VanPastorMan, are you holding services today?

[82hoosier]

I remember going to a nice restaurant in Los Angeles in 1987 and seeing Don King and his bodyguard sitting next to me at dinner during a bunch with of 4 couples who were 80+ year-old mafia type caricatures.

The bodyguard wore the same suit as Don King and carry the same unlit cigar as Don King. He looked like Mike Pence following Donald Trump around.

Sometime later I saw him talking to Mike Tyson after the Tawana Brawley incident. The bodyguard was the “Reverend” Al Sharpton. I am as leery of VPM as I am about Al Sharpton. Put Jessie Jackson in the same boat.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Perhaps he's suicidal? Have you met his wife?

LMAO. I'm suicidal. Maybe he found a kindred spirit....

 

[zeke4ahs]

With the windows down and he could have a speaker. LIke a drive-in movie.

I was just thinking that drive ins should make a come back.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I was just thinking that drive ins should make a come back.

I was watching ozark last night and they had an "incident" at an old abandoned drive-in. probably why it popped into my head.

 

[zeke4ahs]

LOL agreed on all fronts. just took the dog for a long walk. 70 degrees. not to rain on your parade and be debbie downer but on my walk i ran into a lawyer i know and hadn't seen at the park in our neighborhood (where everyone was keeping distance from one another and it was relatively empty) and the guy immediately came quickly up to me extending his hand with a big smile. he's probably in his mid 60's. i mean wtf. i put my hands up and he goes oh right right and feigned the elbow greeting. i don't know.

I almost kicked a guy in the family jewels yesterday for approaching me in hug mode.

 

[76-1]

LMAO. I'm suicidal. Maybe he found a kindred spirit....

Hang tough. Van might need a lawyer when this is all over... Not to mention every Spring Breaker who thought it was a good idea to post video of themselves.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Hang tough. Van might need a lawyer when this is all over... Not to mention every Spring Breaker who thought it was a good idea to post video of themselves.

LOL yes. right back at ya! we'll all get through this and be stronger for it, and hopefully better prepared.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I almost kicked a guy in the family jewels yesterday for approaching me in hug mode.

LOL i hear ya. I don't know. I really don't. Sometimes i wonder if ignorance truly is bliss....

 

[twenty02]

And I don't think I'm actually calling him out. I respect his faith and his commitment. He may be a little inartful at times but he takes a little too much unnecessary crap.

I'd bet he sincerely believes what he's doing is right but if people of good faith can maybe show him there's a better/safer way during these perilous times then maybe he can consider some other options. God won't mind.

Meanwhile, in all of this darkness, it's a gorgeous day. Mid-60s, no clouds, a blue sky so rich it hurts your eyes. Winds at 25-30 mph. Grass as green as Ireland. On the front porch, WBG napping at my feet, Gary Burton on Pandora. And a good rye my son bought.

I will survive
I will survive
I will survive
We will get by.

As long as you've been around.... you should know exactly what will happen. Van will disappear and totally ignore this thread.

Then he'll pop up elsewhere in a few days with yet another galatically stupid comment on a different topic. And then when people point out his obvious errors..... rinse and repeat.

 

[T.M.P.]

As a Human Resource Manager

lol ............

Most worthless profession, ever.

 

[Sope Creek]

lol ............

Most worthless profession, ever.

Somebody has to deliver bad news to employees.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Why continue to attack someone who is not responding despite what he claimed he would do. In spite of that because you do not like him or what he stands for you continue to attack him. Sounds just like both sides of politics to me. Everyone looking for someone to blame instead of focusing on doing what you and everyone can do to support containing this issue.

I also speak as someone who has been attacked on social media based on things I did not do or say. As a Human Resource Manager I take the questions and along with the rest of our management team the wrath for choosing to stay open as an essential business. We continually reevaluate on both a daily and sometimes hourly basis whether we choose to change what we are doing or how we operate. We have employees who are now under medical direction to self quarantine for 14 days. They are allowed and encouraged to be off under these circumstances and will face no consequences. Not one has been identified as having COVID-19 but who knows because most hospital's including those near our plant either do not have or use the actual test because it is difficult to get still in Indiana. Hopefully that continues to improve and they are able to run the actual test soon on anyone that has symptoms.

It is fine to discuss, state facts and encourage the pastor to refrain from holding services but attacking him at this point unless you personally know or he says that he is still holding services.

This is a very trying time and emotions are very raw on all sides of any discussion related to COVID-19 but please continue to discuss all sides and encourage people to do the right thing.

This post won’t age well. 100% chance he’s having devices.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I remember going to a nice restaurant in Los Angeles in 1987 and seeing Don King and his bodyguard sitting next to me at dinner during a bunch with of 4 couples who were 80+ year-old mafia type caricatures.

The bodyguard wore the same suit as Don King and carry the same unlit cigar as Don King. He looked like Mike Pence following Donald Trump around.

Sometime later I saw him talking to Mike Tyson after the Tawana Brawley incident. The bodyguard was the “Reverend” Al Sharpton. I am as leery of VPM as I am about Al Sharpton. Put Jessie Jackson in the same boat.

that's hilarious! I sued don king once. cop buddy of mine broke his leg breaking up a riot at the pre-fight for one of don king's promoted fights. worker's comp and third party pi claim. i lost on the third party claim before ever getting to depose him lol

 

[mcmurtry66]

lol ............

Most worthless profession, ever.

TMP after 20 years of practicing personal injury law i'd submit mine as a close second.

 

[Daydreamer]

He's claimed it's a group decision with the deacons. How convenient. When someone dies it will be the deacons' fault.

This is how it works in the vast majority of churches. Maybe not in one-off evangelical churches but in any organized denomination. The pastor is not a dictator. Session, deacons, elders, whatever they call themselves make decisions for the congregation as a group.
I have no idea what denomination VPM is a part of but i suspect it isn’t a mainline denomination. They have all made the call that services should go online. An individual church doesn’t have to follow that advice unless that have been ordered to but, even in Greene County where my wife is a pastor, they all have.

 

[Daydreamer]

So enlighten me as to how it does work

If all it took were praying, no one would ever die.
God-whatever version you believe in- gave us the brains to know better than to huddle together during a pandemic (and to be able to figure out how old the earth is). Why would he save anyone who didn’t use the brain he gave them?

 

[Sope Creek]

This is how it works in the vast majority of churches. Maybe not in one-off evangelical churches but in and organized denomination. The pastor is not a dictator. Session, deacons, elders, whatever they call themselves make decisions for the congregation as a group.
I have no idea what denomination VPM is a part of but i suspect it isn’t a mainline denomination. They have all made the call that services should go online. An individual church doesn’t have to follow that advice unless that have been ordered to but, even in Greene County where my wife is a pastor, they all have.

Good post, Daydreamer. With the reference to deacons, I suspect that Van is pastoring a small Baptist church, perhaps more of an independent/evangelical church, just speculating from his posts.

As Van has indicated, his congregation is mostly older and relatively poor, so they don't have a lot of technology to rely on for niceties like streaming worship services. They either go to church physically, or they don't get to go at all.

I'm guessing that Van is trying to do the best he can with the less than ideal circumstances he's got, and he's leaning on those deacons a lot to help decide when enough is enough.

I have been heartened with Van's telling us that his folks are considering holding services in a parking lot with everybody listening to his sermon from their cars. I look for a decision to move to that style of service soon . . . with maybe some other modifications to help with protecting the health of the congregation.

Judging from his and Stoll's posts, coming from Washington, IN hasn't helped with getting social support for deciding to engage in social distancing . . . I'm sure that Washington is a very nice town, but it seems Washington folks' independence streak could end up hurting them.

 

[Sope Creek]

If all it took were praying, no one would ever die.
God-whatever version you believe in- gave us the brains to know better than to huddle together during a pandemic (and to be able to figure out how old the earth is). Why would he save anyone who didn’t use the brain he gave them?

That and . . .

Deuteronomy 6:16
Matthew 4:7
Luke 4:12

Don't test God . . .

 

[UncleMark]

I was just thinking that drive ins should make a come back.

May not have a comeback, but it sure should help the few that are still around. I haven't had a good reason to go to the Starlite since they reopened several years ago.

 

[zeke4ahs]

May not have a comeback, but it sure should help the few that are still around. I haven't had a good reason to go to the Starlite since they reopened several years ago.

Oh I didn’t know it was reopened! I’m going this summer. If it opens.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

So enlighten me as to how it does work

God doesn't promise in the Bible to save everyone from hardship and death. The Christian faith is based on the promise of forgiveness of sins and salvation from eternal separation from God for those who believe. Christian believers are misguided when they think just because they're Christians, God will save them from whatever troubles they're facing. That's in in a nutshell.

 

[Shuski]

lol ............

Most worthless profession, ever.

Thanks for your encouragement. I will not lose any sleep over your words either. I have been called worse.

I suppose I am also worthless for being a founder and former active partner in a primary care medical business that has 30 clinics across Indiana employing over 200 full and part time medical people in Indiana. I can tell you that the teachers and staff that use our clinic are thankful for their clinic team. I pray that all of my friends and medical teams are safe in their caregiving.

One of the reasons I founded and invested was because 70% of our manufacturing employees back in 2005 claimed no primary care provider. So they either did not seek care, went to urgent care or the emergency room.

If you want to have a real discussion like about the dysfunctional health care/insurance/PBM and overall health system. I would be happy to participate.

Your response to my post is why so few people participate anymore on the water cooler and there are very few real discussions.

 

[Sope Creek]

Thanks for your encouragement. I will not lose any sleep over your words either. I have been called worse.

I suppose I am also worthless for being a founder and former active partner in a primary care medical business that has 30 clinics across Indiana employing over 200 full and part time medical people in Indiana. I can tell you that the teachers and staff that use our clinic are thankful for their clinic team. I pray that all of my friends and medical teams are safe in their caregiving.

One of the reasons I founded and invested was because 70% of our manufacturing employees back in 2005 claimed no primary care provider. So they either did not seek care, went to urgent care or the emergency room.

If you want to have a real discussion like about the dysfunctional health care/insurance/PBM and overall health system. I would be happy to participate.

Your response to my post is why so few people participate anymore on the water cooler and there are very few real discussions.

Ennhhh . . . Shuski, you put your role as human resources manager into the discussion, and castigated others for their criticism of VPM . . . that's all on you.

If you don't want to be part of the Cooler, that'd be fine by me. I ain't impressed . . . .

 

[76-1]

Van if you're lurking out there, here's what's going on in Alaska...:

https://www.ktoo.org/2020/03/27/wat...an-update-on-the-states-response-to-covid-19/

 

[Daydreamer]

Good post, Daydreamer. With the reference to deacons, I suspect that Van is pastoring a small Baptist church, perhaps more of an independent/evangelical church, just speculating from his posts.

As Van has indicated, his congregation is mostly older and relatively poor, so they don't have a lot of technology to rely on for niceties like streaming worship services. They either go to church physically, or they don't get to go at all.

I'm guessing that Van is trying to do the best he can with the less than ideal circumstances he's got, and he's leaning on those deacons a lot to help decide when enough is enough.

I have been heartened with Van's telling us that his folks are considering holding services in a parking lot with everybody listening to his sermon from their cars. I look for a decision to move to that style of service soon . . . with maybe some other modifications to help with protecting the health of the congregation.

Judging from his and Stoll's posts, coming from Washington, IN hasn't helped with getting social support for deciding to engage in social distancing . . . I'm sure that Washington is a very nice town, but it seems Washington folks' independence streak could end up hurting them.

My wife had the same considerations when they decided to cancel in person services. A lot of her congregation is older, rural, and not wealthy. She thought about live-streaming but knew that some didn’t have Facebook or have good enough internet service. She decided to recorded it and put on YouTube but provide a written transcript for people who couldn’t watch it that way.
I hope that VPM is facing those types of challenges rather than just being stubborn or dealing with a stubborn congregation. Neither is easy but one is at least understandable.

 

[Shuski]

Ennhhh . . . Shuski, you put your role as human resources manager into the discussion, and castigated others for their criticism of VPM . . . that's all on you. You use the words castigated others, that was not my intent just sharing personal opinion. It is fine if you do not agree.

If you don't want to be part of the Cooler, that'd be fine by me. I ain't impressed . . . .

I was just using myself and my current profession in human resources as just one of the many professions that have to be part of making tough calls and communicate those decisions. I was just sharing my opinion and was not trying to impress. I have been around just as long as you Sope but don't post as much as you.

I actually enjoy reading some of the cooler discussions when they actually discuss real issues. I have no problem with the reasons people were asking the pastor to not hold his services or even disagree with his posts.

Hope you and your family are faring well during these tough times. Are you still down in Georgia.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Here is what intrigues me...VSM has adamantly made the post on several issues about how important the rule of law is to him. Now, we have a POTUS who is extending his social distancing guidelines until the end of April. Will VSM continue to hold services in direct contradiction to his Commander in Chief?

 

[DCDAVID]

To play devil's advocate here, if you truly believed in God and his awesomeness, why wouldn't you continue to gather in person knowing that he would save you?

I agree. If everything is “Gods Will” why not get together as HE already has a plan.

 

[IUXC68]

Here is what intrigues me...VSM has adamantly made the post on several issues about how important the rule of law is to him. Now, we have a POTUS who is extending his social distancing guidelines until the end of April. Will VSM continue to hold services in direct contradiction to his Commander in Chief?

Who's "VSM"?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

To play devil's advocate here, if you truly believed in God and his awesomeness, why wouldn't you continue to gather in person knowing that he would save you?

Were you under the impression that belief in God makes one invincible?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Who's "VSM"?

VanSecularMan

 

[IUXC68]

Who's "VSM"?

I've been on this site for a couple of decades now. When did the designation VSM come about? I haven't seen it until a day or two ago when you used it.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I've been on this site for a couple of decades now. When did the designation VSM come about? I haven't seen it until a day or two ago when you used it.

I called him that once when he was making an argument that was totally devoid of empathy, sympathy, pastoral care, or compassion. I noted that he is the most secular man of the cloth I have ever come in contact with, and I know many preachers...related to a few.

 

[hoot1]

I called him that once when he was making an argument that was totally devoid of empathy, sympathy, pastoral care, or compassion. I noted that he is the most secular man of the cloth I have ever come in contact with, and I know many preachers...related to a few.

Whenever any of us mix politics and religion the charge of being secular is bound to happen.

If I were a minister teaching a Christain point of view I would avoid a board such as this or leave my political point of view in the closet.

Having said that, I realize political issues such as abortion brings religion into the secular realm of governing. Roe v Wade is a big factor in why America is so divided politically.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Whenever any of us mix politics and religion the charge of being secular is bound to happen.

If I were a minister teaching a Christain point of view I would avoid a board such as this or leave my political point of view in the closet.

Having said that, I realize political issues such as abortion brings religion into the secular realm of governing. Roe v Wade is a big factor in why America is so divided politically.

HIs biggest lack of compassion is for families at the border.

 

[Stuffshot]

He's claimed it's a group decision with the deacons. How convenient. When someone dies it will be the deacons' fault God's will.

FIFY.

 

[Stuffshot]

Thanks for your encouragement. I will not lose any sleep over your words either. I have been called worse.

I suppose I am also worthless for being a founder and former active partner in a primary care medical business that has 30 clinics across Indiana employing over 200 full and part time medical people in Indiana. I can tell you that the teachers and staff that use our clinic are thankful for their clinic team. I pray that all of my friends and medical teams are safe in their caregiving.

One of the reasons I founded and invested was because 70% of our manufacturing employees back in 2005 claimed no primary care provider. So they either did not seek care, went to urgent care or the emergency room.

If you want to have a real discussion like about the dysfunctional health care/insurance/PBM and overall health system. I would be happy to participate.

Your response to my post is why so few people participate anymore on the water cooler and there are very few real discussions.

In this post, you praised yourself as much as VPM does.

 

[hoot1]

HIs biggest lack of compassion is for families at the border.

BVH, compassion or caring for others is something a Christain or members of other faiths might hold in high regard.

Nevertheless, others might argue following both civil and God's laws is paramount. Immigrants bringing children illegally across borders puts themselves and their children in intolerable consequences.

In addition, those illegals might end up voting, if they end up as citizens , for a political line of thinking which runs contrary to what made America great.

 

[UncleMark]

In addition, those illegals might end up voting, if they end up as citizens , for a political line of thinking which runs contrary to what made America great.

LOL. Yeah, gotta protect the Mercan Way of Life from them furriners.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

My initial reaction was similar to most people, but I do not know what is happening at his congregation. Some people will place their spiritual needs over their physical. That is up too them. Hopefully the church can find a way to do both.


Now, for any pastor doing the "God will protect us" schtick, then I have serious qualms. But if the congregation knows the risk and elects to meet, I may find it personally wrong but unless the governor has blocked it, so be it.