Walter Cronkite

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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In the 60s there was ABC, CBS and NBC for tv news. They traded on trust. Cronkite was called “the most trusted man in America.” Folks said “if Walter said it, it was true.”

Then we got to where media manufactured facts. Made up stories about junkies to tout social programs. Made up/accepted falsified documents to damage a candidate they didn’t like.? And once she cheats on you, can you ever trust her again? And now we can fake e-everything. No picture - no video - no quote - no election result - nothing - can be accepted as true. Everything CAN be fake - so it is.

My question is “who do you trust now”? Who does EVERYBODY trust? Seems to me, if folks don’t like the fact, they attack the messenger. Gives them the ability to ignore what they don’t like. And “we” get “facts” from talk shows because they make us feel “good” about our selective acceptance. Its like a celebrity told us they like us too - like Brooke Burke said she wants me because we both support a political idea.

How do we get back to trust and compromise?


I’ll hang up and listen.
 

CO. Hoosier

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In the 60s there was ABC, CBS and NBC for tv news. They traded on trust. Cronkite was called “the most trusted man in America.” Folks said “if Walter said it, it was true.”

Then we got to where media manufactured facts. Made up stories about junkies to tout social programs. Made up/accepted falsified documents to damage a candidate they didn’t like.? And once she cheats on you, can you ever trust her again? And now we can fake e-everything. No picture - no video - no quote - no election result - nothing - can be accepted as true. Everything CAN be fake - so it is.

My question is “who do you trust now”? Who does EVERYBODY trust? Seems to me, if folks don’t like the fact, they attack the messenger. Gives them the ability to ignore what they don’t like. And “we” get “facts” from talk shows because they make us feel “good” about our selective acceptance. Its like a celebrity told us they like us too - like Brooke Burke said she wants me because we both support a political idea.

How do we get back to trust and compromise?


I’ll hang up and listen.
I trust that everyone is biased and untrustworthy. This goes for experts and some guys on the internet alike. Some people give us their biased views with deliberation and some do it unknowingly. The only trustworthy aspect in everything is the strength of my own convictions and the ability to develop those with what I hear, see, touch, taste, and smell.

The ability to compromise is a different matter. The political middle is in a state of collapse all over the world, including here. That is worrisome.
 
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Univee2

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In the 60s there was ABC, CBS and NBC for tv news. They traded on trust. Cronkite was called “the most trusted man in America.” Folks said “if Walter said it, it was true.”

Then we got to where media manufactured facts. Made up stories about junkies to tout social programs. Made up/accepted falsified documents to damage a candidate they didn’t like.? And once she cheats on you, can you ever trust her again? And now we can fake e-everything. No picture - no video - no quote - no election result - nothing - can be accepted as true. Everything CAN be fake - so it is.

My question is “who do you trust now”? Who does EVERYBODY trust? Seems to me, if folks don’t like the fact, they attack the messenger. Gives them the ability to ignore what they don’t like. And “we” get “facts” from talk shows because they make us feel “good” about our selective acceptance. Its like a celebrity told us they like us too - like Brooke Burke said she wants me because we both support a political idea.

How do we get back to trust and compromise?


I’ll hang up and listen.

Derek Trucks on the stereo and a good bourbon.
 

UncleMark

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Sep 1, 2001
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Some people I distrust less than others. That's the best I can do anymore.

I think what broke me was Colin Powell. I didn't think we had any reason to go into Iraq, but gave GWB et al the benefit of the doubt based on Powell. I mean if you can't trust Colin Powell, who can you trust?

That did me in.
 
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Marvin the Martian

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I don't think the news divisions are a problem, I may be more left but I don't see Fox's news division as an issue. It's the opinion artists pretending to be news are the problem. I don't care if it is Cuomo or Carlson.

Now if they want to be comedians dealing with news, like an Oliver, that is fine. Make it clear that is what you are doing. But the problem children try hard to be seen as a Cronkite. No one and I mean no one will confuse Oliver with Cronkite.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Some people I distrust less than others. That's the best I can do anymore.

I think what broke me was Colin Powell. I didn't think we had any reason to go into Iraq, but gave GWB et al the benefit of the doubt based on Powell. I mean if you can't trust Colin Powell, who can you trust?

That did me in.
Same for me, but I will add Tony Blair. It was obvious we had to go to war and I backed Bush.

They either lied or didn't investigate nearly deeply enough (read completely trusting Curveball).
 
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CO. Hoosier

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I don't think the news divisions are a problem, I may be more left but I don't see Fox's news division as an issue. It's the opinion artists pretending to be news are the problem. I don't care if it is Cuomo or Carlson.

Now if they want to be comedians dealing with news, like an Oliver, that is fine. Make it clear that is what you are doing. But the problem children try hard to be seen as a Cronkite. No one and I mean no one will confuse Oliver with Cronkite.
John Oliver shouldn’t be confused with Cronkite. But he should be confused with Jay Leno or Johnny Carson; except he won’t be. Comedians, like most celebrities, have forsaken middle America. For whatever reason late night shows, oscars emmies, Grammies etc are nothing but leftist celebrations with few f-bombs seen or bleeped. People like Oliver and Kimmel have ruined entertainment. Similar people are doing it in sports. The vast middle America doesn’t give 2 shits about this brand of politainment. I don’t know why supposedly smart and capable people keep on with it. It brings down trust and heightens disgust in all of us. Entertainment should be an antidote to strife and hate, instead it’s a cause.
 
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UncleMark

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John Oliver shouldn’t be confused with Cronkite. But he should be confused with Jay Leno or Johnny Carson; except he won’t be. Comedians, like most celebrities, have forsaken middle America. For whatever reason late night shows, oscars emmies, Grammies etc are nothing but leftist celebrations with few f-bombs seen or bleeped. People like Oliver and Kimmel have ruined entertainment. Similar people are doing it in sports. The vast middle America doesn’t give 2 shits about this brand of politainment. I don’t know why supposedly smart and capable people keep on with it. It brings down trust and heightens disgust in all of us. Entertainment should be an antidote to strife and hate, instead it’s a cause.

old man shouting at clouds
 
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Bulk VanderHuge

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My 89 year old dad used to tell me, "Believe nothing you hear, and only 1/2 of what you see.

He's still pretty wise for a liberal, as evidenced by the fact that my mom is a Trumpy Republican, and they have been married for over 70 years.
 
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Marvin the Martian

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John Oliver shouldn’t be confused with Cronkite. But he should be confused with Jay Leno or Johnny Carson; except he won’t be. Comedians, like most celebrities, have forsaken middle America. For whatever reason late night shows, oscars emmies, Grammies etc are nothing but leftist celebrations with few f-bombs seen or bleeped. People like Oliver and Kimmel have ruined entertainment. Similar people are doing it in sports. The vast middle America doesn’t give 2 shits about this brand of politainment. I don’t know why supposedly smart and capable people keep on with it. It brings down trust and heightens disgust in all of us. Entertainment should be an antidote to strife and hate, instead it’s a cause.
Do you view PJ O'Roarke the same?
 

CO. Hoosier

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Do you view PJ O'Roarke the same?
He is lol funny. Kinda like Mark Twain in a number of ways. We can use more if both. In contemporary times I’d put him much closer to George Carlin, John Stewart or Bill Maher. I think all three put satire and comedy ahead of politics.but the politics shows through.

The writers for Babylon Bee are really good but they are obviously political first.
 

Marvin the Martian

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My 89 year old dad used to tell me, "Believe nothing you hear, and only 1/2 of what you see.

He's still pretty wise for a liberal, as evidenced by the fact that my mom is a Trumpy Republican, and they have been married for over 70 years.
I mentioned Oliver, I like watching him. But I would never use anything he said without checking it out.

Reminds me of the one time I used Kos in a discussion. He had a long article "proving" the font in the letter CBS used on Bush existed at the time. He was way wrong, I have never been back to his site.

I am reading Bomber Mafia, in it is a discussion of Churchill's good friend Frederick Lindemann. Lindemann was brilliant, but somewhat amoral. He had what seems to be an eidetic memory. But he was also known to lie in debates if it helped his cause, in fact he stated morality was anything that helped his friends. Anyway, that reminds me a lot of modern discussions here, and all over America
 
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brianiu

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May 11, 2008
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John Oliver shouldn’t be confused with Cronkite. But he should be confused with Jay Leno or Johnny Carson; except he won’t be. Comedians, like most celebrities, have forsaken middle America. For whatever reason late night shows, oscars emmies, Grammies etc are nothing but leftist celebrations with few f-bombs seen or bleeped. People like Oliver and Kimmel have ruined entertainment. Similar people are doing it in sports. The vast middle America doesn’t give 2 shits about this brand of politainment. I don’t know why supposedly smart and capable people keep on with it. It brings down trust and heightens disgust in all of us. Entertainment should be an antidote to strife and hate, instead it’s a cause.
I wouldn’t think Oliver would ever want to be confused with Jay Leno. Letterman was great though. If your complaint is there isn’t enough middle-brow entertainment anymore, it’s literally all over the place, including the Oscars, network and cable TV and any streaming service you can think of. There are more options now than ever, for every taste imaginable.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Clinton had the same basic opinions about Iraq that Bush did so I think all of them were fooled.
I am not disagreeing. Saddam was playing a game. He needed Iran convinced he had those weapons, he needed us convinced he did not. That was too tough to pull off.

We had signs he did not have weapons, we chose the signs that we wanted to be true.
 

TommyCracker

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News has never been without slant, it's just been much more subtle and journalists were simply taught first to be watchdogs, that was their role. Still they have always protected and shaped the narrative. It's impossible not to have bias.

That being said, today you have to understand the slant and then ask yourself if whatever they are saying makes sense with the slant of what you are watching.

Don't confuse opinion with news. Opinion is entertainment designed to fire up an audience.

I'm surprised that there isn't a point/counterpoint out there. Two equal powered opinion commentaries.

Sure they tend to have a token opposite opinion on a panel or in a segment but they are basically set up as punching bags.

It's why podcasts are becoming more relevant which is scary because who the hell knows what's being said on your favorite podcast. You can find any opinion/entertainment that you want turning it into a warm and feel good echo chamber vs getting multiple povs and choosing which one makes the most sense.
 

Stuffshot

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John Oliver shouldn’t be confused with Cronkite. But he should be confused with Jay Leno or Johnny Carson; except he won’t be. Comedians, like most celebrities, have forsaken middle America. For whatever reason late night shows, oscars emmies, Grammies etc are nothing but leftist celebrations with few f-bombs seen or bleeped. People like Oliver and Kimmel have ruined entertainment. Similar people are doing it in sports. The vast middle America doesn’t give 2 shits about this brand of politainment. I don’t know why supposedly smart and capable people keep on with it. It brings down trust and heightens disgust in all of us. Entertainment should be an antidote to strife and hate, instead it’s a cause.
You sound like a guy who never heard of Mark Twain/Clemens, Will Rogers, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin or Vaughn Meador. Political humor has been around forever.
 

F.Fletch

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Aug 12, 2018
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In the 60s there was ABC, CBS and NBC for tv news. They traded on trust. Cronkite was called “the most trusted man in America.” Folks said “if Walter said it, it was true.”

Then we got to where media manufactured facts. Made up stories about junkies to tout social programs. Made up/accepted falsified documents to damage a candidate they didn’t like.? And once she cheats on you, can you ever trust her again? And now we can fake e-everything. No picture - no video - no quote - no election result - nothing - can be accepted as true. Everything CAN be fake - so it is.

My question is “who do you trust now”? Who does EVERYBODY trust? Seems to me, if folks don’t like the fact, they attack the messenger. Gives them the ability to ignore what they don’t like. And “we” get “facts” from talk shows because they make us feel “good” about our selective acceptance. Its like a celebrity told us they like us too - like Brooke Burke said she wants me because we both support a political idea.

How do we get back to trust and compromise?


I’ll hang up and listen.
I used to watch "Hardball" with Chris Matthews religiously back when he was on CNBC and was sane. Long before his "thrill up my leg" comment about Obama. One night he had Cronkite on, and he got him to admit he was a liberal.

Ironically, I found Matthews much more even-handed on CNBC than on MSNBC. He would routinely call himself "the most conservative Democrat" around.

If you're looking for down-the-middle questioning, I think the only place you're gonna find it is on CSPAN, obviously sans Steve Scully. Still haven't figured out Brian Lamb's political leanings after all these years.
 

Bill4411

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I remember when people thought Cronkite was a liberal. It’s amazing that he now is accepted as the gold standard of journalism when the old newsmen really most venerated, Edward R. Murrow.
 
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bwcoach

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My 89 year old dad used to tell me, "Believe nothing you hear, and only 1/2 of what you see.

He's still pretty wise for a liberal, as evidenced by the fact that my mom is a Trumpy Republican, and they have been married for over 70 years.
Amen to that. That’s what my dad always said.
 

Marvin the Martian

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I remember when people thought Cronkite was a liberal. It’s amazing that he now is accepted as the gold standard of journalism when the old newsmen really most venerated, Edward R. Murrow.
Murrow was revered, but he wanted the US in the war and that colored his reporting. He was not a neutral observer.
 

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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Don Lemon does a really good job of calling it down the middle.

R9acf46eba879705e9ff0f3c7a288cb88
 

UncleMark

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Clinton had the same basic opinions about Iraq that Bush did so I think all of them were fooled.
HRC and GWB were happy to find a reason to take down Saddam. He had supposedly plotted against GHWB ("He tried to kill my daddy!") and had thumbed his nose at Bill Clinton's no fly zones. Both HRC and GWB had familial scores to settle.
 
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HooDatGuy

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HRC and GWB were happy to find a reason to take down Saddam. He had supposedly plotted against GHWB ("He tried to kill my daddy!") and had thumbed his nose at Bill Clinton's no fly zones. Both HRC and GWB had familial scores to settle.
Those Clinton/ Bush neocons are what this country needs right now.

They didn’t give a shit about appealing to wokes or slack jawed R’s. They protected the corporate interests, exerted American influence abroad, and kept the wheels on the track.

When did we lose our way so badly? We’re electing presidents who incite culture wars inside our own country.

Obama, Trump and Biden all share blame.
 

BradStevens

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I don't think the news divisions are a problem, I may be more left but I don't see Fox's news division as an issue. It's the opinion artists pretending to be news are the problem. I don't care if it is Cuomo or Carlson.

Now if they want to be comedians dealing with news, like an Oliver, that is fine. Make it clear that is what you are doing. But the problem children try hard to be seen as a Cronkite. No one and I mean no one will confuse Oliver with Cronkite.
I disagree with this and maybe it is a generational thing. But I know A LOT of successful professionals (25-55) who take their cues, news, and opinions from John Oliver and formerly the Daily Show. I assume they are not alone.
 

Marvin the Martian

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I disagree with this and maybe it is a generational thing. But I know A LOT of successful professionals (25-55) who take their cues, news, and opinions from John Oliver and formerly the Daily Show. I assume they are not alone.
I do love Oliver. I find him much better than a Hannity because 1) he approaches his show with humor which destroys the idea he is a serious journalist and 2) he is not on a news channel.

CO is the one that hated Oliver. But all of them, Oliver included, lead to an issue. Americans are not that interested in current events. If one spends their hour a day watching an Oliver or a Hannity, they are not close to getting a well-rounded presentation.
 

twenty02

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I do love Oliver. I find him much better than a Hannity because 1) he approaches his show with humor which destroys the idea he is a serious journalist and 2) he is not on a news channel.

CO is the one that hated Oliver. But all of them, Oliver included, lead to an issue. Americans are not that interested in current events. If one spends their hour a day watching an Oliver or a Hannity, they are not close to getting a well-rounded presentation.


Even when I may disagree with Oliver and agree with Hannity.... I'd still rather watch Oliver. Hannity cannot hold Oliver's jock strap. Not even a fair match
 

DrHoops

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In the 60s there was ABC, CBS and NBC for tv news. They traded on trust. Cronkite was called “the most trusted man in America.” Folks said “if Walter said it, it was true.”

Then we got to where media manufactured facts. Made up stories about junkies to tout social programs. Made up/accepted falsified documents to damage a candidate they didn’t like.? And once she cheats on you, can you ever trust her again? And now we can fake e-everything. No picture - no video - no quote - no election result - nothing - can be accepted as true. Everything CAN be fake - so it is.

My question is “who do you trust now”? Who does EVERYBODY trust? Seems to me, if folks don’t like the fact, they attack the messenger. Gives them the ability to ignore what they don’t like. And “we” get “facts” from talk shows because they make us feel “good” about our selective acceptance. Its like a celebrity told us they like us too - like Brooke Burke said she wants me because we both support a political idea.

How do we get back to trust and compromise?


I’ll hang up and listen.
Deplatform Fox News. End of problem.
 

DrHoops

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Those Clinton/ Bush neocons are what this country needs right now.

They didn’t give a shit about appealing to wokes or slack jawed R’s. They protected the corporate interests, exerted American influence abroad, and kept the wheels on the track.

When did we lose our way so badly? We’re electing presidents who incite culture wars inside our own country.

Obama, Trump and Biden all share blame.
LOL.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Even when I may disagree with Oliver and agree with Hannity.... I'd still rather watch Oliver. Hannity cannot hold Oliver's jock strap. Not even a fair match
The handful of times I tried to fact check Oliver I was content with what he said. But that still does not mean he adequately presents the con side.

But yes, there is no comparison. I have not watched Hannity in years, but hated him. Probably a more fair comparison for Oliver was Limbaugh, but I felt even there Oliver won hands down.

All that said, all these people (throw in Colbert and the rest of late night) struggle mightily with no audience.
 

CO. Hoosier

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I wouldn’t think Oliver would ever want to be confused with Jay Leno. Letterman was great though. If your complaint is there isn’t enough middle-brow entertainment anymore, it’s literally all over the place, including the Oscars, network and cable TV and any streaming service you can think of. There are more options now than ever, for every taste imaginable.
What is middlebrow entertainment?
 

CO. Hoosier

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I disagree with this and maybe it is a generational thing. But I know A LOT of successful professionals (25-55) who take their cues, news, and opinions from John Oliver and formerly the Daily Show. I assume they are not alone.
Ha. That explains a lot. Do these people run MLB and Coke?
 

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