UE in "serious" talks with Cheaney.
- Thread starter wi_hoosier
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Yep! Making sure he can have a proper contract and still be able to pay quality assistants.
One thing I noticed when he coached at IU, he walked up to several players to say something to them. I pointed out to my wife how focused the players were on what he was saying. He will be really good if he can do that as a head coach. I'll buy some season tickets if that will help!
Calbert had his phone interview and will be in town Monday for a second interview. It is his job if he agrees with the AD on scheduling. Look for the next coach to schedule more power 5 road games and upgrade the home schedule. Walter McCarty and Valpo assistant David Ragland remain in the top 3. .
They will have to play next season with maybe 2 returning players. Eight players have been granted releases to look for other teams. Dru Smith has initially been denied including D2 USI to possibly join his former Reitz High School team mates. He will appeal and eventually get permission for possibly all except USI. I suggest whoever is hired make a trip to Hutchinson Kansas for the NJCAA Tournament and be back for the IHSAA Championship games. Imagine the buzz a Coach Cheaney will create in Indy.
They will have to play next season with maybe 2 returning players. Eight players have been granted releases to look for other teams. Dru Smith has initially been denied including D2 USI to possibly join his former Reitz High School team mates. He will appeal and eventually get permission for possibly all except USI. I suggest whoever is hired make a trip to Hutchinson Kansas for the NJCAA Tournament and be back for the IHSAA Championship games. Imagine the buzz a Coach Cheaney will create in Indy.
Who knows? But I’d guess yes.
1) He was already putting that into motion before Marty was let go.
2) Unlike the others, he has a genuine chance to end up playing significant minutes for a high profile team...and I’m sure he’s thinking about a professional career (though I doubt he ever ends up in the big show).
3) UE’s graduate course offerings are pretty slim. That said, if it’s entirely about basketball (and it probably is), this might not matter much.
I would agree with all three points. He may have more reason to transfer as this next season is going to be a rebuilding year of massive proportions if everyone leaves.
The details on Marty's firing that have been getting shared the most indicate there was friction in the athletic department that led to the firing. Winning would have cured that, but the players seemed to have reacted quickly and in unison. Players could still decide to stay. Probably smart to get the release and then decide if staying with the new coach is best for them
On a side note, as a matter of discussion, could/should the NCAA try to do something about rosters being decimated by transfers in the wake of a coaching change?
It's obviously never been unusual for signed recruits to reopen their recruitment when the coaching staff that recruited them is cut loose. Nor has it been unusual for a player or two to transfer.
But here's UE faced with the prospect of as many as 8 players flying the coop. Pitt is facing a similar exodus after firing Kevin Stallings.
I guess the NCAA shouldn't take on the role of a jailer. If a student-athlete wants to go elsewhere, for whatever reason, they shouldn't be standing in the way. But, then, they have long required a year on the bench for anybody who hasn't already graduated (or who doesn't drop down in class). So there's already a precedent for some form of penalty. Maybe they can't access a scholarship until their year of ineligibility has passed?
It's obviously never been unusual for signed recruits to reopen their recruitment when the coaching staff that recruited them is cut loose. Nor has it been unusual for a player or two to transfer.
But here's UE faced with the prospect of as many as 8 players flying the coop. Pitt is facing a similar exodus after firing Kevin Stallings.
I guess the NCAA shouldn't take on the role of a jailer. If a student-athlete wants to go elsewhere, for whatever reason, they shouldn't be standing in the way. But, then, they have long required a year on the bench for anybody who hasn't already graduated (or who doesn't drop down in class). So there's already a precedent for some form of penalty. Maybe they can't access a scholarship until their year of ineligibility has passed?
I think sitting out a year is a good enough deterrent to players changing schools every year.
There are appeals to waive the one year on the shelf rule. Luke Recker did it to leave IU and be eligible immediately at Iowa. I heard a rumor that I don't automatically discount that JaQuan Lyle doesn't like his move to New Mexico. Since I heard that, I wondered if he wanted, could he qualify to transfer to IU, and now UE without penalty? He is the player the transfer rule was designed for.
Changing schools every year, yes.
But it does seem that the "mass exodus" in the wake of a coaching change is a relatively novel thing -- and something that is seemingly growing.
The players are almost certainly doing this out of loyalty to their coaches. I get that. But the commitment they made was to the school, not the coach. The scholarship dollars come from the school, not the coach.
And they're essentially punishing schools for making coaching changes: you fire this guy....we blow the program up for 5 years.
We didn't have a single player leave and we even retained the signed players. Maybe that wasn't a good thing for us, but that is another topic.
I know the results of the exodus can be devastating to the program, but I don't see the point in forcing a kid to stay in a situation they don't like or have any power to control. Yes, the school is important, but they spend a lot of time in the gym and around the staff. The school needs to weigh the risks of firing a coach. If the players feel the coach isn't performing, they quite likely will stay like our players did.
If it were my kid, I would want them to get the most out of the limited time they have to play college athletics.
I certainly agree they shouldn't be "forced." If any or all want to leave a program for that or any other situation, they should be able to leave.
But I do think that the cost of doing so might need to be hiked up a smidgen. If entire rosters are willing to pack their bags just because of a coaching change, then the deterrent to doing so probably isn't high enough.
They make commitments to the schools with the implicit understanding of who the coaches will be. Unfair/disingenuous to pretend that the latter condition has no effect on/relevance to the former.
And where do you get this notion of players 'punishing the school'? Just as likely to be abiding self-interest, if not more so.
Coaches get fired all the time. It doesn’t take a good coach 5 years to get good. Maybe a year. After that he has 2 recruiting classes plus what’s left over.
Unless you hire Tommy Basketball.
And that's fine -- I take it as a given that people generally act in what they perceive to be their own self-interest. I'm saying that the NCAA might want to consider changing the calculus of that self-interest. They're already making players sit a year -- why not require them to forfeit the scholarship for that year as well? That's just one idea off the top of my head (and, yes, I could see the problems inherent with that...I'm just spitballing).
The NCAA is, after all, an organization that consists of member schools. And I don't think it serves any of their member institutions' interests to have their mens basketball programs hollowed out when coaching changes occur.
You remind me of my wife, fp -- you summarily ignore the point I'm trying to make and focus on a specific throwaway thing I said ("5 years").
OK....4 years. 3 years. It's beside the point.
The main thing I'm getting at is that the NCAA probably shouldn't want a situation like the one that faced Crean when he was hired at IU (and seems likely to welcome new coaches from UE and Pitt) to become commonplace. This is, after all, a big money product they're managing.
I think they might want to up the incentive to stick around....by increasing the cost of bolting -- at least in the wake of a coaching change.
Truth to your last bit but also merit in maintaining/incentivizing accountability in the institutions as well, i.e., they shouldn't be immunized from their own actions and errors or agendas that are less than 'angelic'. As many if not more ways to do it wrong than right - maintaining some balance between institutional and personal self-interest is the goal. Not sure this is so broke that it needs fixing.
I would be surprised if everyone leaves. A program would have to tie up a scholarship without any benefit for a year and not all the players are worth it. Dru Smith and a couple of others would be the only players I would miss beyond Taylor.
The Tisdale kid at VU would be a great pick up for UE. He could play with the post player from VU that hasn't asked for his release. A couple of decent freshmen and another juco player and you have a team that could compete as well as IU's first team under Crean. With what they are losing anyway, they aren't going to be much worse off.
Maybe not yet. But I just get a sneaking suspicion that it’s a growing trend.
IU went through it (though that was a different situation, what with the drugs and all that) and now UE’s about to go through it, and I’ll have had a front row seat for both. So maybe it’s just that it’s hit so close to home twice.
But, anyway, something to keep an eye on.
Why would you punish the kids? You act as if they’re this vindictive group trying to screw their school.
In reality they’re going to look for a program and system that fits their game and style. And one they’re wanted at per the coach. The new coach often isn’t that person. These kids have to look out for their best interests.
If you want to disincentivize this then you should punish the coaches somehow if they leave before their contract is up. They’re the ones leaving the kids they recruited to go to a different school for more money. Not just more money to provide for the families, but extra millions of dollars.
Look, it’s an imperfect system. I understand why coaches leave and I certainly understand why some kids transfer if the new coach isn’t a fit. It’s up to the school to make a hire the players are excited about and willing to stay. IU didn’t do that with Crean. We did do that with Miller. If the school doesn’t make a good hire that’s on the school.
The kids, after Sampson, left because of the culture change. Most of them were forced off the team. I believe Bassett was the only one really given a choice to come back based on grades/failed drug tests/attitude. No coach who cared about actually having student athletes wouldn't have brought a lot of them back. Most of the team wouldn't have academically qualified without grades being changed. It just isn't even comperable, and I dislike those aspects of Sampson much more than the few extra phone calls. I'll give him credit for giving a lot of kids second chances. I can't judge him currently (other than noting Davis was playing for him). I don't even care to follow Houston....but he left this program in a ridiculously horrible state. Hiring Crean wasn't the reason everyone left...
Those kids had no problems getting into other schools and qualifying/passing classes. Is it possible you were sold an over exaggerated lie to explain away the failures of the athletic department at that time?
The academic situation then wasn't good but, had it been as bad as some people claimed, the entire academic counseling /support staff should've been shown the door (and they weren't).
Recker spent a year at Arizona between IU and Iowa. He requested a hardship exemption to be immediately eligible at Iowa after not playing for a year at Arizona. Why would Indiana want have anything to do with Lyle? Disruptive everywhere he has been. Perfect fit for Houston.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Good point. Except for being from there what in that job would attract Calbert?
The U of E job is attractive to the right person for the following reasons:
1. Pay - about $1/3 of a million;
2. U of E is a private school...and St Louis U is also private.
3. It is a head coaching job.
4. CC has no previous on-court college head coaching experience and this is a way to get it.
5. Recruiting is the biggest challenge and U of E is apparently stepping up to hire an assistant that has such skills & contacts & experience.
6. CC has U of E eye candy stigma being from Evansville Harrison and being a superstar at IU and NBA class act. (CC allegedly verbally committed to U of E then RMK stole him.) This will get more fans in seats and more donations raising CC's worth. He returned to Harrison just recently to an overwhelmingly positive experience.
7. CC's mother is in Evansville..i think i read this.
Check the Purple Aces fan site: http://www.purpleacesfans.com/viewforum.php?f=2
Sure, U of E basketball back in the 1960's was arguably more attractive than it is today. There are a lot more colleges out there now recruiting kids and spreading around the fans in seats. I remember U of E beating Jacksonville with Artie Gilmore. But, U of E might be just the thing for a guy like CC...if it fits him.
He also went by the nicknames...the A-Train and Artus...in Roberts Municipal Stadium in Evansville, during the game, I was hearing Artie...may be my faulty memory.
But you are correct, his name is Artis Gilmore.
It's a tough job. Talking about the glories of 40+ years ago is pointless in the present. Hey....UE once beat John Wooden's UCLA Bruins, too. And you know who cares about that today? Nobody.
This is why there were some people here who felt that UE should just hang on to Marty....because who else are they going to get who could do any better?
For me, it all comes back to UE having put themselves in a position where it's going to be tough to have much success. If they want to thrive in a conference like the MVC (even if it has taken a couple steps backward after the departures of Creighton and WSU), then they're going to have to spend the dollars to do that. But either they don't have those dollars or they're unwilling to spend them.
It's been nearly 20 years since UE was in either the NCAA or the NIT. That's not an accident -- and it's not necessarily because Steve Merfeld and Marty Simmons are bad coaches. Rather, I'd say it's because the program is caught in between.
If they want to be a low-dollar basketball program, then they might as well reposition themselves -- be it to D3 or simply a lower-level D1 conference. If, however, they want to be in a top ten conference, then they need to have budgets that reflect that.
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Uh...you know that Artis Gilmore went on to become a very successful professional player after his days at Jacksonville, right? He played in the ABA and NBA for roughly 17 years.
In other words, your exposure to him (and his name) probably should've been more than one college game in 1970.
That's almost like saying that you once saw this kid named Jerry Bird play against UE at Roberts Stadium back in the late 70s. Boy, could he light up the nets....wonder what happened to him?
BTW, a little trivia....that 1969-70 Jacksonville team ended up being the runner-up in the NCAA tournament (losing to UCLA). Their leading scorer, of course, was Artis Gilmore.
Their #3 and 4 scorers -- Vaughn Wedeking and Greg Nelson -- were both graduates of Evansville Harrison. Their #2 scorer -- Rex Morgan -- had transferred to Jacksonville from UE (by way of a JUCO). Morgan didn't get along with Arad McCutchan and had been caught tee-peeing McCutchan's house. McCutchan subsequently refused to release Morgan, forcing him to go to a JUCO before playing his final two years at Jacksonville.
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Gee thanks!Uh...you know that Artis Gilmore went on to become a very successful professional player after his days at Jacksonville, right? He played in the ABA and NBA for roughly 17 years.
In other words, your exposure to him (and his name) probably should've been more than one college game in 1970.
That's almost like saying that you once saw this kid named Jerry Bird play against UE at Roberts Stadium back in the late 70s. Boy, could he light up the nets....wonder what happened to him?
I had no knowledge of Artis Gilmore after that one game. Wow...really!?!
Who would have guessed that someone that had been beaten by the Aces, at home, would ever amount to anything?
Really appreciate your setting me straight. And it must be wonderful knowing that you are the only one that has such a wide open world view. dws
What would make one assume that one game back then is the only time that another has ever heard of a player like Gilmore? Anyone that follows basketball would know his great career...going to the ABA back then with his stature and fame was a huge deal for the ABA.
People are really missing the points of my post. Which is that if Calbert C. sees U of E as being attractive to him then why not go for it? It was a good enough gig for Crews, Simmons, and loads of great coaches way back when. Like Arad McCutchan....
And if people don't realize that things can change...like U of E investing more...and U of E going to a better league...maybe and maybe not...sure.
But go ahead and pick on my post about my enjoying U of E basketball or calling someone by an obscure nickname/moniker...and my being happy with a certain game way back when...
Why not listen with the intent to understand rather than listen with the intent to respond?
Wouldn’t it have been easier, shorter and / or more honest to just say you forgot / didn’t know his first name?
1) Take it easy, I was just ribbing you a bit for getting Gilmore's name wrong based on mishearing it eons ago. I meant no offense.
2) UE's men's basketball program was once one of the great "college division" programs in the country, no doubt about it. There's some terrific history there. But that history is of limited value to anybody but fans, alums, and others with a direct stake. To today's coaches and players, it's virtually meaningless. That is...it doesn't have much to do with contributing toward present-day success.
You just can't trade on the past (particularly the distant past). And that's something that IU and UE both need to firmly understand.
Most of Crews' success at UE came when they were in the Horizon/MCC conference. His last 8 years, after they'd moved to the MVC, they had one conference championship. And if you compare Crews' winning percentage in his 9 years in the MCC to his 8 years in the MVC, it was clear they'd traded a better conference for worse results (and declining attendance).
I did say that: "...may be my faulty memory."
Reading comprehension: -1 heh
But once again...your comment is not on the main points. Is it?
On your main points (and as someone who saw many games at Roberts Stadium), I think all of those “ifs” have to turn in a positive direction for CC to have a fighting chance if he gets that job. I still have family who are season ticket holders, but they speak much more fondly of the past than they do about the present or future. No idea if CC has the recruiting chips to make a difference and, regardless of any other attributes he may possess, it will have to start there. Seems like a tough sell in today’s environment, especially if UE is being challenged elsewhere. Understand the Ford Center is nice, but RS was a great place to see a game.
I was never clear of his hardship,
I don't want really want JaQuan at IU. A return to Evansville would be okay and more likely to qualify as a hardship since his family is here. UE could use his talent and either Calbert, Walter, or Ragland would be good influences on him. If he doesn't play for UE qnd one of these 3, he is probably better off staying in New Mexico.
It would be good for a lot of the youth to see any of these 3 men coaching at UE and active in the community. Ragland has paid his dues and has moved up the coaching ladder. In many ways, Ragland might be the best for the job, but wouldn't have the immediate impact Calbert and Walter would have. I don't know how any of the 3 would be as head coaches, but they would have support in the community.
Courier & Press now says McCarty the frontrunner for the Aces job:
https://www.courierpress.com/story/...evansville-basketball-coaching-job/442226002/
https://www.courierpress.com/story/...evansville-basketball-coaching-job/442226002/
Maybe some one else remembers better that I, but think it was related to his accident driving out to Arizona where his girl friend was seriously injured and ended up with disabilities. If I remember correctly, his request was he be allowed to transfer to Iowa because it would be closer to her. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Also, I think his father lived in Iowa at the time.
