Vaccine Shaming
- Thread starter MikeHoncho69
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Always enjoy your contributions, Stoll. They inspire me.
People who have had the covid have 90% or more immunity......where does that factor into your #s?
Not a Scientist or medical professional so I can't explain it.
You know...following the advise of credible people. (Sorry Trump doesn't count)
There's an article about this on a health-related web site called Advisory Board, from 3/2/21. I don't do links, but it's informative.
We know how much immunity people get from the shots, the amount from having COVID is wildly variable. Some people had COVID but had fairly low viral loads so their immune system is not nearly as primed. That may make a big difference when it comes to variants.
We are going to drive across the desert. You can start with an unknown amount of fuel in yourvl tank, or a full tank. Which do you choose and why.
Do I need a vaccine if I’ve already had COVID-19? - UChicago Medicine
Still trying to decide if and when to get your COVID-19 vaccine? Infectious diseases expert Jennifer Pisano, MD, is here to answer your lingering questions.
Take a look at that 'Advisory Board' article I referred to above.....must reading.We know how much immunity people get from the shots, the amount from having COVID is wildly variable. Some people had COVID but had fairly low viral loads so their immune system is not nearly as primed. That may make a big difference when it comes to variants.
We are going to drive across the desert. You can start with an unknown amount of fuel in yourvl tank, or a full tank. Which do you choose and why.
Do I need a vaccine if I’ve already had COVID-19? - UChicago Medicine
Still trying to decide if and when to get your COVID-19 vaccine? Infectious diseases expert Jennifer Pisano, MD, is here to answer your lingering questions.www.uchicagomedicine.org
Thanks for that. I put vaccine and then vaccination in the search box. I then limited it to 2021 and dealing with COVID-19. Nothing dated March 3 appears. There is a March 4 story about studies on healthcare workers who are vaccinated and unvaccinated. If someone has found it, let me know.
Because vaccination prompts a huge antibody response, as if you suddenly had an enormous viral load. Moreover, all of the antibodies prompted by vaccination are neutralizing antibodies, specific for the spike protein, thus blocking viral entry.
Natural infection varies widely in its severity, in the viral load resulting, in the number of antibodies produced, and thus in the robustness of the antibody response. You may have gotten infected but at a low level. Plus, the antibodies made after a natural infection are vs. all of the many foreign proteins that are present in the virus, rather than just the spike protein, and many of those antibodies will not be effective in preventing transmission because they might not block proteins involved in viral entry.
Bottom line: if you got a mild, low viral load Covid infection and fought it off easily, you might be worse off in terms of antibody protection than if you had "got it real bad, then recovered" or (certainly) if you had gotten vaccinated.
Speaking of variants, natural antibodies far outweigh those produced via genetic modification. It’s why boosters are on the horizon.We know how much immunity people get from the shots, the amount from having COVID is wildly variable. Some people had COVID but had fairly low viral loads so their immune system is not nearly as primed. That may make a big difference when it comes to variants.
We are going to drive across the desert. You can start with an unknown amount of fuel in yourvl tank, or a full tank. Which do you choose and why.
Do I need a vaccine if I’ve already had COVID-19? - UChicago Medicine
Still trying to decide if and when to get your COVID-19 vaccine? Infectious diseases expert Jennifer Pisano, MD, is here to answer your lingering questions.
The research I've seen says the opposite, have a source for what you're saying here? The fact that the mRNA vaccines produce antibodies against the spike protein that has so far stayed consistent across all variants has meant that they are more effective against variants than antibodies produced by an infection by one single variant.
If you have been vaccinated then you are little to no risk from the unvaccinated. The argument about the unvaccinated is ridiculous as the unvaccinated are the ones at risk in a public gathering. This argument just shows people are dealing with the virus in a rational way.
Natural antibodies produced to a severe / high viral load infection are likely to be numerous. Many of them will be non-neutralizing antibodies that won't help you at all, but some of them will be to the spike protein or other proteins essential for the virus to survive and/ or replicate.
Natural antibodies produced to a nonsevere / low viral load infection are likely to be far less numerous.
"Antibodies produced via genetic modification" is utter nonsense, a meaningless term. The mRNA vaccines don't in any way, shape, or form modify your genome. They are a snippet of RNA delivering a specific recipe to the ribosome to make a specific protein. The recipe is read, the mRNA is chopped up, the protein is made in the ribosome, antibodies are produced, and all is well.
The reason boosters are on the horizon has nothing to do with antibodies arising from natural infection, as opposed to vaccination, or their differences.
Boosters are on the horizon because of natural genetic drift (aka mutations) in the RNA sequence of the virus that is infecting people, in particular, mutations in the amino acid sequence of the spike protein. Such mutations could render the antibodies produced, either following vaccination or following infection by an earlier form of the virus, ineffective at blocking viral entry. In that case, a previously vaccinated person needs a booster, and a previously naturally infected person also needs the same booster, as much or even more.
Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime
People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.
www.nature.com
How many antibodies, what kind, and how does it compare with antibody production after vaccination? The Nature article addresses none of that. Sure, you will likely make a non-zero number of antibodies for years. When the number of effective antibodies drops below a certain level, though, you are not well-protected. That's true for infected people, for vaccinated people, and even for the common clay of the land. You know, morons.
Marvin--March 2nd ...The headline is : "Just how likely are you to catch the coronavirus twice? Here is what new research reveals".
Here is the link. The article is good but troubling in one aspect. It does suggest those that do get it a second time may we'll get it worse .
Just how likely are you to catch the coronavirus twice? Here's what new research reveals.
Survivors of Covid-19 are significantly less likely than the rest of the population to catch the novel coronavirus—but their risk of reinfection is not zero, according to a study published Wednesday in JAMA Internal Medicine.
www.advisory.com
The antivaxers will continue to allow the virus to spread and mutate. Would love to see the green pass process being developed in the EU used here.
If you are unvaxed I have the right to know and you should be held out of events and buildings.
If you are making an ignorant choice like not vaxing, lord only knows what other poor choices you are making.
Period.
We back to the idea of getting herd immunity through contracting covid? Sounds so much safer than just getting the vaccine...sarcasm
Here is the link. The article is good but troubling in one aspect. It does suggest those that do get it a second time may we'll get it worse .
Just how likely are you to catch the coronavirus twice? Here's what new research reveals.
Survivors of Covid-19 are significantly less likely than the rest of the population to catch the novel coronavirus—but their risk of reinfection is not zero, according to a study published Wednesday in JAMA Internal Medicine.
That sounds like testing flaws if we are being honest. All of the other research suggests otherwise, so I would not start panicking, yet, unless you have an urge to.
See these:
Previous COVID-19 may cut risk of reinfection 84%
People who had COVID-19 had an 84% lower risk of becoming reinfected and a 93% lower risk of symptomatic infection during 7 months of follow-up, according to findings from a large, multicenter study published late last week in The Lancet.
COVID-19 reinfections in The Gambia by phylogenetically distinct SARS-CoV-2 variants—first two confirmed events in west Africa
At the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, in early 2020, the scientific community hypothesised that SARS-CoV-2 transmission would eventually be hindered by herd immunity, conferred by natural infection, vaccination, or both.1 However, essential questions about whether infection with SARS-CoV-2...
www.thelancet.com
By March 15, 2021, fewer than 100 reinfections had been reported worldwide, mainly in countries with a high mortality burden. In most cases, reinfections were less severe than the initial infection
Health worker caught Covid twice in first scientist-confirmed Irish reinfection case
Concern for semi-vaccinated over more infectious Indian variant as restrictions lifted
Seven months later, she presented again with Covid-19 suffering from a cough, headache, sore throat, fatigue and muscle pain. The second occurrence was milder and she recovered quickly, remaining off work for a two-week period in self-isolation.
1 in 3 People Get COVID-19 Rebound Symptoms, Even Without Paxlovid
Researchers looked at a group of untreated COVID-19 patients to discover that, like patients who took Paxlovid, they also experienced recurrent symptoms after their illness appeared to resolve.
www.healthline.com
Do you really expect an actual answer? Much less a listing of a reputable source?
Yeah, that would be relevant if what was being administered was a “vaccine”.
https://dailyreckoning.com/the-vaccines-arent-actually-vaccines/
So I get this, are you going to tell every one of the poor choices they think you have made in life regardless of whether they are or someone else thinks they are? You would have done well in E germany.
Your post from your link has absolutely nothing to do with my post. The vaccines, and YES they are vaccines contrary to what the JBS paranoid crowd thinks, work by stimulating an immune response. In the case of the new vaccines, they teach your body to attack the corona part of the coronavirus.
But people on immunosuppressants do not have effective immune responses. Their bodies will not be able to launch an effective attack on an an intruder. Think of their immune system as being Italian.
A Tesla is a car, Moderna is a vaccine, fluoridated water is safe to drink
We’ll get to herd immunity via vaccinations and natural immunity of those that have had COVID-19, many of whom won’t also get the vaccine (some number will too) but will still have high levels of immunity. Worrying about those that have had COVID but not been vaccinated is misdirected concern. Those that haven’t had it or been vaccinated are the concern.
This article isn’t about herd immunity, but makes the point that those recovered, such as it is since the vast majority don’t have significant issues from contracting it, are not the concern.
The Beauty of Vaccines and Natural Immunity - SMERCONISH
As scientists, we have been stunned and disheartened to witness many strange scientific claims made during this pandemic, often by scientists.
www.smerconish.com
That article ignores a study showing far more antibodies were created by vaccines than natural. Now how important a body's response is is not clear.We’ll get to herd immunity via vaccinations and natural immunity of those that have had COVID-19, many of whom won’t also get the vaccine (some number will too) but will still have high levels of immunity. Worrying about those that have had COVID but not been vaccinated is misdirected concern. Those that haven’t had it or been vaccinated are the concern.
This article isn’t about herd immunity, but makes the point that those recovered, such as it is since the vast majority don’t have significant issues from contracting it, are not the concern.
The Beauty of Vaccines and Natural Immunity - SMERCONISH
As scientists, we have been stunned and disheartened to witness many strange scientific claims made during this pandemic, often by scientists.
Immune Response From mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines Is More Robust Than Natural Infection
Antibody levels induced by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are much higher than those induced by natural infection and confer cross-reactivity that could be effective against new variants, a new study from the University of California, Irvine, found.
If people really had COVID, I agree they may not need a shot. But I know several people who were sick last year who are positive it was COVID but were never tested. One was sick early Jan, 2020, almost certainly not COVID.
I suspect the behind the scenes fear is people intentionally contracting COVID to escape getting vaccinated. I will theorize people who think that way will decidedly not quarantine.
The point is that those that have had COVID have some level of immunity. In some cases less than the vaccinated and some cases more. Given that, worrying about them getting vaccinated (or not) is wasted energy. The focus should be on those that haven't had it and haven't been vaccinated - starting with the most at risk and progressing to the least at risk that could get it and almost certainly not suffer any significant personnel symptoms and gain some level of immunity as well. Of course they might be putting the at risk people at risk as well, but the at risk also have some responsibility to not put themselves at risk. Between vaccinations and those that have had COVID and gained immunity we're definitely heading to a good place immunity wise.That article ignores a study showing far more antibodies were created by vaccines than natural. Now how important a body's response is is not clear.
Immune Response From mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines Is More Robust Than Natural Infection
Antibody levels induced by mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are much higher than those induced by natural infection and confer cross-reactivity that could be effective against new variants, a new study from the University of California, Irvine, found.www.contagionlive.com
If people really had COVID, I agree they may not need a shot. But I know several people who were sick last year who are positive it was COVID but were never tested. One was sick early Jan, 2020, almost certainly not COVID.
I suspect the behind the scenes fear is people intentionally contracting COVID to escape getting vaccinated. I will theorize people who think that way will decidedly not quarantine.
Incentives work, by the way. Ohio's vaccinations per day went up 28% the first week after the announced the Vaxamillion program. Ohioans love lotteries.
The point is that those that have had COVID have some level of immunity. In some cases less than the vaccinated and some cases more. Given that, worrying about them getting vaccinated (or not) is wasted energy. The focus should be on those that haven't had it and haven't been vaccinated - starting with the most at risk and progressing to the least at risk that could get it and almost certainly not suffer any significant personnel symptoms and gain some level of immunity as well. Of course they might be putting the at risk people at risk as well, but the at risk also have some responsibility to not put themselves at risk. Between vaccinations and those that have had COVID and gained immunity we're definitely heading to a good place immunity wise.
Incentives work, by the way. Ohio's vaccinations per day went up 28% the first week after the announced the Vaxamillion program. Ohioans love lotteries.
And I will gladly point out that I liked the idea in the thread on the Ohio lottery. It is good to see new ideas.
I hear conflicting reports on herd immunity. Some say it is impossible, others say it can happen. We have not developed heard against other Coronavirus but this may be different. I see some think our immune systems will remember this corona forever, others think in a couple years our bodies will forget.
That is the problem with a novel virus, we cannot know until we experience it.
This may have been discussed, but do you think we should consider a sliding scale of covid at-risk in regards to other factors than co-morbidities? For example, school age kids are pretty low risk, but we do tend to shove them together, inside most of the day, in buildings that may be older and lack optimum circulation, in close proximity to each other, in an environment that is pretty hands on.The point is that those that have had COVID have some level of immunity. In some cases less than the vaccinated and some cases more. Given that, worrying about them getting vaccinated (or not) is wasted energy. The focus should be on those that haven't had it and haven't been vaccinated - starting with the most at risk and progressing to the least at risk that could get it and almost certainly not suffer any significant personnel symptoms and gain some level of immunity as well. Of course they might be putting the at risk people at risk as well, but the at risk also have some responsibility to not put themselves at risk. Between vaccinations and those that have had COVID and gained immunity we're definitely heading to a good place immunity wise.
Incentives work, by the way. Ohio's vaccinations per day went up 28% the first week after the announced the Vaxamillion program. Ohioans love lotteries.
Probably not on topic, but as a fairly even-handed poster, I was curious about your opinion. In other words, should school age kids be required to be vaccinated to attend a typical public school...in your opinion...from one even-handed poster to another?
I don't think it should be required at this time while the vaccination is under emergency approval. Federal government employees, even the military, are still not required to have the vaccine. It's strictly voluntary though I'm sure they're encouraged and the vaccine is readily available to them as it is to the entire population at this point. Until we require federal employees to take it, we shouldn't be requiring school kids at any age to have it. Besides, they are the least at-risk of all of us. Except for those with health issues - and I highly encourage them to take it. We should encourage them all, in fact, with incentives. However, not mandate it at this stage.This may have been discussed, but do you think we should consider a sliding scale of covid at-risk in regards to other factors than co-morbidities? For example, school age kids are pretty low risk, but we do tend to shove them together, inside most of the day, in buildings that may be older and lack optimum circulation, in close proximity to each other, in an environment that is pretty hands on.
Probably not on topic, but as a fairly even-handed poster, I was curious about your opinion. In other words, should school age kids be required to be vaccinated to attend a typical public school...in your opinion...from one even-handed poster to another?
So is it the EUA designation (as opposed to full approval) that's the difference maker in your mind? Since other fully approved inoculations are required without rancor.
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