VanPastorMan, are you holding services today?

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Univee2, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Univee2

    Univee2 Hall of Famer
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    I don't mean to call you out. I don't read much of what you write here and I have about a half-dozen or so of the crazy lefty loonies, your likely most vocal detractors, on ignore. Nevertheless, I believe it's been implied you are still holding Sunday services. If true, I would urge you to reconsider.

    I believe the most holy and compassionate role would be to keep your parishioners as safe and secure as possible, given that church congregations are older than the average population. Even if everyone distances, doesn't touch and even wears the appropriate mask, it doesn't take much for someone, even if asymptomatic, to infect a significant number of people and create a hotspot.

    Call your flock. Do an on-line service. Text and or e-mail people. Help them protect each other by staying apart physically. Lives can be saved. Think how joyous it would be to get together and rejoice when this has abated. What greater reward can there be?
     
    1 Univee2, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  2. iuwclurker

    iuwclurker All-Big Ten
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    My sister participated in a Zoom yoga session and loved it. They group chatted after the session and all. Fun! Try Zoom Van!
     
  3. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
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    Not sure broadband has reached his barrio yet. The last remaining dial-up users of America.
     
  4. 82hoosier

    82hoosier All-American
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    He should preach less and listen more.
     
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  5. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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  6. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    Yeah, well, it’s just a theory after all...
     
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  7. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    I'm sure he did hold services. We all tried to convince him not to in another thread. Showed him the facts, etc. He's just not listening, and not too worried about it right now.
     
  8. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
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    Right. He said he’d stop when the virus gets there. Like it isn’t already. Of all the irresponsible things to do...
     
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  9. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    That's why we need a national lockdown for a set period of time. we need to take discretion away from people, sadly.
     
    9 mcmurtry66, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  10. hoot1

    hoot1 Hall of Famer
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    I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a Pastor of a small congregation at a time such as this.

    Seems to me it would be a lot like running a small business. You need customers to come in the door while at the same you have to take everyone's health into consideration.
     
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  11. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
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    It’s like any other small businesses. Many of those weren’t given the option, but some that were have closed on their own. Sadly, Van isn’t as responsible as them. But he easily has another option, to do online services like most everyone else has done.
     
  12. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
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    He's claimed it's a group decision with the deacons. How convenient. When someone dies it will be the deacons' fault.
     
  13. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    This is just my "guess" but since all the "we couldn't possibly miss Madrid Gras and Spring Break & Saint Patrick's Day" idiots have come home and infected their families and communities its most likely too little too late...

    Then you have the Vans of the world who think they'll deal with it when they see it and purely by naivety and stupidity we're (in my opinion) about to have an explosion of COVID19 cases across the country...

    Sadly, most of those who die won't be the people who spread the virus. I hope someday it dawns on them as to what they've done and that they have real trouble dealing with the reality of it...

    A 45 day complete stand down might stem the tide medically but also might destroy what's left of the supply chain (which might kill as many folks over the long haul)...

    So..., maybe, instead, we shut the lower 48 state lines (as best we can) from April 1st to June 1st to only really "essential" travel, as in supply chain needs..., not "I want to visit my grandmother" or I "think" I'm a key man that no one can do without, or..., I just want to drive out west while I'm off (me)...

    The individual State Police organizations could enforce this and hopefully we can continue to avoid martial law...
     
    13 76-1, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  14. hoot1

    hoot1 Hall of Famer
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    For about twenty years I've met with oldsters over the age of 55 each week. Many of the group are retired ministers from several faiths.
    .
    Most of them are traditionalists. Traditionalists in the sense that online services wouldn't be their cup of tea. Also have learned how important fellowship is as a part of church attendance. Fellowship as in seeing others and spending time together.

    Having said that, our weekly group cancelled meeting in April early on. My guess is May could very well be written off as well.
     
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  15. Shuski

    Shuski Senior
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    Why continue to attack someone who is not responding despite what he claimed he would do. In spite of that because you do not like him or what he stands for you continue to attack him. Sounds just like both sides of politics to me. Everyone looking for someone to blame instead of focusing on doing what you and everyone can do to support containing this issue.

    I also speak as someone who has been attacked on social media based on things I did not do or say. As a Human Resource Manager I take the questions and along with the rest of our management team the wrath for choosing to stay open as an essential business. We continually reevaluate on both a daily and sometimes hourly basis whether we choose to change what we are doing or how we operate. We have employees who are now under medical direction to self quarantine for 14 days. They are allowed and encouraged to be off under these circumstances and will face no consequences. Not one has been identified as having COVID-19 but who knows because most hospital's including those near our plant either do not have or use the actual test because it is difficult to get still in Indiana. Hopefully that continues to improve and they are able to run the actual test soon on anyone that has symptoms.

    It is fine to discuss, state facts and encourage the pastor to refrain from holding services but attacking him at this point unless you personally know or he says that he is still holding services.

    This is a very trying time and emotions are very raw on all sides of any discussion related to COVID-19 but please continue to discuss all sides and encourage people to do the right thing.
     
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  16. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    In this reply in the other thread, VPM said one member even suggested holding the services out in the parking lot and folks could stay in their cars. Sounded like a decent idea to me. Don't know why he doesn't do that.
     
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  17. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    With the windows down and he could have a speaker. LIke a drive-in movie.
     
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  18. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    Or even 30 days. Lock it down the entire month of april for the lower 48 and reassess things at the end of the month. the patchwork approach seems risky to me. all of that said, the lockdowns i believe are absolutely necessary, but if they come to fruition something has to be done for the millions and millions of folks who cannot make it a month or longer without cash. the stimulus package is what it is but the reality is that it will again miss millions and millions of people. so many folks don't file taxes etc. what's more who the hell knows when these checks will actually arrive to people who need them. my guess is that many people will get their checks a month after the crisis is over. i don't know. very tough times. we saw it china and we're all dumb for not being better prepared, but hindsight is 20/20.
     
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  19. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    To play devil's advocate here, if you truly believed in God and his awesomeness, why wouldn't you continue to gather in person knowing that he would save you?
     
  20. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Your concept makes sense but my Major concern is that such a "lockdown" nationally would eventually involve the Feds invoking Martial Law.

    Sometime over the past 10 days the Justice Department was making noises about gaining something close to the power to (what I call) detain indefinitely without due process. I don't want any part of that!!!

    I'd much rather keep this with the state governments as long as possible...
     
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  21. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    hmmm. not sure. i honestly don't have any idea how martial law works. at all. i know where i live the courts are handling detainees with video conferences from the pokey to the court's chambers. this happens regularly anyway so was just expanded. if martial law is enacted does that deprive local courts of administration? i know it means that the feds take over but i guess i assumed they'd issue directives that states and local would follow?. i understand martial law in theory but not practice.
     
  22. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    The Lord gave us a brain so we could make good decisions...

    See my joke about the minister who drowned during a flood over in Vans thread on the Off Topic Site... (Corona Virus "thoughts" thread)

    I admire Vans faith and his commitment to it.

    I don't admire his seemingly complete lack of understanding of the reality of the infectious nature of this virus...and how to utilize the information available to him to protect his flock here on earth.
     
    22 76-1, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  23. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
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    <carlin>
    It's a mystery.
    </carlin>
     
  24. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    At least give me a vid clip!
     
  25. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    My understanding is that "Martial Law" on a national level would involve the suspension of the Bill of Rights and that the Feds would enforce whatever emergency measures they decide are necessary with a combination of National Guard (federalized), Select ReadyReserve outfits and actual active duty military units.

    The military, I'm sure..., doesn't want Any part of that and I'm guessing neither do most civilians...
     
    25 76-1, Mar 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  26. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
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    To put it simply, it don't work that way...
     
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  27. bawlmer

    bawlmer All-Big Ten
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    Nobody gets out of here alive, and now may be as good a time as ever as far as God is concerned.
     
  28. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    got it. hmmm. i'm not informed enough to opine whether that's a good or bad thing. the only mitigating thing i would think is that it would be a relatively short duration: 30 days or whatever.
     
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  29. ribbont

    ribbont All-American
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    If you truly did not want to call him out, couldn't you have just started a direct conversation with him instead of a thread?
     
  30. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    While there are undoubtedly more than a few out there who actually "deserve" to get a rifle butt in the chops when they fail to follow instructions (and then be roughly tossed into a confinement facility with no recourse to any due process procedures) ;)...; allowing such measures would destroy everything we stand for (as a country)... I can't be for that...
     
  31. mcmurtry66

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    i've followed these boards for 20 years. i think it's okay to call him out. he's gotten a ton of abuse through the years and to his immense credit the guy has very thick skin. with as much time as he spends posting on here about God and his ministry, coupled with his thick skin, i again think it's okay to call him out. he can definitely handle it and i would be curious to hear his response.
     
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  32. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    lmao agreed. i guess my hangup is that i don't know that you're correct about due process being eroded. again, i just don't know how it works.
     
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  33. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    So enlighten me as to how it does work
     
  34. ribbont

    ribbont All-American
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    I didn't say it wasn't ok. I questioned the OP's sincerity in not trying to call him out.

    Of course, maybe the OP was not aware of the convo option.
     
  35. Univee2

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    And I don't think I'm actually calling him out. I respect his faith and his commitment. He may be a little inartful at times but he takes a little too much unnecessary crap.

    I'd bet he sincerely believes what he's doing is right but if people of good faith can maybe show him there's a better/safer way during these perilous times then maybe he can consider some other options. God won't mind.

    Meanwhile, in all of this darkness, it's a gorgeous day. Mid-60s, no clouds, a blue sky so rich it hurts your eyes. Winds at 25-30 mph. Grass as green as Ireland. On the front porch, WBG napping at my feet, Gary Burton on Pandora. And a good rye my son bought.

    I will survive
    I will survive
    I will survive
    We will get by.
     
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  36. mcmurtry66

    mcmurtry66 Junior
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    LOL agreed on all fronts. just took the dog for a long walk. 70 degrees. not to rain on your parade and be debbie downer but on my walk i ran into a lawyer i know and hadn't seen at the park in our neighborhood (where everyone was keeping distance from one another and it was relatively empty) and the guy immediately came quickly up to me extending his hand with a big smile. he's probably in his mid 60's. i mean wtf. i put my hands up and he goes oh right right and feigned the elbow greeting. i don't know.
     
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  37. meridian

    meridian Hall of Famer
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    Learned well from Trump!
     
  38. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Here's a meandering history of its usuage but with no clear legal breakdown of its parameters:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/608773/

    I'll keep looking...
     
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  39. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Here's a better article but you have to weave down through the ads and subscription pleas to read the whole thing...:

    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/03/17/will-coronavirus-lead-to-martial-law/
     
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  40. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Perhaps he's suicidal? Have you met his wife? ;)
     

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