular negligence.

Is there really a difference in this case? If she was negligent, wouldn't it be grossly negligent, given the fact that she was not a reasonable person in such a circumstance?
 
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It matters in that they may be in trouble too but the server was set up by her order. They didn't just show up and install it and force her to use it. She didn't want her laundry being open to potential public scrutiny so she sought out someone to set up a server for her to get around it. She's a Clinton, the rules don't apply to her.

Which wasn't illegal and other REPUBLICAN administration officials have came forward stating they did the very same things.

If you want to whine, at least include everyone. I've admistered email servers that DoD went to/through and had classified email go through that required action. No one got prosecuted that I'm aware of. Like us her folks didn't originate the classified email and send it out unsecured, they received it. The onus isn't on them.

I don't even think they removed the server, just had us take it off line and the appropriate personnel inspect and scrub it.

This is what Aloha and I went around and around about at the time I mentioned it and look how it is turning out...
 
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No, it doesn't. The server is irrelevant. Did she or did she not knowingly (or through gross negligence) cause classified info to be somewhere it wasn't authorized? That's the only question. Everything else is a sideshow. By thinking the server matters, you are falling into the trap set by the Repub conspiracists.

Perhaps she can not be proven to be grossly negligent. But her incompetence with basic IT, orders and process doesn't give you reason to pause and think, this woman is literally just a small-handed, weird-haired guy away from overseeing the sovereignty of this great country?

I look at this election and its candidates and shake my head in sadness.

yutRrqm.gif
 
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Is there really a difference in this case? If she was negligent, wouldn't it be grossly negligent, given the fact that she was not a reasonable person in such a circumstance?
There is a difference. Standards of negligence are based in what a reasonable person would do in the same circumstance. Gross negligence is purposefully a higher standard, which changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I think the most common difference is that it is not only a lack of reasonable care, but an active disregard for any level of care whatsoever. Not salting the sidewalk in front of your office might be negligence. Turning down someone who offers to salt it for you for free might be gross negligence.
 
I work for the DoD, intent doesn't really matter. She will get away with it because she is Hillary Clinton, but if she was any other government worker who had intentionally sought to get around the handling of classified or sensitive material for whatever reason, she would have had the book thrown at her.

Crow all you want but this email episode shows that she is probably both incompetent (in not understanding the extreme national security risk that her convenience was causing) and a liar.

About a month ago I posted a story about all the people prosecuted for this particular crime. In every case, the person was prosecuted after it was determined other crimes were committed (passing the classified information along, lying about it under oath). No one has ever been prosecuted only for this crime.

So I'm not sure that if she isn't prosecuted it is simply because she is Hillary Clinton. I agree it speaks on judgement, and I'm not at all defending that. But if a standard has been set and has been acceptable practice for some time, I'm not sure her being treated the same way is wrong.
 
About a month ago I posted a story about all the people prosecuted for this particular crime. In every case, the person was prosecuted after it was determined other crimes were committed (passing the classified information along, lying about it under oath). No one has ever been prosecuted only for this crime.

So I'm not sure that if she isn't prosecuted it is simply because she is Hillary Clinton. I agree it speaks on judgement, and I'm not at all defending that. But if a standard has been set and has been acceptable practice for some time, I'm not sure her being treated the same way is wrong.
The board's amateur legal experts have no idea what they're talking about.
 
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The board's amateur legal experts have no idea what they're talking about.

Not a legal expert and never claimed to be but I handle information daily that is far less secure than Clinton was handling and I know that making a mistake gets you in trouble, making several gets you fired, and intentionally making a bunch can get you prosecuted. And I sure as shit wouldn't have the luxury of picking and choosing what emails I shared with the Feds if I did what she did. You do not put government info on your personal computer. Period. And we all get that training from day 1.
 
Not a legal expert and never claimed to be but I handle information daily that is far less secure than Clinton was handling and I know that making a mistake gets you in trouble, making several gets you fired, and intentionally making a bunch can get you prosecuted. And I sure as shit wouldn't have the luxury of picking and choosing what emails I shared with the Feds if I did what she did. You do not put government info on your personal computer. Period. And we all get that training from day 1.

Yet you admit you don't know what you are actually talking about.

At least you've admitted all you are doing is speculating w/o a clue.
 
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I feel very confident predicting that the HRC indictment will be handed down exactly one day after the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC Men's Basketball. Book that.

Whether either deserve it, well I'd not really be in a position to know. But it doesn't change my prediction either way.
 
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Yet you admit you don't know what you are actually talking about.

At least you've admitted all you are doing is speculating w/o a clue.

I give up. No point in even having a discussion with half of you guys most of the time because you can never get past the partisan defenses anyway. And the know it alls on every topic will never be convinced that someone else may have something to offer. Back to your GOP bashing and cheerleaders which was the intent of the op to begin with.

And besides that, nothing will happen because she is part of the overlord class and nothing will happen to her because of that.
 
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I feel very confident predicting that the HRC indictment will be handed down exactly one day after the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC Men's Basketball. Book that.

Whether either deserve it, well I'd not really be in a position to know. But it doesn't change my prediction either way.

Then Cleveland State better really duck, both the basketball program and the IT folks ....
 
I give up. No point in even having a discussion with half of you guys most of the time because you can never get past the partisan defenses anyway. And the know it alls on every topic will never be convinced that someone else may have something to offer. Back to your GOP bashing and cheerleaders which was the intent of the op to begin with.

And besides that, nothing will happen because she is part of the overlord class and nothing will happen to her because of that.

See I've dealt with almost exactly this scenario, DoD, off-site server, classified email traversing the system ... yet you give up.

huh
 
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...
Who set up the server matters. If some of you remember way back when I said she's just an executive...guess what we're finding out, she's just an executive.
She's an executive and is responsible for how she uses her account. She's especially responsible for how her personal server is used. It's not about who set up the server in the least.
 
...

She's an executive and is responsible for how she uses her account. She's especially responsible for how her personal server is used. It's not about who set up the server in the least.

We been through this Aloha, we disagreed, looks like barring something no one is expecting versus what many are hoping...

Then we have had the revelations since that time that prior administrations did and had the same type of issues...yet no one was prosecuted there either.

That ol' wish in one and and poop in the other at this juncture. Could still change but...
 
I don't think DOJ officials make this leak without direction. It's ground-softening.

Why exactly does someone create their own private server in the first place? If you are a government employee why would you possibly conduct government business on a private server?

And that's knowing that as SOS you would be handling highly classified info.

Afaik this act of creating a private server is unprecedented?

And any doofus would know that the govt server should be more highly defensed than a private server? Apparently some random Romanian kid even broke into the private one?

I don't know if a crime was committed, though my guess was the server was created to hide various activities from information requests. If not done for nefarious reasons it speaks to an unbelievable level of stupidity.
 
Why exactly does someone create their own private server in the first place? If you are a government employee why would you possibly conduct government business on a private server?

And that's knowing that as SOS you would be handling highly classified info.

Afaik this act of creating a private server is unprecedented?

And any doofus would know that the govt server should be more highly defensed than a private server? Apparently some random Romanian kid even broke into the private one?

I don't know if a crime was committed, though my guess was the server was created to hide various activities from information requests. If not done for nefarious reasons it speaks to an unbelievable level of stupidity.
My guess is she wanted to skirt FOIA. I think she's in trouble in the civil case. Most of the rest of what you said is gibberish. If you can't separate the FOIA issue from the classification issue, you really shouldn't be talking about this.
 
Which wasn't illegal and other REPUBLICAN administration officials have came forward stating they did the very same things.

If you want to whine, at least include everyone. I've admistered email servers that DoD went to/through and had classified email go through that required action. No one got prosecuted that I'm aware of. Like us her folks didn't originate the classified email and send it out unsecured, they received it. The onus isn't on them.

I don't even think they removed the server, just had us take it off line and the appropriate personnel inspect and scrub it.

This is what Aloha and I went around and around about at the time I mentioned it and look how it is turning out...
Again, paragraph one isn't true. No one, Republican or Democrat, has "come forward" to say that they've done the "very same things," because no one has.

Paragraph two - I've seen people punished via NJP and a few prosecuted/punished at C-M for mishandling classified information in one way or another, including within an unclassified email system. In this case we don't yet know who originated the emails, who sent the emails or who received the emails. We do know that those classified emails were stored on the unauthorized unsecure server owned by HRC.

Paragraph three - accounts or servers, as appropriate, are immediately isolated when classified information is found in them. It's step one. All the other steps follow, such as determining how it happened, whether there was any compromise, and whether there is any personal responsibility (negligence or intentional), what kind of punishment or prosecution is appropriate, etc.

Bottom line is that people have responsibility with protecting classified information which includes not negligently transmitting or storing it via unauthorized means or locations.
 
My guess is she wanted to skirt FOIA. I think she's in trouble in the civil case. Most of the rest of what you said is gibberish. If you can't separate the FOIA issue from the classification issue, you really shouldn't be talking about this.

That's what I speculated on re: FOIA. But trying to dodge an FOIA isn't criminal?
 
I don't think DOJ officials make this leak without direction. It's ground-softening.
Yes it is. Someone is hoping to make it seem less shocking if she or any of her staffers aren't charged with anything. The FBI leaks are probably designed to let people know that at least some involved think there could be charges. They're probably to provide some political pressure to those at Justice that will make the call. My guess is that either way it goes there will be more leaks. If she's charged anonymous official will say that she shouldn't have been and that politics led to "unwarranted and unprecedented charges" (and I wouldn't be surprised to see that exact wording. If she's not charged anonymous officials will say that there was ample evidence that crimes were committed and that she (and/or staffers) were not charged because she's the Democrat nominee for President. This won't go away in either case - except in the even that she's charged, she drops out of the race, and then she's convicted or acquitted at a trial. Then again, it probably won't even go away then. ;) We're likely stuck with this one for a while, including throughout her Presidency if she's elected.
 
Again, paragraph one isn't true. No one, Republican or Democrat, has "come forward" to say that they've done the "very same things," because no one has.

Paragraph two - I've seen people punished via NJP and a few prosecuted/punished at C-M for mishandling classified information in one way or another, including within an unclassified email system. In this case we don't yet know who originated the emails, who sent the emails or who received the emails. We do know that those classified emails were stored on the unauthorized unsecure server owned by HRC.

Paragraph three - accounts or servers, as appropriate, are immediately isolated when classified information is found in them. It's step one. All the other steps follow, such as determining how it happened, whether there was any compromise, and whether there is any personal responsibility (negligence or intentional), what kind of punishment or prosecution is appropriate, etc.

Bottom line is that people have responsibility with protecting classified information which includes not negligently transmitting or storing it via unauthorized means or locations.

Yet it has occurred at many times at many sites and no one was prosecuted. Colin Power, Rove, who deleted 22,000,000 emails, myself and my experience and I know of a couple others.

Wish in one hand...

Trying to find that former Bush person that recently came forward to support her, it did happen.
 
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That's not what he said.

He said "I never claimed to be a legal expert."

That is not the same as saying "I don't know what I'm talking about."

That's just a less self deprecating way of saying "I don't know what the f*** I'm talking about." It's no different than when someone says "with all due respect" right before they say something completely disrespectful. Like that excuses what you're about to say. Or when someone says "I'm just sayin'" right before or after they say something racist/sexist.
 
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Yet it has occurred at many times at many sites and no one was prosecuted. Colin Power, Rove, who deleted 22,000,000 emails, myself and my experience and I know of a couple others.

Wish in one hand...

Trying to find that former Bush person that recently came forward to support her, it did happen.
Sorry, no one has come forward to say that they used a personal account for all official business and that their account was full of classified information from Confidential to Top Secret/SAP. No one. :)
 
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