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VanPastorMan, are you holding services today?


Thanks for that link, Marvin. It was a really interesting read and I dug deeper into some of his writing. Really appreciate that guy's perspective, in particular this quote from another column:

"The whole key is to love everyone. Life’s just too short to spend it deciding who does and doesn’t deserve your affection. Assume that everyone deserves it, and give it freely. Why not? A hug costs no more than a snub. And unlike a snub, a hug can save someone’s life."
 
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The article pointed out a sin that is mentioned in Romans 1. In verse 32 it says, 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
So then you concede that you (parroting your Bible) believe that homosexuals and those who support them deserve death. Gotchya.
 
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The article pointed out a sin that is mentioned in Romans 1. In verse 32 it says, 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
This bill is an example of verse 32. Now I pointed out before that homosexuality is not the only sin mentioned in Romans 1. Idolatry is also mentioned. If there was a pro idolatry bill proposed by the House I would use verse 32 in the exact same way.

@VanPastorMan, if you believe that they "deserve death", aren't you advocating for that death? And if so, how do you reconcile it with your statement that you would never wish ill on the guy who worked for you at Wendy's? Isn't stating that someone deserves to die wishing ill on someone?
 
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Before we became Colts fans my wife was a Bear supporter and I rooted for the Packers.

NFL Sundays aren't as exciting as they once were.

Now the only thing we have left to argue about is why Hillary lost in 2016.
 
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Before we became Colts fans my wife was a Bear supporter and I rooted for the Packers.

NFL Sundays aren't as exciting as they once were.

Now the only thing we have left to argue about is why Hillary lost in 2016.

A Bears' fan and a Packers' fan in the same house? Did you hide all of the sharp objects?
 
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A Bears' fan and a Packers' fan in the same house? Did you hide all of the sharp objects?

My Brother (Packer fan and football expert) argued with my Wife about who was a better quarterback...Bart Starr or Bill Wade.

My Brother (Princeton graduate 1944) ended the discussion by declaring, "Now you are being obtuse".

Later and in private my Wife asked me what my Brother meant. I replied, "How would I know, I didn't go to any Ivy League school".
 
So, is VSM saying that being born homosexual is a sin? That sounds a little like the hardcore Jewish people of Jesus' day (the ones he spoke against) believing that lepers and blind people were sinners not to be touched.
 
Well, maybe this is a place to wedge this into a thread . . .

In Works of Love, Kierkegaard focused on those last two words of the Great Commandment "as yourself", which apparently is a kind of throw-away phrase for many people when they read the Great Commandment. Why is it a throwaway phrase? Because most people think of themselves as loving themselves - of course we do! Just ask us! Most of our lives and economy are dedicated to loving ourselves . . . aren't they!

Kierkegaard takes up this challenge and in the course of analyzing it, reveals to us that loving ourselves as we would presuppose to love our neighbor is a much more difficult task than we would assume . . . in fact, Kierkegaard's discussion of "as yourself" reveals that loving ourselves is in fact the same thing as loving neighbor:

If anyone is unwilling to learn from Christianity to love himself in the right way, he cannot love the neighbor either. He can perhaps hold together with another or a few other persons, “through thick and thin,” as it is called, but this is by no means loving the neighbor. To love yourself in the right way and to love the neighbor correspond perfectly to one another, fundamentally they are one and the same thing. When the Law’s "as yourself" has wrested from you the self-love that Christianity sadly enough must presuppose to be in every human being, then you actually have learned to love yourself. The Law is therefore: you shall love yourself in the same way as you love your neighbor when you love him as yourself.

Who's ever read the "love your neighbor" part of the Great Commandment as an indictment on our inability to love ourselves?

In this light it also becomes clear that the "love your neighbor" commandment can be read virtually as a mathematical formula: Love of neighbor = Love of self . . . only Kierkegaard would presumably tack onto both sides of the phrase "the right way". In other words, loving one's self, like loving one's neighbor, the right way requires us to step outside of our own selfish egos to consider - and presumably act upon - the best possible for ourselves and for our neighbors. For a crude example, one wouldn't wish upon a neighbor an addiction to binge drinking alcohol that causes the neighbor to drink repeatedly to such excess that the neighbor accumulates lethal levels of alcohol toxicity in the neighbor's bloodstream . . . why would one think it's OK to do that to oneself? And yet, it happens all too regularly . . . with food, alcohol, drugs, spending habits . . . you get the idea . . . .

This stepping outside our own selfish egos - a form of transcendence - allows another phenomenon to take place; it allows us to consider circumstances from another person's point of view. In short, it allows us the capacity to exercise empathy. To do that effectively, one must first learn to let go of one's ego and learn how to love oneself the right way so loving neighbor the right way becomes possible.

What is the right way to love oneself? For most people that would be learning to give and accept love . . . and in regards to sexuality, for most people the primary type of relationship in which to learn to give and accept love would be a committed loving relationship with someone of the opposite sex. If heterosexual loving relationships are the right way for most people to learn to give and accept love, does that mean that the right way for everyone has to be in a committed loving relationship with someone of the opposite sex?

If I were to consider what is the right way for my neighbor who happens to be gay in the same way that I would consider the right way for myself. . . stepping outside my own selfish ego and considering my neighbor's circumstances in place of my own . . . for my gay neighbor the functional equivalent of my committed loving relationship with a person of the opposite sex would be a committed loving relationship with someone of the same sex . . .

. . . note that I did not advocate for licentious sexual relationships, whether straight or gay; I think scripture is pretty clear that exploiting someone for sex isn't within the scope of the type of love Christianity - or any other religion that I know of - would advocate for.

Is Kierkegaard's type of 'loving neighbor' hard to do? It would seem that it's a whole lot harder to do than we might think at first blush. It requires two steps: (1) being able to step outside one's own selfish ego, and (2) being able to consider what it would mean to love the neighbor the right way from the neighbor's perspective in the same way one would consider what it would mean to love oneself the right way if one were in those same circumstances. Based on my observations of human beings over 60+ years, this is possible for some to do relatively easily, possible for some to do on occasion with ease, and on other occasions with difficulty, and not easy for many ever to do, particularly if they're not related to the neighbor. We have a long way to go to realize the Kingdom of God here on earth . . . perhaps because we're not reading some really wise and powerful books the right way, and as a consequence we've not learned to love ourselves as our neighbors . . . the right way.
 
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Well, maybe this is a place to wedge this into a thread . . .

In Works of Love, Kierkegaard focused on those last two words of the Great Commandment "as yourself", which apparently is a kind of throw-away phrase for many people when they read the Great Commandment. Why is it a throwaway phrase? Because most people think of themselves as loving themselves - of course we do! Just ask us! Most of our lives and economy are dedicated to loving ourselves . . . aren't they!

Kierkegaard takes up this challenge and in the course of analyzing it, reveals to us that loving ourselves as we would presuppose to love our neighbor is a much more difficult task than we would assume . . . in fact, Kierkegaard's discussion of "as yourself" reveals that loving ourselves is in fact the same thing as loving neighbor:

If anyone is unwilling to learn from Christianity to love himself in the right way, he cannot love the neighbor either. He can perhaps hold together with another or a few other persons, “through thick and thin,” as it is called, but this is by no means loving the neighbor. To love yourself in the right way and to love the neighbor correspond perfectly to one another, fundamentally they are one and the same thing. When the Law’s "as yourself" has wrested from you the self-love that Christianity sadly enough must presuppose to be in every human being, then you actually have learned to love yourself. The Law is therefore: you shall love yourself in the same way as you love your neighbor when you love him as yourself.

Who's ever read the "love your neighbor" part of the Great Commandment as an indictment on our inability to love ourselves?

In this light it also becomes clear that the "love your neighbor" commandment can be read virtually as a mathematical formula: Love of neighbor = Love of self . . . only Kierkegaard would presumably tack onto both sides of the phrase "the right way". In other words, loving one's self, like loving one's neighbor, the right way requires us to step outside of our own selfish egos to consider - and presumably act upon - the best possible for ourselves and for our neighbors. For a crude example, one wouldn't wish upon a neighbor an addiction to binge drinking alcohol that causes the neighbor to drink repeatedly to such excess that the neighbor accumulates lethal levels of alcohol toxicity in the neighbor's bloodstream . . . why would one think it's OK to do that to oneself? And yet, it happens all too regularly . . . with food, alcohol, drugs, spending habits . . . you get the idea . . . .

This stepping outside our own selfish egos - a form of transcendence - allows another phenomenon to take place; it allows us to consider circumstances from another person's point of view. In short, it allows us the capacity to exercise empathy. To do that effectively, one must first learn to let go of one's ego and learn how to love oneself the right way so loving neighbor the right way becomes possible.

What is the right way to love oneself? For most people that would be learning to give and accept love . . . and in regards to sexuality, for most people the primary type of relationship in which to learn to give and accept love in would be a committed loving relationship with someone of the opposite sex. If heterosexual loving relationships are the right way for most people to learn to give and accept love, does that mean that the right way for everyone has to be in a committed loving relationship with someone of the opposite sex?

If I were to consider what is the right way for my neighbor who happens to be gay in the same way that I would consider the right way for myself. . . stepping outside my own selfish ego and considering my neighbor's circumstances in place of my own . . . for my gay neighbor the functional equivalent of my committed loving relationship with a person of the opposite sex would be a committed loving relationship with someone of the same sex . . .

. . . note that I did not advocate for licentious sexual relationships, whether straight or gay; I think scripture is pretty clear that exploiting someone for sex isn't within the scope of the type of love Christianity - or any other religion that I know of - would advocate for.

Is Kierkegaard's type of 'loving neighbor' hard to do? It would seem that it's a whole lot harder to do than we might think at first blush. It requires two steps: (1) being able to step outside one's own selfish ego, and (2) being able to consider what it would mean to love the neighbor the right way from the neighbor's perspective in the same way one would consider what it would mean to love oneself the right way if one were in those same circumstances. Based on my observations of human beings over 60+ years, this is possible for some to do relatively easily, possible for some to do on occasion with ease, and on other occasions with difficulty, and not easy for many ever to do, particularly if they're not related to the neighbor. We have a long way to go to realize the Kingdom of God here on earth . . . perhaps because we're not reading some really wise and powerful books the right way, and as a consequence we've not learned to love ourselves as our neighbors . . . the right way.
<aotf>
All that and nothing about the neighbor's wife?
</aotf>
 
The article pointed out a sin that is mentioned in Romans 1. In verse 32 it says, 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
This bill is an example of verse 32. Now I pointed out before that homosexuality is not the only sin mentioned in Romans 1. Idolatry is also mentioned. If there was a pro idolatry bill proposed by the House I would use verse 32 in the exact same way.
835f605b-5bcb-48b7-8429-1e395234f2ce-1024x768.jpeg
 
Several things wrong with your post. Jesus was not asked about homosexuality in his ministry. Therefore you would assume he agreed with the Jews view on the subject. They considered homosexuality a sin before God because this was taught in the Scriptures. Leviticus 18 for instance speaks about God's view on the subject. Now let me very clear about something. Jesus was the Son of God. What I mean by this is that He was the God of the Scriptures from Genesis to Malachi. So if Jesus was for homosexuality then He would be disagreeing with something He already said since He was God. It was not until Bethlehem that the Son of God added a human nature to His Divine one. The Apostle Paul spoke about former homosexuals and other sinners in 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. Jesus Christ when He saved these people changed their lives. If there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual then there is also nothing wrong with adultery or idolatry. Today, people come to Christ and their lives are changed. The power of sin is being broken in their lives. A bunch of thieves, drunkards, and homosexuals are turning to the one true God who saves souls through the power of His Son's Cross.
snake-handlers-1.jpg
 
There are a couple stories circulating today in the news about pastors who ignored COVID-19 recently dying of the virus. Somehow their congregations will manage to put a positive spin on this.
 
There are a couple stories circulating today in the news about pastors who ignored COVID-19 recently dying of the virus. Somehow their congregations will manage to put a positive spin on this.
Was the spin that stupid was culled from the herd?
 
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