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Virgina Governor’s hours are numbered, per any standard

I agree. I think much of the outrage is disingenuous posing. How many of these people were calling for Robert Byrd's head in the 70's, 80's, 90's, or beyond? And that guy was an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK. The fact is...whether any of The Woke admit it or not...things were different 35 years ago. If that's not so, why was Robert Byrd in office for so long?
You two are both wrong. This isn't just posing or virtue signalling. Times have changed -- at least if you're a Democrat. This isn't the same time as it was decades ago when West Virginia sent a former Klansman to the Senate or Democrats defended Bill Clinton against what really was a right wing conspiracy.

Democratic politicians are calling for the resignation of other Democratic politicians because they actually believe that racism and sexual assault are disqualifiers. And even if some politicians are posing, they're doing that because Democratic voters demand that they do.

Ralph Northam's "poor costume decisions" didn't just hurt his support among talking heads and politicians. His support plummeted 40 points overnight among actual Virginians. Democratic politicians are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are because Democratic voters are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are.

And let's just stop for a reality check. I can't read this board for a single day without encountering claims that modern Democrats have become annoyingly woke social justice warriors hung up on identity politics. But now we're supposed to imagine that nothing at all has changed, and it's just like when Robert Byrd (deceased) was a senator. You guys really need to get your stories straight.

Nor do I understand how it's possible for Democrats to have demonstrated hypocrisy by calling for the resignation of Democratic politicians. Even if Democrats are able to find a way out of this mess without handing Virginia to a Republican who was elected because someone drew his name out of a bowl, that still wouldn't be hypocrisy.

Those old yearbook pictures have aged badly. They were taken when times should already have changed, even though the changes are much clearer now. Well, times are changing again. I wonder how all this will read 20 years from now. Will people look back and wonder, "How did Democrats get all hung up on racism and sexual assault, when they should have tended to something important?" Maybe. But I doubt it.
 
You two are both wrong. This isn't just posing or virtue signalling. Times have changed -- at least if you're a Democrat. This isn't the same time as it was decades ago when West Virginia sent a former Klansman to the Senate or Democrats defended Bill Clinton against what really was a right wing conspiracy.

Democratic politicians are calling for the resignation of other Democratic politicians because they actually believe that racism and sexual assault are disqualifiers. And even if some politicians are posing, they're doing that because Democratic voters demand that they do.

Ralph Northam's "poor costume decisions" didn't just hurt his support among talking heads and politicians. His support plummeted 40 points overnight among actual Virginians. Democratic politicians are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are because Democratic voters are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are.

And let's just stop for a reality check. I can't read this board for a single day without encountering claims that modern Democrats have become annoyingly woke social justice warriors hung up on identity politics. But now we're supposed to imagine that nothing at all has changed, and it's just like when Robert Byrd (deceased) was a senator. You guys really need to get your stories straight.

Nor do I understand how it's possible for Democrats to have demonstrated hypocrisy by calling for the resignation of Democratic politicians. Even if Democrats are able to find a way out of this mess without handing Virginia to a Republican who was elected because someone drew his name out of a bowl, that still wouldn't be hypocrisy.

Those old yearbook pictures have aged badly. They were taken when times should already have changed, even though the changes are much clearer now. Well, times are changing again. I wonder how all this will read 20 years from now. Will people look back and wonder, "How did Democrats get all hung up on racism and sexual assault, when they should have tended to something important?" Maybe. But I doubt it.



My viewpoint is not based on anything other than the age/life-point of these people at the time these things occurred.... Not the era it occurred in. I don't think people that have lived exemplary adult and professional lives should be disqualified from service because of poor choices (to an obvious limit) made during coming of age years.

But again....I'm not the target market for Dems, I suppose. So I just kind of watch from the sidelines.
 
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You two are both wrong. This isn't just posing or virtue signalling. Times have changed -- at least if you're a Democrat. This isn't the same time as it was decades ago when West Virginia sent a former Klansman to the Senate or Democrats defended Bill Clinton against what really was a right wing conspiracy.

Democratic politicians are calling for the resignation of other Democratic politicians because they actually believe that racism and sexual assault are disqualifiers. And even if some politicians are posing, they're doing that because Democratic voters demand that they do.

Ralph Northam's "poor costume decisions" didn't just hurt his support among talking heads and politicians. His support plummeted 40 points overnight among actual Virginians. Democratic politicians are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are because Democratic voters are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are.

And let's just stop for a reality check. I can't read this board for a single day without encountering claims that modern Democrats have become annoyingly woke social justice warriors hung up on identity politics. But now we're supposed to imagine that nothing at all has changed, and it's just like when Robert Byrd (deceased) was a senator. You guys really need to get your stories straight.

Nor do I understand how it's possible for Democrats to have demonstrated hypocrisy by calling for the resignation of Democratic politicians. Even if Democrats are able to find a way out of this mess without handing Virginia to a Republican who was elected because someone drew his name out of a bowl, that still wouldn't be hypocrisy.

Those old yearbook pictures have aged badly. They were taken when times should already have changed, even though the changes are much clearer now. Well, times are changing again. I wonder how all this will read 20 years from now. Will people look back and wonder, "How did Democrats get all hung up on racism and sexual assault, when they should have tended to something important?" Maybe. But I doubt it.

The only hypocrisy I see is the refusal to call for Fairfax's resignation. What he was credibly accused of was more serious than Northam, and the AG. He was accused of a criminal offense by a Stanford professor who gained nothing from reliving her horrific trauma.. He then proceeded to smear political allies and his accuser. Yet, no one in the democratic party would call for his resignation. Why? Imo, the sole reason is because they did not want to be seen as attacking an up and coming black leader. If he was a white male, forget about it. Now we have a second rape accusation from a Duke classmate. If they continue to stand by fairfax and remain silent it's an outrage of unimaginable proportions.
 
You two are both wrong. This isn't just posing or virtue signalling. Times have changed -- at least if you're a Democrat. This isn't the same time as it was decades ago when West Virginia sent a former Klansman to the Senate or Democrats defended Bill Clinton against what really was a right wing conspiracy.

Democratic politicians are calling for the resignation of other Democratic politicians because they actually believe that racism and sexual assault are disqualifiers. And even if some politicians are posing, they're doing that because Democratic voters demand that they do.

Ralph Northam's "poor costume decisions" didn't just hurt his support among talking heads and politicians. His support plummeted 40 points overnight among actual Virginians. Democratic politicians are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are because Democratic voters are way more upset about this shit than Republicans are.

And let's just stop for a reality check. I can't read this board for a single day without encountering claims that modern Democrats have become annoyingly woke social justice warriors hung up on identity politics. But now we're supposed to imagine that nothing at all has changed, and it's just like when Robert Byrd (deceased) was a senator. You guys really need to get your stories straight.

Nor do I understand how it's possible for Democrats to have demonstrated hypocrisy by calling for the resignation of Democratic politicians. Even if Democrats are able to find a way out of this mess without handing Virginia to a Republican who was elected because someone drew his name out of a bowl, that still wouldn't be hypocrisy.

Those old yearbook pictures have aged badly. They were taken when times should already have changed, even though the changes are much clearer now. Well, times are changing again. I wonder how all this will read 20 years from now. Will people look back and wonder, "How did Democrats get all hung up on racism and sexual assault, when they should have tended to something important?" Maybe. But I doubt it.

Of course times have changed. My point with Byrd was that the photo events in question took place at a time when having a former Klansman in the senate was no big deal. I’m guessing the costumes in question, while ill advised, were probably not shocking at the time.

As I indicated earlier, I have a certain discomfort with applying modern sensibilities to past behavior.

As far as the Lt gov, there’s no excusing that type of thing.
 
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So that only leaves 17 others....
And both things can be true. People do and say things to advance their careers.
I may be mistaken, but I thought those were the only two actual assault allegations, outside of Ivana, who now says she was never raped.

I thought rest were misconduct allegations, stuff like walking into the ladies shower. Not that that’s any better.
 
My viewpoint is not based on anything other than the age/life-point of these people at the time these things occurred.... Not the era it occurred in. I don't think people that have lived exemplary adult and professional lives should be disqualified from service because of poor choices (to an obvious limit) made during coming of age years.

But again....I'm not the target market for Dems, I suppose. So I just kind of watch from the sidelines.
Ralph Northam and I are both 59 years old. I attended law school while he was attending the Eastern Virginia Medical School. We were both 25 in 1984. Sadly, I don't have to imagine what it was like to be 25 in 1984. That's part of my life.

It's not inconceivable that someone I went to law school with could have done something so outrageous, both because there are racist assholes outside of Virginia, and because assholes tend to be concentrated in law schools. But as I keep saying, this shit would not have flown in my (northern) law school. The people who did that shit would have been barbecued.

Someone could someday unearth photos of me having way too much fun in ways that might not be strictly legal. (And by "someday" I meant earlier this evening.) So yes, I get that decisions have consequences. But I was in no danger of Northam's decisions at his age, and to the Northams of the world I happily say this: I knew you then, and I sneer at you now; go f#ck yourselves.
 
I'm of the opinion that neither the Gov nor the AG should resign over poor costume decisions from 30+ years ago. But I also found the Kavanaugh thing ridiculous (which supposedly occurred at an even much younger age). So I'm not likely the type of person that matters in these topics.

I don't know the details of the It Gov....but if true.... that's actually a full fledged adult operating at a professional level....and fully fair game.

That kind of "poor costume design" got a kid I know kicked out of college a couple of years after the Governor and AG were in school and the kid was 19. FWIW, the AG handled it all much better than the Gov (IMHO).
 
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I agree. I think much of the outrage is disingenuous posing. How many of these people were calling for Robert Byrd's head in the 70's, 80's, 90's, or beyond? And that guy was an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK. The fact is...whether any of The Woke admit it or not...things were different 35 years ago. If that's not so, why was Robert Byrd in office for so long?

Um...your calendars need some work. So, Robert Byrd was in the KKK more than 70 years ago. It was an "albatross" for his political career (his words, not mine) in those 70's, 80's, and 90's you muse upon.

In those very 80's and 90's you speak of, blackface and dressing up in Klan robes wasn't a "no biggie" kind of thing. It was a "you shouldn't do that" sort of thing. So much so that the Klan was "an albatross around the neck" for Robert Byrd's political career (his words, not mine) at the very time that Ralph Northam decided to wear blackface (and/or dress up in a Klan robe?). And that was at an age decidedly beyond when we really have to start dealing with the consequences of our actions. Still, if he had responded to it better as an ostensibly mature adult holding a position of immense power and influence over people's lives years after the fact, people might be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. All that said, if it was a thing in your life where you aren't sure whether a photo of someone wearing blackface standing with someone in a Klan robe is you, that's a problem.
 
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The only hypocrisy I see is the refusal to call for Fairfax's resignation. What he was credibly accused of was more serious than Northam, and the AG. He was accused of a criminal offense by a Stanford professor who gained nothing from reliving her horrific trauma.. He then proceeded to smear political allies and his accuser. Yet, no one in the democratic party would call for his resignation. Why? Imo, the sole reason is because they did not want to be seen as attacking an up and coming black leader. If he was a white male, forget about it. Now we have a second rape accusation from a Duke classmate. If they continue to stand by fairfax and remain silent it's an outrage of unimaginable proportions.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/08/politics/dems-justin-fairfax-resign/index.html
 
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Knee-jerk reaction based on headline phobia. This requires an investigation. We can't ruin a man based on unproven statements in a politically charged environment. Way too many agenda-driven folks willing to accuse on both sides.

An investigation in all these situations is the reasonable and responsible thing to do. I mean a real investigation, not some farcical “investigation” like they did with Kavanaugh where people were begging to be questioned by the FBI and were ignored.
 
An investigation in all these situations is the reasonable and responsible thing to do. I mean a real investigation, not some farcical “investigation” like they did with Kavanaugh where people were begging to be questioned by the FBI and were ignored.

Yep. We have to figure out how to do them quickly but with enough credibility to come to a reasonable conclusion. He says She Says is always difficult and and sometimes is settled as no proof becaus their is none.
 
There's no comparing this to Kavanaugh. He should not be a sitting SC judge and is forevermore a pock mark on Republicans. Those who don't understand this are dumb as all get out.
 
Apparently most Democrats (57%) and most African-Americans (58%) don't think the Gov should resign. That surprises me because based on the posts here, I thought it was near unanimous among Democrats that his days were numbered and he had to resign. 65% of Virginians didn't think that they knew enough to determine whether the LtGov should resign (this was before 2nd allegation) and that an unproven allegation alone doesn't make a person guilty.

Poll: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.72505a8a2f9a
 
Apparently most Democrats (57%) and most African-Americans (58%) don't think the Gov should resign. That surprises me because based on the posts here, I thought it was near unanimous among Democrats that his days were numbered and he had to resign. 65% of Virginians didn't think that they knew enough to determine whether the LtGov should resign (this was before 2nd allegation) and that an unproven allegation alone doesn't make a person guilty.

Poll: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.72505a8a2f9a
It's become clear that if everyone resigned who ought to resign, this would hand control of the executive branch to the very Republicans who just lost the last election -- and to the very Republican who holds his seat because someone drew a name out of a bowl. In any event, the party hasn't sorted any way out, and no one is resigning.

Virginia Democrats are hunkering down to the demoralizing reality that they'll head into the 2020 elections with a badly damaged leadership and a badly damaged brand. This is a disaster for Virginia Democrats.
 
Virginia Democrats are hunkering down to the demoralizing reality that they'll head into the 2020 elections with a badly damaged leadership and a badly damaged brand. This is a disaster for Virginia Democrats.

Political disasters and scandals don’t seem to hurt republicans as much.
 
Political disasters and scandals don’t seem to hurt republicans as much.
However immune Republicans may be, Democrats are not immune to racism or sexual assault. That's unexploded ordnance, waiting to go off.

Here the ordnance didn't quite kill the politicos off, but it may leave them as political zombies. They might still hold the levers of government, but without the political capital to accomplish anything, and instead of leading the party in 2020, they'll be holding it back. Virginia Republicans must be giddy.
 
However immune Republicans may be, Democrats are not immune to racism or sexual assault. That's unexploded ordnance, waiting to go off.

Here the ordnance didn't quite kill the politicos off, but it may leave them as political zombies. They might still hold the levers of government, but without the political capital to accomplish anything, and instead of leading the party in 2020, they'll be holding it back. Virginia Republicans must be giddy.

I’m sure they are. Voters have this magical ability to remember everything a dem did and suddenly develop full-on amnesia when it comes to republicans.
 
However immune Republicans may be, Democrats are not immune to racism or sexual assault. That's unexploded ordnance, waiting to go off.

Here the ordnance didn't quite kill the politicos off, but it may leave them as political zombies. They might still hold the levers of government, but without the political capital to accomplish anything, and instead of leading the party in 2020, they'll be holding it back. Virginia Republicans must be giddy.

What ought to happen imo... Fairfax should be thrown out of office. I would push the governor out as well. Herring appears to have been forthright about his past transgressions. So long as he has no other baggage in his history, he should take over. Let someone primary him in 2020 if they so choose.

I'm most concerned about the national election. Virginia was thought to be a blue state. That better not turn into a 2020 tossups on account of these sickos.
 
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with 8 billion far more pressing matters at stake, i doubt many dem voters, even blacks, will stay home or vote Pub because of this, nor will it be a big deal with swing voters either.

no way should the gov resign over a trumped up media/social media false indignation mob.
 
Just heard some people speaking about this. Their response was that in the short period Dems have been in office, they have expanded Medicare and implemented some important criminal justice reforms. Both were popular things Dems campaigned on. That may be one reason , from a poll cited, that even Black people were against Northam leaving office.
 
Just heard some people speaking about this. Their response was that in the short period Dems have been in office, they have expanded Medicare and implemented some important criminal justice reforms. Both were popular things Dems campaigned on. That may be one reason , from a poll cited, that even Black people were against Northam leaving office.

or maybe it was a totally lame reason to try extort the gov to resign over in the first place, and even a lot of blacks realized it.
 
I’m sure they are. Voters have this magical ability to remember everything a dem did and suddenly develop full-on amnesia when it comes to republicans.

Interesting that Virginians appear to prefer lying racists and sexual predators to republicans.
 
Just heard some people speaking about this. Their response was that in the short period Dems have been in office, they have expanded Medicare and implemented some important criminal justice reforms. Both were popular things Dems campaigned on. That may be one reason , from a poll cited, that even Black people were against Northam leaving office.
Yes, I linked the poll which showed most Virginia Democrats and Africa-Americans didn’t think he should resign. This is after our WC Democrats nearly unanimously posted it was necessary for him to resign as part of principle of holding their Democratic office holders accountable for their racist actions.
 
Yes, I linked the poll which showed most Virginia Democrats and Africa-Americans didn’t think he should resign. This is after our WC Democrats nearly unanimously posted it was necessary for him to resign as part of principle of holding their Democratic office holders accountable for their racist actions.
When the Northam news broke, Democrats rose as one to demand his resignation, and his Virginia support dropped by over 40 points overnight. Then the news broke that the lieutenant governor was credibly accused of sexual assault. Then the news broke that the attorney general had blackfaced skeletons in his closet. Then it became clear that if everyone resigned who ought to, Democrats would hand the executive branch right back to the Republicans they' just defeated -- and that the Republican speaker of the house who'd occupy the governor's office had gained his position because someone drew a name out of a bowl.

In light of these developments, Democrats are struggling to make the least worst decision in response to a political disaster that has Virginia Republicans giddy. Your post is oblivious to all of this.
 
When the Northam news broke, Democrats rose as one to demand his resignation, and his Virginia support dropped by over 40 points overnight. Then the news broke that the lieutenant governor was credibly accused of sexual assault. Then the news broke that the attorney general had blackfaced skeletons in his closet. Then it became clear that if everyone resigned who ought to, Democrats would hand the executive branch right back to the Republicans they' just defeated -- and that the Republican speaker of the house who'd occupy the governor's office had gained his position because someone drew a name out of a bowl.

In light of these developments, Democrats are struggling to make the least worst decision in response to a political disaster that has Virginia Republicans giddy. Your post is oblivious to all of this.
Not at all, I agree with you and essentially said the same in an earlier post.
 
Then I don’t understand why you’re dissing those who called for Northam’s resignation.
My point in making essentially the same post was that these newly bedrock principles would be sacrificed to keep a Democrat in that office. There was pushback on that notion, but not from you. You think the objective of keeping the office was more important than the principles. We agree on what Democrats would do - and I also think Republicans would do essentially the same in this situation.
 
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My point in making essentially the same post was that these newly bedrock principles would be sacrificed to keep a Democrat in that office. There was pushback on that notion, but not from you. You think the objective of keeping the office was more important than the principles. We agree on what Democrats would do - and I also think Republicans would do essentially the same in this situation.
I have never thought that Democrats should give the executive branch back to Republicans. I'm dismayed it's come to that, because it's a disaster for Virginia Democrats.

It's obtuse to call people hypocrites if they don't carry every principle to its logical extreme. Every principle collides with other principles. That's why free speech advocates don't become hypocrites when they agree it should be illegal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

And no, Republicans obviously wouldn't react the same way in this situation, because they'd never have become so exercised about the blackface. (Or the sexual assault.) Polls show that Democrats care much more about this than Republicans do.

Indeed, what principles do Republicans have these days? I don't think the party that knowingly elected the unfit corrupt pussy-grabbing racist imbecile is really in a position to throw stones.
 
I believe everything except Fairfax's situation (which is TBD) will mostly blow over by 2021 and historically African-American voters have been pretty pragmatic (if you look at the polling, Northam's support has dropped much less amongst African-Americans than White voters).
 
I have never thought that Democrats should give the executive branch back to Republicans. I'm dismayed it's come to that, because it's a disaster for Virginia Democrats.

It's obtuse to call people hypocrites if they don't carry every principle to its logical extreme. Every principle collides with other principles. That's why free speech advocates don't become hypocrites when they agree it should be illegal to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

And no, Republicans obviously wouldn't react the same way in this situation, because they'd never have become so exercised about the blackface. (Or the sexual assault.) Polls show that Democrats care much more about this than Republicans do.

Indeed, what principles do Republicans have these days? I don't think the party that knowingly elected the unfit corrupt pussy-grabbing racist imbecile is really in a position to throw stones.
I’m not the party and I didn’t elect the imbecile. I’ll throw a stone or two when I feel like it, thank you.
 
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