Trust the market

[Marvin the Martian]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

 

[mcmurtry66]

the players deserve a cut.

i'm getting dragged in another thread for watching reality tv. and i do watch it in the sense that it's on in the background in the evenings. during the day at the office i usually have soccer on, or impossible builds, or some other design/architecture show. in the evening reality shows. gold rush. pawn stars. vpr. bigfoot. whatever. but i'm never working and always working and always have a tv on in the background.

what i don't have on anymore, save saturday afternoons, is college sports. it's been a spiral and this conference expansion, nil, transfers, paying players is even a bigger turnoff. the whole commercialization of it. i played d1 and my school now has everything tied to a corp. this week's Kia Sol player of the week is xxxxx. He mastered a perfect drive like riding in a Kia Sol. Oh F off. it's untoward.

college kids get paid. tuition and travel to see cool towns and campuses for free and room and board. and memories. oh the memories. my teammates and i have been on a chat group for 25 years. but let's also be honest. why do they "deserve a cut." bc the coaches and schools make money? so what. these players in fairness aren't very good. fewer than 2% make pro. so now we are treating good but not great athletes like pros? 18 year olds? no.

i would rather get rid of all college sports at the d1 and 2 levels and convert it to club and if football needs a minor league let them convert the xfl or something else. and the nba can expand the g league. in my sport the best players are already skipping college to pursue homegrown contracts. college soccer is largely unwatchable it's so bad now. are they going to get paid? shitty soccer players at some crummy school?

rant over marv but i really hate the direction of college sports. i'll continue to tune into whatever andy cohen is offering before i watch college kids get paid to play mediocre games

 

[mcmurtry66]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

oh and if schools start paying the players directly you think the uswnt was loud. wait until womens' softball bans togehter and says wtf. how come football players get so much money? revenue is the iu athletic department. we all wear indiana on our jerseys. we deserve equal pay -

IU ATHLETIC DIRECTOR,

Kindly permit this letter to serve as my notice of representation of 22 IU women softball players in connection with unequal pay within your department. Please forward this letter to your appropriate counsel.

Yours in anger,

BradStevens
JUSTICE WARRIOR

you've got union issues potentially, cbas, workers comp, discrimination, all the things that attend being an employee.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

oh and if schools start paying the players directly you think the uswnt was loud. wait until womens' softball bans togehter and says wtf. how come football players get so much money? revenue is the iu athletic department. we all wear indiana on our jerseys. we deserve equal pay -

IU ATHLETIC DIRECTOR,

Kindly permit this letter to serve as my notice of representation of 22 IU women softball players in connection with unequal pay within your department. Please forward this letter to your appropriate counsel and/or insurance carrier.

Yours in anger,

BradStevens

you've got union issues potentially, cbas, workers comp, discrimination, all the things that attend being an employee.

It isn't going to be a choice, the courts are about to order it. I am sure the courts will weigh in on whether Title IX requires equal pay. It would have to be Title IX as the WNBA and NBA aren't close to pay, so general law doesn't seem to require it.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Title IX requires equal pay.

i don't know that it's title ix that would apply anymore if they are employees. then maybe it's title vii eeoc right to sue letters and all that stuff. i don't know that stuff. i know i have zero interest as it's no longer student athletes. it's just minor league pro sports with a school sponsor like a car dealer on the jersey

 

[Marvin the Martian]

i'm getting dragged in another thread for watching reality tv. and i do watch it in the sense that it's on in the background in the evenings. during the day at the office i usually have soccer on, or impossible builds, or some other design/architecture show. in the evening reality shows. gold rush. pawn stars. vpr. bigfoot. whatever. but i'm never working and always working and always have a tv on in the background.

what i don't have on anymore, save saturday afternoons, is college sports. it's been a spiral and this conference expansion, nil, transfers, paying players is even a bigger turnoff. the whole commercialization of it. i played d1 and my school now has everything tied to a corp. this week's Kia Sol player of the week is xxxxx. He mastered a perfect drive like riding in a Kia Sol. Oh F off. it's untoward.

college kids get paid. tuition and travel to see cool towns and campuses for free and room and board. and memories. oh the memories. my teammates and i have been on a chat group for 25 years. but let's also be honest. why do they "deserve a cut." bc the coaches and schools make money? so what. these players in fairness aren't very good. fewer than 2% make pro. so now we are treating good but not great athletes like pros? 18 year olds? no.

i would rather get rid of all college sports at the d1 and 2 levels and convert it to club and if football needs a minor league let them convert the xfl or something else. and the nba can expand the g league. in my sport the best players are already skipping college to pursue homegrown contracts. college soccer is largely unwatchable it's so bad now. are they going to get paid? shitty soccer players at some crummy school?

rant over marv but i really hate the direction of college sports. i'll continue to tune into whatever andy cohen is offering before i watch college kids get paid to play mediocre games

I have argued we should go to the European club model and make college sports literally the best kids at a school go to a tryout, some professor is the coach, and college sports is just for the kids on campus. But it never gains traction.

But if we are going to have huge contracts, if the NCAA, the Big 10 administrators, the school administrators, and the coaches all get rich, we might as well include the players.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

While free markets have been a valued economic driver, that doesn't mean they are perfect in all circumstances. What you are describing is a scenario with a fixed field of participants and there are no rules or limits on spending (similar to baseball or soccer).

What I would like to know is - do you like how baseball typically fares, with teams in big markets always having an advantage over teams in smaller markets? There are great success stories (e.g., Royals in baseball, Leicester City in Soccer), but those are so celebrated because the deck is stacked against them with no limitations (salary cap, etc.).

Personally, I feel the product always suffered (baseball vs. parity in NFL or NBA) and we are seeing it in soccer as Man City, backed by dirty oil money, continues to perform at a high level in the EPL and Champions League. They've overpaid for any player they want and will continue to do so, much like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I have argued we should go to the European club model and make college sports literally the best kids at a school go to a tryout, some professor is the coach, and college sports is just for the kids on campus. But it never gains traction.

i would love this compared to the path we're on

 

[hoosboot]

i don't know that it's title ix that would apply anymore if they are employees. then maybe it's title vii eeoc right to sue letters and all that stuff. i don't know that stuff. i know i have zero interest as it's no longer student athletes. it's just minor league pro sports with a school sponsor like a car dealer on the jersey

Towards Marvin's original point, it seems like the market would handle that if enough people shared your perspective on it. It seems like that's not the case in a bunch of places though.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Towards Marvin's original point, it seems like the market would handle that if enough people shared your perspective on it. It seems like that's not the case in a bunch of places though.

agree completely. i will be in the minority with my take

 

[Marvin the Martian]

While free markets have been a valued economic driver, that doesn't mean they are perfect in all circumstances. What you are describing is a scenario with a fixed field of participants and there are no rules or limits on spending (similar to baseball or soccer).

What I would like to know is - do you like how baseball typically fares, with teams in big markets always having an advantage over teams in smaller markets? There are great success stories (e.g., Royals in baseball, Leicester City in Soccer), but those are so celebrated because the deck is stacked against them with no limitations (salary cap, etc.).

Personally, I feel the product always suffered (baseball vs. parity in NFL or NBA) and we are seeing it in soccer as Man City, backed by dirty oil money, continues to perform at a high level in the EPL and Champions League. They've overpaid for any player they want and will continue to do so, much like the Yankees, Dodgers, etc.

That is why I think there needs to be an employee arrangement and a salary cap. which frankly isn't that great in the NBA because they built in so many exceptions. But there hasn't been great parity in college sports. Put your money on one of 10 teams in basketball and maybe 5 in football and you have a serious chance of winning without ever looking at a roster.

Indiana struggles, basketball is newer for that but football is traditional. It is hard to get kids to come to a half empty Memorial Stadium over the teams with filled 100,000 seat stadiums.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

That is why I think there needs to be an employee arrangement and a salary cap. which frankly isn't that great in the NBA because they built in so many exceptions. But there hasn't been great parity in college sports. Put your money on one of 10 teams in basketball and maybe 5 in football and you have a serious chance of winning without ever looking at a roster.

Indiana struggles, basketball is newer for that but football is traditional. It is hard to get kids to come to a half empty Memorial Stadium over the teams with filled 100,000 seat stadiums.

It's part of the reason I am bearish on sports. I don't believe the popularity will stick and the $ will start to fall as more people are inclined to stick to watching games at home and/or watching/playing other things on screens.

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports.

This is the key right here. Some people think it monopolize talent to schools with the deepest pockets but I don't think so. Even Kentucky isn't going to pay 100K to their 6th man. And once schools drop some large contracts on players that flame out, they'll be more judicious in how they dole them out.

 

[Cortez88]

The biggest issue is that it is not a market. It’s several markets and some programs will simply create their own market. Sure Ball State can get a QB NIL money, but they won’t be in the same stratosphere as Alabama.

I think that the SEC and Big 10 will break away from other college football programs and just be their own “league”. Frankly, it’s probably inevitable and the best path forward.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

It’s crazy to think about. Is the ncaa even needed then? Transfer portals? Or do they now sign non competes lol. And if they are all going to get paid maybe youth sports isn’t a grift. It’s a good investment

 

[TDHoosier]

Saw today that Tony Perkins, a guard from Iowa, told the Hawkeye's his value is at $500k on the open market and they said they can't match or do this so he is stepping away from the Hawks.

This will happen more and more, eventually only the top 30 HS kids will be recruited to P5 teams the others will have to play down to prove their worth and then put themselves out on the open market. Sports has always been a rich mans game it just became more of that with NIL

 

[IU_Hickory]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

Hey, I've said coaches salaries are ridiculous as well so I'm consistent in thinking people in sports are way overpaid.

The biggest load of bull crap is pro sports where taxpayers subsidize the cost of the stadiums for billionaires who then in turn pay the millionaire players while charging the people who paid for their stadium high prices to come to the games.

That is about the only thing more looney than paying college coaches millions while teachers get paid normal amounts (or underpaid) and NIL funding players large amounts of cash while regular students have to take out loans to go to college.

Priorities though

 

[NPT]

That is why I think there needs to be an employee arrangement and a salary cap. which frankly isn't that great in the NBA because they built in so many exceptions. But there hasn't been great parity in college sports. Put your money on one of 10 teams in basketball and maybe 5 in football and you have a serious chance of winning without ever looking at a roster.

Indiana struggles, basketball is newer for that but football is traditional. It is hard to get kids to come to a half empty Memorial Stadium over the teams with filled 100,000 seat stadiums.

In baseball they have revenue sharing where teams that earn the most share with teams in the smaller markets. They also have a luxury tax if a team goes over a certain payroll

 

[UncleMark]

Saw today that Tony Perkins, a guard from Iowa, told the Hawkeye's his value is at $500k on the open market and they said they can't match or do this so he is stepping away from the Hawks.

This will happen more and more, eventually only the top 30 HS kids will be recruited to P5 teams the others will have to play down to prove their worth and then put themselves out on the open market. Sports has always been a rich mans game it just became more of that with NIL

Just like in the pros, the second contract is where the big money is.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Just like in the pros, the second contract is where the big money is.

and that's what it's tantamount to. no allegiance to a school. basically like following the colts or the pacers at that point but much lower quality. hard pass

 

[Ohio Guy]

I think the problem I see with all this is that NIL, the portal and all that ensues from here on out is slowly killing the golden goose. College sports has spent close to a century building affinity for college and university athletics and people really, really like watching teams with 'Indiana' or 'Notre Dame' or 'Ohio State' on their jerseys. And for better or worse, I think that connection has to be direct to the school. Look at the TBT - lots of teams made up of semi-well known alums from schools, but that tournament is a novelty at best. If they're just pro mercenary players, their audiences are going to start shrinking considerably.

I don't know how they thread the needle of giving the impression that these guys are still 'student athletes' but giving up that ghost is where it'll blow up in their face, in my opinion.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Saw today that Tony Perkins, a guard from Iowa, told the Hawkeye's his value is at $500k on the open market and they said they can't match or do this so he is stepping away from the Hawks.

This will happen more and more, eventually only the top 30 HS kids will be recruited to P5 teams the others will have to play down to prove their worth and then put themselves out on the open market. Sports has always been a rich mans game it just became more of that with NIL

Why would anyone cheer for this kid. He obviously doesn’t care about Iowa. He just wants to get paid. His right but as a fan forget it.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why would anyone cheer for this kid. He obviously doesn’t care about Iowa. He just wants to get paid. His right but as a fan forget it.

But we haven't cared much for players that wanted to stay and coaches told them to leave. Wasn't that Crean's thing, over recruit and decide who to get rid of?

Loyalty needs to be two way.

 

[IU_Hickory]

But we haven't cared much for players that wanted to stay and coaches told them to leave. Wasn't that Crean's thing, over recruit and decide who to get rid of?

Loyalty needs to be two way.

Crean got a lot of heat for over-recruiting and then booting players. The process got the term "Creaning" because of it.

Now that players get paid and can transfer whenever (something pro players can't even do), I don't care what coaches do in terms of booting players.

 

[OpenWheels]

NIL isn't 'the market' . The people who consume the product are the market. NIL is the new business model which is part of the product also in this case.

We will see how the market reacts.

People aren't complaining about 'the market', they are complaining about the product. Part of the product was enjoying seeing actual enrolled students playing sports and forming an identity with them and your favorite school.

 

[UncleMark]

People aren't complaining about 'the market', they are complaining about the product. Part of the product was enjoying seeing actual enrolled students playing sports and forming an identity with them and your favorite school.

Use to be every year you had to learn the names of a few freshmen and see if you could identify them on the bench.

Now you have to relearn damn near the entire roster. Old bastages like me don't have the bandwidth anymore. On the live chat I don't even try to refer to players by name anymore. I just use their numbers.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

NIL isn't 'the market' . The people who consume the product are the market. NIL is the new business model which is part of the product also in this case.

We will see how the market reacts.

People aren't complaining about 'the market', they are complaining about the product. Part of the product was enjoying seeing actual enrolled students playing sports and forming an identity with them and your favorite school.

Isn't this a "name on the front of the jersey" moment? Or "My team is on the floor"? The players haven't been traditional students in a very long time. Someone will choose to play for Indiana, heck look at pros where they are drafted. At least these players are volunteers.

 

[OpenWheels]

Isn't this a "name on the front of the jersey" moment? Or "My team is on the floor"? The players haven't been traditional students in a very long time. Someone will choose to play for Indiana, heck look at pros where they are drafted. At least these players are volunteers.

Sure, that's fine. And we'll see how the market reacts. To the overtly pro sports businesses, run by colleges.

So far, college sports numbers don't seem to be in decline.

 

[BradStevens]

I haven't been one to put blind faith in the markets, but whenever I have complained about CEO compensation I have been told the market is, if not perfect, very close to perfect. Trust the market has been the mantra.

Many of those people today seem not to trust the market. I see it all the time, NIL sucks. Isn't NIL just the market? If a point guard is worth $500,000, he's worth $500,000. Why do we suddenly say "OMG, we can't let the market decide". Why don't we want the market in college sports? It has been there for overpaid coaches and administrators. If the highest paid employees at any university weren't coaches, I'd agree that not having the market is good for college sports. But we pay college coaches like they invented 4 drugs to cure cancer (well more, the scientist who discovers such drugs will certainly make less than some football coaches).

So if the market works, why doesn't it work for college sports? I suspect it is one of a couple of reasons. First, "it isn't how we did it". That's a poor reason to continue something without evidence supporting why it works. Second, some combination of the kids being kids and/or Black. Before people get too angry, of the two I suspect far more are angry at an 18-year-old not "deserving" the money more than the race, but we are fooling ourselves if we don't think some people are angry that basketball and football players are statistically more likely to be Black than in the general population and will be making big money.

Once players get paid by schools, and that is very close to coming, I think we will see multi-year contracts as in pro sports. That should reduce the turnover we now see. But we know turnover happened before, largely when the coach wanted it. Recall Creaning? If coaches can push kids out, kids should have the right to leave. As with pro sports, colleges could negotiate a salary cap thus keeping smaller schools at least somewhat competitive (or as competitive as a team like the Reds).

I think eventually the market will work this out. if we are going to pay coaches and administrators commanding salaries, the players deserve a cut.

Has anyone made the argument markets work for every scenario? That would be foolish.

Sports needs some type of limitation for competitive balance. They also need to provide a reason for a fan to cheer for them and spend their time and money on that team. For college, the limitation is that we want the kids to be students of our school, or else, why cheer for them? Mercenaries who are getting paid just to come to IU and play don't really make me emotionally invested in the team, and I hate that I have lost that.

Regarding prices, markets work extremely well to balance and manage billions of preferences by individuals. But there are places markets would be abhorrent.

 

[BradStevens]

I have argued we should go to the European club model and make college sports literally the best kids at a school go to a tryout, some professor is the coach, and college sports is just for the kids on campus. But it never gains traction.

But if we are going to have huge contracts, if the NCAA, the Big 10 administrators, the school administrators, and the coaches all get rich, we might as well include the players.

It should be taxed. Plain and simple.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Has anyone made the argument markets work for every scenario? That would be foolish.

Sports needs some type of limitation for competitive balance. They also need to provide a reason for a fan to cheer for them and spend their time and money on that team. For college, the limitation is that we want the kids to be students of our school, or else, why cheer for them? Mercenaries who are getting paid just to come to IU and play don't really make me emotionally invested in the team, and I hate that I have lost that.

Regarding prices, markets work extremely well to balance and manage billions of preferences by individuals. But there are places markets would be abhorrent.

Do you support pro teams?

Make the case that thearket is perfect for coaches, and CEO's, but totally wrong for college athletes. Heck, we know teams with massive weight rooms, incredible athlete housing, top of the line facilities, attract better players. Doesn't that damage competitiveness. The IU weight room is great to me, but because it isn't football only it is a competitive disadvantage (maybe football has its own room now)

Kansas got caught paying players, nothing has happened and their coach will be paid no matter what the NCAA does. Tennessee is suing the NCAA to stop it from penalizing Tennessee, maybe even passed a law making it illegal to punish the university (not sure if it passed). UNC had ghost classes.

Who complained when Crean ran players off? Seriously, who called or wrote to complain, did anyone? If we aren't mad when that happens, why are we mad when the players do what is in their personal best interest?

 

[snarlcakes]

Has anyone made the argument markets work for every scenario? That would be foolish.

I’ll say it then. Markets work for every scenario.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I’ll say it then. Markets work for every scenario.

I think he’s right that there are exceptions. College sports being one. Mls’ limitations at the moment are really holding the league back as the opposite

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Make the case that thearket is perfect for coaches, and CEO's

This is the real root of the problem. Pass a law that coaches and athletic administrators can never earn higher salaries than professors, and you'll see things start to re-amateurize very quickly. Throw in another law banning nationally televised collegiate sports events (maybe with exceptions for championships), and you're there.

The problem isn't that we are giving players money. The problem is that we found a way to come up with all that money in the first place. Once we started profiting off these kids, we were always going to have to start paying them eventually.

 

[snarlcakes]

I think he’s right that there are exceptions. College sports being one. Mls’ limitations at the moment are really holding the league back as the opposite

Right about what? What’s the objective? It seems people have a preconceived belief of what college sports should be to them. That’s fine, but it’s also fine if we have college sports with NIL. Players have been getting paid forever now. NIL just allows players to be paid closer to their market value, instead of universities or other entities collecting revenues that should have went to the players.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Right about what? What’s the objective? It seems people have a preconceived belief of what college sports should be to them. That’s fine, but it’s also fine if we have college sports with NIL. Players have been getting paid forever now. NIL just allows players to be paid closer to their market value, instead of universities or other entities collecting revenues that should have went to the players.

It’s apples to oranges tho. The mission of universities, amateurism, student athletes etc is polar to pro sports

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

It’s apples to oranges tho. The mission of universities, amateurism, student athletes etc is polar to pro sports

I'm pretty sure the mission of (major) college sports and pro sports is same: to make money.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm pretty sure the mission of (major) college sports and pro sports is same: to make money.

Yeah. I don’t know why I find all this so distasteful but I do. Brad’s post above captures some of it

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yeah. I don’t know why I find all this so distasteful but I do. Brad’s post above captures some of it

It's very distasteful. I don't enjoy college sports at all, anymore. But the kids demanding their share isn't what broke it. A bunch of old men who used those kids' popularity to make themselves rich broke it. The kids just wised up near the end and decided to get their piece of the pie before it collapsed.

 

[BradStevens]

Do you support pro teams?

Make the case that thearket is perfect for coaches, and CEO's, but totally wrong for college athletes. Heck, we know teams with massive weight rooms, incredible athlete housing, top of the line facilities, attract better players. Doesn't that damage competitiveness. The IU weight room is great to me, but because it isn't football only it is a competitive disadvantage (maybe football has its own room now)

Kansas got caught paying players, nothing has happened and their coach will be paid no matter what the NCAA does. Tennessee is suing the NCAA to stop it from penalizing Tennessee, maybe even passed a law making it illegal to punish the university (not sure if it passed). UNC had ghost classes.

Who complained when Crean ran players off? Seriously, who called or wrote to complain, did anyone? If we aren't mad when that happens, why are we mad when the players do what is in their personal best interest?

I don’t really support pro teams any more, no.

I was mad about Kansas and NC and Crean running off players. So what was I supposed to do about it?

Re the market , you’re not talking to someone who believes that markets are perfect or shouldn’t be tweaked.