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Trump's brown-shirted menace

It doesn't matter what twenty02 calls them. What matters is an honest, dispassionate description of what they are. A heckler at a comedy show is attempting to disrupt the comedy show. The rest of the audience paid good money to hear the show and the heckler is wasting their time and money. Calling the heckler a protester is a red herring. One can call a bank robber a protester too -- he's protesting that the bank has money he wants. A heckler is a heckler because he disrupts the show. A bank robber robs the bank. A disrupter disrupts. A protester protests. Each action is different and looks different, manifests itself differently.

A protester doesn't disrupt. A protester stands outside of the scene he's protesting and communicates his displeasure with that scene, whatever it is.

Calling the disrupters at Trump rallies protesters is disingenuous and a red herring. Their intent is to disrupt. IF their intent was to merely proteest while allowing the rally to continue, they'd be outside. No, their intent is to disrupt and interfere with the rally. In Chicago, the mass disruption was intended to entirely prevent the rally and they succeeded.

Be honest and call a spade a spade. Or be dishonest and call a spade something else.
The people attempting to disrupt rallies and public appearances of candidates intend to prevent them from continuing - see Move On thugs in Chicago - they're purpose is to prevent the lawful exercise of peoples' 1st amendment rights. Those doing that are almost exclusively leftist which means Democrat. No one in the Democrat Party has a single word of condemnation for their own people attempting to block the free exercise of Constitutional rights. Its typically Democrat and has become a regular course of action. If leftists don't like what you say, they attempt to prevent your saying it or they lay on heavy personal attacks to destroy what the person would have to say - they do it right here on this board, too. Its no coincidence that Democrats stifle and attack and others do not.
 
The people attempting to disrupt rallies and public appearances of candidates intend to prevent them from continuing - see Move On thugs in Chicago - they're purpose is to prevent the lawful exercise of peoples' 1st amendment rights. Those doing that are almost exclusively leftist which means Democrat. No one in the Democrat Party has a single word of condemnation for their own people attempting to block the free exercise of Constitutional rights. Its typically Democrat and has become a regular course of action. If leftists don't like what you say, they attempt to prevent your saying it or they lay on heavy personal attacks to destroy what the person would have to say - they do it right here on this board, too. Its no coincidence that Democrats stifle and attack and others do not.
Shorter Ladoga: Derp
 
The people attempting to disrupt rallies and public appearances of candidates intend to prevent them from continuing - see Move On thugs in Chicago - they're purpose is to prevent the lawful exercise of peoples' 1st amendment rights. Those doing that are almost exclusively leftist which means Democrat. No one in the Democrat Party has a single word of condemnation for their own people attempting to block the free exercise of Constitutional rights. Its typically Democrat and has become a regular course of action. If leftists don't like what you say, they attempt to prevent your saying it or they lay on heavy personal attacks to destroy what the person would have to say - they do it right here on this board, too. Its no coincidence that Democrats stifle and attack and others do not.
LOL.
 
You guys are talking past each other. I think Goat is keying on the word "professionals" and you're taking liberties with that word. Is MoveOn professional? Yes. Are students (as you've pointed out in your last link) professional protestors? I doubt it.
It's not just a word. It's the whole concept, posited in several threads now, that the protesters aren't real, but are actually just paid thugs. And of course, it's the absurdity of using the argument to rail against those evil folks at MoveOn.org. Because that's what liberals do. Twenty's post at the top of the previous page didn't just accuse them of being "professional agitators." It also reminded us that the far left is made up only of losers and fascists (because why should this nonsense even be required to make sense?). I'm genuinely shocked that Jesse Jackson hasn't come up yet.

And then I read that steaming turd Ladoga just dropped on the thread. It's pretty clear that most conservative posters imagine liberals as caricatures. You know why? Because they can only think in cartoon. We should no longer be surprised they are about to nominate one.
 
On one hand we have protesters disrupting Trump's rallies, just as BLM protesters disrupted rallies for Democratic candidates. This is rude, but commonplace, and those now excoriating the Trump protesters had little trouble holding their tongues before. On the other hand we have Trump repeatedly inciting his followers to to violence against the protesters. For emphasis: the likely Republican presidential candidate has repeatedly called for lawless violence at his rallies. This is unprecedented. It requires an exceptional shallowness of thought to equate these two things.

Having said so, I agree with Charles Pierce's advice to the protesters:

Stop being played for such suckers. Stop enlisting yourself in [Trump's] bloody vaudeville. Stop giving him stuff to lie about at all the rallies that actually do end up happening. Stop making yourselves part of the show, because it's not working. It doesn't affect him at all. In fact, his campaign gains strength from it, like some science-fiction monster that absorbs the energy of whatever attacks it and then uses it to destroy. It doesn't gain you any allies; as should be clear by most of the meeping responses from the elite political press, the best it can get you is lectures about how Both Sides in our politics should settle down and let cooler heads ponder impotently about How We Got To This Point. That discussion never quite comes around to the simple, obvious fact that the Republican Party ate the monkeybrains 30 years ago and that the prion disease it thereby acquired is now cascading through its higher functions.

. . . [W]hat happened in Chicago over the weekend was tactically stupid. Yes, the rally was "shut down." Hurrah. Yes, it prompted an orgy of thumb-sucking and chin-stroking in which some people, like kindly Doc Maddow, actually pointed out the obvious truth that a madman now has more delegates to the Republican National Convention than does anyone else. And, yes, it scared the piss out of the big bag of feathers that is Marco Rubio, but he stopped quaking long enough to blame the president for "dividing Americans," which is plainly idiotic. And let's all stipulate that chanting for Bernie Sanders while you're shutting down a Trump rally is just about as stupid a political move as there is.

. . . My suggestion? Create a wave of non-violent protest outside the arenas. Close the streets. Fill the jails, if you must. Force the media coverage, which shouldn't be all that hard at this point. But stay out of the buildings because you can do no good in there. It gives aid and comfort to the forces you are trying to defeat, and it gives a timorous elite political press an excuse to look the other way, and it gives the other candidates from a party that long ago descended into madness one more hallucination to justify why it's eating bugs in public.​

They aren't protestors

They are bullies. As I have pointed out before, the are likely committing at lest 2 or 3 misdemeanors. Maybe a felony depending on how much they resist being escorted away by the cops. Their sole purpose is to cause what they caused--disorder and liberal overreactions. The thing is, this is part of Trumps marketing strategy and the libs don't get it. This kind of disorder you ignorantly call "protest" is what he is running against
 
On one hand we have protesters disrupting Trump's rallies, just as BLM protesters disrupted rallies for Democratic candidates. This is rude, but commonplace, and those now excoriating the Trump protesters had little trouble holding their tongues before. On the other hand we have Trump repeatedly inciting his followers to to violence against the protesters. For emphasis: the likely Republican presidential candidate has repeatedly called for lawless violence at his rallies. This is unprecedented. It requires an exceptional shallowness of thought to equate these two things.

Having said so, I agree with Charles Pierce's advice to the protesters:

Stop being played for such suckers. Stop enlisting yourself in [Trump's] bloody vaudeville. Stop giving him stuff to lie about at all the rallies that actually do end up happening. Stop making yourselves part of the show, because it's not working. It doesn't affect him at all. In fact, his campaign gains strength from it, like some science-fiction monster that absorbs the energy of whatever attacks it and then uses it to destroy. It doesn't gain you any allies; as should be clear by most of the meeping responses from the elite political press, the best it can get you is lectures about how Both Sides in our politics should settle down and let cooler heads ponder impotently about How We Got To This Point. That discussion never quite comes around to the simple, obvious fact that the Republican Party ate the monkeybrains 30 years ago and that the prion disease it thereby acquired is now cascading through its higher functions.

. . . [W]hat happened in Chicago over the weekend was tactically stupid. Yes, the rally was "shut down." Hurrah. Yes, it prompted an orgy of thumb-sucking and chin-stroking in which some people, like kindly Doc Maddow, actually pointed out the obvious truth that a madman now has more delegates to the Republican National Convention than does anyone else. And, yes, it scared the piss out of the big bag of feathers that is Marco Rubio, but he stopped quaking long enough to blame the president for "dividing Americans," which is plainly idiotic. And let's all stipulate that chanting for Bernie Sanders while you're shutting down a Trump rally is just about as stupid a political move as there is.

. . . My suggestion? Create a wave of non-violent protest outside the arenas. Close the streets. Fill the jails, if you must. Force the media coverage, which shouldn't be all that hard at this point. But stay out of the buildings because you can do no good in there. It gives aid and comfort to the forces you are trying to defeat, and it gives a timorous elite political press an excuse to look the other way, and it gives the other candidates from a party that long ago descended into madness one more hallucination to justify why it's eating bugs in public.​
In short, there are unlawful actions by disrupters, including at least two cases of violence, one involving a disrupter throwing punches at a rally and the other an injured police officer in Chicago,

and there are Trump's Incendiary words, along with one action involving one punch by a Trump supporter.

One can make an argument that unlawful actions are...unlawful. One can make an argument that Trump shouldn't allow himself to be provoked by disrupters, keep the high road, and stay away from incendiary language.

Then there is the red herring of describing the two wrongs as a false equivalence so as to de-humanize Trump.
 
In short, there are unlawful actions by disrupters, including at least two cases of violence, one involving a disrupter throwing punches at a rally and the other an injured police officer in Chicago,

and there are Trump's Incendiary words, along with one action involving one punch by a Trump supporter.

One can make an argument that unlawful actions are...unlawful. One can make an argument that Trump shouldn't allow himself to be provoked by disrupters, keep the high road, and stay away from incendiary language.

Then there is the red herring of describing the two wrongs as a false equivalence so as to de-humanize Trump.
As I said, an exceptional shallowness of thought.
 
In short, there are unlawful actions by disrupters, including at least two cases of violence, one involving a disrupter throwing punches at a rally and the other an injured police officer in Chicago,

and there are Trump's Incendiary words, along with one action involving one punch by a Trump supporter.

One can make an argument that unlawful actions are...unlawful. One can make an argument that Trump shouldn't allow himself to be provoked by disrupters, keep the high road, and stay away from incendiary language.

Then there is the red herring of describing the two wrongs as a false equivalence so as to de-humanize Trump.

I think it is even money

That the Trump campaign organized the "protest". ;)
 
It's not just a word. It's the whole concept, posited in several threads now, that the protesters aren't real, but are actually just paid thugs. And of course, it's the absurdity of using the argument to rail against those evil folks at MoveOn.org. Because that's what liberals do. Twenty's post at the top of the previous page didn't just accuse them of being "professional agitators." It also reminded us that the far left is made up only of losers and fascists (because why should this nonsense even be required to make sense?). I'm genuinely shocked that Jesse Jackson hasn't come up yet.

And then I read that steaming turd Ladoga just dropped on the thread. It's pretty clear that most conservative posters imagine liberals as caricatures. You know why? Because they can only think in cartoon. We should no longer be surprised they are about to nominate one.

Somebody organized the disorder

The many common professionally printed anti-Trump signs is the first clue.
 
No wonder you're for an increase in the minimum wage. I hope you don't work on commission.
Now, how did you come up with the assertion that I am for an increase in the minimum wage? I have never thought of it and especially never said it. You must be thinking, But then, I doubt that "thinking" is your forte.
 
Now, how did you come up with the assertion that I am for an increase in the minimum wage? I have never thought of it and especially never said it. You must be thinking, But then, I doubt that "thinking" is your forte.
Because all liberals are cartoons who believe the exact same things. Conservative posters only need to read enough of your posts to know you are left of them. Any further reading would just be a waste of their precious time, so they just fill in the blanks with things they already know we all believe.
 
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Because all liberals are cartoons who believe the exact same things. Conservative posters only need to read enough of your posts to know you are left of them. Any further reading would just be a waste of their precious time, so they just fill in the blanks with things they already know we all believe.

I know you're frustrated, but you've gotta take a breath and revert back to the Goat that we know and admire. I think you could've done a better job of explaining to Twenty which particular phrasing was setting you off...because you were right. The use of "professional" is inflammatory and very likely incorrect.

This election is bringing out the worst in people, is making turds float to the surface, and we keep stepping in it. Just watch your step.
 
I know you're frustrated, but you've gotta take a breath and revert back to the Goat that we know and admire. I think you could've done a better job of explaining to Twenty which particular phrasing was setting you off...because you were right. The use of "professional" is inflammatory and very likely incorrect.

This election is bringing out the worst in people, is making turds float to the surface, and we keep stepping in it. Just watch your step.
Were you in the other threads? This is our third attempt at a Trump rally violence thread. The first one fell apart immediately. The second one made it a full page before turning to crap. We're showing improvement.

But in all three cases, people repeated the claim that, I think ultimately goes back to Rubio, that these people were "paid" to be there. Add in all this nonsense about how every single leftist is X and Y and Z, and it's not the election that gets frustrating. It's the posters.
 
I used the phrase professional provacateurs in a previous thread. You asked for clarification, but later locked the thread, so I had no opportunity to respond. I don't know if some of these people are paid or not, but that's not necessarily why I used the term professional. I used it more or less to describe a group of people that routinely engage in this type of stuff. We know from press coverage essentially who was involved and what their aims were. MoveOn, Undocumented, BLM, certain activists. In that sense, it's the usual suspects that are involved in these things, like Occupy and the Emmanuel protests. There is obviously some organization and financial support, although some of the participants are undoubtedly regular folks.

I don't have any issues with protesting, but I don't think that's an accurate description of what some of these people are doing when they're shutting down or disrupting rallies, throwing objects at presidential candidates, rushing the stage, taking over microphones, grabbing legs, etc. I think Obama agrees it's counterproductive based on his comments today. Beyond that, I say protest away, even though I believe for the most part these people could do more good and actually engender goodwill if they channeled their energy and resources into serving their communities.
 
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