Vaccine Shaming

DANC

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300+ people retweeted this stupidity. Seriously, how dumb do you have to be to believe that vaccines don't affect Covid-19 mortality when we have witnessed it in almost every country with widespread vaccinations?

This is like saying that there is no evidence Cancer can cause deaths because just as many people without cancer died within a certain group from other causes. You have to be dumber than a box of rocks to take this seriously, but several news shows regularly have him on.
I mean, does anyone ever look at actual statistics?
 
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cosmickid

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Notice how they changed the claim and are hoping no one notices. Fauci is citing data comparing virus levels among different variants, not virus levels against unvaccinated. Same thing the India study compared, and in no way justifies their original justification and statements.
I actually think you're conflating two separate issues here, and are basically putting words in Fauci's mouth. He is speaking to the higher vial load retained by vaccinated individuals between Alpha and Delta variants of the disease to explain why vaccinated people with Delta are more likely to transmit it than they are the Alpha version...

I've seen that same info provided by a number of virologists, not just Fauci. It's also what medical people in hospitals are pointing to as a reason they believe the new Delta patients they are seeing are sicker than the patients they treated previously who were infected with Alpha. It seems to be a pretty straightforward acknowledgment of the higher viral load of Delta, and a good rationale for vaccinated people in high Delta transmission areas to wear a mask...
 
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cosmickid

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Follow the science that COVID has almost zero impact on children that age. Zero. And for children that age, the bacteria and viruses that end up on the useless masks are a far bigger threat than COVID. So they don't need them and they should not wear them. And if the teachers are that scared, get your shot if you have not already, and if you have and you are still too terrified to go on with life, quit and become an anxiety filled recluse.
Some people including the Louisiana Dept of Health and the Medical Director of the largest Children's Hosp in Louisiana as well would beg to differ with your expert analysis regarding school-age kids...

"According to LDH, children were the third highest group of new cases in the state for the month of July.

In July, more than 4,000 children between the ages of 5 and 17 in the state contracted COVID-19, and those numbers are rapidly increasing by the week.

Here is a breakdown of new cases by week for the month of July:

July 1-7: 632 new cases

July 8-14: 1,333 new cases

July 15-21: 2.676 new cases

Total: 4,641 new cases

The second-highest number of new cases were in Louisiana residents ages 3o to 39. There were a total of 5,814 new cases in this age group.

The highest number of new cases were reported in people aged 18 to 29, with a total of 7,908 new cases."


The covid patients in this Children's Hosp went from 4 on Monday to 17 on Wed, including 4 in ICU...

 

UncleMark

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Some people including the Louisiana Dept of Health and the Medical Director of the largest Children's Hosp in Louisiana as well would beg to differ with your expert analysis regarding school-age kids...

Heard on NPR today that Gov. Hutchison of AR is considering calling the legislature back into special session so they can repeal the ban on mask mandates. He wants to do this specifically to allow schools to mask up if necessary this fall.
 
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IUCrazy2

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I actually think you're conflating two separate issues here, and are basically putting words in Fauci's mouth. He is speaking to the higher vial load retained by vaccinated individuals between Alpha and Delta variants of the disease to explain why vaccinated people with Delta are more likely to transmit it than they are the Alpha version...

I've seen that same info provided by a number of virologists, not just Fauci. It's also what medical people in hospitals are pointing to as a reason they believe the new Delta patients they are seeing are sicker than the patients they treated previously who were infected with Alpha. It seems to be a pretty straightforward acknowledgment of the higher viral load of Delta, and a good rationale for vaccinated people in high Delta transmission areas to wear a mask...
We are literally never going to be free from you guys are we.
 

Cortez88

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We are literally never going to be free from you guys are we.
What does this mean? The data on Delta is there. Are we just supposed to disregard because it’s inconvenient? No one wants any of this but it is just reality right now. The Indiana vax rate for all eligible people is 44%. We are doing this to ourselves. If you want to be pissed at someone, level it at these folks.
 
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Bulk VanderHuge

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The Southern Sun
What does this mean? The data on Delta is there. Are we just supposed to disregard because it’s inconvenient? No one wants any of this but it is just reality right now. The Indiana vax rate for all eligible people is 44%. We are doing this to ourselves. If you want to be pissed at someone, level it at these folks.
I figured by "you guys" he was referring to Covid variants.
 

NPT

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Most polling (polls are linked) shows that somewhere between 50% and 60% of Republican adults are vaccinated compared with 80% to 90% of Democratic adults. So a gap of 20% to 40%.
I would guess that most of that difference is the fact that liberals like and trust big government and conservatives just don't trust the government as much as liberals do. In this case I think the mistrust is misguided but it's there.
 
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IUCrazy2

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What does this mean? The data on Delta is there. Are we just supposed to disregard because it’s inconvenient? No one wants any of this but it is just reality right now. The Indiana vax rate for all eligible people is 44%. We are doing this to ourselves. If you want to be pissed at someone, level it at these folks.
Folks like the teachers unions who came out yesterday against forcing their members to get vaccinated? They are all good with forcing masks on and wanting to require vaccinations for children, but not them. Oh no, they have a right to refuse (and I actually agree that they do, so why all the strong arm tactics with the children?) No, frankly a bunch of us are sick and tired of the double standards and the fear porn.

"The delta variant carries a higher viral load and appears more contagious"....cool story, how lethal is it compared to earlier strains? You notice how that is not touched on? I have. The common cold is really contagious but it does not kill people so we don't tend to care. Can we get some clarification on Delta before we entertain throwing masks back on everywhere and scare all the teachers who won't get vaccinated into shutting our schools down again? Can we step back and weigh this new information against mental health?

I hear infections and hospitalizations are up a bit. You know what I don't hear right now? Huge death count increases. Why is that? Don't you have that question?

And I am vaccinated now. I weighed options for myself and went and had it done. However, I think we need to start viewing the data thrown at us with a little more skepticism before we just give in to the government again. I am done with the lockdown mentality.
 

Cortez88

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Folks like the teachers unions who came out yesterday against forcing their members to get vaccinated? They are all good with forcing masks on and wanting to require vaccinations for children, but not them. Oh no, they have a right to refuse (and I actually agree that they do, so why all the strong arm tactics with the children?) No, frankly a bunch of us are sick and tired of the double standards and the fear porn.

"The delta variant carries a higher viral load and appears more contagious"....cool story, how lethal is it compared to earlier strains? You notice how that is not touched on? I have. The common cold is really contagious but it does not kill people so we don't tend to care. Can we get some clarification on Delta before we entertain throwing masks back on everywhere and scare all the teachers who won't get vaccinated into shutting our schools down again? Can we step back and weigh this new information against mental health?

I hear infections and hospitalizations are up a bit. You know what I don't hear right now? Huge death count increases. Why is that? Don't you have that question?

And I am vaccinated now. I weighed options for myself and went and had it done. However, I think we need to start viewing the data thrown at us with a little more skepticism before we just give in to the government again. I am done with the lockdown mentality.
I guess we disagree on masking kids as a “lockdown mentality.” Just this morning I’ve read comments from the state health director and county health director. Both said everyone 2 and up should wear a mask indoors but they won’t mandate. Why? They know a lot of people will lose their shit. Again, if wearing a mask keeps my kids in person all year long, I have zero issue with it. I don’t feel like anyone is controlling me or them.
 
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Lucy01

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Folks like the teachers unions who came out yesterday against forcing their members to get vaccinated? They are all good with forcing masks on and wanting to require vaccinations for children, but not them. Oh no, they have a right to refuse (and I actually agree that they do, so why all the strong arm tactics with the children?) No, frankly a bunch of us are sick and tired of the double standards and the fear porn.

"The delta variant carries a higher viral load and appears more contagious"....cool story, how lethal is it compared to earlier strains? You notice how that is not touched on? I have. The common cold is really contagious but it does not kill people so we don't tend to care. Can we get some clarification on Delta before we entertain throwing masks back on everywhere and scare all the teachers who won't get vaccinated into shutting our schools down again? Can we step back and weigh this new information against mental health?

I hear infections and hospitalizations are up a bit. You know what I don't hear right now? Huge death count increases. Why is that? Don't you have that question?

And I am vaccinated now. I weighed options for myself and went and had it done. However, I think we need to start viewing the data thrown at us with a little more skepticism before we just give in to the government again. I am done with the lockdown mentality.
The lockdown mentality didn’t work, did it!
I would like to know the effects of the jab a year from now! Why can’t you go to your family physician and get the jab?
 

Joe_Hoopsier

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The lockdown mentality didn’t work, did it!
I would like to know the effects of the jab a year from now! Why can’t you go to your family physician and get the jab?
We will know very well one year from now, how the Jab effects this Democrat Midterm variant strain.
 
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Lucy01

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We will know very well one year from now, how the Jab effects this Democrat Midterm variant strain.
Biden couldn’t reach his 4th of July quota, so now it’s back to the scare tactics! They conditioned the general public with all the pandemic movies in the last 10 years so people would eat up their BS.
 

bawlmer

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We will know very well one year from now, how the Jab effects this Democrat Midterm variant strain.
What possible benefit is there for Democrats from a lockdown? If anything it's the GOP pushing their faithful to put their lives on the line to keep COVID cooking.
 

mcmurtry66

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What possible benefit is there for Democrats from a lockdown? If anything it's the GOP pushing their faithful to put their lives on the line to keep COVID cooking.
i'm not sure it's a benefit but it's certainly a philosophical difference. stay home. close businesses. more stimulus. more governmental reliance. more need for government. as opposed to getting yourself vaccinated and getting on with it.
 

Lucy01

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i'm not sure it's a benefit but it's certainly a philosophical difference. stay home. close businesses. more stimulus. more governmental reliance. more need for government. as opposed to getting yourself vaccinated and getting on with it.
It all started with giving school kids free breakfast and lunch’s, it indoctrinates them to think the Government will take care of them!
 

bawlmer

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i'm not sure it's a benefit but it's certainly a philosophical difference. stay home. close businesses. more stimulus. more governmental reliance. more need for government. as opposed to getting yourself vaccinated and getting on with it.
You neglected to mention the public health objective to stop the virus. That's the philosophical difference. D's don't want to tell people to stay home and close businesses. They're also more likely (and already are) adopting vaccine mandates. That's the way out of this. Just read expanded mandates in France has been very successful.

The worst way forward are these repetitive surges brought on by too many unvaccinated people.
 

mcmurtry66

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You neglected to mention the public health objective to stop the virus. That's the philosophical difference. D's don't want to tell people to stay home and close businesses. They're also more likely (and already are) adopting vaccine mandates. That's the way out of this. Just read expanded mandates in France has been very successful.

The worst way forward are these repetitive surges brought on by too many unvaccinated people.
I assumed that was implied. It’s a balance. The parties differ on what weight to assign
 
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Bowlmania

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Biden couldn’t reach his 4th of July quota, so now it’s back to the scare tactics! They conditioned the general public with all the pandemic movies in the last 10 years so people would eat up their BS.
You're a fool for continuing to make this about politics and "us versus them."

It's no secret that I don't like Trump, but the Trump administration deserves credit for spearheading Operation Warp Speed and the quick rollout of the vaccines. Now, even with the more contagious Delta variant and the surge in hospitalizations in places like Missouri, Jacksonville and Orlando, vaccines are keeping people from coming down with serious cases of the virus and keeping them out of the hospital. On the other hand, many people who have previously argued against the vaccine are unfortunately now paying the price, with the link below providing a sad example.

https://wpln.org/post/conservative-...s-brother-says-its-time-to-go-get-vaccinated/
 

IUCrazy2

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You neglected to mention the public health objective to stop the virus. That's the philosophical difference. D's don't want to tell people to stay home and close businesses. They're also more likely (and already are) adopting vaccine mandates. That's the way out of this. Just read expanded mandates in France has been very successful.

The worst way forward are these repetitive surges brought on by too many unvaccinated people.

I don't think it is working well in France.
 
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bawlmer

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I don't think it is working well in France.
Meanwhile, 5 times that number were vaccinated the first day after the mandates were announced.

France achieves record Covid jabs with Macron’s ‘big stick’ approach
 

Lucy01

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You're a fool for continuing to make this about politics and "us versus them."

It's no secret that I don't like Trump, but the Trump administration deserves credit for spearheading Operation Warp Speed and the quick rollout of the vaccines. Now, even with the more contagious Delta variant and the surge in hospitalizations in places like Missouri, Jacksonville and Orlando, vaccines are keeping people from coming down with serious cases of the virus and keeping them out of the hospital. On the other hand, many people who have previously argued against the vaccine are unfortunately now paying the price, with the link below providing a sad example.

https://wpln.org/post/conservative-...s-brother-says-its-time-to-go-get-vaccinated/
You start out calling me a fool, you’re a liberal, don’t you have a vocabulary you can use that you shouldn’t have to use name calling, your side is trying to do better, you’re not using racist as much! You don’t see me calling people hair lip cxxksucker do you? So stop with the name calling!
 
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stollcpa

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I guess we disagree on masking kids as a “lockdown mentality.” Just this morning I’ve read comments from the state health director and county health director. Both said everyone 2 and up should wear a mask indoors but they won’t mandate. Why? They know a lot of people will lose their shit. Again, if wearing a mask keeps my kids in person all year long, I have zero issue with it. I don’t feel like anyone is controlling me or them.
Yes you’re being controlled. I no longer believe anything our government tells us. I don’t care whether it’s Dems or Pubs pushing it.

CDC, FBI, CIA, Military and every other agency is now political.
 

Sope Creek

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Yes you’re being controlled. I no longer believe anything our government tells us. I don’t care whether it’s Dems or Pubs pushing it.

CDC, FBI, CIA, Military and every other agency is now political.
I don't disagree . . . it was made that way starting with Ronald Reagan, at least with the politicization of governmental agencies, and reaching a zenith under the Trump administration.

Or you could go back to the Kennedy administration for the lies told about Gary Powers. Mas and IGW might - rightfully - point to the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and the lies told as justification for wholesale intervention in Viet Nam.

It's a problem, no doubt . . . but the answer isn't to dismantle government . . . the answer is to make government better through transparency where that's feasible, and to hire talented and dedicated people to make decisions independent of politics where transparency isn't feasible.
 

Cortez88

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Yes you’re being controlled. I no longer believe anything our government tells us. I don’t care whether it’s Dems or Pubs pushing it.

CDC, FBI, CIA, Military and every other agency is now political.
You must then be a incredibly pissed about the just dropped report that in December Trump was pressuring the DOJ to say that the election was corrupt and overturn the results. Or maybe you won’t be because the DOJ held firm and did not get involved in politics.
 
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Sope Creek

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You're a fool for continuing to make this about politics and "us versus them."

It's no secret that I don't like Trump, but the Trump administration deserves credit for spearheading Operation Warp Speed and the quick rollout of the vaccines. Now, even with the more contagious Delta variant and the surge in hospitalizations in places like Missouri, Jacksonville and Orlando, vaccines are keeping people from coming down with serious cases of the virus and keeping them out of the hospital. On the other hand, many people who have previously argued against the vaccine are unfortunately now paying the price, with the link below providing a sad example.

https://wpln.org/post/conservative-...s-brother-says-its-time-to-go-get-vaccinated/
As an aside, in my experience human beings go through 3 general stages of maturation. The first stage is as a child, the person does what they're told to do by their parents.

The second stage is as a teenager, and they do the opposite of what they're told to do by their parents, even if what their parents tell them to do is good for them and what they elect to do is harmful. "You're not the boss of me" sums up this stage perfectly. But the weird thing is that the parents are still providing the standard for the teenager's decision-making.

The third stage is when the person reaches adulthood, and they independently do what they rationally determine is good for them . . . even if it's what their parents told them to do. Typically what they choose to do is what their parents would choose for them . . . because that's what an adult would do.

I'm beginning to wonder whether America simply has a vast population stuck in their teenage stage. They've never had to grow up . . . because they've never had to . . . someone has always kept them "safe", as they've demanded. Well . . . .
 

TommyCracker

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We are literally never going to be free from you guys are we.
Buckle up, CNN (yes I know, fake news) came out with the portfolio of unvaxxed and white republicans make up 37% of the unvaxxed.

18% Hispanic
14% Black
11% White Independent
10% White Democrat
10% Other

30 effing 7 percent. As we assumed.

Mainly because of right wing leadership and talking heads sowing doubt in our one window to get to real freedom (that we got to enjoy for a little bit).

But no, we're letting our window of stepping on the neck of the virus slip away because.....some of the dumbest, nonsensical conspiracy theories.

You want fear mongering. The vaccine contains a micro chip, no it magnetizes you, no it's just a way for the govt to control you, no all the numbers are fake, no....to whatever's next.

Watching DeSantis, Kennedy, McConnell, Hannity sharply pivot to pro vaccine over the past two weeks has got to make people go...oh shit, this must be bad.

Florida reported 17,000 cases yesterday and had almost 100,000 in a week.

You mentioned 'where are the deaths!!?'. Yeah death rates come about 4 to 6 weeks later so we'll see how they are at the end of August, right when school is starting.

Hopefully with the vax and the better treatment discoveries they won't be insane like last winter.

So yeah, I'd throw your comment back at the far right. You've fought us at every step from first recognizing it to masking to lockdowns and now to the vax.

We are literally never going to be free from you guys are we?
 

Sope Creek

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I assumed that was implied. It’s a balance. The parties differ on what weight to assign
Well that begs a couple of questions:

(1) How much weight should the party in power give to the party out of power?

(2) How much discretion should the party out of power give to the party in power? Seems to me that this is the stuff of discourse, and the party in power has to make a decision that the party out of power has to live with . . . after due consideration of the out of party's concerns.

Why can't we get this again? My take: W's insistence that a 51% majority is dispositive mandate.
 

mcmurtry66

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Well that begs a couple of questions:

(1) How much weight should the party in power give to the party out of power?

(2) How much discretion should the party out of power give to the party in power? Seems to me that this is the stuff of discourse, and the party in power has to make a decision that the party out of power has to live with . . . after due consideration of the out of party's concerns.

Why can't we get this again? My take: W's insistence that a 51% majority is dispositive mandate.
there is no single party in power. nationally biden has no authority to mandate anything. so you trickle down to the states where you can find a republican gov's AG suing a democrat county exec's order in contravention of a council vote/ruling. federalism is a blessing and a curse. this next year could get really ugly around the country
 
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jet812

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Buckle up, CNN (yes I know, fake news) came out with the portfolio of unvaxxed and white republicans make up 37% of the unvaxxed.

18% Hispanic
14% Black
11% White Independent
10% White Democrat
10% Other

30 effing 7 percent. As we assumed.

Mainly because of right wing leadership and talking heads sowing doubt in our one window to get to real freedom (that we got to enjoy for a little bit).

But no, we're letting our window of stepping on the neck of the virus slip away because.....some of the dumbest, nonsensical conspiracy theories.

You want fear mongering. The vaccine contains a micro chip, no it magnetizes you, no it's just a way for the govt to control you, no all the numbers are fake, no....to whatever's next.

Watching DeSantis, Kennedy, McConnell, Hannity sharply pivot to pro vaccine over the past two weeks has got to make people go...oh shit, this must be bad.

Florida reported 17,000 cases yesterday and had almost 100,000 in a week.

You mentioned 'where are the deaths!!?'. Yeah death rates come about 4 to 6 weeks later so we'll see how they are at the end of August, right when school is starting.

Hopefully with the vax and the better treatment discoveries they won't be insane like last winter.

So yeah, I'd throw your comment back at the far right. You've fought us at every step from first recognizing it to masking to lockdowns and now to the vax.

We are literally never going to be free from you guys are we?
I wonder how many of the 32% that make up the black & Hispanic demo are Dem’s? Throw in the confirmed 10% white Dems & wouldn’t it be closer than many are portraying it to be or am I misinterpreting the data? (Which is very possible)
 
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Sope Creek

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there is no single party in power. nationally biden has no authority to mandate anything. so you trickle down to the states where you can find a republican gov's AG suing a democrat county exec's order in contravention of a council vote/ruling. federalism is a blessing and a curse. this next year could get really ugly around the country
Hmmm . . . and here I thought the central theme of CoH university was the Unitary Executive . . . it certainly was during the W administration . . .

. . . oh well, must've been some change while I was working on my golf swing . . . .
 

outside shooter

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I am asking because I don’t know the answer. Have there been other drugs that have been allowed for use by millions of Americans before the FDA approved?
history of the EUA statutes. It arose out of the anthrax scare right after 9/11


After the events of September 11, 2001 and subsequent anthrax mail attacks, Congress enacted the Project Bioshield Act of 2004. The act called for billions of dollars in appropriations for purchasing vaccines in preparation for a bioterror attack, and for stockpiling of emergency countermeasures. To be able to act rapidly in an emergency, Congress allowed FDA to authorize formally unapproved products for emergency use against a threat to public health and safety (subject to a declaration of emergency by HHS). The record indicates that Congress was focused on the threat of bioterror specifically, not on preparing for a naturally-occurring pandemic.

FDA’s newfound EUA authority would be used relatively sparingly for the first 16 years following its enactment. During that time, its most extensive use was in combating the H1N1 swine flu pandemic of 2009 by authorizing medical equipment and existing influenza drugs. Health policy experts would look back on the use of EUA against H1N1 as an overall success. It would also be used (pursuant to an amendment allowing for preemptive EUAs) to authorize occasional countermeasures in anticipation of MERS, Ebola, Zika, and other epidemics, none of which ultimately materialized in the United States.

---
so basically, no previous situation resulted in millions of doses being used, but approvals were made in anticipation of such a need.
 

mushroomgod_1

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As an aside, in my experience human beings go through 3 general stages of maturation. The first stage is as a child, the person does what they're told to do by their parents.

The second stage is as a teenager, and they do the opposite of what they're told to do by their parents, even if what their parents tell them to do is good for them and what they elect to do is harmful. "You're not the boss of me" sums up this stage perfectly. But the weird thing is that the parents are still providing the standard for the teenager's decision-making.

The third stage is when the person reaches adulthood, and they independently do what they rationally determine is good for them . . . even if it's what their parents told them to do. Typically what they choose to do is what their parents would choose for them . . . because that's what an adult would do.

I'm beginning to wonder whether America simply has a vast population stuck in their teenage stage. They've never had to grow up . . . because they've never had to . . . someone has always kept them "safe", as they've demanded. Well . . . .

Well.....that's a pretty conservative take on things.......but I know you don't mean it when it comes to anyone other than whites who voted for Trump......I don't see you directing any of your venom toward the large % of AAs who haven't been vaccinated.....Do you have lower expectations for them?
 
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mushroomgod_1

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there is no single party in power. nationally biden has no authority to mandate anything. so you trickle down to the states where you can find a republican gov's AG suing a democrat county exec's order in contravention of a council vote/ruling. federalism is a blessing and a curse. this next year could get really ugly around the country

Much, much more of a blessing than a curse. The only device that stands between us and tyranny.

Now....rugged individualism as an American trait....more interesting debate.
 
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Cortez88

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Much, much more of a blessing than a curse. The only device that stands between us and tyranny.

Now....rugged individualism as an American trait....more interesting debate.
The Freakanomics podcast recently did a two parter about American uniqueness. It was really interesting. It also explains a lot about how we got to where we are right now.
 

mcmurtry66

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sorry if already posted. 74% were fully vaccinated. if these vaccines turn out not to be the panacea we had hoped (or at least as they relate to variants) i wonder where we are on treatment. i haven't heard much about innovations to treat covid

different source

 
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